  Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 183 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
I want to bring back the SMART buses to Livonia by working to lower costs and improving service. Since it’s likely that the city of Detroit will serve the Wal-Mart in my area, I might be able to work with city officials to post bus schedules by using their buses. I will miss the SMART buses and bike racks, so I want them back. I need suggestions to convince Livonia to opt back in. I want to appeal to the voters since my efforts at city hall have failed. I posted bus schedules and worked with businesses and brought many riders and strong supports but still I’m not taken seriously, So, please leave suggestions on how to totally reconstruct my website. I’m very serious about making a regional bus schedule as this is what I really enjoy doing. I want to start another petition to last four years to get enough signatures to get SMART back. http://savethefueltax.org (Message edited by Trainman on August 06, 2006) | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 677 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.212.169.194 |
Show the routes that would exist, the times and appeal to the convenience for the citizen. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4727 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
Trainman, Tell it the folks in Hitlerland Livonia. Bringing the SMART buses back to their clean white city will cost the Hitlerland Livonians extra money from their property tax values. And they have it, they just don't want to pay it. Plus it's a RACE thing just to keep more blacks out from grabbing more manufacturing jobs and occupying some of their neighborhoods. (Message edited by danny on August 07, 2006) | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 149 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
I'm a voter and am all for getting rid of the SMART bus system in Livonia...I'm pretty familiar with the issue so I don't think there's much anyone could do to convince me that this isn't the right move...though, I will admit, I still haven't heard ANYONE make any argument yet as to why we SHOULD keep it, though this may be because there aren't any valid reasons to do so...I'm guessing other Livonia residents feel the same...but I wish you luck in your endeavor anyway... | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 150 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
Hey Danny: Maybe if you refer to our beautiful city as Hitlerland a few more times and keep calling us racists, we'll change our minds and continue paying for this bus system. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4731 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
Yes, Whoever you are! Even though you all Hitlerland Livonians don't want the SMART bus in you white city anymore. You still have to keep on paying property tax to the Wayne County Public Transit Authority. The ones who deliver the millage money to SMART. | ||
Drankin21 Member Username: Drankin21 Post Number: 27 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 84.168.118.177 |
I can't wait for the future when all of the Mass Transit options (that are due to happen with 3.00 and higher gas )snakes around Livonia. Or tunnels under it. You can do it Livonia! I live in the "true Hitlerland" (Wiesbaden, Germany) and we have BEAUTIFUL mass transit, including buses. | ||
Wazootyman Member Username: Wazootyman Post Number: 93 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.75.220.9 |
Yeah, I sure am glad we got rid of those PACKED busses in Livonia. The dozen or so residents that rode it on a regular basis are probably pretty upset. I did vote to keep the buses, but I can understand and don't fault those who wanted to eliminate the service. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10434 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.228 |
Until you can prove to the majority of the people of Livonia that the buses won't bring in "those people," you're fighting an uphill battle. Livonia is the whitest of white for a reason, they like it that way. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 151 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
Supersport: You get the award for most idiotic comment of the day, and I'm not referring to your failure to use proper punctuation. "Livonia is the whitest of white for a reason, they like it that way." So how exactly does Livonia go about preventing non-white people from living in their city? Let the rest of us in on your conspiracy theory please. (Message edited by thejesus on August 07, 2006) | ||
Alsodave Member Username: Alsodave Post Number: 746 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.49.95.11 |
For Thejesus...  | ||
Wazootyman Member Username: Wazootyman Post Number: 95 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.75.220.9 |
I'm one of "them" and believe it or not, I don't hate black people. Nor do my neighbors. So, what's your point again? | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 152 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
Wazootyman: These people are just a bunch of ignoramuses who like to throw accusations around to try and gain a benefit from someone else’s resources. In this case, they are hoping that playing the race card will someone how pressure Livonia residents to keep dishing out their money for a bus system that the residents don’t even use. Needless to say, it isn’t working. And Livonia isn’t even the whitest city in the area. Plymouth, Northville, Royal Oak and Birmingham all have equal or greater percentages of white people. This is just how metro Detroit has evolved. People can live wherever they want to, and people tend to want to live by those of similar background. It’s tragic, but that’s how our region has evolved. It has nothing to do with government conspiracies to keep certain kinds of people from living in their areas. | ||
Udmphikapbob Member Username: Udmphikapbob Post Number: 165 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 206.81.45.34 |
I've tried three times now to come up with a thoughtful, concise, educated post to add to this thread, and it's just not possible. This issue can't be addressed alone. It becomes a microcosm of what is wrong with the entire region, and how over 50 years of misguided leadership has dug us a hole so deep we have to stand on each others' backs just to see the sun. The buses don't work because the metro region wasn't developed in a way that makes bus travel convenient. The reason buses are empty in Livonia is because there are only a few real job corridors, and they are separated from the residential areas to the point where bus routes don't easily serve them. But Livonia is 98% developed, and the population has peaked. The tax base is drying up as jobs and people leave, and saving a few bucks by opting out of SMART made sense to a lot of residents. I voted against the opt-out, of course, because I see transit as part of the big picture. Too many people here (in the Metro Area) don't see themselves as part of a greater metropolitan region - heck, they seem to see themselves as the center of a universe that should revolve completely around themselves. Livonia is a great example of the typical dying inner ring suburb that is being bled to death as it subsidizes the guy with the knife. Until the advocates of sprawl are forced to pay their own way, and there is regional cooperation and some level of tax-base sharing and transit coordination, older suburbs will continue to decay, and the people who can afford to do so will move farther and farther apart, and take what few new jobs will come with them. Trainman - there IS support for transit in Livonia. I know democratic candidate Patrick O'Neil was part of the stay SMART group. I have been to a couple of TRU functions and met others from Livonia. The problem you seem to face is that as far as I can tell, you're one guy. Have you tried to hold some kind of meeting? Have you worked with others in existing groups? I too would like to see coordinated bus transit in Livonia, but if it's just me and you sitting in your basement printing flyers, it's not going to work. I need to stop while this post still makes a little sense, and get back to work. The rest of you, enjoy the ensuing flamewar. | ||
Alsodave Member Username: Alsodave Post Number: 747 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.49.95.11 |
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/housi ng/fairhousing/whatnew.htm Rental Discrimination: • On April 28, 2006, the Division filed a complaint in United States v. General Properties (E.D. Mich.), a pattern or practice case alleging discrimination based on race or color at the Whispering Woods Apartments, a 273-unit apartment complex in Livonia, Michigan. The complaint alleges that the owner of the complex, General Properties Company, LLC, and its president Elliott Schubiner, have refused to rent apartments to African American prospective tenants because of their race or color. | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 223 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 71.65.11.152 |
Alsodave: General Properties Company, LLC has a W.Bloomfield office address, he does not run or speak for Livonia. | ||
Alsodave Member Username: Alsodave Post Number: 748 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.221.73.69 |
No, but this is one recent, documented case that happened *in* Livonia. If this were a thread about a different suburb, I could post a recent, documented case against *that* suburb--never mind any historical data (and it's out there). We won't even talk about Wal-Mart... White DetroitYes posters who reside in Livonia may not be racist, but Livonia's history speaks for itself. | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 224 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 71.65.11.152 |
With that said, since Detroit has a reputation for murders, than Detroit's history implies everyone who lives there is a murderer? I think not. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 153 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
Alsodave: Is that the best you could come up with? That link you provided has zilch to do with the citizens of Livonia or it's government. The local government doesn't own that property, and as Thnk2mch pointed out, the developer isn't even based there. Rental discrimination happens everywhere. Minorities bring down property values, and private developers have an interest in protecting their investment. This is true whether you are in Livonia or anywhere else in the country, and that is also why the DOJ investigates this sort of thing. But if you are up to the challenge, I will afford you another chance to give an example of how it is that Livonians prevent minorities from living in their city, since you haven't been able to do so thus far. (Message edited by thejesus on August 07, 2006) | ||
Drankin21 Member Username: Drankin21 Post Number: 29 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 84.168.85.247 |
"Too many people here (in the Metro Area) don't see themselves as part of a greater metropolitan region - heck, they seem to see themselves as the center of a universe that should revolve completely around themselves." could not have said it better myself UDM | ||
Alsodave Member Username: Alsodave Post Number: 749 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.221.73.69 |
Nope. "With that said", Detroit's history implies that it isn't safe to live there. But that's an argument for a different thread. Livonia is 95.5% white. Livonia residents voted no to SMART, mainly because their residents weren't using the system. Much of the money "saved" by opting out of SMART would be used to promote a Livonia-only transit system. So who used the busses in Livonia? Where did they go? Did they create any positive economic impact on the city? Does any of that matter if they were not "residents" of the city? | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10436 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.228 |
Ok, Livonia is the whitest city in the United States with a population OVER 100,000. The majority in this region DO NOT use mass transit, but it is a public service in which MANY poor people depend upon. SMART ridership has been on the rise in recent years, why did Livonia opt out of the system? To seclude itself and prevent people who don't live there from getting in. Livonia is probably the most guilty for pulling people over for "driving while black." I see it on a daily basis along I96 where they set up a speed trap near the construction zone. Damn near every time the people pulled over are black, why is that? They sure aren't they only ones speeding on a daily basis through that area. Why is it that while most other suburbs, even most all downriver communities are becoming more integrated, Livonia seems to hold steady as the whitest city in America? Livonia will likely NEVER vote to bring back mass transit, so you'd be better off moving to a community that isn't so closed minded. Supersport from the westside....tellin' it like it is and watchin' folks squirm because the truth hurts | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 154 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
Alsodave: I'm not certain of the point of these relatively simple questions you've posted, but I will go ahead and answer them anyway. Non-Livonians accounted for most of the people using the buses. The buses went to a bunch of places, namely the city of Detroit. A study by the city determined that any negative economic impact that would occur from removing the buses would be minimal. Local businesses were polled about this prior to any major decisions being made. And positive economic impact is the only thing that could justify a city paying for a bus system that its residents don't use. But since the economic impact was determined to be minimal and the cost of subsidizing the system unjustified, the fact that most of the people using the bus system were not Livonia residents only further supports getting rid of the system. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 158 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
btw, I'm still waiting for ANYONE to give ONE EXAMPLE of something the city of Livonia has done to prevent non-white people from living there t... You guys can throw these accusations around all day long, but unless you have something to back it up, you just come off as morons and cry-babies at the end of the day. | ||
K_solomon Member Username: K_solomon Post Number: 16 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 199.178.223.4 |
Thejesus
If you believe this then you have helped proved Alsodave's point. | ||
Alsodave Member Username: Alsodave Post Number: 750 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.221.73.69 |
Thejesus: 1978--A U.S. district court judge ruled that Livonia could not spend $150,000 in federal housing funds, because it had been receiving grants without complying with the 1974 Fair Housing Act. Source: Detroit: Race and Uneven Development, by Darden, Hill, Thomas and Thomas (1987, Temple University Press) page 144 | ||
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72 Post Number: 34 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 66.184.3.44 |
quote: Minorities bring down property values, and private developers have an interest in protecting their investment. thejesus, maybe you should change your handle to thehitler with intelligent posts such as that. Grosse Pointe doesn't seem to have a problem with property values and they have a growing black population. Harper Woods certainly has now problems with plumiting values and they also have a thriving black population. Need I go on? | ||
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit Post Number: 677 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 65.42.23.2 |
Did SEMTA eventually become SMART Busses? | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 225 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 71.65.11.152 |
According to this article: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060801/NEW S06/608010383 the citizens of Detroit do not pay the SMART millage, as they pay for THIER OWN city bus system. ( DDOT )
According to this article: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=2006608070398 DDOT still would have a stop in Livonia at I-96 and Middlebelt.( keeping no one out )
| ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2570 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.90.170 |
Thejesus.... not sure of the spelling, but shouldn't the plural be "ignoramei"?  | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10437 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.37.236 |
Ok, here is one for ya. When I am lucky enough to get a SMART bus to stop and I pay my $1.50, am I sticking it to the man? Here is a system that my tax dollars are not going towards, yet I am still utilizing. Or, is the fact that it's a suburban bus system already funded sticking it to me, because it's an extra $1.50 that they otherwise wouldn't get. Inquiring minds wanna know! | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 184 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
Today, I received another letter from the Federal government and I'm going after the SEMCOG I-75 freeway expansion in full force claiming that shutting down public bus service in Detroit and Livonia to raise money for the freeway expansions is discrimination and against my rights as protected under the Civil Rights Act of 1964. I have done this before using ADA federal laws which worked to get more money from MDOT for handicapped accessible bus service Among the problems faced by transit advocates in Livonia to keep SMART are that people feel cheated by the large recreation tax and the timing of the Wal-Mart move to a residential area. I asked top officials and developers to build a nice bus shelter and post schedules to help but they ignored me. I also published a really nice article about SMART in the Livonia paper about their reliable service as a thank you for their positive efforts. Thank You for the comments so far and please keep them coming. The SMART tax will likely pass tomorrow, so let’s help them more by using the bus to go downtown instead of the freeway. This is one way you can support the cause to help SMART and DDOT. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 159 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
Ksolomon: You can pretend that racism doesn't exist in America if you want to. But in reality, people generally want live among others of similar background, and since white people control the bulk of the wealth in America, that wealth gets spent in areas with other white people. Rich white people in metro Detroit do not pay top dollar for enormous homes in Detroit...they do so in Gross Pointe and the rest of the 'burbs. And private developers/land owners like the one in Alsodave's post are not refusing to rent to minorities becase the simply hate them...afterall, their money is green too...rather, the reason is because the developer fears that renting to minorities will hurt the property value if white people do not want to live there. It's a fact of life that you can deny if you want to, but it's still a fact. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 160 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
Detroitej72: The short answer to your confusion is that all things are relative. The property values in those areas are higher than in surrounding areas because of the quality of the real estate, and they would likely be even higher than they are if there were a higher percentage of white people in them. You can pretend racism doesn't exist if you want to, but that does nothing to alleviate it's effects. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 161 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
Alsodave: Unfortunately, I don't have the book handy. Why don't you fill us all in on specifics. What was Livonia doing 30 years ago that violated the FHA? | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 162 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
Thnk2mch: Thanks for the info. It's good to see that Detroiters still have a bus system to get them to I-96 and Middlebelt, which has been a major destination for a lot of Detroiters for a while. Unfortunatley, most of these clowns aren't interested in solutions like the DDOT line. Rather, they just want to be able to call people racists. | ||
Alsodave Member Username: Alsodave Post Number: 751 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.209.148.16 |
*One* line into Livonia is a solution? Thejesus, Do a simple Google search, or better yet, go to your local library and get the "specifics" yourself. | ||
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72 Post Number: 40 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 66.184.3.44 |
Quote: Detroitej72: The short answer to your confusion is that all things are relative. The property values in those areas are higher than in surrounding areas because of the quality of the real estate, and they would likely be even higher than they are if there were a higher percentage of white people in them. ------------------------------ ------------------- So what your saying is that black folks don't have any money? Your walking a thin line there thejesus, really painting yourself into a corner. | ||
Tayshaun22 Member Username: Tayshaun22 Post Number: 298 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.14.101.116 |
If they had money, what's stopping them from moving into Livonia? | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3563 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.21.43.253 |
FOUR more years of Trainman? Christ, I'm a proponet and user of what passes for mass transit, but reading his posts for the next four years, I can't be held responsible for my actions. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 163 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
Detroitj72: Since when is speaking the truth 'walking a thin line'? I never said that black people don't have any money. YOU said that. I'm saying that white people have more money...A LOT more... Here are some stats for you to chew on. These are the 1992 median household incomes of the three major racial groups in America: Hispanics 33,432 Blacks 34,585 Whites 55,560 Source: http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs /ssb/v64n4/v64n4p1.html If you want to tell me I'm wrong, then back up your claims like I have done. Or just don't post in this thread anymore...either one is fine. EDIT: Also, here's an AP article with more recent data that states the the median household income of whites is 11 TIMES that of blacks and hispanics. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/18/national/main649831.shtml (Message edited by thejesus on August 08, 2006) | ||
K_solomon Member Username: K_solomon Post Number: 17 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 199.178.223.4 |
Thejesus, To say that minorities who move into a neighborhood bring down property values is ridiculous. The REAL reason the property values drop is when people with mindsets like yourself, out of fear, put thier homes up for sale out of fear and glut the market (i.e. blockbusting). The housing market is based on supply and demand with no regard for race. But I digress. As Udmphikapbob said, the region really is developed in a way that makes bus travel realistic and I can't find fault with Livonia for wanting to eliminate the service. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 164 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
K_solomon: I don't know what mindset you are accusing me of...so please explain yourself.... ...but the supply and demand that you speak of is exactly what I'm talking about. Property values are based on whatever people are willing to pay, and the white people that control most of the wealth in the country are willing to pay less for a property in an area consisting of mostly minorities. So we are agreement whether you like it or not. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4747 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
I wonder that upcomming super EVIL WAL-MART has something to do with the SMART opt out in Hitlerland Livonia. For they think that Developing a EVIL WAL-MART Supercenter will lure more black-folks from Detroit to work there and maybe live in one of the those homes. | ||
Mumbly Member Username: Mumbly Post Number: 33 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 69.218.157.234 |
Has anyone ever quizzed Wal-Mart's executives as to why they refuse to build a store within the city of Detroit? What's the problem? There is obviously a large pool of potential customers in the city. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 238 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 65.95.58.69 |
The buses should be forced on Livonia. I have never heard of suburbs being able to vote if they want bus service or not. This is a metro region of 4 million people. There should not even be a question or vote on if a particlar place should have transit. Every single area of Metro Detroit should have public bus service. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4754 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
Miketoronto, It's all about American MONEY and democracy, we choose when we could have something in our city to improve our society or not. I'm not sure what your public transit in your Socialist city can do. In which I do your Socialist network. (Message edited by danny on August 10, 2006) | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4755 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
Mumbly, If EVIL WAL-MART want to build a big box store in Detroit, it would take money and correct planning and to have an area with high traffic volumes. And if they want to build a their store in a Detroit ghettohood takes lots of security due to all that violent crimes. I don't think that a EVIL WAL-MART wants to put up a plastic bulletproof glass windows in their checkout lines. Just recently, The EVIL WAL-MART execs. are thinking about shutting down their stores in Chicago for the alderman board and the solidarity support of the employees voted to have EVIL WAR-MART pay their employees a living wage increase. | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 186 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
I conntacted Wal-Mart officials at Livonia city hall about saving SMART before the opt out and wanted them to post bus schedules and build a bus shelter to attract more business but they just gave me a blank stare and said nothing at city hall. It's not fair to SMART to lose Livonia because of Wal-Mart, so I want to help them come back. I'm very serious about the petition drive as my website supported the SMART tax. I need lots of suggestions at this time as I'm not an expert on mass transit and do not have all the answers. I really think we all need to come together whether we voted NO or YES and all agree to improve our exsisting public bus systems and work to get good cost-effective passenger rail services to improve our transportaion system even more. I will miss SMART very much and I think they are great but I can pay and have money so I want to work to get real mass transit leadership. Please help me by leaving lots of suggestion and take me serious because I really do care a lot and have much compassion for others. (Message edited by Trainman on August 10, 2006) | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 239 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 65.92.75.134 |
I say you start a poster that is put up all over Livonia that really makes the city feel shame for cutting transit off from people. Livonia's slogan is "people come first" You could start a campaign that targets that. LIVONIA WHERE TRANSIT RIDERS COME LAST You can also post stories of people affected by this change. I remember when the Detroit News did a series on mass transit misery in Metro Detroit. They had a story about a girl in Livonia who relied on the SMART buses to get her to the Detroit Medical Centre in Detroit for lung treatments for a lung problem she had. The buses basically were the only way for her to be able to get to life saving treatments in downtown Detroit. Touch on stories like that. | ||
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72 Post Number: 73 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 66.184.3.44 |
Welcome back Trainman. We missed you. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1698 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 4.229.132.31 |
Mikeintoronto I am convinced you were a mean ass dictator/ slaveholder in a past life.You seem to relish "forcing" people to do what you think is best........I am sure your idea of forcing Livonia to accept SMART is being cheered by Livonians. The reason Livonia is the way it is is because they don't want shitheads (criminals) messing with their city.And like it or not most of those are coming from Detroit.But lest you all start foaming at the mouth with your perfunctory racsim accusations, I would point out that Redford is very much the same in that they do not tolerate crap there as well. I love Sport.He remind me of 12 step mtgs where someone gets up gives a rousing, spirited, testimonial convincing me they have years and years of sobriety and (not)much to my dismay they are usually less than 60 days clean. Sport has earned the privelege of saying whatever he likes.Just know Sport that alot of it is silly and callow and that there are many people lving in Livonia that lived in Detroit longer than you have been alive. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 240 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 70.48.13.218 |
Its not about being a dictator. Its about providing a means of transport for everyone in the region. Should Livonia be able to vote on if they want fire protection or police? No they can't, and why should they vote on if buses should should run. Its stupid. I think the US is like the only place where people vote on if to provide public transit or not. In the rest of the world, it is provided as a given. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 174 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
Miketoraonto: I think the "People come First" slogan you are refering to means the people of Livonia, and allowing the people to vote on whether or not they want to pay for a bus system would be consistent with such a slogan. Forcing the people to pay for something they'd rather not pay for would, on the other hand, NOT be puting the people first. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 175 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
Mike: Yeah, we're allowed to vote on a lot of things in the United States that other countries don't give their citizens a choice on...it's tragic that you think that's a bad thing, but whatever. And communities can actually vote on whether or not to keep their police and fire departments...I think a comuinity near St. Claire Shores had a ballot measure just a few years ago to get rid of their police department, though I'm not sure of what the outcome was...but before you criticize it, they had a unique situation...I don't remember specifics... Anyway, most places would not opt to get rid of their police and fire departments because the people understand the benefits of having them. In our country, we trust the people to make these decisions. This is what separates us from many other countries. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3583 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.74.0.201 |
Hey kid, try using that line at your next meeting with the IRS. But thanks for the laugh. | ||
Smith Member Username: Smith Post Number: 1 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 192.85.50.1 |
Bus service in Livonia is not going away. SMART is being replaced by a more efficient city service. Take a look at the Mayor's notes on page 3, 3/4 way down left column. http://ci.livonia.mi.us/bins/s ite/content/documents/2006%20S ummer%20News.pdf?_resolutionfi le=ftppath|documents/2006%20Summer%20New s.pdf Is mass transit always subsidized? If so, why? It seems reasonable that the riders should pay for their transportation. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 176 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
Jams: Your confusion lies in the fact that you fail to consider that the government of Livonia serves the people of Livonia while the IRS serves the people of the United States. The IRS oversees the administrative aspects of federal taxation as such taxation benefits the people of the United States as a whole. The city government of Livonia, on the other hand, works for the people of Liovnia, and allowing the people to opt out of a bus system that the people do not use is consistent with their duty of putting he people of Livonia first. Hope that helps, a**hole. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4778 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
Trainman, At least it was not a totall lost. There's still a D-DOT bus Route #38 Plymouth Rd. that runs to Livonia and stops at Meijer. If that New EVIL WAL-MART Supercenter is completed maybe new D-DOT Routes to Meijer and EVIL WAL-MART will begin after November. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 243 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 207.61.38.86 |
Smith the new service Livonia is providing is a limited service that just provides transport for seniors, and a limited number of out of town residents. Basically Livonia will be running vans to the end of SMART bus routes. That is stupid, and if I was SMART BUS, I would end the routes so far from the Livonia city limits that they could not provide a shuttle to the bus stop. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 244 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 207.61.38.86 |
Smith the new service Livonia is providing is a limited service that just provides transport for seniors, and a limited number of out of town residents. Basically Livonia will be running vans to the end of SMART bus routes. That is stupid, and if I was SMART BUS, I would end the routes so far from the Livonia city limits that they could not provide a shuttle to the bus stop. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4781 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
A van for public transit in Hitlerland Livonia. HAHAHAHA!!!!!!! The Hitlerland Livonia city council must be crazy like a fox. There a bunch of low-life only to promote what's good for society not for the people. People don't come first in Hitlerland Livonia but to their fatherland. | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 238 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 71.65.11.152 |
You guys do know the city of Detroit runs their own bus system, right? | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4784 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
Thnk2mch Of course, It's called D-DOT!!!!! I hope you rode that bus before. Only a $1.50 one way and $0.25 for a transfer. And ask the D-DOT bus drive for a double so your make another transfer to either D-DOT or a SMART Bus. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4785 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
What's Hitherland Livonia transit sytem is going to be called? How About AHLDOT!!! Which means The Authority of Hitlerland Livonia Department Of Transpotation. | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 239 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 71.65.11.152 |
And you don't want Livonia to run their own system why? | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 245 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 207.61.38.86 |
D-DOT is different then Livonia running their own system. D-DOT serves a large geographic araa and acts as the central transit system of the metro region, and provides routes that do connect with SMART and even serve certain suburban areas. D-DOT bus routes are full service. The system Livonia will run is not a regular transit system. It is a transit system that you have to book a ride for, and it will serve mostly seniors and have very limited hours. There will be a job shuttle with the same style of service. That is not a reguilar public transit system. Livonia also has a small land area and is part of a METRO REGION, that should have bus routes that cross borders. Of course when I emailed Livonia about how bad it was they were pulling our of SMART one of the city councillors said they did not need buses because Detroit is not a normal metro region where people go into downtown and the city, and need transit to get there. That was her excuse that Livonia does not need transit because people don't go into the city. (Message edited by miketoronto on August 12, 2006) | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 183 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
Miketoronto: First off, Livonia consumes 36 square miles, which isn't exactly small. Secondly, what you say about the Livonia transit system having limited hours and serving mostly seniors is accurate because that is all the Livonia needs. Virtually all of us have cars here. We don't mind people from other cities coming here if they want to. We just don't want you reaching into our wallets and taking out $60 in order to get here. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 246 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 207.61.38.86 |
Well guess what, Livonia is not a seperate place that exists on its own. Livonia is part of Metro Detroit, and city borders mean nothing. Livonia if you really want to get technical is just a part of Detroit, and just happens to have their own city council. All of METRO DETROIT is one city when it comes down to it, and people don't stay within their little borders of their suburb. If Livonia exists on its own, then I say Livonia residents don't get access to DETROIT Metro Airport DETROIT Opera House DETROIT sporting events All roads should be closed of at Livonia City borders if all they need are the places in their suburb. And all the other places in Metro Detroit that are regional should not give access to Livonia residents. Livonia has to get it in their head, they are not some isolated little city. They are just a neighbourhood in a city of over 4 million people. And cutting the buses does not help at all. I would love to see Livonia residents who voted to cut the SMART buses to actually look that girl from Livonia who depends on SMART buses to get to downtown Detroit for life saving lung treatments, and tell her that $60 is so much more important then providing needed transit to all residents in Metro Detroit. Livonia residents should be ashamed of themselves. Just wait if one of those people ever suffers from something that stops them from driving, and they need SMART. Well it won't be there. (Message edited by miketoronto on August 12, 2006) | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 185 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
Mike: Going by your post, it seems as though you think Livonia is taking active steps to keep outsiders from getting in the city. This is not the case. All we're doing is no longer paying for a bus system that we don't even use. If someone else wants to pay for it, then by all means we would let them. But the reason they don't is because these things are expensive and money doesn't grow on trees. (Message edited by thejesus on August 12, 2006) | ||
Cynknight Member Username: Cynknight Post Number: 74 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.208.123.192 |
I grew up in Livonia - my mother still lives there. It's very painful to read comments that Livonia is "Hitlerland" or anything else. Yes, there are white racists in Livonia as there are black racists in Detroit - and every other city in the United States. What benefits do Livonia residents gain by continuing to pay for public transit they're not using? And MikeinToronto - residents who no longer have a car and need to shop or get to the doctor will call the local bus service/van for an appointment to be picked up - door to door. That seems cost effective and sensible to me. And since 93% of the population has access to a car, family and friends and neighbors can pick up the slack. That's suburbia. There are no easy solutions to the problems of mass transit. But to equate all residents of Livonia as racists when they most certainly ARE NOT is just as ignorant, IMO, as people in the suburbs believing all residents of Detroit are criminals and living in poverty. | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 519 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.246.29.185 |
It's exacltly that self centered line of thinking that keeps metro Detroit in the dark ages. You'd be hard pressed to find any decent system where there wasn't low ridership cities paying in, but other metros also recogize transit as a regional asset. Would you honstely say that Livoina wouldn't benefit if this region had a decent light rail system, even through the ciy probably wouldn't contribute a lot of riders? | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 247 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 65.95.57.139 |
Who cares if the riders don't all come from Livonia on those buses? Livonia is a part of a region, and as such should have regional services like buses that cross city borders. I don't use the bus in the suburb next to mine, I guess my tax dollars should not go to that huh? That is stupid. SMART is a regional system, and you can't cut routes up based on which suburb wants to pay, and expect to have a proper regional system to actually move people around. Cutting up a regional bus system is no way to improve the quality of life of the region at all. I love how people say no one used the buses, yet over 2,000 riders a day are carried on Livonia SMART bus routes. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 188 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
Mike: We can, and we are. And we'll deal with the consequences, if any. Somehow, I think we'll manage just fine though. | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 241 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 71.65.11.152 |
I pray for the day when the metro Detroit area has a fully functional light rail/mass transit system. Again: Ddot is run by the City of Detroit, and employs City of Detroit workers. Ann Arbor runs their own bus system, " The Ride( AATA)". Why can't we see a bigger picture where separate, more efficient systems link together for one bigger Mass System? This is the belief I have of Livonia opting out. Something like Ann Arbor's 10 year plan here:
http://www.theride.org/StratPl anExecSum.html | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 248 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 65.92.152.183 |
Seperate systems do not work. In a METRO region you need seemless service over a wide area. Each suburb can not provide bus service, and expect it to provide the needed services. And Livonia is not providing public transit service. It will be providing a shuttle service. Big difference. Seperate systems just don't get the job done. Many of Toronto's outter suburbs use to each have their own bus systems, and it was a nightmare to cross city borders, etc. Guess what happened? Almost all of them have merged into regional systems. Regional systems work the best. There is a difference between DDOT running service, and each suburb having their own transit system. DDOT is the central transit system, covering the main city. Anyway it should not even be a question, Livonia should have buses going down their streets run by a regional system no matter what. Check out this map and service levels for St Albert Transit, a transit system run in a suburb of Edmonton. St Albert has about 60,000 people. Lets see Livonia run a system like this, I don't think they could if they even tried. St Albert Transit runs their own system with commuter express buses to downtown Edmonton, major universities and malls in Metro Edmonton, plus local routes within their suburb. Again, lets see Livonia do something like that. But they are not, they are just providing a shuttle as a last resort. St Albert Transit map. Majority of residences are within 5min walk of a bus stop. St Albert Map. Transit system. (Message edited by miketoronto on August 13, 2006) (Message edited by miketoronto on August 13, 2006) | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 192 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
"Anyway it should not even be a question, Livonia should have buses going down their streets run by a regional system no matter what." But we aren't. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1705 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 4.229.132.140 |
Haha love your last response Thejesus.It is more than a little confusing that some nazi up in Toronto wants to dictate what Livonia or Ann Arbor should do and how to run our transit system. Btw TMike AATA is regularly cited as one of the best transit systems(based on city size)in the U.S._ you can forget about AATA being sucked into some regional system and AATA obviusly will not run a metro system since Ann Arbor is not a suburb. Anyway back to thejesus and his very accurate ...." But we aren't"..... | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 249 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 207.61.38.86 |
What should be done is the State of Michigan should merge Livonia into the City of Detroit, and DDOT take over bus service in Livonia. Livonia has to understand they do not exist in a bubble, and that buses must run to all areas of the METRO region regardless of city borders. And its not being a nazi by mandating that all areas of a metro region have bus service. | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 242 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 71.65.11.152 |
Miketoronto, I am not sure where you are getting your information from, but the busses that you speak of for seniors are the same busses that have been here all along. The links thar you provided above, clearly state that there are seperate systems in different areas that OWNED and OPERATED by the individual areas.
All are not run by one (CUTA) , but link together.http://www.cutaactu.ca/ | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 193 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
lol...the state should merge Livonia into the city of Detroit? That would be odd considering that the two cities don't even border on each other...but whatever...every opinion has an asshole | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 250 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 207.61.38.86 |
The point is there should be full service bus lines running in Livonia and that service should be provided by SMART. There is no need to break up a regional service. Also about the link I posted for St Albert Transit. They are a seperate bus system, but St Albert is one suburb located on one side of the metro region with no other suburbs surrounding it. So it is sort of by itself there. That is different then Livonia which is surrounded by other suburbs, and already is part of a regional bus system. Most metro regions are trying to put regional systems into place. Not take them apart. Access to transit should be equal like access to fire, police, etc. I beleive in that, and will not back down from that view, because people in a suburb think they don't live in a metro region that includes places outside their little city border. Thats why a merger may be needed of all the inner suburbs like Livonia into the City of Detroit. Would show them they are not seperate places, but one region that must come together to prosper. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 194 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
But Detroit is different than a lot of places...this is the home of the American automotive industry, and because of this our region has evolved in such a way that we have opted to not invest in a major transit system like other cities have in order to give people an incentive to buy automobiles...which is why we have higher automobile ownership than anywhere else...we've had the buses for a while, but it's just too expensive to sustain both forms of transportaion, PARTICULARLY when it's being paid for by people who don't use it. Owning a car is not cheap, but it has it's benefits...and it's even harder to own one when you have to pay for a second form of transit that you don't even use in addition to your automobile. People who actually use the buses need to pay for their operation, and if it gets to expensive, then they may want to consider investing in an automobile | ||
Pjazz Member Username: Pjazz Post Number: 56 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.212.209.207 |
Detroit is no different than any other city. Auto companies want you to think using a vehicle is your only choice. Thats why GM bought the trolleys which were extremley dependable. Then they promptley introduced buses and destroyed the trolley service. Only the people from Livonia think it's not needed. The rest of the state overwhelming voted for bus service. We talk about how the car companies need to get their head out of there ass and make fuel efficient vehicles. Livonia needs to do the same thing. There selfishness and closed minds are one of the reasons this region is in the crapper. Wouldn't it be ironic if Rock Finacial moved to the city and the people who live in Livonia have to commute to the city. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1715 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 4.229.132.199 |
Nice story p'jazz but a total fabrication...... | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4792 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
Great Post Miketoronto, Hitlerland Livonia needs a regional transit system instead or some independent community transit system. Come November when SMART leaves Hitlerland for good, lots of people who depend on the SMART's Park and Ride to get to Detroit to work and back will have to drive their gas guzzling cars. Folks from Detroit and suburbs won't be able to get to work in those industrial zones resulting over 1,000 jobs to be lost. People from Detroit and suburbs will have a hard time visiting their friends' house in a typical Hitlerland Livonia neighborhood or "THEY" won't come to Detroit or suburbs to visit them. Less if D-DOT increase its bus routes to any Hitlerland Livonia industrial areas then the jobs, visitations and errands would come back. As for right now Hitlerland Livonia is going to suffer without regional transit and maybe those folks in Hitlerland Livonia will cry "BOO HOO" and bring the SMART bus system back. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 253 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 65.92.146.88 |
What Livonia wants is SMART without paying for it. I can not believe they are going to run shuttles to connect with SMART buses, instead of just letting the SMART buses come right into Livonia and pay for them. Backwards if you ask me. And ontop of that these shuttles are not going to be running as often as the buses do. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4797 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
Well Miketoronto, Their "AHLDOT" Shuttles will provide fair transit to those who need to get of their nice comfortable cookie cutter homes. Hitlerland is going to suffer real soon. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 199 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 24.169.224.43 |
"Hitlerland is going to suffer real soon." Somehow, I think we'll manage just fine. LMAO! | ||
Udmphikapbob Member Username: Udmphikapbob Post Number: 169 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 206.81.45.34 |
You think Livonia is doing just fine, Thejesus? Why has the population declined since 1990? Why are schools closing? The population is old - 26% are over 55. Only 5% are children under 5. There are more people aged 75-84 than there are under 5! Families are moving out, my friend. The city has no room to grow, and its tax base is declining. The housing stock is aging - 83% of homes in Livonia were built before 1980. What does it all mean? Property values aren't going up any more. Families aren't choosing to move to Livonia, because there are fewer jobs. Cutting bus service will only serve to keep businesses from choosing Livonia. Watch, over the next 10 years, as Westland and Canton grow - or should I say continue to grow, and bus service takes workers from Detroit and Dearborn to jobs in those cities. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 200 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 24.169.224.43 |
Udmphikapbob: All those things you cited are just the natural life cycle of a suburban city. The population is getting older, and the kids who were raised there are adults and are moving to other places. And you don't seem to be very up to speed on this issue since you were unaware that Canton opted out of the SMART bus system in the 1990s, as did Plymouth and Northville, and all three are some of the nicest, most vibrant suburbs around. Trust me...we'll be just fine. | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 192 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.141.144.2 |
THEJESUS - are you wearing sunglasses at night? first of all you say your city is fine with minorities moving in. Remember the uproar last year when WalMart wanted to build a larger store? When I first heard the news, I said "great, finally a progressive community opposing this corporate giant" until i heard commentary from the community leaders opposing the company who said things to the effect of "we don't want the store here because it will bring crime [read: black people] into our city" - bravo livonia. and thejesus, you're wrong. livonia Is going to suffer real soon. We're all now watching and bracing ourselves for the decline of the inner ring suburbs - so the inner ring suburbs feel the decline that they themselves caused the innercities. Your turn, have fun. the innerring suburbs are, for the most part, shrinking... To halt this decline, the inner ring suburbs need to BAND TOGETHER with DETROIT. We can only survive, stop sprawl, and prosper together... and that starts with a solid regional transit system... | ||
Big_daddy Member Username: Big_daddy Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 216.216.61.68 |
Notice is hereby given that two public hearings have been scheduled on September 14, 2006 to consider the following proposals to substantially change or discontinue service on the following bus routes effective November 27, 2006: Route 285 Middlebelt – Orchard Lake: Service in Livonia discontinued. Other route portions replaced with new routes. Route 295 Plymouth Rd: Discontinue service. Route 297 Industrial Dr: Discontinue service. Route 305 Grand River Limited: Discontinue service between 7 Mile and Downtown Detroit. Also discontinue service on Haggerty south of 10 Mile Rd. Route 315 Seven Mile: Discontinue service. Route 410 Woodward – Northland: Discontinue service Routes 415 and 420 Greenfield / Southfield: Discontinue service south of Northland. Routes 810 and 820 Park and Rides: Discontinue service. Replace with new express route serving Farmington, Farmington Hills and Redford Township. SMART Connector service in Livonia will also be discontinued. In addition, alternate small bus service operated according to the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) will be discontinued in areas that no longer have fixed route service. Two public hearings will be conducted on Thursday, September 14, 2006: | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7719 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
Secog estimate (take it with a grain of salt) Livonia - 2000 census, April 1, 2000 100,545 Livonia - Estimate August 1, 2006 96,513 Loss of 4 percent of the population in 6 years. Draw your own conlcusions but it appears to me that Livonia is an aging city in terms of infrastructure and population. Both lead me to believe that they should be working together with the city and otehr inner rings to make the inner ring part of SEM more viable for investment and future residents as opposed to putting themselves on an island. | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 245 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 71.65.11.152 |
Andylinn:
The community leaders said no such thing, a couple of ignorant people shouted dumb things out at meetings. ( kind of a like couple of ignorant people that shout out dumb things on this forum)
Bravo, Andylinn.( sincerely ) Remember, this entire state kinda sucks right now, only time will tell. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 202 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 24.169.224.43 |
Andylinn: I'm actually moving to downtown Detroit in the fall, so I guess I'm going to miss the decline you are predicting. As for the people who live near the Walmart site, even if they don't want black people around (and that is debatable), they don't speak for all of Livonia. Livonia consumes 36 square miles, and there are 3 1/2 miles between where I grew up and where the Walmart is going in. Furthermore, those people lived right next to Wonderland mall for decades, which was a main destination for black Detroiters who took the SMART bus system into Livonia, so having black people nearby is nothing new for them. You people just can't conceive that this was purely a financial decision and nothing more. It just makes good economic sense for Livonia to get rid of the bus system, especially since the businesses told city officials that they anticipate very little negative impact if the bus system is gotten rid of. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 203 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 24.169.224.43 |
JT1: That decline consists mostly of children getting older and moving on. My sister and I are two examples. We both lived at home in 2000, but we have since gotten older and moved out of 'Mom's house', my sister to Canton and myself to Royal Oak. Now the household is 1/3 the size that it was. Livonia doesn't have vacant housing or anything like that caused by the population decline. It's just the natural life cycle of a suburban city. | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 247 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 71.65.11.152 |
For the record, while Livonia lost about 4,000 - Wayne County lost about 71,000 | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7720 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.23 |
TJ - The explanation that you give is not that well thought out. Yes, the population is aging and the number of homes is consistent but who will move into the homes when the older populations retire of pass away. People are not looking to move to Livonia in droves. While it is a fine community it is not bringing in residents at an alarming pace. A quick search on realestateone.com (not the whole MLS) lists 989 properties for sale. You tell me what happens to the property values of a community with almost one out of every 35 homes for sale and an aging population. Also, consider how many of the households in Livonia are being affected by the Big 3 buyouts. Since it is an older community there are probably a decent amount of older auto workers. Their buyouts will just add to the poor real estate market in Livonia. People are not pounding down the doors to move in. The problem is not unmanageable but to think that Livonia is immune from decreasing property values, lowered tax base, etc is just ridiculous. Thnk2 - thyink of the size of the populations of Wayne compared to Livonia and the %s are about the same. Most of the loss is from Detroit so Livonia is actually hurting population wise more than most cities in Wayne County. (Message edited by jt1 on August 14, 2006) | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 204 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 24.169.224.43 |
Yes, Livonia has some issues resulting from an aging population, but is nothing we can't handle. Compared the issues facing facing the city of Detroit, we are doing just fine. And dishing out $$$ for a bus system that our residents don't use isn't likley to alleviate any of these issues, so I don't see why this is even part of the discussion. Livonia will be just fine. The population peaked back in 1970s at around 110,000, and the decline since then hasn't affected the city in any big way. It was a nice place to live when I grew up there, and still is. So stop acting like the sky is falling over Livonia. It's not going to keep those busses running. The people have already decided on the issue. (Message edited by thejesus on August 14, 2006) | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7721 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
Great argument. Compared to a 400 pound man I am disgustingly skinny. Your post does nothing to address the flat or declinging property values, diminsishing population, loss of business and the fact that nearly 1000 homes are currently for sale. But feel to free to believe that everything is perfect there because you are comparing it to Detroit. That is the most ignorant logic I have ever heard. I am not saying Livonia is a bad community or badmouthing the community in any way. Just pointing our the facts that are a reality. 4% population loss in 6 years, more than 1000 homes for sale and an aging population. Those are the facts. (Message edited by jt1 on August 14, 2006) | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 206 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 24.169.224.43 |
JT1: I was taking a cheap shot at Detroit there. The truth is, we are in WAY better shape than Detroit and it's Detroiters who are going to lose out in this whole deal, not Livonians. Detroiters will no longer be getting a free ride on our dollar. They will have to start reaching into their own wallets instead of ours if they want to get around town. We're happy to have them here, but they need to get here on their own. And given the lack of shopping malls, shopping centers and movie theaters in the city of Detroit, they need us more than we need them, which is why they come here and which is why it only makes sense for them to pay to get here. If there is any negative economic impact resulting from the suspension of the bus system, we will deal with it, but it will likely be minimal at best. You just watch. Either way, Livonians will be just fine. And acting like all Livonians will be living below the poverty level in 5 years if they get rid of this bus system has got to be about the DUMBEST attempt I've ever seen of someone trying to scare a group of people out of doing something to save their community some money. Trust me, JT1, when I tell you that it isn't working. My side won. Deal with it. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1716 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 4.229.132.113 |
I don't think he said Livonia is perfect.He said Livonia will be fine.I see nothing absolutely nothing that tells me it won't be.And that includes the issues raised here. Livonia looks the same now as it did twenty years ago, thirty years ago and ten years ago.And I am not talking about racial make-up.I am refering to the upkeep of the city and neighborhoods. | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 193 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.141.144.2 |
detroit needs livonia more than livonia needs detroit? Livonia may be a fine place to raise young kids, and save enough money to go to disney land once a year, but honest to god man, i've spent time there, and really, for anyone over 13, it's not that fun a place... In entertainment ALONE, livonia (as do the rest of the suburbs) depends on Detroit - not to mention the amazing restaurants, jobs, and even workers and shoppers! If a mystical city sucking vaccuum hose gobbled up one city, and only one city in metro detroit, believe me, detroit would be much MUCH more missed than livonia if one of those two cities were to just dissappear... it is a kinda "out there" argument to say detroit needs livonia more than livonia needs detroit... we all need each other, man, but detroit is still the center city (and the ONLY thing keeping me from leaving this state!) | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7722 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
My arguments have nothing to do with the SMART vote. I am pointing out a simple fact that Livonia is facing real challenges. I will address your points one by one so that you don't get confused:
Patting yourself on the back for being WAY better than Detroit is like being proud that you are the smartest person in a class of retards. Detroit has major problems and anyone that uses Detroit as a measuring stick to show the fine situation of their city is clueless on how to make a valid point. Claiming we are not as fucked up as Detroit does nothing for your argument. /quote{Detroiters will no longer be getting a free ride on our dollar. They will have to start reaching into their own wallets instead of ours if they want to get around town. We're happy to have them here, but they need to get here on their own. And given the lack of shopping malls, shopping centers and movie theaters in the city of Detroit, they need us more than we need them, which is why they come here and which is why it only makes sense for them to pay to get here.} You are using some circular logic. You acknowledge how much of a financial impact Detroiters have to Livonia business because that is their shopping option. So tell me how cutting off bus service will benefit those businesses in Livonia that make a fair chunk of their sales to Detroiters. But again, we are talking about the long term viability of Livonia, not buses. If you are really concerned about the impact ask the business owners that see Detroit dollars helping their bottom line.
That contradicts your first paragraph.
Where did I say that there will be even a majority or a hefty imcrease of people in Livonia in poverty. You are showing your lack of reading comprehension here. I am stating the facts that population and tax base is decreasing, Livonia currently has 1000+ homes for sale. That has nothing to do with the buses. It is a simple fact that Livonia is not seeing any tangible evidence that lead people to believe it is an improving neighboorhood. It is fine now but the mentality of yours and others such as yourself do not help Livonia. Livonia does not exist in a vacuum and people are leaving Livonia, the population is decreasing and the tax base is slowly declining. Will Livonia become an impoverished ghetto? No. Will Livonia see a probable decreas in property values and population? More than likely. It's not about sides. It is about realism. Livonia is still doing fine but need to address some real issues that they will be facing. You can spout "We won" all you want but Livonia, like many older suburbs are in fact losing with or without bus systems. So ignore buses and the SMART vote. Tell me how we are supposed to see something positive in a city with declining population, tax base and a glut of homes on the market? Don't compare it to Detroit or worry about buses. How can you address the above facts and insist everything is wonderful? I'm reminded of Kevin Bacon in Animal House screaming "Be calm, everything is fine" as he gets trampled. Livonia will never see the disinvestment that Detroit has dealt with but it has some very real emerging issues that need to be addressed. How do you think they should be addressed beyond saying "Fuck it, we're better than Detroit" | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 207 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 24.169.224.43 |
If you think there are serious issues facing Livonia, we appreciate your concern...lol...if you'd like, start a thread about. THIS thread, however, is about the bus system, which we've opted to get rid of. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7723 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
Since you are not willing to continue the conversation and have made it clear that Livonia is so wonderful and not facing any issues tell me why you aren't there.
Who is 'we' | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 208 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 24.169.224.43 |
Andylinn: I never said Detroit needs Livonia more...Detroit is a MUCH more important city...I said that the handful of Detroiters who shop here cannot do this in their own neighborhoods, and they need access to Livonia more than Livonia depends on them for economic support. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 209 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 24.169.224.43 |
JT1: There is more than one nice community in the Detroit area...I assure you, me living in Royal Oak has nothing to do with Livonia being a bad place to live. lol, and how are you going to criticize me for MY reading comprehension, then ask me who 'we' is...lol...read it again | ||
Janesback Member Username: Janesback Post Number: 1 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 69.153.35.244 |
Is this about buses or race? I am new to the forum and usually dont post. But it seems people are forgetting the original post and using race baiting techniques or playing the race card. Please, lets stick to the original subject for this post. thanks | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7724 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
The topic is Livonia opting out of SMART. You stated "THIS thread, however, is about the bus system, which we've opted to get rid of." Surely you can see where you are incorrect about the term 'we'. Last I checked Royal Oak did not vote to opt out of SMART and the vote for Livonia to otp out came after you moved out of your mother's home. If you are stating 'we' is a group of anti-bus people you have not clarified that anywhere in this thread about Livonia opting out. Maybe I'm giving you too much credit. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 210 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 24.169.224.43 |
Thanks Janesback. Unfortunately, that isn't possible around here. People normally play the race card as a last resort, but for many posters here, that's ALL they know how to do. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7725 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
Seems to me that it has been awhile since race has been brought up on this thread. As a rule of thumb ignore Danny's comments and there have been very little discussion of race on this thread recently. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 256 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 207.61.38.86 |
Well the rest of Western Wayne can thank Livonia for one thing. The western suburbs are getting better bus service thanks to Livonia opting out and the extra buses that will be around. The new services also will include express service to downtown Detroit. I want to make one comment about the express service. The new revised Park and Ride that will be bypassing Livonia, should charge an extra fare to any Livonia residents who board that bus in Redford or any neighbouring suburb. Because we all know Livonia residents who use that service, will be driving over to Redford to catch that bus. And well there should be an extra charge to those residents since their suburb does not want to fund it. | ||
Alsodave Member Username: Alsodave Post Number: 753 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.221.73.69 |
Of course, then there's people who play the "they're playing the race card" card. Welcome to the forum, Janesback. Threads tend to veer on and off topic; it is part of the DY charm | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7726 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
IN the defense of the people from Livonia that use the bus the vote was pretty close. That means that 40+% voted for staying in SMART. You can't penalize those that need the service because of their neighbors. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 211 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 24.169.224.43 |
JT1: I grew up in Livonia and I still work here (posting from Livonia right now), and though I moved to Royal Oak a year ago, I'm still deeply rooted in the city. So I still consider myself a part of the city. Hope that helps. Everyone else seems to have understood it ok. (Yes, I can act like I'm all-knowing and insult your intelligence too.) | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7727 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
The fact of the matter is that working in Livonia does not give you a vote. You are not part of the 'we' if you can not vote in the city. Seems like a pretty simple concept to me. | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 248 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 71.65.11.152 |
The opinions and words of Thejesus our any others do not necessarily represent the opinions of Thnk2mch. | ||
Janesback Member Username: Janesback Post Number: 3 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 69.153.35.244 |
Thanks guys for the great welcome. I must admit I enjoy the forum, just apprehensive about postings. Its a great site, thanks again for the warm welcome | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7728 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
Janes - Remember, with any size population there will be decent people and assholes. We have our share of both so take them with a grain of salt. I'm sure that I lean more toward the asshole end of it but they are nothing more than words and discussion on a silly internet forum. | ||
Cynknight Member Username: Cynknight Post Number: 75 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.88.110.14 |
It might slow down the bus service, MikeToronto, if people have to get out their ID to show the bus driver so he can charge extra to the few Livonia residents who DO use the bus service. Maybe a scarlet L patch for Livonia residents to wear on their jackets....? Listen, I hope things change and that mass transit would really take hold in our area, but I think that instead of calling residents of Livonia racist or living in Hitlerland, you could just call them CHEAP. That's what my mom does - many of her senior friends vote against anything that would cost them money, no matter how worthwhile it is. And BTW - the same customer base for the new Wal-Mart in Livonia is already at the Target store on Plymouth Road (old Wonderland Mall location) - a store which is clean, very well-run, nice place for all to shop. While the Wal-Mart on Middlebelt/Schoolcraft, when I visited it a year or two ago, was NOT, which the company publicly acknowledged. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 212 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
Thnk2mch: What part of what I said are you referring to? | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 213 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
JT1: You are correct..I will not be elligible to vote in this coming election...but I still have an interest what goes on in the city I spent over 20 years of my life in. | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 250 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 71.65.11.152 |
Thejesus, Just the part where you seemed to include "WE" in most of the above posts, and I do not agree with everything you said. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 214 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
That's what I meant. Was there something specific that you don't agree with? | ||
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72 Post Number: 91 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 66.184.3.44 |
Thejesus, you seem to do alot of bitching about Detroit. One is left to wonder why in the world are you moving here? | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10476 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.37.236 |
Why is this thread still going? Basically, Livonia doesn't want anybody who can't afford to drive a car hanging in their suburb. End of story. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 216 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 24.169.224.43 |
Detroitej72: I could ask the same thing about black Detroiters wanting to take the bus into a suburb that they assert is filled with racist white people. The truth is, I'm moving downtown because I love the downtown area and feel that I can best contribute to Detroit's resurgence by spending a large chunk of my income there by living there. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 217 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 24.169.224.43 |
Supersport: Ignorant comments like the one you just posted are a prime example of why this thread is still going. Livonia is not a wealthy community. It's mostly made up of working class people who simply realized that a good way to cut costs to stop paying for a bus system the residents don't use. It's not Livonia's responsibility to pay the transportation bill of residents of another city. Bus systems are expensive, and Detroiters should, if anything, be greatful that we paid for it for as long as we did. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4800 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
Let's check out some quotes: whoever you are said that "Hitlerland is going to suffer real soon." Somehow, I think we'll manage just fine. LMAO! NO, WHOEVER YOU ARE!!! THANKS TO THE SMART BUS SYSTEM THE JOB BASE IN LIVONIA IS DOING JUST FINE. BUT SINCE YOU ALL RACIST FOLKS IN HITLERLAND SAID TO SMART, " NOT IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD!" SOON THE JOB BASE IN HITLERLAND WILL SLOWLY DISSAPEAR. YES CANTON, NORTHVILLE, PLYMOUTH CITY OPTED OUT SMART BUS SYSTEM YEARS AGO BUT IN RETURN LEAVING A NICE QUITE BEDROOM SIZED COMMUNITY WHERE A LACK OF MANUFACTURING JOB BASE IS ALMOST NON-EXISTANT, FAMILIES DRIVING THEIR GAS GUZZLING CARS, THUS CONTRIBUTING THEMSELVES TO OBESITY AND SUFFER UNDER MEDIA REPORTS THAT GAS PRICES ARE TOO HIGH CUTTING THEIR ERRANDS AND AGENDAS AND VACATIONS SHORT. Udmphikapbob quoted, "You think Livonia is doing just fine, Thejesus? Why has the population declined since 1990? Why are schools closing? The population is old - 26% are over 55. Only 5% are children under 5. There are more people aged 75-84 than there are under 5! Families are moving out, my friend. The city has no room to grow, and its tax base is declining. The housing stock is aging - 83% of homes in Livonia were built before 1980. What does it all mean? Property values aren't going up any more. Families aren't choosing to move to Livonia, because there are fewer jobs. Cutting bus service will only serve to keep businesses from choosing Livonia. Watch, over the next 10 years, as Westland and Canton grow - or should I say continue to grow, and bus service takes workers from Detroit and Dearborn to jobs in those cities. I say' HE'S RIGHT!!! HITLERLAND LIVONIA IS A SUFFERED CITY WITH A POOR SCHOOL DISTRICT, A CASH STRAPPED CITY COUNCIL, A GHETTO LIKE PLYMOUTH RD, BUSINESS CORRIDOR, LOTS OF NEWER MIDDLE CLASS FAMILIES ARE NOT THINKING ABOUT MOVING TO ITS COOKIE CUTTER BRICK RANCH HOMES, MAYBE BLACK-FOLKS WILL. AND A DELCINING PROPERTY TAX BASE. JUST RECENTLY THE FOLKS IN HITLERLAND JUST VOTED NO TO PREVENT A RECALL OF ALL LIVONIA SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS. AND THE POPULATION WENT FROM 100,000 TO 96,000 PEOPLE. IN TEN YEARS HITLERLAND LIVONIA'S POPULATION WILL CONTINUE TO DECLINE TO 80,000 PEOPLE. Whoever who are quote: "All those things you cited are just the natural life cycle of a suburban city. The population is getting older, and the kids who were raised there are adults and are moving to other places." I say, YES BUT HOWEVER, IF A SUBURBAN CITY DOESN'T HAVE A GOOD MANFACTURING JOB BASE, GOOD HOMES, SCHOOLS, PUBLIC COMMUNITY SERVICES AND REGIONAL TRANSIT. THEN THAT NATURAL CYCLE WILL BE BROKEN. MIDDLE CLASS FAMILIES WILL NOT GO INTO THE CITY OR SUBURB INSTEAD THEY WOULD MOVE TO OTHER AREAS WHERE GOOD SCHOOLS, JOBS, TRANSIT ARE AVAILABLE. Andylinn quoted, "THEJESUS - are you wearing sunglasses at night? first of all you say your city is fine with minorities moving in. Remember the uproar last year when WalMart wanted to build a larger store? When I first heard the news, I said "great, finally a progressive community opposing this corporate giant" until i heard commentary from the community leaders opposing the company who said things to the effect of "we don't want the store here because it will bring crime [read: black people] into our city" - bravo livonia. I say, He's RIGHT THOUGH! MAYBE THAT'S THE NEXT REASON THAT OPTING OUT THE SMART BUS FROM HITILERLAND IS A RACE THING, IT'S ALSO A PROPERTY TAX AND " NOT IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD THING." AFTER A NEW SUPER EVIL WAL-MART OPENS IN HILTERLAND, THERE WILL BE AN INFLUX OF NEW BLACK EMPLOYESS COMMING BY CARS OR A PROPOSED D-DOT BUS. BLACK-FOLKS SO FAR ARE NOT IN A INTEREST IN THOSE HITLERLAND NEIGHBORHOODS UNTIL THEY QUICKLY FILLED ALMOST 75% OF SOUTH AND NORTH REDFORD TWP. NEIGHBORHOODS AFTER 2020. BLACK-FOLKS SOME OF THEM ARE FROM DETROIT ARE IN THE STARTING POINT TO MIGRATE TO MOSTLY WHITE SUBURBAN COMMUNITIES AS LONG AS THAT WHITE COMMUNITIES HAS THE REQUIRED SCHOOLS, A LOWER PROPERTY TAX BASE, AND EXCELLENT HOMES. "and thejesus, you're wrong. livonia Is going to suffer real soon. We're all now watching and bracing ourselves for the decline of the inner ring suburbs - so the inner ring suburbs feel the decline that they themselves caused the innercities. Your turn, have fun. the innerring suburbs are, for the most part, shrinking... To halt this decline, the inner ring suburbs need to BAND TOGETHER with DETROIT. We can only survive, stop sprawl, and prosper together... and that starts with a solid regional transit system..." I say, IS MOST OF THE INNER RING SUBURBS THAT BORDER DETROIT ARE IN THE DELCINE? SURELY LOTS OF BLACK-FOLKS FROM DETROIT ARE MAKING THEIR MIGRATION. SOME OF THE INNER RING SUBURBS THAT BORDER DETROIT ARE DOING JUST FINE, TAKE DEARBORN FOR EXAMPLE IN IT'S EASTSIDE ALONG W. WARREN AVE. WHEN THE GERMANS AND ITALIANS SOLD MOST OF THEIR HOMES TO ETHNIC ARAB MUSLIMS, THEIR FOUNDATION IN THEIR HOMES, FAMILIES AND RELIGION CREATE A BETTER COMMUNITIES AND THEY GET ALONG JUST FINE AT THE TIREMAN BORDER OF DETROIT WHERE LOT'S MIDDLE TO LOW INCOME BLACKS LIVE. THE ETHNIC ARAB MUSLIMS IN DEARBORN ARE ACTUALLY BUILDING ETHNIC AND ETHIC BRIDGES TO ENSURE A BETTER COMMUNITY AND IT COULD WORK WITH OTHER DETROIT-SUBURBAN INNER RING AREAS INCLUDING HITLERLAND LIVONIA. Big_daddy quote "Notice is hereby given that two public hearings have been scheduled on September 14, 2006 to consider the following proposals to substantially change or discontinue service on the following bus routes effective November 27, 2006: Route 285 Middlebelt – Orchard Lake: Service in Livonia discontinued. Other route portions replaced with new routes. Route 295 Plymouth Rd: Discontinue service. Route 297 Industrial Dr: Discontinue service. Route 305 Grand River Limited: Discontinue service between 7 Mile and Downtown Detroit. Also discontinue service on Haggerty south of 10 Mile Rd. Route 315 Seven Mile: Discontinue service. Route 410 Woodward – Northland: Discontinue service Routes 415 and 420 Greenfield / Southfield: Discontinue service south of Northland. Routes 810 and 820 Park and Rides: Discontinue service. Replace with new express route serving Farmington, Farmington Hills and Redford Township. SMART Connector service in Livonia will also be discontinued. In addition, alternate small bus service operated according to the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) will be discontinued in areas that no longer have fixed route service." I say, IT'S TRUE THAT HITLERLAND DECISION TO OPT OUT SMART WILL CAUSE BUS ROUTES LIKE #285 Middlebelt, #295 Plymouth, #297 Industrial and #315 7 Mile and Park and Rides #810 and #820 to be dicontinued BUT SMART SHOULD HAVE NO RIGHT TO REDUCE BUS SERVICE FOR #415, #420 Greenfield from Joy Rd. or discontinued service for #410 Woodward to Northland Mall. RIDESHIP FOR #410 WOODWARD AVE. TO NORTHLAND MALL HAS BEEN INCREASED IN THE PAST 4 YEARS STRAIGHT TO RELIEVE RIDERSHIP CONGESTION. SO LET'S PUT THAT IN THAT SMART BOARD MEETING, AFTER ALL WE VOTED ON THE MILLAGE TO SAVE YOUR JOBS AND SAVE OURS. WE EXPECT THOSE ROUTES IN RETURN FOR THE PEOPLE, NOT WHAT'S GOOD FOR SOCIETY. jtl quoted, "Draw your own conlcusions but it appears to me that Livonia is an aging city in terms of infrastructure and population. Both lead me to believe that they should be working together with the city and otehr inner rings to make the inner ring part of SEM more viable for investment and future residents as opposed to putting themselves on an island." YOUR RIGHT ON THE MONEY JTL, NOT ONLY HITLERLAND IS AGING, BUT OTHER INNER RING SUBURBS, TOO. MOVING FAR AWAY TO MIDDLE OF NOWHERESVILLE IS NOT THE SOLUTION FROM THE PROBLEMS FROM THE INNER CITY. THE GHETTOMAN EVEN QUOTE THIS TO ME AND STREET PHOPHETS "IF THE WHITE-FOLKS DON'T COME DETROIT TO HELP THE INFRASTURE, DETROIT WILL COME TO THEM" THAT QUOTE WAS A OFFSHOOT TO HIS BLACK/WHITE COMMUNITY MIGRATION LAW. " IF THE WHITE FOLKS DON'T COME TO THE BLACK-FOLKS, THE BLACK-FOLKS WILL COME TO WHITE-FOLKS WITH CIRCUMSTANCES OR CONSEQUENCES" AND THE SAME GOES WITH HIS THEOREM. HITLERLAND LIVONIA DON'T NEED TO BE ISOLATED FROM THE REGIONAL LAND NEITHER DOES ANY TRI-COUNTY SUBURBS. | ||
Big_daddy Member Username: Big_daddy Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 208.39.169.33 |
Danny quoted "IT'S TRUE THAT HITLERLAND DECISION TO OPT OUT SMART WILL CAUSE BUS ROUTES LIKE #285 Middlebelt, #295 Plymouth, #297 Industrial and #315 7 Mile and Park and Rides #810 and #820 to be dicontinued BUT SMART SHOULD HAVE NO RIGHT TO REDUCE BUS SERVICE FOR #415, #420 Greenfield from Joy Rd. or discontinued service for #410 Woodward to Northland Mall. RIDESHIP FOR #410 WOODWARD AVE. TO NORTHLAND MALL HAS BEEN INCREASED IN THE PAST 4 YEARS STRAIGHT TO RELIEVE RIDERSHIP CONGESTION. SO LET'S PUT THAT IN THAT SMART BOARD MEETING, AFTER ALL WE VOTED ON THE MILLAGE TO SAVE YOUR JOBS AND SAVE OURS. WE EXPECT THOSE ROUTES IN RETURN FOR THE PEOPLE, NOT WHAT'S GOOD FOR SOCIETY." I say "It appears SMART is discontinueing the south portion (south of 8 Mile) of the 415/420 and turning both routes east down 8 Mile to Woodward then to Downtown. This will replace the 410. The south Greenfield will be picked up by DDOT. SMART would have no connection off the old 415/420 to any routes due to Livonia opting out." | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 188 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
I think it's great that DDOT will continue a bus line into Livonia. I'm quite confident that Livonia will opt back in but we need to connect our area as a region more and get more industry support for SMART and DDOT, to convince Livonia voters to come back. Remember, 45 per cent of us voted to keep SMART and I published an editorial urging the voters to keep SMART. Also my website was in favor of keeping SMART. Check out the new updates to reflect recent passage of the SMART tax. It's important to keep the SMART system complete to attract more riders and help bring good jobs to our region as I'm sure all TRU members will want at their next meeting with SMART officials. So, please keep the posts coming and remember that if all of us just use SMART once that the money lost from Livonia will come back in farebox money. Then SMART can buy a few more buses to try and get Livonia back. Yes, I need your support by helping me help SMART get more money from many revenues sources because I can't bring the buses back by myself. Thanks for the posts so far (Message edited by Trainman on August 20, 2006) |
