Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning July 2006 » Two Good Enviro Movies out. « Previous Next »
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 4141
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 71.193.193.49
Posted on Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

See these movies about pollution and cars.

"Who Killed the Electric Car?"

"An Inconvenient Truth", the Al Gore movie.

Both of these movies feature Detroit themes.
Have you seen them?

jjaba thinks they are worth watching.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 60
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 63.85.13.248
Posted on Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 4:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I saw who killed, I like the battery/solar roof guy from Troy, he's my kind of people.
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Wolverine
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Username: Wolverine

Post Number: 182
Registered: 04-2004
Posted From: 64.7.170.83
Posted on Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 4:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just saw the preview of "Who killed the Electric Car." Looks interesting, I'll have to check it out.
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The_aram
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Username: The_aram

Post Number: 4998
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.41.124.8
Posted on Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 4:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Back when I was in elementary school, it was at the very beginning of the electric car movement and we had this project we were working on with some people from the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers, right?). They'd come every week and help us build these little milkbox cars. One week, they brought an electric car to school and let us take a look at it. I thought it was the coolest thing I'd ever seen. And, sure enough, it's the cars they're talking about in the electric car film. I know it wasn't the most convenient of technologies, but kind of sad that it just died like that.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 4142
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 71.193.193.49
Posted on Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 7:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Aram is going 5,000 posts on us. Aram, give jjaba your email for your reward, mailed to you.
Saalam Alekem. Mazel tov. Congratulations.

jjaba.
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Cjdb16
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Username: Cjdb16

Post Number: 134
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.74.0.204
Posted on Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"An Inconvenient Truth" is a remarkable film that EVERYONE should see.

Has anyone changed their behavior as a result of seeing these films? I am trying, really I am...

Has anyone seen the eco V electric car driving around Grosse Pointe?
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Swiburn
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Username: Swiburn

Post Number: 5
Registered: 07-2006
Posted From: 35.12.24.131
Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 11:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And two good books on Michigan's environment are:
"Ruin and Recovery"(a history of the environment in Michigan) and "On the Brink-the Great Lakes in Peril", both by Dave Dempsey.
Both are easy,timely, and fascinating reads.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 4159
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 71.193.193.49
Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 4:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Swiburn, welcome to The Forum. Thanks for the books.
jjaba, Far Westsider.
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Hysteria
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Username: Hysteria

Post Number: 955
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Speaking of Michigan's environment -

The newest update to a Lake Erie management plan predicts global warming will lead to a steep drop in water levels over the next 64 years, a change that could cause the lake's surface area to shrink by up to 15%.

The drop could undo years of shoreline abuse by allowing water to resume the natural coastal circulation that has become blocked by structures, experts said.

Updated annually, the plan is required by the Great Lakes Water Quality Agreement between the United States and Canada. It is developed by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Environment Canada and state and local governments with help from the shipping industry, sports-fishing operators, farm interests, academics and environmental organizations.

The update, prepared last spring and reported last week in the Cleveland Plain Dealer, addresses for the first time, when, where and how the shoreline will be reshaped. It says the water temperature of Lake Erie has increased by one degree since 1988 and predicts the lake's level could fall about 34 inches.

If the projections are accurate, Lake Erie would be reduced by one-sixth by late this century, exposing nearly 2,200 square miles of land and creating marshes, prairies, beaches and forests, researchers said.

"There is now stronger evidence than ever of human-induced climate change," the report says.

"We can try to be positive about climate change, really positive," said Jeff Tyson, a senior fisheries biologist at the Ohio Department of Natural Resources, who helped write a portion of the management plan.

"If it continues to be hot, once you lose that meter of water over the top, we get an entirely natural, new shoreline along a lot of the lakefront. If we manage it right, things could look a lot like they did when the first white settlers arrived."

The report was written in an effort to spark thought about what the shoreline could become, said Jan Ciborowski, a professor at the University of Windsor who specializes in aquatic ecology and also helped write the plan.

"There is a lot of opinion among scientists who study the Great Lakes that we need to get the public to start thinking: 'What are things going to look like?' " Ciborowski said.

The plan monitors issues ranging from pollution to invasive species, said Dan O'Riordan, an EPA manager at the Great Lakes National Program Office in Chicago. He said the agency recognizes the views of experts who predict the lake will shrink.

"They've done the math," he said. "I would trust the math."



http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060730/NEW S06/607300610
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Swiburn
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Username: Swiburn

Post Number: 6
Registered: 07-2006
Posted From: 35.10.67.132
Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 11:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A professional's blog on the Great Lakes and the water stealing by Wisconsin: http://www.davedempsey.org Click on the "journal" and it's excellent coverage of the theft of the state's water by Nestle and Wisconsin.
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Arcas
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Username: Arcas

Post Number: 8
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 141.217.224.84
Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I didn't even realize "Who Killed the Electric Car" was already playing in our area. Thanks for the info, I'll have to track it down.

Hopefully the Detroit Film Theater will pick up both of these films in its new season this fall. And hopefully Escape from Suburbia as well.

Also, anyone who hasn't yet seen "The End of Suburbia" can catch it next month (8/12) at the Detroit Flm Center.

---------------------

Other things:

We had a thread from last week discussing some of these issues, if anyone is interested.

The two part documentary "The Sprawling of America" from Great Lakes Television is a nice companion to "The End of Suburbia," since they all are somewhat related. You can still watch part 1: "Inner City Blues" and part 2: "The Fat of the Land" for free through streaming video on their website.

Some months back, someone posted this link as a "sort of GM-reply" to "Who Killed the Electric Car" (Sorry I can't give proper credit, I can't remember exactly who it was.) Here is the link: http://fyi.gmblogs.com/2006/06 /who_ignored_the_facts_about_t h.html

Tesla Motors: http://www.teslamotors.com
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 78
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 63.85.13.248
Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 1:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Look at the bright side of Lake Erie shrinking;

Cedar Point will expand!!
You can drive to Put-In-Bay!! No more peskey fuel wasting ferries full of garishly dressed drunkards.
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Pacypacy_
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Username: Pacypacy_

Post Number: 258
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 69.14.237.82
Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 6:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Global warming, as well as Al Gore is nonsense. I guess if it wasn't for Al Gore though I wouldn't be posting this since he also claims to have invented the internet.
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Tigers2005
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Username: Tigers2005

Post Number: 99
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 68.61.252.136
Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 7:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lake St. Clair will be reduced to a river between the St. Clair and Detroit Rivers.
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Hysteria
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Username: Hysteria

Post Number: 983
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 8:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pacypacy_, I agree with you.

Heaven Forbid!
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Pacypacy_
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Username: Pacypacy_

Post Number: 261
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 69.14.237.82
Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 11:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WOW! Two people agreeing with me on different topics on the same day! ;-)
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Thewack
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Username: Thewack

Post Number: 205
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.68.167.226
Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 11:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wish Global Warming was nonsense, but I just can't bury my head in the sand. Look at the scientfic data. It is easier for people to deny that Global Warming exists, than it is to accept we have a global problem that we urgently need to address.
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Pacypacy_
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Username: Pacypacy_

Post Number: 263
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 69.14.237.82
Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Legitimate scientists, not enviro-wacko agenda driven pseudo-scientists, can not establish any credible scientific data to support global warming any more than they could global cooling 20 years ago.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 4165
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 71.193.193.49
Posted on Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 4:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pacypacy, have you seen the Al Gore movie? What are your impressions?
He seems convincing and is packing the houses. Are we all just sheep?
jjaba.
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Chitaku
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Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 609
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 69.136.147.97
Posted on Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 4:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Even if Global WArming isn't an issue, I sure as hell don't want to be breathing in dirty shit for the rest of my life. It shoud take more than a threat of global warming to get people to change their ways. I moved close to work and school so I wouldn't have to use a car as often.
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Baltgar
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Username: Baltgar

Post Number: 16
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 67.38.83.5
Posted on Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 5:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pacy and Hysteria:

Before you go popping off about global climate change why don't you do some research into the matter? Well...since you are too lazy or ignorant to handle a simple task I'll present the facts for you.
-------

The overwhelming majority of scientists are in agreement about the following fundamental assertions: 1) the world has been warming and will continue to warm for the foreseeable future, 2) the warming is largely due to human activity (burning fossil fuel - oil, coal and gas - and destroying forests), and 3) the consequences of rising temperature, in all projected futures, are grave enough to warrant global action.

How do we know this? In 1988 the U.N. established the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). This is a body of over 2000 scientists and experts from around the world who gather periodically to review the existing peer-reviewed literature of the relevant science. The skeptical scientists, by the way, are invited and are even among the lead authors of working groups. The summary documents are reviewed word for word, with industry and skeptics in the room. The IPCC's methods are rigorously fair to dissent, and incomparably thorough. The IPCC only began to assert the fundamentals in 1995 and since then has increased the conviction of the wording in its summary statements.

To add to this unprecedented overall agreement of the world's scientists, a statement endorsing the legitimacy of the process and the conclusions of the IPCC has been signed by 16 national scientific societies (http://www.royalsoc.ac.uk/poli cy/index.html -> Search: IPCC -> The Science of Climate Change):

----

This is only a sample of the evidence that exists that LEGITIMATE scientists are in agreement about the presence and problems of global warming.

If you need more information visit the website of the Union of Concerned Scientists.
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Hysteria
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Username: Hysteria

Post Number: 1004
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's really neat. Thanks
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 4168
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 71.193.193.49
Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 12:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Baltgar tells it like it tis.
Welcome to The Forum.

jjaba, Westside asthmatic.
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Michael
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Username: Michael

Post Number: 758
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.248.89.159
Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 12:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Legitimate scientists, not enviro-wacko agenda driven pseudo-scientists, can not establish any credible scientific data to support global warming any more than they could global cooling 20 years ago.




how about good old farmers, their almanac and evaporation tables that show the flip side of global warming, which is global dimming. I don't recall global cooling.

here's some more reading for you...

global dimming
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Jimg
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Username: Jimg

Post Number: 674
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 7:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bill Bryson, in his book A Short History Of Nearly Everything, asserts that we are actually in the middle of an ice age, and we've been overdue to warm up for some time. Our planet is normally much warmer. And scientists aren't really sure why this hot/cold cycle happens, or what triggers it.

What I realized after reading his book (I've read it twice, so far) is that 100, or 1,000 years ain't shit in geologic terms. The evidence right now shows the earth is warming. OK, but the forces at work may far exceed our little efforts...
PS - want to know the one thing all species that ever lived on this planet have in common? Extinction, baby...
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Nainrouge
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Username: Nainrouge

Post Number: 50
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 209.104.146.146
Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I went to see "Who killed the electric car" and can recommend it. Expect to have a tear in your eye for the EV1 funeral. It really made me curious as to why GM was so scared of the EV1. You can argue back and forth forever (trust me, I have done so) about whether the EV1 was a commercially viable product or not, but why take almost new cars out of the hands of people who love them and want to buy them, take them out and crush them? The buyers did not care if they were warrantied or not. They did not care if GM would be supplying parts and maintenance in the future. They were willing to sign waivers for whatever goofy excuse that GM could come up with not to sell these cars.
Why are the only surviving EV1 in museums (and then only after they had been disabled by GM so that they will never be able to run)?
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 2029
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 129.9.163.105
Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 1:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are federal regulations in place that protect the end users of vehicles. A corporation is required to supply replacement parts for a certain number of years. They would also be liable for all safety and environmental issues those vehicles created. If the vehicles had been allowed to remain in service, GM would have lost many more millions of dollars supporting them.

It was cheaper to recall and kill them than leave them on the roads. They didn't make enough of them to support the ongoing costs that those vehicles would have created just by there continued existence.

(Message edited by ndavies on August 03, 2006)
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Nainrouge
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Username: Nainrouge

Post Number: 51
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 209.104.146.146
Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That makes sense. But why disable the museum pieces?

Also, I own a Ford Ranger EV and can't get parts for it. Was Ford somehow exempt from this ruling?

Just for verification - do you know where I could find this ruling (that manufacturers must supply parts for a certain number of years)? I am not trying to be a pain, I am just curious to see the wording and the number of years that they are required to supply parts for.
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 2034
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 129.9.163.233
Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know if there is a specific regulation that states a duration. I believe it is a byproduct of the FMVSS regulations for the support of emission and safety systems.
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Nainrouge
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Username: Nainrouge

Post Number: 52
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 209.104.146.146
Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 4:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nothing there: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/ rules/import/FMVSS/index.html
Are you sure of your statement?
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 2058
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 129.9.163.233
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 3:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.thecarconnection.co m/Auto_News/Green_Machines/Wit zenburg_What_Really_Killed_the _EV1.S196.A10735.html


quote:

I understand why those who had EV1s loved them and hated to give them up. And I understand why GM could not risk leaving potentially dangerous 312-volt cars out there as they aged, nor commit to providing parts and service for years to come, as required by law.


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Nainrouge
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Username: Nainrouge

Post Number: 54
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 209.104.146.146
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 4:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Written by a spokesperson from GM... I am still looking for the legal language. I am also wondering why GM did release the electric S-10. You can buy a used one here http://evbones.com
Are these any less "dangerous" than the EV1? Is there no requirement to provide parts for the S-10?

Maybe there was a conspiracy. Think "Preston Tucker".

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