  Genesyxx Member Username: Genesyxx Post Number: 556 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 71.159.22.4 |
As much as you people on here talk about jobs leaving the state, there's no mention of this? Forshame.. http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20060807/B IZ/608070317 | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4729 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
Kroger's has been screwing Detroit and Suburbs for years. If they decided to move their plant to Ohio. Most people in Michigan will NEVER shop their supermarket ever again. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1787 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 134.215.223.211 |
I think most people in Michigan don't shop at Kroger currently. What do they have/offer that other grocery stores don't? | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 3619 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.47.100.44 |
Come to think of it, what is the metro Detroit's most popular grocery store?? | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 1221 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 198.208.159.18 |
I like kroger more than meijer and farmer jack that's for damn sure. They have a more extensive natural/vegetarian/organic selection than all the rest for starters. what michigan needs is Wegmans http://www.wegmans.com/ , they'd blow em all outta the water. awesome selection, food, carry out, and they're consistantly on the Forbes top 100 Best Companies to Work for list (I worked there myself) (Message edited by gravitymachine on August 07, 2006) | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1776 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
Wegman's is awesome. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1688 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 4.229.126.45 |
Here in AA Kroger is quite popular.In fact before Meijers,Busches, Hillers and a few other independents opened the Westside AAKroger was the busiest in the state. I hope somehow these jobs can be kept but I don't see this affecting the AA area Krogers(5) in the least. | ||
Deandub11 Member Username: Deandub11 Post Number: 46 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
Kroger is terrible. Although I do not live in ann arbor, when I went to school there I didnt know one person who shopped there. I have one right down the road from me now at home and I still dont step foot in it. Beggars cant be choosers in this situation though. We cant afford to lose more jobs. | ||
Quinn Member Username: Quinn Post Number: 813 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 69.242.213.101 |
Man I miss A&P! On a side note, I lived in Southfield in the very early nineties and shopped at the A&P on 10 and Telegraph regularly. It was awesome...some sort of space-aged test store with digital lights for signs, not only on each isleway, but a little digital price readout on every shelf for every item. The cieling was mirrored...very high tech for the day. I'll never forget when Farmer Jack bought A&P. The stripped out all the cool stuff and replaced them with hay bales, chalkboard signs and cardboard cutouts of "jack." I was SO pissed. ANYWHO...back to the thread...I feel for the people who face the jobloss and, had I known, might have attended the rally. Good luck to everyone, and I hope Hoffa prevails! | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 6548 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
Quinn, it was the other way around. A&P bought out Borman's, then converted their area stores to Farmer Jack. That's why there aren't any A&Ps any more. I have this mental image of you voguing in the Produce section.. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 587 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.227.219.108 |
The real issue is why Ficano and the other politicians aren't talking to Kroger officials to make it atractive to keep the business here. Union thugs pulled the "its us or else" approach on Krogers in PA many years ago. Kroger's answer was: "So long". Kroger closed every store in the state and moved to a business friendly environment. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10432 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.228 |
You're on crack. | ||
Quinn Member Username: Quinn Post Number: 814 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 69.242.213.101 |
All I know is that it was A&P and it was, dare I use the word, fabulous! I remember the employees hated farmer jack too. I specifically remember remarking that I had never seen so many silk plants before (there were thousands everywhere there was a shelf or window trim) at the checkout, and the cashier said something to the effect that I hadn't seen her mother's house. No...vogue was SO over by this time. It would have been Paula Abdul "promise of a new day." | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 1222 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 198.208.159.18 |
not usually. meijer's selection for a great many things that I like blows (including BEER,), the store is giant, hard to navigate when busy and there are consistantly not enough cashiers no matter which store I go to. farmer jack is better, but still not quite the vegetarian selection as kroger **edit** come to think of it, the marcus market (formerly Parker's, formerly Kroger) has a beer selection 10x that of meijer even (Message edited by gravitymachine on August 07, 2006) | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 3620 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.47.100.44 |
Now you folks have me thinking... what is the nicest grocery store around? Now I've been to the Kroger's out in Birmingham and that place is immaculate, brightly lit and has all sorts of different foods. It is by far the nicest grocery store I've seen in a long while but it is in posh Birmingham. And it's also great to hear people recollect their ideal grocery stores here too. I do wish that Kroger & the region here can come to some sort of deal. | ||
Gambling_man Member Username: Gambling_man Post Number: 802 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 199.178.193.5 |
Do you want full-sized Grocery store, or any market? | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1049 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.78 |
The Kroger in GPP is pretty nasty, followed closely by the Kroger on Mack just south of Moross (I think?). Farmer Jack Food Emporium in GPW or Trader Joe's in RO. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1689 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 4.229.123.37 |
To say Kroger is terrible is simply a false statement.Kroger favors comparably to any other grocery store; I know that for a fact here in AA. To who ever said when attending school in AA that no one shopped there you might be more factual and say no or not very many people yoo know shopped there. The S.I ndustrial Kroger gets a lot of students_ I see them in the store all the time_ and this is an old, small store clean but not a great selection. Perhaps here in AA where we are somewhat spoiled by many choices stores are forced to be cleaner and look better than other places where the competition is not as .......competitive. We went thru this on a lesser degree regarding Meijer(also a fine store) where some of you casually say things that are completely false.How does that help to ensure those jobs might stay here? It probably makes no difference but to have to constantly read wrong stuff here grates on me. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4088 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.177.81.18 |
To me, Kroger and Meijer are tops in the state. Everything else is second tier. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 539 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 35.12.24.64 |
Could it be that Supersport issued a blanket dismissal of Kroger's, with no explanation, just to get a big reaction (attention?) out of others? | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1270 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 136.2.1.103 |
Goddamned Ohioans are stealing American jobs! I dunno, a boycott seems a bit extreme to me... it's not like Kroger is a Michigan-based company anyway. I might consider a boycott if an actual injustice were occurring. | ||
Spacemonkey Member Username: Spacemonkey Post Number: 76 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 63.102.87.27 |
I shop Nino Salvaggio's or Famer Jack. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10433 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.228 |
Nope, couldn't be, not in this case. I like one stop shopping. I don't need to go to a Kroger or Farmer Jacks to get just food, only to make another trip elsewhere to buy paint, brushes, the brand of dogfood I want, cd's/DVD's, and all the other stuff the stores don't have. Meijers kicks the shit out of every other retail outlet, including the Super Walmarts and Super K's. In addition, having had friends and family that worked at Meijers, their employees tend to be happier than any of the other chains. I don't believe Meijers has EVER had their employees strike, which I know can't be said for Kroger growing up, though I can't vouch for Farmer Jack. | ||
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 321 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 71.227.95.4 |
IMO Kroger is one of the top chain groceries in Michigan. I'm basing this off the stores in my area, but they are always very clean, well staffed and have a good selection as well as decent prices. Meijer is nice, but sometimes I don't feel like walking "Fifty Acres" just to get a gallon of milk. That being said I still buy 75% of my groceries at Costco, if only they were closer. | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 478 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 68.43.81.191 |
The Kroger in Lincoln Park is always packed to the rafters with shoppers, many of whom are Detroiters (it is right off of I-75). Maybe Supersport doesn't like Krogers, but there seems to be no shortage of people in Metro Detroit who do like it. And Danny's assertion that most people in Michigan will stop shopping there is laughable. Have "most people in Michigan" stopped buying Ford and GM cars because of their downsizing and outsourcing of jobs to other states/countries or their frequent battles with the Unions? People will buy their groceries at whatever place is closest to them, and for many that is Kroger. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 3622 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.47.100.44 |
Are Meijer workers unionized?? Not sure. | ||
Udmphikapbob Member Username: Udmphikapbob Post Number: 164 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 206.81.45.34 |
you guys who hate Kroger obviously don't live in my neck of the woods - Livonia. the Meijer at Middlebelt and 96 is god-awful. always packed, never enough staff. the Kroger on 5 mile is so much better, now that they've renovated it. but if they give the axe to 500 Livonia jobs, i'll be checking out the Farmer Jack down Middlebelt. plus, Meijer treated my father-in-law badly when he managed one of their gas stations for years. they don't value their employees, and it comes through in the service. | ||
K_solomon Member Username: K_solomon Post Number: 15 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 199.178.223.4 |
All Michigan Meijers are unionized. I know that there are stores in Indiana, Kentucky and Illinois that are not. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1455 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.220.230.150 |
Careful, some of you are bordering on hypocrites. Kroger is bringing the jobs and operations back to its home state of Ohio, isn't that what you want the industries in Michigan to do. You do also realize that boycotting Krogers will cost more union jobs as those businesses will shed workers due to less demand. (Message edited by _sj_ on August 07, 2006) | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 192 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 69.136.155.244 |
What a load of disinformation this thread contains, beginning with the words used to title this thread. Don't you folks even take the time to read all the way through the article before you post? Kroger is not leaving the state - there are no plans for closing any of their stores and despite what Udmphikapbob writes, according to the union, the number of jobs that will be lost if this proposal gets implemented is between 150 and 250 - not 500. 500 is the current number of all workers at the Livonia facility. The surest way to eliminate the jobs of the remaining workers at the Livonia facility is to trigger a boycott of all Detroit-area Kroger stores. The question that begs to be asked is why does Kroger's warehouse subsidiary find it to be less costly to distribute Detroit-area produce from a facility located in Ohio? Is it due to wage differences, union contract provisions and/or state/local tax differences? The article doesn't even provide a clue. Instead, all this article focuses on is Hoffa calling for a boycott, saying, "Our people deserve these jobs." (Message edited by Mikeg on August 07, 2006) | ||
Firefly Member Username: Firefly Post Number: 27 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 198.30.81.2 |
Hey guys, I shot the people at Kroger's Corporate office and e-mail. I started to ask them if they would move the Kroger's headquarters to downtown Detroit but I knew that would be pushing it. For anyone that would like to join me in the e-mail tirades, here is the adddress: KrogerDontReallyGiveADamn@Cinc innatiHeadquarters.com Dear Kroger People: We don't own you. We don't understand profitability. We don't care about your bottomline. Just please, please, please, please, please stay in Michigan. Signed, The No-Nothing Business Association of Michigan | ||
Udmphikapbob Member Username: Udmphikapbob Post Number: 166 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 206.81.45.34 |
Mikeg, you hit the nail on the head with the $64,000 question. They said on the TV news last night that the workers make $20/hour there. In a warehouse. The jobs allegedly advertised in Ohio are for $12-15/hour. The facility is old, and they built a new one in Ohio in 2003. Maybe 3 years ago was when we should have been upset that they weren't given enough incentive to update this Livonia facility. _sj_ too is right that an Ohio-based business is bringing more jobs to Ohio. There are always two sides to a coin. Let's go to war with Ohio again and conquer the land that this warehouse is built on! Viva la revolucion! I still think my Meijer sucks though. | ||
Mtm Member Username: Mtm Post Number: 32 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 134.67.6.11 |
Favorite grocery store is the Busch's at Six and Newburgh. Staff there are SO nice and helpful - its kind of like Cheers "where everybody knows your name". I often need help with reaching and lifting things and I usually don't even have to ask. I'm there every Friday after work and it's such a pleasant experience that I lose all of my end-of-week grumpies. | ||
Missnmich Member Username: Missnmich Post Number: 536 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.32.180.75 |
I can't boycott Kroger. Here in the land of Walmart, Kroger is the only place that sells Vernors ... | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2790 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.228.1.191 |
Two things to keep in mind about this situation: 1. At $20, the Michigan workers were generally overpaid. 2. The cost of living in Delaware, OH (north of Columbus) is around 11% lower than Detroit, therefore a lower wage. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 4208 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.193.193.49 |
Krogers has always been about 10 steps away from the people it seems. In the 1960s, Detroit CORE, and jjaba, picketted the hell out of them because black people couldn't get promotions beyond a basic store clerk. We staged shop-ins, shopping for an hr. with a full cart, loading it onto the belt, and then leaving. Restocking understock is laborous and ugly when on a hot day, you got the meat, the ice cream, and ther frozen foods, dripping everywhere (before stores had AC). It took awhile but that Cincinnati outfit caved. Cincinnati, a Northern city with all that Southern exposure. jjaba, Solidarity Forever. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4097 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.177.81.18 |
And, Detroit is equally a Northern City with a Southern Persuasion. | ||
Firefly Member Username: Firefly Post Number: 32 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
WTF is all this Northern city, Southern persuasion BS? What Southern city has decayed to Detroit's degree based PRIMARILY on racism (which also includes intra-racial racism/discrimination)? Go ahead and blame racism solely on the South--you know that little part of the country where jobs are booming and crowds are flocking? I swear, Northerners sure do have this superiority complex when it comes to comparing themselves to the South. I have never witnessed Blacks living in such slummy conditions in the South as I have witnessed up North. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4098 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.177.81.18 |
No, Jjaba was just taking a dig at Cincy that I thought was uncalled for, since because of migration, Detroit is nearly equally Southern in culture. BTW, are you a Southerner? Awfully touchy, don't you think? I don't think any of the comments should have warranted such a response. (Message edited by lmichigan on August 07, 2006) | ||
Firefly Member Username: Firefly Post Number: 34 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
I don't pay you to think. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3564 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.21.43.253 |
Thank god! I'm guessing many of the answers would just confuse you. | ||
Pdtpuck Member Username: Pdtpuck Post Number: 162 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 208.251.168.194 |
DUH! "Krogering," of course! *sings* "Let's go Krogering!"
and I bet that gallon of milk is of the low-fat variety, isn't it? 1.....2.....3..... | ||
Missnmich Member Username: Missnmich Post Number: 537 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.32.180.75 |
Firefly is right. I don't know how many times I have read that Detroit's racial problems stem from the inflow of Southern whites looking for jobs, and bringing their prejudices with them.(Check it out in the Detroit Almanac.) No one had to teach Detroiters to hate ... | ||
Ericdfan Member Username: Ericdfan Post Number: 123 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 68.41.116.2 |
i shop at aldi's they sell food for way cheaper than most others and most of it is just as good as kroger/farmer jack's food. I can't imagine paying 4 bucks for a box of corn flakes ever again...The selection is decient considering they are a discount store... | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 4210 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.193.193.49 |
The racisism at Krogers was much worse than at other big chains so Detroit CORE went after them in the 1960s. If Firefly will listen, Detroit has the largest number of Black people in the middle class in the United States. Based on a number of factors, Detroiters are proud of the accomplishments of Black people, Black workers. Cincinnati pales by comparison. That's the onliest point jjaba is making. jjaba tells it like it tis. jjaba has lived in both cities. You can disdcuss the merits of the South on www. Mississippiyes.com, but not here please. This is about Krogers. jjaba, Westsider. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 741 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 207.200.116.139 |
Change of direction on this topic: I worked for Borman Foods (their chain was known as "Big Bear" back then) in the early 50's as a stock boy/carry out. Only had the job for three months, and I hated every minute of it. Store was just east of Marygrove College. Whenever I go into a supermarket today, there is a distinctive "grocery" smell to it that gives me flashbacks every once in a while. I'm still grateful that the job in the hardware store opened up when I was suffering at Big Bear. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 202 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.60.181.41 |
What Kroger warehouse workers are paid $20/hr.? All of them? | ||
Missnmich Member Username: Missnmich Post Number: 538 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.32.180.75 |
Jjaba- I admire your activism in the past, you have a right to be proud of it. However, is race an issue in the current discussion? Does Kroger(No final s) still fail to promote persons unequally because of race? If not, your observations from the West Coast are as irrelevent as my ramblings from Dixie ... | ||
Hybridy Member Username: Hybridy Post Number: 13 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 206.126.217.221 |
down with those bastards i guess i'll keep shopping at meijer can we boycott bp while we're at it??? | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4746 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
We'll not go Krogering period!!! I'll shop Meijer's instead | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1051 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.78 |
Ray, the same thing happens to me. I worked at Hollywood in Royal Oak from 16-20 and that smell is so familiar. I can't really even begin to describe it, but it permeates your senses. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1458 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.220.230.150 |
No, the warehouse in Ohio pays $17. The $20 just appears to be here. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 208 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.60.181.41 |
All of the Kroger workers are paid $20/hr, plus benefits. All of them in the warehouse in Michigan. Is that a true statement? | ||
Thursdaynext Member Username: Thursdaynext Post Number: 315 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 70.227.85.179 |
There is no one supermarket/grocery store in Michigan that does it for me. I find the prices at Kroger and Farmer Jack are too high so I only go to them on the rare occassion that they advertise an awesome-can't-beat-it price on something. Meijers, besides not caring to navigate that store, has gone down in IMO when it comes to the quality of their produce and meats and it's true that they never seem to have enough cashiers. When it's time to stock up I pretty much plan out a shopping day that takes me to multiple stores. I like to buy organic when I can (yes, I am willing to pay a bit more for this) so I'll go to Zerbo's or Trader Joes. Will also occassionaly go to Westborn Market or Joe's Produce in Livonia for fruits and veggies and I'll also hit up Westborn and Byrds Meat Market when I'm looking for a great cut of meat for some new fangled recipe I might be trying out. Someone mentioned Busches at 6 & Newburgh, I don't shop a ton there because of pricing and distance, but I really like the store and they stock items that you won't find at places like Kroger. If I just need to run out to stock up on a few things like cold cuts, milk and eggs, I run up to Value Center Market (I believe it's a Spartan store) at 6 & Inkster, it's close to home, the store is well kept, prices are decent and they offer a nice variety considering the size of the store. Lastly, my boyfriend and I always try to make it to Eastern Market to get our fruit and veggies during the summer and fall. Kinda bummed though because this one Michigan farmer I really liked has not been there this year. To sum up, would I miss Kroger - no, but I wouldn't want to see any more job loses in Michigan than we already have. I'm currently searching for a new job after 10 years with an ad agency that had a bunch of layoffs last month; it hasn't been easy. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 4213 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.193.193.49 |
Missnmich, jjaba was giving a short history, that's all. Hopefully, Kroger has reformed. For a complete history of the progress in the South, jjaba errored. Try this one. www.racismgoneinARK.com. jjaba, Being silly. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1459 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.220.230.150 |
Not Sure. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 211 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.60.181.41 |
Whenever I hear tales of high wages at blue collar jobs, my bullshit detector goes off. I would like to know what percentage of Michigan Kroger Warehouse workers make $20/hr., whether that includes benefits (factored in), what their seniority is and how many total workers make that kind of dough. I would also like to say viva $20/hr. Why the hell not? | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 4215 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.193.193.49 |
Where did you buy the Bullshit Detector? jjaba would like one. jjaba, tells it like it tis. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1461 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.220.230.150 |
According to the teamsters all employees make $20/hr. The workers in Ohio are represented under a different union.
Becuase the employees of Krogers, who are not teamsters and earning far less, will succumb to job losses that will be greater than the current losses at the warehouse. And will not have the oppurtuinty to relocate with their jobs. Their union actaully does not support this effort. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2795 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 75.7.133.92 |
Likewise my bs detector goes off whenever I hear someone advocating for unnecessarily high wages (whether it's union warehouses/factories or CEOs), especially for (relatively) unskilled labor. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 3634 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.47.100.44 |
All of those guys get $20 an hour? Even the guy with the least amount of seniority? I'm not sure what perks there are for having seniority then, other than selecting vacation days first. What are the perks other than job stability then? I'm not that familiar with the tussle here so that's why I'm asking. | ||
Futurecity Member Username: Futurecity Post Number: 304 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.212.61.25 |
$20 an hour? That's outrageous! Those workers must be living like KINGS! Big houses, big, big cars, second homes, vacations abroad, a bling budget. Dosen't 20 bucks an hour works out to like, 40 GRAND A YEAR??!!! This sort of thing can't continue. I'm glad to see Kroger is taking action to bring some sense to the matter. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2796 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 75.7.133.92 |
By all means...as many barely high school grads, GED holders, drop-outs, and other unskilled workers should earn $40k a year. Who cares if many teachers, social workers, child care workers, elder care workers, college educated, skilled trade workers, etc. don't earn that kind of salary. Surely those (and other) Kroger warehouse workers could pass those jobs onto their kids and grandkids down the line. Gee there's nothing work with setting up an entire region and state based on that kind of system. What could go wrong? | ||
Mrjoshua Member Username: Mrjoshua Post Number: 869 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 193.32.3.83 |
"Our people deserve these jobs". It amazes me that this ignorance lives on in an era or globalization. Hint: $20/hr is a lot of money for a job that requires little more than a pulse. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 3638 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.47.100.44 |
Is $20 an hour too much? Is it not enough? I'm not one to judge here just because we also live in a society where 22 year old kids get paid tens of millions to dribble a basketball and play a game too. There's a part of me says great for those people- they're getting paid a great salary; who wouldn't want that? But then the flipside of it is if the company wants to streamline its operations and save some money, who can blame them as well? Alas this is going to take more than the wisdom of Solomon (and I don't think Hoffa or Kroger officials have that yet) to solve this dilemma. | ||
Michikraut Member Username: Michikraut Post Number: 175 Registered: 05-2004 Posted From: 217.232.117.73 |
I used to be a big Meijer fan- then they just became too damn big- "fifty Acres" is not so far off. Over in the west side- I´ve always liked to go to D&W. Now those are some nice stores- classy and well-stocked but a bit on the pricey side. When in Detroit- I like the grocery store on Main in Royal Oak- somewhat small but good selection (actually great selection with odd stuff) and prices are average. Meijer used to be good to their employees, that is when the old man still was in charge. Ever since the Meijer kids have taken over- the employment became a lot more miserly and the number of full-time workers were halved and more employees are working part time positions. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 218 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.60.181.41 |
I really want to know about these wages. I have a hard time believing that all the warehouse workers get $20/hr. Saying the teamsters say that is not supplying a source. I echo Smogboy's comments. In this day and age $20 is not that much. | ||
Raggedclaws Member Username: Raggedclaws Post Number: 1 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 68.40.245.180 |
Long-time lurker, first-time poster here. Futurecity and Oldredfordette: Thank you for some reasonable perspective. Metrodetguy: You sound bitter. Don't hate the player, hate the game... Here's how it is: $20/hr is the top end wage at the Livonia warehouse, to reach it you need about 5 years full-time, Kroger hasn't hired full time in years (as they would have to provide benefits) so most workers making $20/hr have 15+ years in. Moving approx. 30,000 lbs. of product (order-pickers do this BY HAND) in a warehouse without air conditioning and very little heat in winter. These are not the blue-collars that we all heard about a few years back who were buying yachts on overtime, etc. In the end they will lose their jobs to Ohio, their pensions to corporate greed. But at least the Cheetos and Moon Pies are still getting to the store on time ! | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1462 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.220.230.150 |
Of course using teh above post, it sounds like maybe the teamsters were doing a little grandstading with the wages since they make it sound like all the employees being cut are $20/hr salary jobs. I found this in a DetNews Article.
I have a hard time believing that part-time teamsters get no benefits. (Message edited by _sj_ on August 10, 2006) | ||
Raggedclaws Member Username: Raggedclaws Post Number: 2 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 68.40.245.180 |
sj: You are spot-on. Teamster elections are coming up soon in Las Vegas (natch !). Kroger never said that it was CLOSING the warehouse, just that it was moving the perishables to Delaware. That will mean some job loss here. In the end Teamster officials will be able to say they SAVED some of the jobs vis-a-vis their grandstanding. IMHO long-term requires Granholm, Dillon, and Hoffa to sit down and figure out what Michigan needs to offer in the way of tax incentives for Kroger to leave non-perishables here. Interesting to me in that this represents a recent trend in our states competing with each other for jobs (as opposed to USA & India, Mexico, etc). When the "state-of-the-art" warehouse in Delaware was built 3 yrs. ago Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, and Pennsylvania were all in the running. Ohio offered the sweetest-ass deal to get them to build there. Had nothing to do with location of Kroger headquarters. And so it goes... | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7688 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
Raggedclaws - While the conditions may not be the best does that still merit $20/ or $17.50/. Ultimately they are jobs that many, many people can perform which would dictate that the wages whould not be on a professional level. The expectation that people should make 40K per year for labor that most people can do is one of the reasons that Detroit and Metro Detroit is falling apart. We may not have many jobs here in the future but at least the few thousand remaining will be well/overpaid. Great logic. There is a reason that there is so much job migration out of this state. In my younger days (~10 years ago) my factory job paid me $7 an hour. It was tedious work and I busted my ass. I also knew that if I left there would be 20 people waiting to replace me. Seems like a fair compensation given the fact that we were pretty disposable employees with no major skillsets. Unions claim to be fighting for the little guy but they are fighting a fight that either results in solid pay or lost jobs. The latter of the two options is what is winning out in Michigan. | ||
Raggedclaws Member Username: Raggedclaws Post Number: 3 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 68.40.245.180 |
Jtl: I hear what you're saying IN THEORY. But consider this: Should unskilled labor not be financially rewarded to the extent that a man or woman can support a family ? Someone has to do those jobs. Would you like all unskilled labor to be performed by teens ? You are right about unions, but ultimately the workers don't care as long as the jobs stay. | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 232 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 71.65.11.152 |
Here is a pretty cool link that shows average wages in Michigan ( linked from the State of MI ) http://www.michlmi.org/reports /wage/wageReport.jsp $20.00 is not that much (unless you are a pre-school teacher, correctional officer or fire fighter...) | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7689 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
I understand your point and in an idealistic world I agree. The issue has gotten past needing well paying jobs in the State to needing jobs. I would rather house my family in a very small house and have no luxuries than have no home and no job. It is a fine line to teeter on and there may not be a clear answer but the business climate in this State is hurting the job market. Some is company policy and pay, some is state and business taxes and some is unions demanding too much for their employees and forcing jobs to leave the State. We are in a job market that is competing with other states and foreign countries and we are losing. The State needs to make this a more business friendly state and the unions need to loosen their stranglehold. High taxes and high pay don't tend to lead companies to want to move here. I truly wish that all workers made a great living but we are no were near that ideal and are suffering. | ||
Raggedclaws Member Username: Raggedclaws Post Number: 4 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 68.40.245.180 |
Well said, Jtl. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 219 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.60.181.41 |
Thank you for the clarification, Raggedclaws. I am usually in the loop on labor issues, but i'm coming off a vacation and having house guests so it helped me to read your post. There are several Teamster units who represent part time workers without health care. This can also be chalked up to the "business climate" in the state of Michigan. As long as we endure this, it will happen. It makes me so fucking mad. Shareholder returns increase, CEO compensation increases, and it comes out of our asses. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 4224 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.193.193.49 |
$20 an hr. is $41,600 annual. That's a nice wage for semi-skilled warehouse workers. Losing 1,000 of those jobs is a big deal, anywhere. The impact on families is terrible. Bad news. jjaba. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 196 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 69.136.155.244 |
^^ So now it's up to 1,000 jobs being lost? Yes, I guess that would be a big deal and bad news, except it would have to happen somewhere else. The entire Kroger Livonia warehouse only employs 500 people! | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2799 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.237.162.213 |
Raggedclaws, you sound like an enabler and apologist for an outdated (and now unreasonable) way of thinking and lifestyle. The fact is that most unskilled labor was never meant to support an entire family (especially as a single income source and especially for a large family). Why encourage someone to base their life on this type of job rather than using it as entry level? Again look around this state. Three generations of that type of lifestyle has come to an end. Anyone encouraging someone to pursue that type of thinking and lifestyle these days is not doing people any favors. | ||
Raggedclaws Member Username: Raggedclaws Post Number: 5 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 68.40.245.180 |
Metrodetguy - come out of the cave ! Not sure where you are but I'm here on Earth. Hundreds of thousands of people working non-skilled and expecting to earn a fair wage. Are you going to send all of us to college yourself ? | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2807 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.237.162.213 |
Raggedclaws, stop trying to advance yourself by keeping others down and pretending to care about their plight. Life isn't a zero-sum game. Some of the very people that claim to care about the lower socio-economic classes the most, actually don't want them as competition for them and their friends and families. Likewise there are hundreds of thousands of people that are uneducated by personal choice, have little-to-no motivation, etc. Are you going to give them all high-paying, comfortable jobs? | ||
Raggedclaws Member Username: Raggedclaws Post Number: 6 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 68.40.245.180 |
Metrodetguy: Advance myself by keeping others down, don't want the competition ? I'm degreed and a twice-elected school board trustee. I'm not worried. My husband works at the warehouse in question. I've worked in management for 20 years, he's labor. I understand both. My husband kicks himself in the ass everyday for not finding a way to go to college - he never had the resources, so he put his faith, trust and much sweat into what he thinks is an honorable and honest job. Not sure what you do for a living but you seem to be waaay out of touch, or as I initially said-bitter. I'd like to see you tell Local 337 that they are of the lower socio-economic class in person. Anyway, I simply posted to clarify some points and add some needed PERSPECTIVE. If we're going to bitch to Granholm about jobs, I guess we should be clear on which ones we want, eh ? | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2809 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.237.162.213 |
You're kidding about being out of touch right Raggedclaws? Your "degreed" status and job in the ivory tower said it all. You have all that going for you but had to resort to name-calling when someone disagree with your point, rather than having an intellectual debate? Try complaining to the thousands of unemployed or those working for close to minimum wage about $12-15/hr. Better yet, go face other Kroger workers whose jobs you could endanger. Likewise, I'd like to see you come into Detroit (or many other areas) and name-call with anyone that doesn't agree with you and tell them about your credentials. Maybe we can continue tell the general public that the government will take care of you, look to liberal entertainers and their lifestyles, and that Google, Eprize, and Toyota jobs are for them (until they find out that those jobs are for UM/MSU grads w/ IT/sales backgrounds, attorneys/IT/graphic/art design, and engineers, respectively). | ||
Raggedclaws Member Username: Raggedclaws Post Number: 7 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 68.40.245.180 |
Bitter is an adjective that I feel describes you. Show me where in my posts I called you a name. Fine tune your argument before you ask me to debate and leave out the gibberish about liberal entertainers, etc. Again, not complaining - simply clarifying some points and asking to keep in mind that unskilled, honest labor deserves a fair wage. Not sure what your point is anymore ... | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2810 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.237.162.213 |
Fine tune your argument indeed Raggedclaws. With all that education and those credentials, playing dumb certainly isn't going to work for you. "Name-calling" was a general term to describe your rudimentary tactics ("bitter", "come out of the cave"), and you know that, or maybe you think everyone else isn't as "smart" as you to figure that out. Again, with that type of resume, a feeble attempt to back-track and talk in circles is the best that you could come up with? Come on. Unfortunately most of your argument was gibberish. Again try telling some of the truly less fortunate that they are "bitter" or "out of touch". How about a broad PERSPECTIVE rather than that narrow one that you tried to pass off. | ||
Raggedclaws Member Username: Raggedclaws Post Number: 8 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 68.40.245.180 |
Metrodetguy...I'm gonna let YOU have the last word here. I just figured out who you are (within the context of this forum) and I feel better knowing that I'm not the only one who thinks you speak gibberish. I was beginning to feel sorry for you... ^^^ Most of your above comeback consists of words,phrases, and terms I put to you first. For your last post on this why not try something original. Give us your position in 25 words or less. Go. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2819 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.237.162.213 |
Raggedclaws, I'm certainly not as mad at you as I would be at another because I realize that you are protecting your livelihood (of course under the guise of caring about the plight of others). Of course, like many, you don't have enough character to at least admit so... You might also want to try complaining to many DPD, DFD, DPS, EMS, Military, college degreed professionals, etc who are making $24-35k about the "plight" of unskilled labor at the Kroger Warehouse making $40k. And throw in your credentials and some of your snide remarks. That should go over well. Good luck with that. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7703 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
Back to the topic at hand: Form the article in today's News by James Hoffa http://detroitnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20060811/O PINION03/608110320&SearchID=73 253444698843
Well if an hourly worker says they should build it in Detroit that is good enough for me. I'm sure he knows of all the finances and planning that go into this.
One person taking care of a family of four. I suspect that jobs such as these are not meant to support a family of 4 but it is now expected in this state. Just sounds like there is a whole lot of entitlement throughout that entire article. That entitlement is what is driving jobs out of Michigan. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 223 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.60.181.41 |
Fuck that kid! Fuck those lazy people! Who says they're entitled to a fucking thing? Why should he be allowed to work to support his family? Why should he get a living wage for his work? If he wanted a disabled child, why wasn't he born in the college class? The nerve of them. You suck, do you know that? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7712 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
Nice rationale argument. I am not saying that they deserve nothing. I am saying it is absurd to believe that a low skilled position should support a family of 4. I grew up oin a house where both parents worked and worked hard. They didn't have the luxury of making $40K a year for a job that is replaceable. Sadly, Hoffa and people like yourslef are telling Kroger to fuck off and they are listening. I sympathize for the situation of having a disabled child but that does not entitle him to more money. With such concise arguments as yours it is a wonder why companies do not want to deal with the stranglehold of the union and are leaving the State. You advocate fighting for better pay but the end result is that you and your union leadership are chasing jobs out of this State. Blame who you want but until your unions are willing to sacrifice we will continue to lose these jobs. I guess it is better to be jobless than to accept a lesser wage in your world. Sadly, those that you support are getting the short end of the stick. And yes, I do know that I suck. With people like you the unions don't need enemies. They can quickly make them on their own. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 225 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.60.181.41 |
Your sympathy is dripping all over the page. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7713 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
How about we find all of the people in the State and City that have disabled, sick children or ill parents that they care for. We tell their employers that they can give them a wage that will support everyone so that they can get proper treatment or we will form and strike. How will that go over? I think the problem is that you tend to see things on the level of the individual. That is great in an idealistic world. IN our world it chases off jobs. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 226 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.60.181.41 |
Cold and ugly - fuck you I got mine. It's not idealistic it's realistic. but it's all about bottom line, right? Do you understand Kroger made this decision - it's done. No boycott will change a thing. And it had nothing to do with union or not union. Increasing the profit margin, not increased efficiency, fuck that. Increased profit margin. Increased efficiency means the customer might actually get something and that is not going to happen. Our community will not get anything. Profit margin. Period. May you get caught between a rock and a hard place. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4124 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.177.81.18 |
Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), it may take just that, Oldredfordette, for him to realize that. Oldredfrod, most of America's "Compassionates" as they like to call themselves, are anything but. Our economic ideology/indentity practically preaches social darwinism. You know the ideology that there is a boulder (unrestrained capitalism) behind you coming down the hill (life), and you better run like hell or get crushed. And, if you get crushed, well, oh well. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 4236 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.193.193.49 |
Wal-Mart employes 1.8 Million of us. They set wages which are $10.21/hr. for shop-floor personnel, plus the cafeteria of benefits, including profit-sharing. What we have here is the Wal-Martization of the workplace. Families shopping Wal-Mart save on average $2,500 annually compared to Krogers. So Krogers thinks they can compete by consolidating warehousing and pay cheaper wages. Outsourcing to Indiana is just like GM or Fords. Maybe Kroger can distribute their groceries to Michigan from India and pay $1.00 USD a day.! Oldredfordette speaks harshly because this is a another economic disaster for those affected. jjaba, Solidarity Forever. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1465 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.220.230.150 |
You do realize that technically these jobs in Livonia which cover the entire Great Lakes Region were outsourced to Michigan in the first place. So how can you outsource and outsource? BTW, ORF, that is terrible definition of Efficiency | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 4259 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.193.193.49 |
sj, point well taken. When you buy from a Cincinnati company, Michigan really is a branch plant in the first place. One of the best posts so far, sj. It's just that we've known Kroger for so long, we axctually thought they were really ours. jjaba has fond memories of 1954 when Krogers opened in Northland in the back, Greenfield Rd. side, later JC Pennys space. Krogers had a conveyer belt to the parking lot with a clerk in a heavy winter coat and boots out there to "Catch" your groceries as you fetched your car. Then, he loaded for you and off you went. No shopping carts pushed through the snow anymore. It was slick. Your groceries came out in big plastic boxes. It was Pure Detroit factory assembly line. jjaba, Westside, fond memories. |
