  Rokk_krinn Member Username: Rokk_krinn Post Number: 42 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.216.131.63 |
From Crains: The new owners of Novi shopping center Fountain Walk have submitted plans to the city to demolish nearly 60,000 square feet of vacant retail space on the center’s north side and turn an area between two buildings on the south side into a pedestrian space. Rest of the article here: http://www.crainsdetroit.com/a pps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2006 0626/SUB/60623030&SearchID=732 48876586261 | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 491 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 35.12.21.65 |
I don't have a Crain's subscription; can't read it. Isn't this Fountain Walk center only several years old? Sounds like the ultimate symbol of disposable, throwaway culture. | ||
Valkyrias Member Username: Valkyrias Post Number: 278 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.47.103.87 |
new owners? when did the old owners sell it? and yes burnsie, fountain walk is actually less than several years old. maybe about 5 or 6. | ||
Rokk_krinn Member Username: Rokk_krinn Post Number: 43 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.216.131.63 |
There's really not much more to the article. Wasn't sure on the rules for posting entire articles anymore. I drove by Fountain Walk a couple of weeks ago. In the middle of a booming suburb - it seems so eerily empty. In some ways - it reminds me of Woodward / Merchant Row area. Pretty facades - nothing behind them. I find it amazing though that they are demoing some of the buildings. Isn't that kind of unheard of for such new retail space? There is definitely demand in Novi as Twelve Oaks is about to expand. | ||
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 284 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 71.227.95.4 |
More like an example of someone trying to fix a horrifically designed shopping/entertainment complex. I really can't understand what the architects were trying for when they built the place, but whatever it was it does not seem to work. Large empty spaces, extremely long walks from the parking areas, lack of visibility from both the surrounding roads and the parking areas. It's a mess. If I remember correctly the company that developed Fountain walk went under just before it was finished, but I was not aware of any recent changes in ownership. | ||
Moreta Member Username: Moreta Post Number: 221 Registered: 09-2004 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
They're taking out the fountain. Signage will be changed to reflect the change: Fountainless Drive. Imagine that, metro Detroiters don't like having to park far away and walk through inclement weather to get to a retail establishment or entertainment destination. Hmmm... I never would have guessed! :D | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2663 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 75.10.26.110 |
Ok time to tell both sides of the story. Yes the Fountain Walk design is poor and it is empty where there aren't any open businesses (about half of the development), but the restaurant/entertainment side (BW3s, Emagine Theater, Hooters, Coldstone, and Lucky's) is usually packed. Also, the major retail tenants (The Great Indoors, Dick's Sporting Goods, and the World Market) do well. | ||
Andysrc Member Username: Andysrc Post Number: 81 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 69.14.127.146 |
I lived out in Novi for a short time and always hated the Fountain Walk area. Traffic was terrible, and once you got into the shopping center, it was like trying to navigate a maze. Parking was bad too. Just seemed like the place never came together like it could have. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10228 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.37.236 |
They didn't, they got foreclosed on probably a year ago or longer. By far the worst development I have probably ever seen. Truly an anti-urban mentality at work. You'd probably have to walk a mile from the main road (Novi Rd) in order to reach the back of the development. | ||
Wmuchris Member Username: Wmuchris Post Number: 327 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.246.19.24 |
The place looks like an f-ing circus tent. Tear the whole thing down. Except for Dick's Sporting Goods. (Or whatever they call it now) | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3923 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.11.154.56 |
Just an example of the Novi retail market cannablizing a poorly planned and designed project. Hey, how is "downtown" Novi doing? | ||
Valkyrias Member Username: Valkyrias Post Number: 280 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.47.103.87 |
"They didn't, they got foreclosed on probably a year ago or longer." hmmm...interesting. surprised i didn't hear of that sooner (my father knows one of the previous owners). and i've always thought it was most definitely one of the worst developments as well. what a waste... lmichigan...which downtown novi? as there are probably about 3 of them... | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3926 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.11.154.56 |
The one that actually markets itself as downtown Novi. (Message edited by lmichigan on June 27, 2006) | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 163 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 63.85.13.248 |
This was built as Taubman's first attempt at building a center such as this (so called lifestyle center). It has poor access to freeway, no transit, and must rely on local traffic to stay afloat. The problem with this is of course; this area was saturated with big box development long before this projects was started. Taubman had delayed the opening of this property due to lack of tennants and eventually got out of it before it opened. Therefore, I am not shocked to see that this place is failing. When your biggest tennant in terms of square footage is a skate park, you're in trouble. | ||
Jfre66_77 Member Username: Jfre66_77 Post Number: 39 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 12.15.1.161 |
Fountainwalk was not a Taubman Development, it was developed by PLC Commercial out of Newport Beach California. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4421 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.84.90 |
Sounds like The Fountain Walk will be NO LONGER a enclosed strip mall. Due to poor atmosphere. I hope it works. Meanwhile Twelve Oaks Mall is doing a great job attracting more patrons along with its new Food Court. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4422 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.84.90 |
Detroitplanner, Great post!!!! I never know that the Fountain Walk is developed my a Californian Construction Company. No wonder the atrium of the outdoor mall has a Venice Beachesque atmosphere. It doesn't fit in to Michigan enviroment. Jfre66_77 you need get some sources before you post the facts. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 166 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 63.85.13.248 |
Jfre. Taubman was the origninal developer. It appeared on it's REIT website prior to it opening as a property under construction. With Lord and Taylors closing down left and right, there maybe no need to make a major expansion to 12 Oaks to bring in the new anchor. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10229 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.226 |
It was foreclosed on as well, about the same time. Farbman took over both developments to some extent. Prior to the foreclosing on the "downtown," a good half dozen places closed up shop, including my favorite Chinese place. Quizno's and some breakfast place were two other failed businesses. The Strip mall near Novi Rd, south of the freeway, also has vacancies popping up. All the while they keep on building more strip malls and industrial complexes, though the tennants simply aren't demanding them, nor are they surviving.
Tear Dick's down too, they quit selling hand guns and ammo, so now I go to Gander Mountain. While not really part of the Fountain Walk, it's still part of that strip mall wasteland development back there. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1781 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
http://www.ci.novi.mi.us/Resou rces/Library/Minutes/Planning/ 2006/as060614.htm | ||
Jfre66_77 Member Username: Jfre66_77 Post Number: 41 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 12.15.1.161 |
Taubman's involvement was only to help lease the property, they did not develop the project and were never an owner. http://www.theoaklandpress.com /stories/092104/bus_2004092101 8.shtml | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 168 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 63.85.13.248 |
hmm according to International Shopping Centers, Taubman was the owner/developer of the mall. This is consistent with what I read on Taubman's website (but to be fair, who knows if all the the malls on the Taubman Site are actually wholly owned by Taubman). http://www.icsc.org/srch/sct/i mages/LifestyleCenters.pdf | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10238 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.226 |
Everybody is probably trying to whipe their hands of this development about now. LOL | ||
Jfre66_77 Member Username: Jfre66_77 Post Number: 42 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 12.15.1.161 |
This also from the ICSC website. http://www.icsc.org/srch/sct/s ct1002/page50.php?region= | ||
Jfre66_77 Member Username: Jfre66_77 Post Number: 43 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 12.15.1.161 |
SS - I think you hit the nail on the head. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 122 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.131.176.232 |
Heh. This place if falling through even faster than I thought. Everything about that place is APPROPRIATED for the suburban palate. Everything from the "walkable" district, surrounded by a mammouth sized parking, lot to that imitation cantina called Tequila Rain. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 6185 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
I've never been there. Does it have a fountain? | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 123 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.131.176.232 |
Jeff, I've honestly never seen one. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 6186 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
Seems like it should. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3928 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.11.154.56 |
Novi's time, even though it's still growing as at a healthy clip, seems to have come and gone in place of *fill in the name of the next non-descript suburb*. Give Canton 5 more years before it, too, becomes "uncool" in our throw-away society and culture for an even further out suburb. Eventually, your guys sprawl will be here in Lansing. lol | ||
Dirthead Member Username: Dirthead Post Number: 8 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
Last winter,during/after a particularly messy snowstorm we went to a movie at the Emagine. After navigating almost blindly thru the blowing snow and slippery sidewalks I asked the ticket seller what they were thinking when they decided that the movie didn't need an entrance closer to the parking lot. They told me then that it was because it was 'borned' in CA. Hmm, you would think SOMEBODY in Michigan would have had veto power over the blueprints! | ||
Pacypacy_ Member Username: Pacypacy_ Post Number: 157 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 24.192.166.67 |
To think I got deleted for non-Detroit related posts on here, NOVI'S fountain???, C'mon. | ||
Pacypacy_ Member Username: Pacypacy_ Post Number: 159 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 24.192.166.67 |
And this thread has WHAT to do with Detroit? Shouldn't it be moved to NON-Detroit issues? Isn't that the "rule"? | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 169 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
Jfre - Uncle... I give! Its not worth it to me. I'm not worthy! : ) Jfre is the king of Novi! Pacypacy, This site is dedicated to the Detroit without political boundaries. Anything within its sphere of influence is fair game. I for one have learned a ton of stuff here about communities in this area, people like AIW provide great snippets and insights of subcultures and traditions. (Message edited by Detroitplanner on June 27, 2006) | ||
Machoken Member Username: Machoken Post Number: 1353 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.85.155.145 |
Seriously pacy, what Detroitplanner said, but with a 'Give it up' added. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3930 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.11.154.56 |
Papacy, another thing this is a discussion about Fountain PLACE, not a fountain in Novi as if anyone should have needed to say that. | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 681 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 68.61.194.237 |
Quit getting baited by Papacy. | ||
Machoken Member Username: Machoken Post Number: 1357 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.85.155.145 |
Good idea, tetsua. Why do I succumb to temptation? | ||
Jfre66_77 Member Username: Jfre66_77 Post Number: 45 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 12.15.1.161 |
D-Planner...I have no ties to Novi other than having some friends who live there. I'm an eastsider. I have a friend who's company was involved in the development/construction. I always thought the plan was horrible from the first time I saw it. While we may have disagreed on who built it, I totally agree with your assessment of the project. Too much retail there already, and the place is a nightmare to get in and out of. | ||
Pacypacy_ Member Username: Pacypacy_ Post Number: 160 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 136.181.195.84 |
So then the name of board needs to be changed to "Discuss the Tri-County area" and drop the word Detroit completely, right? | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 172 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 63.85.13.248 |
"I have no ties to Novi other than having some friends who live there. I'm an eastsider." Geez Jfre, did not realize you were so Noviphobic! : ) I did not take your information as a disagreement, I was using it to check my own brain cells, and I was coming up with what we geographers/planners refer to as a spatial mismatch! Pacypacy, sorry tri-county don't work either, what about essex county and trips our parents and grandparents took to Tashmoo? Did you knnow that the Detroit urbanized area (according to the US Census is out in Heartland Township (Livingston County?) and the exurbs of Hartland can place you even further out than that! You better just drop your notion of trying to classify everything, you will have a lot less stress in your life. You can even make the arguement that places like Toledo, Flint, and Lansing are all part of the structure of Detroit because we trade with those places as well. | ||
Pacypacy_ Member Username: Pacypacy_ Post Number: 167 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 136.181.195.84 |
So you agree that the forum name should be changed, good, now if we can get the rest of the posters on board for this. | ||
Jfre66_77 Member Username: Jfre66_77 Post Number: 46 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 12.15.1.161 |
No offense to the Novi-folk out there. Didn't mean to sound like I was dissing them. I just meant that it's about 3 time zones away from where I live (at least the drive feels like it), so I don't get out there all that often.  | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 6079 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.236.198.22 |
Haven't seen this yet in the thread...but perhaps the new owners thought they needed a little destruction to make it a pseudo-legimate downtown? They might be trying to instill a wee bit of nostalgia..."do you remember when that dirt lot was an empty building?!" Tear that schitt down. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1807 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 71.144.119.173 |
Vacant storefronts in somewhere other than Detroit? No way! This is a sign of things to come. This whole region is in limbo, as it makes up its mind regarding whether suburban expansion is good, where we should limit sprawl, if the inner-ring is the answer, and if Detroit should once again be considered a place to work, shop, play, or even live. This is all complicated by an economy which has put the stops on new commercial "development" in the hinterlands (something I don't honestly mind seeing). This Novi thing, which does not get headlines or hasn't been mentioned on local newscasts to my knowledge, is symbolic of what's happening. Driving 75 or Stephenson through Troy, or Telegraph through Southfield and Bloomfield, and seeing all the 'For lease' signs on near empty office parks, will illustrate this fact further. Burnsie's post at the top says it right. This is a throwaway culture. We'll build ugly, poorly-planned, car-reliant shopping centers, and then scratch our heads when they fail after a few years, or, if they suceed, we scratch our heads when a traditional, downtown retail district with small businesses collapses at the expense of the glitzy new mall. Read "the Geography of Nowhere," which I'm reading and just plugged on another thread, for an eloquent analysis of these problems. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 434 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 129.9.163.234 |
Mackinaw--I've been refering to "the geography of nowhere" for a while on this forum. Glad to see someone else reading it. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3938 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.11.154.56 |
Mackinaw, even places like Troy and Southfield are seeing high vacancy rates in strip mall office and business space. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4468 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 198.111.165.50 |
That's the power of Capitalism. Corporate competition has its price. | ||
Lt_tom Member Username: Lt_tom Post Number: 112 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 71.79.120.223 |
Too bad Fountain Walk wasnt designed like Victoria Gardens in Rancho Cucamonga, CA. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 6225 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.136.149.133 |
I'm sure we all feel that way, Lt. Tom. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1809 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 71.144.94.40 |
56packman, I'm glad to hear that, while reading the book 'Crunchy Cons' the author referenced 'Geography of Nowhere' during his chapter on the ills of suburbia, and I was turned on to it. Danny said it right...IMO Capitalism has its place, and I think its the correct basic economic formula for a productive society. But, it has casualties, especially in the modern age of efficiency, which oftentimes includes the destruction of once beautiful built environments, and even more often, the destruction of the natural environment. Thankfully, in postmodern times, since the 1960s awakening re: pollution etc., and since the rebirth of American cities (at least American downtowns and small towns) of the last decade or so, these problems have been less severe. |
