  Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 59 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 69.221.80.238 |
Who thinks name recognition played a part in this? How pathetic. I wonder if he would have gotten the same number of votes if his name was still Joel Loving? http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060809/NEW S99/608090443 | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 167 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
Winning by name recognition is nothing new in politics...see President of the United States | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2591 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.72.98 |
Especially in a crowded field, name recognition did play a big part. So I take it now he's a shoe-in for November against a republican challenger? Well I guess Detroit will see if he's got any of his fathers genes.... I guess it's no different that with a Hoffa or a Kennedy... names sometimes matter. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1216 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Name recognition wasn't enough to shoo in Maureen... (Message edited by LivernoisYard on August 09, 2006) | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1116 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 68.60.45.70 |
Balls, you can's grow them | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 91 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 63.85.13.248 |
Either ya got em or ya don't | ||
Ron Member Username: Ron Post Number: 258 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 66.174.79.228 |
Name recognition certainly played a large part in this race. However, the other factor was the absolute adoration many older voters still feel for our former Mayor. That is what made the difference between Mr. Young's name recognition and Ms. Stapleton's. (Even though the Young name is far more recognizable in Detroit that Stapleton). At any rate, now the pressure is on Mr. Young to produce. But I'm sure his handlers will have him sponsoring many bills that at least give the impression of a competent legislator. As I noted in the "Election Day" thread, my foray into politics ended dismally, not to too much surprise, though. I spent a large amount of time in Senior homes in the district, and they were not too impressed with my platform of attracting young educated, middle-class residents to our city. I suppose it is because there are still many painful memories of the elimination of Black Bottom. I repeatedly heard, for instance, "they want to move us out, and move in the people with money." I tried to argue that that was not the motivation, but rather that it would be far better for everyone if you actually had a house across the street from you, rather than an empty lot. It probably did not help that I was a white man standing in front of them telling them this. But hey, it is what it is. I had a good time doing the politics thing (mostly taking sh** in the bar, and on DYes), and understand that it probably is not for me. Now......back to being an attorney. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10452 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.228 |
People came up to him crying? Um, this is a kid whom the REAL Coleman A Young basically was no part of his life, aside from sending money. The kid grew up in California under a different name. He "recently" changed his name...like a couple of years ago when he realized it was to his benefit. Then, moves from California to a city that he had no ties to, aside from the connection his NEW name had. I'm disappointed, but not at all shocked that he got the votes he got. | ||
Ron Member Username: Ron Post Number: 260 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 66.174.79.228 |
Sorry, I had a typo in my earlier post: I meant to say "TALKING sh**," not "taking sh**." Not many people hazed me about running. | ||
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72 Post Number: 65 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 66.184.3.44 |
Good Luck Ron, my father teaches at U of D Accadamy and says the faculty there is proud of the alums who continuesly run for office. Keep on being a "Man unto Others". | ||
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72 Post Number: 66 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 66.184.3.44 |
Sorry, typo I mean a "Man for Others". | ||
Naturalsister Member Username: Naturalsister Post Number: 780 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.215.244.18 |
No one really truly knows how close or distant the relationship between him and his father except those two. So not fair to say that he has no ties to Detroit. I know his aunt, who was born/bred/still lives in Detroit, as well as 2 other aunts and several cousins who are Detroiters. Joel/Coleman Jr. knows his Detroit family very well and spent a lot of time here - his birthplace. Give the kid a chance, Coleman A. Young was born in Tuscaloosa, AL and became synonymous with Detroit - probably more so than any other Detroit polititian later - naturalsister | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 431 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.41.145.5 |
"Who thinks name recognition played a part in this?" I can't imagine there is anyone who doesn't think that his name played a part in his victory, if not a huge part. Joel Loving just doesn't have the same ring to it. I was surprised to learn that he's only 23. Maybe I've just seen bad pictures of him, but he looks like he's old enough to have 23 year old son. | ||
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 118 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 68.251.38.235 |
So, what exactly are his qualifications? Education, background other than his name ect……..does he have any new ideas, or is he merely a clone of his father. Does he have a website? | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 558 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 4.229.60.187 |
I posted this on the Election Day thread, and I thought it fit here too: Detroiters are sabotaging their city when they send a second and third rate legislative delegation to Lansing. It is a very serious problem. George Cushingberry with his constant legal troubles is another wasted seat in the Detroit delegation. It's full contact sport in Lansing. Detroit can't afford to waste spots on its team with inexperience and incompetence. | ||
Themax Member Username: Themax Post Number: 200 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 69.246.123.118 |
Let's hear it for term limits. If Jr. is smart, he'll just do what he's told by other legislators with a whole two years of experience. | ||
Mani Member Username: Mani Post Number: 76 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 68.60.182.26 |
What is so pathetic about the name recognition is he had to prove that Coleman was his dad. Coleman did not even own up to his own flesh and blood. Bad blood already, ah... just what Detroit needs! | ||
Morena Member Username: Morena Post Number: 467 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 216.45.2.138 |
I bet Jr. does a fine job of representing Detroit in Lansing and helping to restore some credibility that the Detroit delegation desperately needs. | ||
Ed_golick Member Username: Ed_golick Post Number: 380 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.55.51 |
How much??? | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 559 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 4.229.60.187 |
To get some sense of the value of name recognition, by the end of July, Mr. Young had raised less than $6,000 in individual contributions. (His mother contributed an additional $13,000 to the campaign.) Not only did Mr. Young win, but he won in a district that had the strongest field of candidates of any of the Detroit districts. In other words, the name is priceless. Ms. Calvert (Mom) probably could have kept her checkbook in her purse and Mr. Young still would have won. I don't mean any disrespect toward Mr. Young, but my cynicism button really got pushed with this one. Actually, the saddest part of this whole problem is that I'm certain that despite his age and inexperience, Mr. Young will immediately become a better legislator than Messrs. Lemmons IV, Leland and Cushingberry. | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 479 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 12.160.81.194 |
I'm going to legally change my name to the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther Coleman A Young King XIII and run for office in Detroit. What do you think my chances are? | ||
Mani Member Username: Mani Post Number: 78 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 68.60.182.26 |
I think what you are saying might be jibberish. Are you really going to do what you are saying you are going to do? What is your point? I grew up in the city when Coleman Young was in office and think he was a disgrace to the city (despite the union workers). He made problems worse instead of better for the people. If you are referring to Martin Luther King, he was/is a great voice and symbol for the hardship of the black people in america, struggling through race issues and should not be made fun of or used in the context is which you have done so. Perhaps you are ignorant. He was intelligent and really stood for what he believed. Coleman young can not by any means be compared to Martin Luther King. Coleman Young was a crook. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 624 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 69.136.147.97 |
i think warriorfan was being sarcastic | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 517 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.246.29.185 |
Geez talk about not being able to take a joke. | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 60 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 68.79.98.205 |
"I am not a crook" Oh, wait. Wrong politician. | ||
Mani Member Username: Mani Post Number: 79 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 68.60.182.26 |
I do not think it is wise to make jokes like that. It is rude and insensitive to others. It is immature and not constructive. You are probably white and have no clue about race issues and politics. That is why you wrote what you did without thinking about the consequences of your words. And for those who respond in defense of such ignorance should also think twice. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 627 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 69.136.147.97 |
Im sticking up for Warriorfan, there was no race involved, it was obviously a joke and should be treated like one. | ||
Sharmaal Member Username: Sharmaal Post Number: 888 Registered: 09-2004 Posted From: 68.60.139.244 |
"Bad blood already, ah... just what Detroit needs!" Want to talk about being rude and insensitive, Mani? | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 3949 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.2.230 |
I'll say this changing my name to Louis Mariani, Jr didn't help my campaign. | ||
Mani Member Username: Mani Post Number: 81 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 68.60.182.26 |
Lucky for you, you are anonymous. | ||
Erobtheone Member Username: Erobtheone Post Number: 37 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 68.21.179.151 |
I believe he won because he had a better campaign than the rest. The seniors in that district got behind him with the hopes that he can bring a fresh new prespective to their situations. I am not sure that the holder of this seat in the past did that much??? Erob | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3573 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.21.37.77 |
Quick, without googling it, what is the name of the holder of the seat? I thought I'd make it easy for you. I won't ask about her {a clue) legislative record. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10455 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.37.236 |
Seriously man, I've been here longer than this dickhead. I should have changed my name to Coleman A Young, went to the tanner, and I'd have gotten elected...by a bunch of teary eyed voters. Like I stated, this is truly pathetic when somebody can move here a year ago and get elected to the position he did. I really don't give a flying fuck how many times he visited or how close he was with his family that resided here. The fact remains HE DIDN'T LIVE HERE, WASN'T NAMED COLEMAN A YOUNG, AND DOESN'T BELONG IN A POSITION REPRESENTING DETROIT! I hate to bag on Detroiters, as I am a Detroiter myself, but this just goes to show just how stupid the majority of the Detroit's voters really are. Had he not changed his name, and still ran as the son of Coleman A Young, he would have got his ass kicked. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3576 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.21.37.77 |
Gee Sport, how do you really feel? 33% of the vote? Well, people think term limits are the fix-it. So my district loses a very competent legislator and gets a guy who can tell the difference between green peppers and hot peppers and where they go on a sandwich. | ||
Morena Member Username: Morena Post Number: 468 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.242.214.135 |
So I guess you have the same problem with Burt and Gabe Leland who also didn't live in the district they claimed to have represented. In fact, it was reported that Gabe attended and graduated school in the Lansing area. Good 'ole name recognition has benefited more white families for generations and across every playing field but I see some people have a problem with it now. I wonder why? | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3577 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.21.37.77 |
Morena, This is not a racial issue, The concern is what does Coleman A. Young, Jr. bring to the table besides his name? It was his campaign literature that told us his work experience was Subway and Autozone. He promised some very vague proposals regarding jobs and healthcare which stand as much chance in the legislature as a snowman on my lawn last week. At this critical time both Detroit and Michigan need seasoned and judicious thinking to get us out of our predicament. I hope to be proven wrong, but at this moment I can only see a district that has lost a very competent representative (due to that damned term-limit law) and received in return a name, without the substance of the senior. | ||
Morena Member Username: Morena Post Number: 469 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.242.214.135 |
Jams: From the posts above: "It probably did not help that I was a white man standing in front of them telling them this." This one from a candidate himself. "I'm going to legally change my name to the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther Coleman A Young King XIII and run for office in Detroit. What do you think my chances are?" "Coleman young can not by any means be compared to Martin Luther King. Coleman Young was a crook." "You are probably white and have no clue about race issues and politics. That is why you wrote what you did without thinking about the consequences of your words. And for those who respond in defense of such ignorance should also think twice." "Seriously man, I've been here longer than this dickhead. I should have changed my name to Coleman A Young, went to the tanner, and I'd have gotten elected...by a bunch of teary eyed voters." In closing, I would ask you this one question, What in the hell did Mary Waters do for Detroit while serving over the past 6 years? Restore an elected board of education? Save DWSD from being taken away by the suburbs? Reduce auto/home insurance rates? Get Hendrix elected Mayor? Give Jr. a chance. Look at it from this perspective, people will expect much from him and he will want to deliver. | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 61 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 69.221.80.238 |
Give him a chance? Michigan is sinking fast. We don't have time for on the job training. | ||
Ron Member Username: Ron Post Number: 261 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 66.174.93.101 |
Morena, I want to clear up any misperception about my comments that you quote above. I was relating an incident that repeatedly occurred while I was campaigning. I also offered my commentary on a possible reason for the response that I received from many seniors in the district who did live through many painful periods in the past. The issue of race is clearly one of, if not THE biggest, social issue in the Detroit region. The one thing I prided myself on when I was campaigning (which was done mostly in the senior homes and on the 'net) was to speak bluntly about racial issues. With respect to voting on name recognition, I believe that it is sad if you choose a candidate based upon anything other than their qualifications/plans/etc., no matter what race they are. For example, Bobby Kennedy probably would have been a great choice for President (had he lived), but Ed Kennedy is something of a bumbling idiot. Same goes for W Bush. Two white men who have consistently won office based upon name recognition, and are probably more qualified to be flipping burgers. As a resident of this district and state, I sincerely hope Mr. Young does do a great job. I am also quite confident that he will go far in Detroit politics. My concerns are: 1) not enough experience to be able to both craft creative legislation that addresses our unprecedented challenges and actually get legislation passed, 2) not enough time spent in a state that he is representing in order to truly understand our issues, and 3) who is actually pulling the strings. These are concerns any concerned citizen should have. Doesn't have anything to do with race on this one. | ||
Alsodave Member Username: Alsodave Post Number: 752 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.209.139.181 |
I wanna know when is the interview scheduled with Bill Bonds, Jr? | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 62 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 69.221.80.238 |
This sums it up quite well: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060810/NEW S01/608100336/1122 | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 930 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 209.104.146.146 |
I just hope he doesn't tell folks to hit 8 mile. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1799 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 134.215.223.211 |
Morena, you said "So I guess you have the same problem with Burt and Gabe Leland who also didn't live in the district they claimed to have represented. In fact, it was reported that Gabe attended and graduated school in the Lansing area." As someone who lives in the Leland's districts I have a big problem with them, as do many of my neighbors (I'm white and my neighbors are black). It's well known to folks who actually do research on the cadidates for a race that they're both carpet baggers. But because of name recognition and the creative use of the fact that they did live in the neighborhood once upon a time (about 15 years ago) they keep getting elected to stuff, even when there are folks much more qualified than them running for that office. Gabe Leland does walk the neighborhood, knock on doors and talk to folks who have regular voting records. I've talked to him on several occasions and usually knew more about the legislative process as well as legislation that was in committee, about to be introduced on the floor or about to be voted on than he did. Much of that legislation were issues that were exclusively for Detroit or significantly impacted Detroit. What does that say about a legislator when they don't know hardly anything about their job, even after being there for 2 years? Gabe has introduced little, if any, legislation while in Lansing and hasn't taken a stand on anything that state legislators actually have any control over. What's in a name? When it comes to Detroit politics it's about 90% of the game. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3578 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.21.37.77 |
That's the nagging question in my mind. | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 560 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 172.161.157.134 |
Morena, I don't think you can play the race card on this one. In the past there have been criticisms in this community and, to be sure, on this forum, about the name recognition game played by whites. There was an outcry two years ago about the Leland carpetbagging. It was also raised earlier in this thread. The Pavlovian reaction of Wayne County voters to the Irish names of Callahan, Brennan, Cavanagh and Hathaway when they appear on the ballot (usually for a judgeship position)is perenially ridiculous. I think that there's at least eight of these folks on Wayne County circuit court alone. There's a few more on various District courts scattered around the region. I am sure there's a bunch more in law school or recently graduated who are planning for their judicial careers. This game isn't confined to black politicians and black voters aren't the only ones who deserve criticism for enabling the cynical game played by these people who bring only their name and not much else to the ballot. | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 3951 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.2.230 |
Coleman Young, Jr/Joel Loving's qualities as a potential legislator aside (and there is plenty to debate about there) I am not sure I understand the OUTRAGE over his victory. Seems to me politics as usual in Detroit and the nation as a whole. Ever seen the PBS documentary "Taking on the Kennedy’s"? http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov1996 /takingonthekennedys/about.htm l I think this kid actually had more of a relationship with his father than we give the both of them credit for. He changed his name before (not after) the original CAY passed away. Take all of that for whatever it's worth. In the end, like its teenagers, society gets the politicians it deserves. So if Young is a real turkey don't blame him, blame the voters who elected him, blame the do-gooders who shout "get out the vote" "rock the vote" "vote or die" without even paying lip service to the idea of being an educated citizen knowing what one is voting for, blame an educational system that has never really been serious about training students to be citizens, only worker bees. Casting a ballot, even for Mickey Mouse, is considered effort enough. Young's story isn't that strange or unique. It isn't as if he inherited a famous name and large fortune only to fail as an alcoholic, be told by his brother to stay the hell away from the family business, and own one of the least successful sports franchises in U.S. history. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7686 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
How long is this quote going to be misrepresented? Here is the relevant part of the speech: "I issue a forward warning now to all those pushers, to all rip-off artists, to all muggers: It's time to leave Detroit; hit Eight mile road!And I don't give a damn if they are black or white, or if they wear superfly suits or blue uniforms with silver badges. Hit the road!" Doesn't seem like he is telling white folk to leave the city like it is so often portrayed. I guess people can read whatever they want in a quote if they really want. Sadly way too many people read the quote above as "Get out whitey" and still think that is what was said. (Message edited by jt1 on August 10, 2006) | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10460 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.228 |
I could look the other way if he would at least go on record saying "Aloha Mother Fuckers!" | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7690 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
We sadly don't have a choice but to give him a chance. I don't always support career politicans but I would like our reps to have some political savvy for making deals in Lansing, the ability to write and sponsor legislation, a grasp of the issues facing the State and the City, etc. It will be very clear that CAY, Jr. will have an insignificant voice in Lansing based upon credentials and that essentially takes away a much needed rep for the city of Detroit. Maybe he will surprise me but I just don't have a lot of faith in the experience that is needed to be a politician. One thing that KK was good at in Lansing was working with both parties and writing legislation. I don't see this kid having the ability to do either. Show me up CAY, jr. The city needs you to. | ||
Firefly Member Username: Firefly Post Number: 45 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 198.30.81.2 |
Hmmm...how long did Hillary Clinton reside in New York before she became its U. S. Senator? What did Hillary know about New York before taking on the role as U. S. Senator? Name recognition and political nepotism at their finest. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7691 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
I am against carpet bagging in politics but she carries political clout and an understanding of the process and some expertise. It is still carpet bagging but I would much prefer a knowledgeable carpet abgger with clout than someone that knows nothing about the process and job. | ||
Morena Member Username: Morena Post Number: 470 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 216.45.2.138 |
I think we all agree that our Detroit delegation needs credibility. I'm not exactly sure how we get it when every six years, we have to elect someone completely new to the seat. In fact, some of the current Rep's are politically forced to run for Senate before their Rep. terms expire. This suggests that with only 2 or 4 years of experience under their belt, they are running for what is considered a higher level seat. I personally have high hopes for Jr. because I think he has a lot of pressure on him to succeed. This may or may not happen. On the other hand, he will be joined by a convicted felon, a perennial candidate for office Betty Cook Scott, at least one Lemmon, Cushingberry who is facing very serious legal charges that may eventually force him to vacate the seat, carpet bagger Leland, etc. Damn it's hard to be optimistic. | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 527 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 70.229.231.102 |
Reality check: "Dynasty-building seen in U.S. Politics WASHINGTON, Aug. 8 (UPI) -- The U.S. Congress has an unprecedented number of family members of past and current senators, representatives and governors, USA Today reports. More than 50 elected officials in Washington have relatives that either served or still serve, but only Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., lays claim to being the wife of a former president. A survey by the newspaper found four sets of siblings, four widows and scores of children. In contrast, 20 years ago, there were 24 elected members closely related to other elected officials. One example this year sees two children vying for the same Democratic House nomination in Maryland: John Sarbanes, son of Sen. Paul Sarbanes, and Peter Beilenson, son of former California representative Anthony Beilenson. Stephen Hess, author of "America's Political Dynasties," told the newspaper politics isn't much different than any other family business. "If you're a baker, you leave a bakery," Hess said. "If you're a politician, you give them a nice gerrymandered district." | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 852 Registered: 05-2004 Posted From: 68.40.119.216 |
Well he's got the name, let's see if he's got game. No doubt he'll be learning on the job but if he's got any political DNA from his old man it should show up pretty soon. |
