  Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 984 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.21.40.65 |
"BY JOHN GALLAGHER FREE PRESS DEVELOPMENT WRITER Mae Straass, 87, of Dearborn was so tickled by the news about the Book-Cadillac Hotel renovation that she called a newspaper reporter to say so. Straass honeymooned at the Book-Cadillac back in 1938. And, like thousands of Detroiters, she cherishes memories of celebrating a milestone there: a wedding, bar mitzvah, retirement or graduation. But if most of the calls and e-mails about the rescue of the Book-Cadillac were in that celebratory vein, a surprising number were negative. Not to put too fine a point on this, but a lot of readers think the deal stinks." http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20060708/BUSINES S04/607080320 Interesting read... | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 114 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 68.40.195.233 |
I think, as does the writer of the article, that the only MAJORLY valid complaint here is that those who have stuck by the city for years get a little forgotten... I.E. the city shelled out big bucks for compuware, will, if it comes to fruition, financially compensate Rock Financial, but where's the money for, say Miller Canfield, the states largest and oldest law firm, who employs HUNDREDs of workers in the city, has resisted leaving (even though it seems many of the attorneys want to leave), and gives to charities and institutions fairly generously? | ||
Drm Member Username: Drm Post Number: 1011 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.255.239.23 |
Miller Canfield doesn't own property in the CBD. If they did, there is money they could access. Also, I'm sure that Miller Canfield benefitted at least indirectly from the incentives given to John Madden to build 150 W. Jefferson. If I'm not mistaken, Miller Canfield was the first tenant in the building. I have to believe that Madden gave them a sweetheart deal to entice the move. | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 117 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 68.40.195.233 |
i'll find out and post the answer here. i didn't know that madden built that schitt... I remember when they moved... what was it, 1989 or so? | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 508 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 35.12.22.148 |
The people complaining about the Book-Cadillac deal would probably also complain if nothing was being done with the building. BTW, when is construction going to start? Kwame claimed at the 6/30 press conference that workers would be starting last week. | ||
Llyn Member Username: Llyn Post Number: 1595 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 68.61.197.206 |
Don't know the answer to that question Burnsie... ...but one thing about new projects downtown... they do benefit everyone to some degree. More people and more activity means more restaurants and hotel rooms filled. Entertainment also benefits and provides benefits in return. More activity downtown means its easier to retain employees who see more benefit to working downtown. More people working downtown means more people living downtown. Available cash for overall business improvement increases. The article does make a valid point - but those who only see a negative side to support for new business are short sighted. Can you imagine what downtown would be like for existing businesses if none of these projects were being done? | ||
Drm Member Username: Drm Post Number: 1012 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.255.239.23 |
Andylinn, it looks like Miller Canfield has a lot of attorneys in Troy and Ann Arbor. If they were to bring these workers to the CBD, I wonder what incentives would be available. I imagine there's gotta be something, especially if they built a new building. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1756 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 70.225.119.153 |
In addition to DRM's post about Miller Canfield not owning property in the City, I'd also like to point out that Miller Canfield got a sizable amount of legal work from the B-C deal. | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 681 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.214.106 |
I like this article... Gallagher makes some very good points that are usually overlooked by the media.
AMEN! The "downtown" development vs "neighborhood" development debate makes no sense. Try to put a stadium, racetrack, or casino in a Detroit "neighborhood" and the residents will fight against it, but if it gets built downtown, they will complain about the investment not going to the "neighborhoods". Outside of the high profile downtown developments, much of the development IS happening in the "neighborhoods". There has been a shitload of new developments on the far east side over the last few years. Jefferson Village houses and shopping center, new condos and retail at Riverbend, infill housing on the far east side, new shopping centers near Mack and Alter, etc. The eastside area along I75 has a new American Axle HQ, expanded Bing facilities, and a new FED campus. These are all big projects done in the "neighborhoods". Detroiters need to stop thinking of new development as an 'either-or' situation. The construction of a downtown stadium or office building doesn't happen instead of "neighborhood" development, just like "neighborhood" developments don't happen instead of downtown developments. As a long-time downtown resident, I am tired of hearing the downtown vs "neighborhood" complaints. It may come as a surprise to some Detroiters, but downtown IS a neighborhood, and we have to deal with most of the same shit as everybody else in the city. Fuck all the eastside-westside-downtown-nei ghborhood bullshit. Anything that is good for Detroit has my support. | ||
Broken_main Member Username: Broken_main Post Number: 1146 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.222.11.226 |
Priceless!!! Good point Erikd | ||
Naturalsister Member Username: Naturalsister Post Number: 754 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.30.202.62 |
Here, here! later - naturalsister | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 6304 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.136.149.133 |
Gallagher might have mentioned that the City didn't contribute any taxpayer to the deal. The DDA gave them a loan, but that's a different deal entirely. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 6305 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.136.149.133 |
Gallagher might have mentioned that the City didn't contribute any taxpayer funds to the deal. The DDA gave them a loan, but that's a different animal entirely. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1427 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 68.255.232.209 |
People make Neighborhoods not the city government. You want your area to improve take pride in it. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1764 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 70.236.147.219 |
_sj_: You're particially correct. People do make the neighborhoods, but city govenment plays an important role in providing basic city services (police, fire, etc.). Unfortunately, Detroit hasn't been doing a very good job of that and the neighborhoods are suffering as a result. I discussed this in one of my blog posts - http://warrendale.blogspot.com /2006/07/annoyed-with-9-1-1.ht ml However, since no resources were diverted away from the neighborhoods for the B-C, that argument of it hurting neighborhoods is unfounded. In fact, I would argue that the B-C makes neighborhoods stronger because of the jobs and tax revenue that it creates for the city as a whole. | ||
Ron Member Username: Ron Post Number: 206 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 66.174.79.229 |
Erikd, Great point. I remember when KMart was first proposing the store on 7 Mile and Meyers. EVERYONE in the neighborhood was pissed because of the traffic, etc. It finally got done, and closed several years later. So when there is development downtown, people are pissed, and when there is development in the neighborhoods, people are pissed. The sad fact is that most people are going to be pissed no matter what is done. Not to mention, it is easier to get your 15 minutes of fame if you are bi***ing about something rather than trying to work and do something positive. There are simply too many obstructionists that are being given credibility by the media. | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 3321 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.252.6.152 |
Will these 'Obstructionists' be blamed if the Project fails? The BC development is now a 'trickle' effect for Detroit? This is difficult to believe, since all other projects have not had that effect from the CBD. Then there is is this line in the article; The free market for years refused to support redevelopment in the city. The free market has been absence in SE Michigan for two or more decades. Tax incentives have played a primary role in all large developments. Its a tangled web and if this writer had any common sense or sense at all he would be able to be more objective. But then all development in the CBD is politically based. That is why KC had to leave. The DDA spends tax dollars. They do not generate any revenue on their own. If you get rid of the DDA you could get rid of the Detroit Budget deficits. That is why many Detoit residents object to the focus on the CBD with development. Also the DDA has provided loans in the past. But they do not give the interest back to the city. They are basically a money laundering org that provides tax dollars to political development deals. Now its being said that all of the BC won't be developed. Interesting... No one said why? No one wants to ask why? | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 511 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 35.12.19.233 |
"Now its being said that all of the BC won't be developed." Who's saying that? | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 255 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 69.212.35.13 |
M-C represented Madden in the Madden Bldg deal; rumor was they took their fees in rent credits, but I'm not sure about that. The Madden Bldg (150 Jefferson Bldg) was one of the great real estate debacles in Detroit in many years (maybe, but hopefully not, to be surpassed by the B-C deal.) Madden made all kinds of funny money deals to get tenants in there (Smith Hinchmen, Butzel-Long ad nauseaum) and the lender forclosed soon after completion. The lender, Bank of Boston, and 23 bank particpants, lost a little over $40,000,000 in the deal and the City lost at least $7,500,000. Madden had a takeout - the State of Michigan had agreeed to buy the building for one of its pension funds, through its pension advisor, Lehndorff of Dallas -- but backed out of the deal when it became apparent the deal would tank. Detroit real estate. Usually, not very pretty. Per a friend involved in the B-C deal (a banker), all of the paperwork was signed a week ago last Friday. No announcement, however. Must be some significant post-closing hangups (or, routine follow-up stuff.) Maybe Ferchill didn't/wasn't able to come up w/ its $3,000,000 equity. The saga continues. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 256 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 69.212.35.13 |
M-C represented Madden in the Madden Bldg deal; rumor was they took their fees in rent credits, but I'm not sure about that. The Madden Bldg (150 Jefferson Bldg) was one of the great real estate debacles in Detroit in many years (maybe, but hopefully not, to be surpassed by the B-C deal.) Madden made all kinds of funny money deals to get tenants in there (Smith Hinchmen, Butzel-Long ad nauseaum) and the lender forclosed soon after completion. The lender, Bank of Boston, and 23 bank particpants, lost a little over $40,000,000 in the deal and the City lost at least $7,500,000. Madden had a takeout - the State of Michigan had agreeed to buy the building for one of its pension funds, through its pension advisor, Lehndorff of Dallas -- but backed out of the deal when it became apparent the deal would tank. Detroit real estate. Usually, not very pretty. Per a friend involved in the B-C deal (a banker), all of the paperwork was signed a week ago last Friday. No announcement, however. Must be some significant post-closing hangups (or, routine follow-up stuff.) Maybe Ferchill didn't/wasn't able to come up w/ its $3,000,000 equity. The saga continues. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 257 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 69.212.35.13 |
Sorry about the double post (A post so nice, I posted it twice.) | ||
Vandykenjefferson Member Username: Vandykenjefferson Post Number: 12 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 71.159.22.4 |
I believe that both the author, and andylinn, miss the point of inticing new business. When you bring in a new company or group, their presence will create demand for the products/services or other companies. I.E. When compuware arrived, Miller Canfield picked up some cases, Union Street Deli got a catering contract, ect. Rather than get a piece of the tax credits, these companies got $$$ from having more companies around... | ||
Dalangdon Member Username: Dalangdon Post Number: 38 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 66.54.213.11 |
Unless I'm missing something (always a distinct possibility) the tax credits do not extend to the room tax and the sales tax this hotel will generate. If the hotel is even reasonably successful, that will add to the tax revenue downtown. Also, it seems like the reason the hotel came into public ownership in the first place is because whoever owned it was not paying their property tax - so it wasn't generating any revenue while it sat there deteriorating, so there's no loss there, if property taxes are waived for a time. If nothing else, a renovated and functioning Book-Cadillac hotel should create more money for neighborhood development. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 1008 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.231.189.137 |
Correct, there is still the room and sales tax on each customer at the hotel. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 258 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 69.212.35.13 |
History: Bank of the Commonwealth (remember it?) made a loan on the B-C. It went into default. BOC forclosed and took title in a wholly owned subsidiary. Five Detroit banks then made a $6,000,000 loan to the BOC sub (90% guaranteed by the Feds), and the money was spent converting part of the hotel to offices, and upgrading some rooms, banquet facilities etc. Like pissing in the ocean. The loan was never repaid and we taxpayers took the hit. With this new deal, that taxpayer bailout appears to have been the first of many; it should be re-named the "Taxpayer Hotel." Anyway, BOC never paid any of the taxes, and it failed as well; it was the 1st FDIC takeover. The FDIC "sold" the bank to Chase Manhattan, which was to run it for a maximum of 2 years and then resell it after getting the bank on solid footings (w/ taxpayer money.) Chase looked at the B-C "asset," said "no thanks," and the State took the B-C over for non-pmt of taxes, which no one bought. So, it reverted as a matter of law to a state agency which could not sell it for any price after which it reverted to the municipality in which it is located, good ol Detroit. Detroit was in much better shape financially and in every other was at the time (early '70's.) How's this new deal ever going to work today? [Chase sold the bank to the James T. Barnes family, which in turn sold it to Saudi businessman/crook Gaith Pharon, who owned the bank for a while before he lost it. The bank was then liquidated as I recall.] Sad, but true. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 6319 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
Detroit was in much better shape financially and in every other was at the time (early '70's.) How's this new deal ever going to work today? Pity you weren't there at the closing, shouting, "No! No you idiots!" Could have saved a lot of people a lot of money that way. | ||
Dalangdon Member Username: Dalangdon Post Number: 39 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 66.54.213.11 |
The 80's era scheme to "convert" half the existing hotel rooms to office space for non-profits was extremely dubious. It was "redevlopment" on the cheap, and probably never intended to be anything but some sort of cover for financial shenaningans. I can't imagine a scenario where mixed use office and hotel space - particularly high-end hotel space - can coexist without significant alterations to the building. They are two entirely different functions with very different populations and needs. Secondly, that plan ignored the fact that the existing hotel rooms were ridiculously small, and nothing a modern traveller would be interested in. The B-C was built in the heyday of the "travelling businessman" who would be happy with a twin bed and a private toilet - in fact, that was fairly luxurious for its time. New York hotels can still get away with that, but there's noplace else in this country that can pull that off, and get top dollar for their rooms. Thirdly, the 80's B-C plan was hatched at at time when the entire hotel industry was going through an upheaval that it hadn't seen since the great depression. That decade saw major consolidations, bankruptcies, and restructuring. Even in good times, no chain would want to take on an elderly hotel with a failing physical plant, with half of the rooms half-heartedly converted to office space. With no chain affiliation, there's no way that a major downtown hotel can succeed. The overhead marketing costs (reservations, advertising, group sales, etc) of a stand alone hotel are just too great. The new B-C financing plan is much more realistic: It creates essentially a totally new physical plant, increases the average room size, secures a reputable management company, and - if they sell - establishes a permanent residence community in the condo portion. In my mind, there's just no comparison. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 259 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 69.212.35.13 |
Itsjeff: You're right. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 512 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 35.8.219.161 |
"Per a friend involved in the B-C deal (a banker), all of the paperwork was signed a week ago last Friday. No announcement, however." Was the announcement at the DAC with Ferchill and Kilpatrick not sufficient? | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1777 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.212.48.89 |
Burnsie: I was wondering the same thing. | ||
Drm Member Username: Drm Post Number: 1015 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.255.239.23 |
Why was Madden unable to pay his loans? Did the project cost more than anticipated? Did Madden spend too much in concessions to attract tenants? Was there no demand for Class A office space in the CBD? After the 150 "debacle" how did 500 Woodward (One Detroit Center) get financing? If I remember correctly, Wells recently acquired the 150 W. Jefferson building for close to $100 million cash. That would seem to indicate that maybe it didn't turn out to be such a "debacle" after all. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 6323 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.136.149.133 |
Shush, Drm. 3rdworld says the building was a failure and that's that. I am sorry to hear 3rdworld say that the BC is going to fail. I had high hopes. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 261 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 208.54.95.129 |
DRM: I'm not aware that 150 ever sold for for $100,000,000 "cash" but if it did it's still a huge debacle. To sell 10+ years after construction for $20,000,000 less than it cost to build fits my definition of "debacle" any day. Ask Bank of Boston (and its participants), which lost at least $40,000,000 on the deal, and the City, which saw a $7,500,000 loan wiped out, or Madden, whether it was a debacle. Madden lost the building for all the reasons you mentioned, but the primary one was that there was insufficient demand for class A office space in Detroit AT RENTS NEEDED TO MAKE THE DEAL PROFITABLE. How did 500 Woodward get built? Here's how. And for this deal, we should capitalize DEBACLE. Hines put the deal together with financing committed by Dresdner Bank of Germany. The bank woke up in time and pulled out of the deal, realizing the deal would be an economic failure. The mayor, CAY as I recall, started pulling strings and coerced Detroit Edison, MI Bell, and at least one other heavyweight local utility to pre-lease large blocks of space in the too-be-built building at far above any conceivable market rents at the time. The idea was that once the building was built the market for the space would be there at the committed rents. Of course that never (to this day) happened and those folks, Edison et al, became in effect "accomodation guarantors" of the loan who would be liable to a lender in the event of default as a result of their obligation to pay rent sufficient to amortize the mortgage. Hines took his new "financing" to other lenders and that's how the deal got built. I wonder how those losses affected our utility rates. Anyway, those "tenants" ended up subletting their space for far less that they were (and still are) obligated to pay, thereby incurring substantial losses, some of which are ongoing today. Do you think Comerica, a sub-tenant, is paying the same rent the tenant is paying? Not by a long shot. Anothger financial, funny-money DEBACLE if there ever was one. Itsjeff: You seem to be making some enemies on these threads, or at least people who don't think very highly of your grammar or analytical skills. Not I however, who think you're way up there in the "smarts" category. However, I did not say the the B-C "was" a failure, I predict that it will be a financial failure. I hope it's not. The real risk here is not the money that's going to be lost (luckily, no widows or orphans in the deal), it's the hit to Detroit's reputation as a place where successful financial deals can be done. Detroit's image in the national finance (real estate especially) scene is dogshit. How many national lenders are making conventional real estate loans here? I can't think of one. I know mortgage bankers that won't even submit a Detroit deal to a national lender. Itsjeff, I'm sure glad you have "high hopes." Try taking those to the bank. Burnsie: I've been out of town quite a bit and was not aware that an announcement that the deal actually was signed up had been made. Are you sure about that? Any idea when construction will start if it hasn't already? | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
3rdworld, yes, there was an announcement ceremony at the DAC with Ferchill, Kilpatrick, the governor and a boatload of attorneys. If I think people are behaving badly on the forum, I call them on it. Especially the folks who have absolutely nothing to contribute except to bitch, like Pacy and Dillpickle. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2426 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.105.195 |
3WC, wasn't there also a $24 million UDAG grant or somthing like that, that CAY obtained for the Hines (Comerica) Tower?? | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 516 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 141.216.1.4 |
3rdworldcity: High-profile articles about the June 27 B-C announcement were in the News and Freep. WWJ, WJR, and TV stations also ran reports about it. | ||
Deandub11 Member Username: Deandub11 Post Number: 22 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
yea so again, when is construction going to start? I dont see any movement over there | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 799 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 65.221.183.220 |
Not much going on that is visable, anything at the Fort Shelby?? | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 517 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 141.216.1.4 |
I'll certainly have a queasy, uncertain feeling in my stomach until I hear that things are actually moving at the BC. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
I know how you feel, Burnsie. It's like after reading one of Pacy's posts. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1780 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.212.33.133 |
I doubt it will be a financial failure. Detroit has one of the fastest growing hotel markets in the nation. Add to that the retail & residential components to the deal and you've got a winner.
And how do you suppose that's ever going to change? We need successful deals, like the Book-Cadillac, to get the proverbial ball rolling. | ||
Drm Member Username: Drm Post Number: 1016 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.212.70.253 |
3wc, thanks for the info. One other question, if the "market" won't support new development without creative financing and/or incentives, it seems you would advocate not doing a particular project, or any project for that matter. What are your ideas on how to create a market? Obviously, I'm assuming that leaving the CBD to rot isn't an option. [edit follows] https://www.naiop.org/developmentmag/bigdeal/index.cfm?content=200304.cfm (Message edited by DRM on July 11, 2006) | ||
Deandub11 Member Username: Deandub11 Post Number: 24 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
I don't know if this is significant or not, but I went by Book today again to see if anythign was going on. The gate with the stupid detroit cover that was for the super bowl was open on the north west side. I started to walk in to see if anything was going on and there was a trailer there and a truck or two in back. The security guard stopped me to see what I was up to and I asked if he knew when they were starting to do work. He said, and I quote, "they are doing work right now." There was definitely some sort of activity going on. Like I said I don't know how reliable this all is, but is it possible that they really got started and this is actually going down? | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 87 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 35.8.144.6 |
I saw men with hard hats inside the fence this morning, around 9am. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 527 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 35.12.22.191 |
Any visible work yet? | ||
Wmuchris Member Username: Wmuchris Post Number: 345 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.246.19.24 |
no, just a couple of security guards and a Lincoln Navigator parked inside the gate. Maybe Kwame is checking out the site. | ||
Deandub11 Member Username: Deandub11 Post Number: 26 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
no visible work, but I have seen men walking around the grounds and giving out specs through their radios | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1101 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
A watched crock will never rock. | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 510 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.246.29.185 |
There was some visable work going today. I noticed in back they a few people doing what looked be facade cleaning on a cherry picker. | ||
Dalangdon Member Username: Dalangdon Post Number: 41 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 66.54.213.11 |
Any news on the B-C, folks? :-) | ||
Deandub11 Member Username: Deandub11 Post Number: 34 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
Same as a week ago. The gate is open, the security guard and a truck is there, but I do not really see much activity or any visible work as of now. | ||
Swiburn Member Username: Swiburn Post Number: 2 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 35.10.67.132 |
I certainly hope that this doesn't fall apart in the middle of construction and it turns into a half finished hulk. Also, perhaps the whole project could be turned into condos? I read that the developer is confident about that part of the deal, but is still "iffy" on the success of the hotel operation, i.e can you lure travellers away from the Ritz Carlton and the Townsend Hotels? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7595 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
For events in the city? Absolutely. One issue that downtown faces is that there is no upscale hotel and people go to the Townsend and Ritz-Carlton when their events are downtown. I suspect this will have a larger impact on the business of those 2 places than the other hotels downtown. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 530 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 141.216.1.4 |
"I suspect this will have a larger impact on the business of those 2 places than the other hotels downtown." Yeah, if they ever get the damned thing started. | ||
Dalangdon Member Username: Dalangdon Post Number: 43 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 66.54.213.11 |
It's important to know the distinction between Ritz-Carlton and Westin. Ritz is a luxury hotel. Westin is an upscale business hotel. The lines have blurred a bit since Marriott acquired Ritz, but there is still a big difference in rooms, services, and (most of all) rates. In the scheme of things, Westin ranks higher than Marriott or Sheraton, but is not in the same league as Ritz-Carlton, Four Seasons or Fairmont. Ritz goes after the business traveler, but only the ones with big money. Interjecting a Westin into the mix will probably hurt that business segment for them. That is, as others have observed, they ever finish the Westin :-) | ||
Deandub11 Member Username: Deandub11 Post Number: 36 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
Big activity at Book-Cadillac. Finally some workers, about 3-5 trucks and actual movement. I was getting worried for a minute there. | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 515 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.246.29.185 |
Pacy, Kilpatrick has received similar criticism when he was given the Sambo Award and now Call 'em Out is trying recall Kilpatrick just like with Archer. All three of them have been labeled at one point or another | ||
Deandub11 Member Username: Deandub11 Post Number: 38 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
this discussion is very productive | ||
Designut Member Username: Designut Post Number: 45 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 69.246.46.45 |
I agree with Deandub11 - Glad to hear there's some actual activity there though. A dumpster, a fence, and a ford ranger pickup didn't seem to be cutting it... | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 96 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 35.8.144.6 |
They can start by turning on the light that says Cadillac at the top of the hotel. That would be more exciting than just about anything in this long process. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 532 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 35.12.21.194 |
Wasn't that Cadillac sign removed during remediation? | ||
Digitaldom Member Username: Digitaldom Post Number: 454 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 24.192.148.150 |
Guess you all fail to realize on the topic of how much it cost to build versus what someone paid for it.. One BIG building comes to mind.. Ren Cen.. GM got a steal for it.. I don't remember the details.. But I believe it was a ridiculously low price.. Though I admit it has done wonders for the building.. GM has done a very good job of working with what they had.. So I never knew but what happened with the OLD GM headquarters building in the New Center Area? | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2518 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.81.176 |
GM got the RenCen for something like $78 million. I believe Highgate, the company that bid for GM, bid $75 million, and GM bought it from Highgate for $78 million. And of course, GM has put over $500 million into it since then. | ||
Digitaldom Member Username: Digitaldom Post Number: 457 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 24.192.148.150 |
Yes exactly that's what I was pointing out.. The commercial real-estate market in Detroit is rather dead.. And is getting worse.. So if someone gets the building for less so what.. At least it is putting revenue dollars into Detroit sorely needed (yet mispent) coffers.. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 1099 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.231.189.137 |
The old GM headquarters is occupied by a couple thousand State employees, and is State HQ for SE Michigan... It also has many shops on the ground floor | ||
Digitaldom Member Username: Digitaldom Post Number: 461 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 24.192.148.150 |
Thanx for the info! Glad to see the building is being used.. Any space for the City / County building people.. Seems that building needs help.. |
