  Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 725 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 147.240.236.9 |
It would be nice if this trend gains more steam in Detroit. http://money.cnn.com/2006/06/1 5/real_estate/return_to_cities /index.htm NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Retirees, empty nesters and young professionals usually have little in common, but they're all in the vanguard of a recent trend - they're repatriating center cities. The trend, which began in the late 1990s, marks a reversal of the post-war urban flight to the suburbs. Now, it's strengthening. "I think it's likely to continue for the next 15 years," says John McIlwain, senior fellow for housing at the Urban Land Institute. "Boomers are aging and people think of cities as a good place to retire to, as well as to continue to work." At a recent teleconference of Coldwell Banker real estate brokers from around the country, the theme was repeated over and over: People are moving back downtown. In Philadelphia, according to Harry Caparo, CEO of Coldwell Banker Preferred, they're resettling the old downtown core, especially the Rittenhouse Square, Society Hill, Old Town and Museum District neighborhoods. In Nashville, reports broker David Barnes of Coldwell Banker Barnes, they're moving to the Lower Broad area, where the music clubs and honkytonks are. Seattle's downtown is also booming, according to Bill Riss, of Coldwell Banker Bain, with high rise apartments and lofts going up at a fast rate. What's the big attraction? Young professionals make up a big part of the trend. "It's carefree living," says Caparo. "Young professionals just want to put the key in the door and go to bed at night and lock it up again in the morning." It's also where the action is, professionally and socially. "For them, there's lots of DNA to hook up with," says McIlwain. Retirees love the museums, restaurants and, most important, access to the best health care. Empty nesters get to live near work. "For years people traded a commute for affordable housing," says Jim Gillespie, CEO of Coldwell Banker. The further out in the suburbs, the more affordable the homes. But as suburbs expanded and got more crowded, road construction did not, could not, keep up. Congestion grew worse. "We can't build our way out of road congestion," says McIlwain. "It's a feature of America's suburbs from now on." So, as soon as they are in a position to do so, many boomers move to avoid all that traffic. And they can often cash out pricey, suburban homes, buy a great condo in town and still have some money left over. All the various demographic groups benefit from some of the same aspects of city living. None of them have to cut the grass or water the flowers any more. They don't even have to cook; restaurants are just a short walk or even a phone call away. Leisure time activities, such as movies, plays, concerts, professional sports, art galleries and clubs are nearby and easy to get to. Of course the ideal of city life is not new. Centuries ago, Ben Johnson said, "When a man is tired of London, he is tired of life." What kept many Americans away were the social problems that seemed endemic in town - crime, homelessness, poor schools. But cities are much better managed than they used to be, according to McIlwain. Crime reduction in particular, he reports, has pulled people back. New York, for example, recorded a 75 percent drop in crime from 1990 to 2005. Most cities experienced smaller, but significant, crime reductions. That's why the latest stats showing an upturn in violent crime are worrisome for city managers. Nationwide, the percentage rise was only 2.5 percent, but it marked the first increase since 2001. Murders jumped: 23 percent from 272 to 334 in Houston; from 330 to 377 in Philadelphia, a 14 percent rise; and 10 percent, from 131 to 144, in Las Vegas. It may be a sign of things to come. CNN.com reported recently that an "echo boom" effect has led to an increasing population of young males, the demographic most responsible for violent crime. If felonies spike, that could cause those considering relocating to hit the brakes pretty quick. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1934 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.106 |
It has already hit Detroit. My neighbors in Brush Park are either sinks/dinks or older empty nesters. Split about 50/50 between the two. | ||
Spacemonkey Member Username: Spacemonkey Post Number: 38 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 63.102.87.27 |
I dunno. I lived Downtown Detroit for 3.5 years. However inexpensive it was, it was entirely inconvenient. There wasn't even anywhere to buy groceries, few places for gas. And there was little to do, but go to bars, go to a ballgame or walk around. Now that I'm older, I prefer the comfort and convenience of the suburbs. But that's just me. Maybe others will move downtown Detroit. But I can't say I'm dreaming of it. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 2730 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.38.12.221 |
Ummmmmm...what are sinks and dinks? | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 6156 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
single income, no kids double-income, no kids | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1595 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
200 people do not make a trend. In fact, I would argue that Brush Park, plus all of the new lofts, condos, and other developments combined are statistically insignificant in a region of over 4 million people. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1935 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.106 |
As compared to a sitkom single income two kids outragous mortgage. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 2733 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.38.12.221 |
lol oh ok, I should have known that... | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 881 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.212.214.108 |
not to pick on you specifically spacemonkey, but people try and sell me that load of crap and i'm still not buying it. there's harbortown market and the one on e.warren that are within a three mile radius of downtown. the large farmer jack on jefferson within 5 miles. and the best for last: eastern market almost within walking distance. yes the open air stalls may only be saturday, but almost all of the surrounding stores keep weekday hours. little do do? aside from restaurants, there are wonderful smaller theatres (check out the abreact for one; best part - it's free), free outdoor movies, street festivals, football games, hockey games, the fifth largest art museum in the country, a top rated ochestra and opera company, travelling shows, casinos (if that's your bag), parks, marinas, races, on and on and on. these are all within walking distance or a short drive. i think you'd be hard pressed to find that much, in such a close proximity, in southeastern michigan. again, not pointing you out specifically spacemonkey and i realize that city living is not for all, but i've heard those arguments before and they are completely without merit and completely ridiculous. [end rant] | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1936 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.106 |
It may be insignificant in a group of 4 million people. Compared to the past outflow of people from the city, the trend has started. We know most families with kids in the region are not going to move into Detroit. Almost all of the people moving into the city have no children. | ||
Jtw Member Username: Jtw Post Number: 87 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 12.159.32.66 |
sinks, dinks, and twinks? oh, never mind. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1772 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 70.237.11.186 |
If you lived downtown and worked in the suburbs, then it might be a little inconvenient. There is a CVS there now, a grocer on the way (right?), and Eastern Mkt. nearby, as Rsa says. I don't by the bs which says that the suburbs are more convenient. Sure there may be a 20-lane road which gets you from here to there in 10 minutes, but driving in thick traffic around the suburban wasteland gets old, doesn't it? Plus with low-density land use patterns, you usually have to go further to go to work, the store, school, or church, and walkability is clearly thrown out the window in 90 percent of suburban settings. That's an interesting story you posted, Gildas...I think people are reclaiming an awareness for the built environment in which they choose to live, and looking to include more culture in their lives. There's a large group of people who will take a cool urban neighborhood over the monotonity of suburban ranch houses and strip malls anyday, even if they have to pay more and/or have to lock their doors and watch their back and/or have to make a weekly trip a few miles away to get groceries. | ||
Spacemonkey Member Username: Spacemonkey Post Number: 39 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 63.102.87.27 |
Let me clarify ... I lived at Cass & Bagley at the Ramada (Leland Hotel) from 1992 to 1996, before casinos, before the new stadiums were opened, before Harbortown was anything, before any CVS (one CVS does not make an area convenient by the way), and I did shop at some Farmer Jack near Jefferson once or twice but it was pretty nasty. I drove to the subs to grocery shop then lugged bags. Whatever. It was fun for a college kid paying $125 a month in rent for a furnished apartment with all utilities included. So, maybe there are a few more things to do today, but it sure was dead down there then, and doesn't sound like much more of a picnic now. | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 699 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 84.156.28.66 |
I actually laughed when I read Spacemonkey's post. I guess because there's no Whole Foods or Trader Joe's or Hiller's there are no grocery stores, then you're right. The University Market is awesome. Better than any Suburban Kroger I've been to (quality, not quantity). I lived in the suburbs for 32 years and I found them to be completely inconvenient (I had to DRIVE EVERYWHERE, including just across the street) and there was positively NOTHING to do, unless you wanted to hang out at the neighborhood Meijer's... But then again, you're so BUSY driving your ass around everywhere, there really isn't any free time to do anything, but watch TV. Sorry, I just do not buy the "cover-all" story that there's nothing in Detroit to do or that it's inconvinient (at least not as inconvinient as anywhere else in SE Michigan). BTW, this is NO attack on Spacemonkey's decision to live in the burbs. That's cool, I just don't believe his statement about inconinience or nothing to do. | ||
Spacemonkey Member Username: Spacemonkey Post Number: 41 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 63.102.87.27 |
I dunno. I never heard of University Market. Where's it located? I lived on Bagley and worked on Griswold. Could I have walked there, or would I have to drive from Cass and Bagley to get there? Or would I take a taxi. Right! Plus, maybe it's a new market? I was down there years ago. Where I live now I can walk to a Nino Salvaggio's and back with my family. It's close enough. No driving. And as far as things to do: sure, I went to the city club, the red door speak easy, art galleries and the fireworks display, but that was all college stuff. This thread is about older, settled down folk moving back to the city. I was just saying I doubt there'd be much that appeals to me now that I'm an older family man. Where would I take my toddler to play? Where's the Detroit Jungle Java, Chuck E. Cheese or a decent park? No offense, but seriously? | ||
Corktownmark Member Username: Corktownmark Post Number: 193 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 141.217.12.135 |
This spring I spent some time in Chicago. The urban life style near the river mouth is probably 50/50 btwn empty nesters and dinks and sinks... first i have heard of sitkom though nDavies. Same 50/50 thing in Corktown judging by my nieghbors. I have no trouble finding and buying stuff but I wish the hardware stores were open later on week nights and a Meijers closer would be good too. The truth is one Meijers is a 10-12 minute freeway hop away... kinda like living in the burbs taking a freeway to shop. | ||
Themax Member Username: Themax Post Number: 18 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 69.246.123.118 |
Where are the free outdoor movies? | ||
Detroiternthemist Member Username: Detroiternthemist Post Number: 60 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 64.118.149.50 |
Please stop the comparisons ....if you enjoy the urban lifestyle then living downtown is nice. Please stop with the nothing to do line that's so tired. Whatever your flavor you can find in or around the downtown area. Most of the folks that continue to say there's nothing in the city haven't been here in years and don't know. And when talking about the downtown area don't forget to mention everything in downtown Windsor is only 10 minutes away. | ||
Solarflare Member Username: Solarflare Post Number: 440 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 65.112.56.3 |
What's people's problem with Trader Joe's? That store is great. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 549 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.8 |
Agreed Detroiternthemist. Just grab a Metrotimes. There's always a bazillion unique and interesting things to do. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1188 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 136.2.1.103 |
No, it is not. The article is about the trend of retirees, empty nesters & young professionals moving to urban areas. People with young kids is exactly what the article is not about. There is understandably not much of a trend for that demographic moving into downtown areas including Detroit (although some people do it). | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1597 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
And when talking about Ferndale, Downtown, Royal Oak, and Birmingham are all only 10 minutes away. What's your point? The truth of the matter is the article was talking about a national trend in large cities of people moving from the suburbs to the city centre, before they have kids and after the kids leave home. The trend here, is that before people have kids they move to Chicago, and after the kids leave, they move to FLA. A few hundred (maybe) empty nesters have moved downtown. THat is great. I would love more. A few hundred (maybe) incremental more pre-kid people moved downtwon. That is great. I would love to see more. However, as been stated so often it almost pains me to type it once more, significant numbers of people will not move to the city until (a) institutional problems, such as crime, insurance, and what not are cured;(b) quality of life issues, such as convenient shopping, clean and maintained parks, trash, and littering are under control; and (c) high paying jobs are located in the city. Until those three things happen, the best that we can hope for, I believe, is a net neutral churn between those that are here currently and those that will be coming in the future. As those things improve (vs. being fixed) we can hope for,a t best, moderate growth. The pool of people who are willing to live with all of the problems, nuisances, and troubles, and inconveniences that living in the city present (not to mention, the sheer number of people that are immediately cut out of the pool based on their baises, prejudices, intolerance, hatred, and other bull shit) is limited. Until we fix those things, the best we can hope for is to capture a larger share of that very small market. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 550 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.8 |
Dabirch, it's sad to see you so negative. It seems to me that Detroit has a nearly endless supply of young hip musicians and artists who don't give a damn about the any of the issues you sited. They are totally risk-oblivious. They generally work at bars and restaurants and odd businesses. They want cheap as hell rent. They generally don't care about cleanliness. They don't really even care about crime. These are the folks who get things started. It was similar in R.O. and in Ferndale. Detroit is still in the early gentrification stages. I think their's no doubt about it that some parts of Detroit will be the next Royal Oak/Ferndale phenomenon. There is always a NEXT cool place. It just may take a couple years until the economy gets revved up again and the yuppies come pouring in (and ruin it of course). The great thing about Detroit is that unlike RO and Ferndale, Detroit is a really big city and when an area gets lame and yuppified the cool people can move on to another neighborhood and the process starts all over again. This process has been well documented in major cities across the country (NYC, Chicago, you name it) it's just taking longer in Detroit, shit the loft craze hit NYC in the 80's! | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1598 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
ESD -- I believe there is a difference between realism and blind optimism. I am not negative (although many would paint me that way). I see nothing negative about saying that there exists a limited pool of people who are willing to move here. If you could please quantify the "endless supply of young, hip musicians and artists" I would be interested in that. Quite frankly, "young hip musicians and artists who don't give a damn about the any of the issues you sited" are already here. They have been here for a long time, and they continue. In fact, from what I see, those people are actually being priced out of the city centre (which is what the article was about), and being forced to find options elsewhere. An interesting problem to have --- but absolutely nothing to do with the article, nor with what I was discussing. The point of the article was talking about empty nesters and professional people, before and after kids, moving to the city centers. Those are the issues that affect everybody other than the "young hip musicians and artists who don't give a damn about the any of the issues you sited." | ||
Michael Member Username: Michael Post Number: 732 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.74.2.249 |
Yeah, 'cause I see nothing but youngsters at the Hilberry, DIA, DSO, MOT and DFT when I go. What or what is an empty nester to do for entertainment? | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 111 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.131.176.232 |
People won't move to Detroit until it's "cool" again... | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 22 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 69.212.123.90 |
I am constantly trying to come up with a plan to allow me to move downtown. I have checked out some condos in the Brush Park area. Any of them would be more than adequate. I have done renovations before and am ready for something newer, however, I love the character of the older homes and buildings. I am not afraid of crime (although I'd like indoor parking to protect my car.) I am constantly brining friends to Detroit and showing them every neighborhood I can and telling them that I am going to live there someday. I have lived my entire life (except college years)in northern Macomb county. My family and friends think I am insane and some have vowed to never visit me if I move to Detroit. I don't care. I love it there. I love historical buildings, unique areas of the city and the mix of people. I work in Oakland county and have left my office many times after work to go downtown. I can be in the stadiums area in 15 minutes. My commute to work is 24 miles each way and the drive takes 1 hour each way. The reverse commute would be a time saver. I don't shop much so that isn't a problem, although I think there is adequate stores in the city. What is stopping me? The TAXES! Although I have faith that the city is making a strong come back, I am not willing to risk buying a property with a 12 year tax break attached to it. What if the area declines or real estate in general stagnates? Who will buy it and pay full taxes? Could I afford to pay full taxes after the 12 years? I think that there are many more people that have the same thoughts as I do. If the tax situation was better, more people would move to the city, more people means more business thrive, bringing more people...you get the picture. Does anyone agree with me that the taxes are the biggest road block from bring full time resident to the city? | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 714 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 68.42.133.85 |
Downtown Detroit seems to be coming along pretty well, and it's a beautiful thing. I have to say, I drove through Chicago the other day, where I lived for 12 years, and I was stunned by the development downtown. South of the loop, what seems to be an entire city of highrises as emerged from a post-industrial wasteland. I had to blink when I saw it. It was like a dream. So many buildings in just a few years. I would kill for a tiny fraction of that growth in Detroit. | ||
Talleman1 Member Username: Talleman1 Post Number: 6 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.245.81.70 |
There is alot of rehabiing of Merchants row and all over the downtown area but I do not see one grocery store or and service type shops appearing. Shopping in the city is scattered and since alot of new homes being build they need to get the stores to support these new arrivals. It is a big problem. Get rid of liquior stores and bring in markets. Well hopefully if we build it they will come with apprehension will happen. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 555 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.8 |
Dabirch, I think it's safe to say that some artist/musician types eventually enter the "professional class." Many of these folks are also college students. As far as the poor artist types being priced out of the city center, that's absolutely true. As of late, All the cool underground shows and parties are all happening is over in the Corktown/Woodbridge/New Center area. The hipsters and cool folks are clearly heading for the neighborhoods.
The thing is, the cities they are talking about in the articles are already well along. Detroit is not as far along and thus is just in the earlier stages of gentrification. |
