Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning July 2006 » Detroit Zoo -vs- Toledo « Previous Next »
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Pacypacy_
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Username: Pacypacy_

Post Number: 99
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 136.181.195.84
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I suggest if you are going to visit a real zoo this season visit Toledo. Last weekend was a fun time there for me. You could actually see the animals such as tigers and gorilla's and guess what...they actually have an elephant! They also have several fish that look very familiar like they are from the Belle Isle aquarium (boarded up crack house style by Kwame). I am done with the Detroit Zoo. I've seen the light or should I say the animals?
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Rjk
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Username: Rjk

Post Number: 354
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.41.145.5
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Speaking of elephants, I wonder how Winky and Wanda are doing out in Califronia?

Anyone hear from them?

(Message edited by rjk on June 19, 2006)
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Pacypacy_
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Username: Pacypacy_

Post Number: 102
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 136.181.195.84
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Probably wearing tie-dye and beads and drinking latte's in their commune.....The Toledo Zoo's elephants appeared to be healthy to me so why not Detroit's? The only place to see an elephant in Detroit is when the circus comes to town. Kagen is a PETA loving dolt and needs to retire.
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 5635
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 209.216.150.127
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Toledo Zoo is a top notch facility with a great little ampitheater. Check out the concert line up, there isn't a bad seat there.
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Susanarosa
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Username: Susanarosa

Post Number: 916
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 208.39.170.90
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rjk, I was reading my mom's Zoo newsletter this weekend and there was an article about Wanda and Winky. They appear to be doing well, Wanda has made friends but Winky likes being around people more. They still sleep next to each other at night.

Pacy, you're a troll.
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Pam
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Username: Pam

Post Number: 254
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 67.107.47.65
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Winky and Wanda:

http://www.pawsweb.org/site/an imals/wandawinky/index.htm

I don't mind the Detroit Zoo not having elephants if they didn't feel they could offer them the best living conditions. They did the right thing by finding them a new home.
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Rjk
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Username: Rjk

Post Number: 355
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.41.145.5
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

W & W sure look pretty happy in those pictures.

When you see how nice that place looks I most certainly think Kagen made the right decision.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 148
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 63.85.13.248
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pacypacy has trolled before, he will troll again.

He does not mention that there is regional support for the Toledo Zoo. A regional tax pays for almost 30 percent of the zoo's operating costs. Something that has been tried here a few years ago, but was shot down.
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Pacypacy_
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Username: Pacypacy_

Post Number: 103
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 136.181.195.84
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 12:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just calling em' as I see em'. As far as the elephants, maybe they do look happy there, but they looked happy here too. Now our children have to go to Toledo to see an elephant or wait until the circus comes to town. Those elephants had it made here, no predators, free health care, free medical, climate controlled rooms, free food and recreation....if they were in the wild they would have been dead by now and Kagen says they are not being treated humanely here? Is he saying he mistreated them for 40 years? Again, Kagen is a dolt who worships at the PETA alter. Animals are here to serve us, not vice versa. The Toledo Zoo is the berries!
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Czar
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Username: Czar

Post Number: 3125
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 129.137.185.169
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 12:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^Fucking idiot.
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Rberlin
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Username: Rberlin

Post Number: 558
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 75.7.194.254
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit Zoo hands down. Disregard PETA, the Detroit Zoo is probably the best run zoo in the nation as far as animal welfare goes. I'm always amazed at all the rehabilitated and rescued animals they have. Why would anyone want a zoo, like San Diego for example, where all the animals are half dead and pissed off, when you can support something like the Detroit Zoo and know your money is going toward the maintenance and well being of the critters you're going to see.
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Pam
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Username: Pam

Post Number: 255
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 67.107.47.65
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 12:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Elephant FAQ:

http://www.detroitzoo.org/News %10Events/In_the_News/Elephant s_-_Questions_and_Answers/
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Pacypacy_
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Username: Pacypacy_

Post Number: 104
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 136.181.195.84
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 1:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Czar QUOTE: ^Fucking idiot.

Now there's an adult response. Are you going to attempt to beat me up after study hall too? :-)

All that cut and paste gobbility gook is fine and dandy if you fall into the PETA we should serve the animals mindset, I'm sorry, but I don't. Worried about animal welfare? Worried about endangered or an animal possibly becoming extinct? Make them a delicacy and they will multiply exponentially because they will be bred ...for food. I don't see cows or chickens on the endangered list. If it's your thing to toe the PETA line go ahead but it's my decision not to and it's my right to post my opinion on this site as long as I follow the posting rules. Toledo Zoo is 10 times better than Detroit's.
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Machoken
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Username: Machoken

Post Number: 1300
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 207.145.38.104
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 1:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Uh yeah and it's our right to say that your opinion proves you are an idiot.

Oh, the horror of a zoo director CARING ABOUT ANIMALS. For crying out loud...
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Pam
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Username: Pam

Post Number: 257
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 67.107.47.65
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Respect and caring for animals is not an idea invented by PETA. It's been around longer than that. (Buddhism for example.)
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Jjw
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Username: Jjw

Post Number: 111
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 68.33.56.156
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hate to mention this--may be a sore spot--but went to the Detroit Zoo last summer---what a mess---freeway noise, shabby grounds--ugh---i know this topic has come up before on other threads--but why oh why doesn't the state take it over and really do something big with it. probably a dead horse issue---
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Pam
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Username: Pam

Post Number: 258
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 67.107.47.65
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was just there 2 months ago and it didn't look shabby to me.
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Matt
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Username: Matt

Post Number: 1066
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 208.49.95.12
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Pacy, instead of bitching and knocking down the Detroit Zoo, why don't you be proactive, open your pockets and cut them a nice fat check?

Of course, now you have no excuse not to donate some cash as the zoo is being operated by the zoological society.
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Funkycarrie
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Username: Funkycarrie

Post Number: 244
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 69.209.138.56
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 3:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I love the Toledo Zoo. They redid it back when I was a kid and lived in Maumee. I go back there and get flooded with good feelings. I definitely like their set up better as well, I like that they've attempted to recreate natural habitats.
I've actually never made it to the Detroit Zoo, its on my list every summer, and I never make it. I plan on going with my friend and her son this summer, so I'll post a good comparison then.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1619
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 67.36.21.222
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So how can you know their setup is better?
The det zoo is much bigger than Toledo's.The det zoo was very innovative when it was built showing animals in as natural an environment as posible for the time considering that zos were just animals in cages back then
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 10192
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.118.137.226
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 3:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Toledo has a kickass Zoo, I grew up visiting it usually at least once a year. The lights before Christmas is awesome as well. That being said, the Arctic Circle kicks ass and is 10x better than Toledo's halfway underground Hippo display.

Plus, I heard that a few years ago they did away with the underground tunnel leading you across the road to the zoo, replacing it with a bridge. That tunnel was sweet as hell! The Toledo Zoo would never be the same to me without it.
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Funkycarrie
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Username: Funkycarrie

Post Number: 246
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 69.209.138.56
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

sport...they took out the tunnel??
NOOOOOOOOOOO
what a shame.
I remember being 8 and yelling throughout it being thoroughly impressed with the echoes :-)
The Artic Circle is one of the main reasons I've been wanting to get to the DZ.

Citylover...word of mouth works wonders...but like I said I'd like to make a comparison myself.
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Smogboy
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Username: Smogboy

Post Number: 3107
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.47.100.44
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 4:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Geez, our kids have never seen LOTS of other animals either but I don't see a call out for our Zoo to go out and get them for the children's benefit. At what point does the Zoo have an obligation to YOUR children and at what point does any zoo have an obligation to the welfare of an animal??

It's a VERY precarious slope you stride on when you blame the Zoo & Ron Kagan for not having elephants, pacypacy_. What other animals should we procure for your children's enjoyment and at what cost???

Think about what a zoo's mission is before you cast blame.
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Focusonthed
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Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 273
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 209.220.229.254
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 4:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He already said what he considers the zoo's (and animals') mission to be: to serve humans (himself, in this case)

May the next elephant he encounters see the the levity in the situation, and step on him.
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Pacypacy_
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Username: Pacypacy_

Post Number: 105
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 24.192.166.67
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 5:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Matt Quote: Hey Pacy, instead of bitching and knocking down the Detroit Zoo, why don't you be proactive, open your pockets and cut them a nice fat check?

Pam Quote; Respect and caring for animals is not an idea invented by PETA. It's been around longer than that. (Buddhism for example.)

MATT, I'll cut them a check when they have an elephant exhibit. I patronizied them regularly until they took out the elephants, now not a penny more.Those elephants lived better than most Detroiters, now all of a sudden they are being treated "inhumane", yeah right.

PAM. Thanks for that pearl of wisdom, grasshopper.
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Andyguard73
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Username: Andyguard73

Post Number: 102
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 141.209.33.164
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 5:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think Pacypacy had a thing for Winky and Wanda. ;)
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Smogboy
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Username: Smogboy

Post Number: 3109
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.47.100.44
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 5:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pacypacy_, what if it was determined that the Zoo didn't have the means or the facilities to humanely treat Winky & Wanda? Would you insist on shelling out more of YOUR money to obtain more elephants for YOUR enjoyment?? And technically the exhibit itself is still there- it's just not being used to display elephants anymore.

And speaking of being treated humanely, isn't this what our society does to some of our senior citizens? Once they become a burden, don't we insist they live in assisted living?? In essence, isn't this what we've done for Winky & Wanda at their ripe old ages??
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Pam
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Username: Pam

Post Number: 260
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 63.41.48.200
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 7:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In other zoo news- lemurs escape:

http://www1.wxyz.com/wxyz/nw_l ocal_news/article/0,2132,WXYZ_ 15924_4785885,00.html
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Pacypacy_
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Username: Pacypacy_

Post Number: 107
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 24.192.166.67
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 7:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, so they were being treated inhumanely for the past 40 years? There's a difference between caring for an animal and going overboard to suit a PETA-esque mindset. As I said, I will resume visiting/supporting the zoo when elephants return. As far as senior citizens, those are human's and no one short of tons of red tape and a myriad of legal hoop jumping can "insist" they do anything, save someone with a POA., remember elephants are animals, they are here to serve the higher species, not vice-versa.
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Czar
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Username: Czar

Post Number: 3126
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 72.49.172.67
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This dude is either a troll or the dumbest poster in the history of the forum (and that's saying something).

I'll write the zoo a check if they bring back the elephants for a day and have them gore and stomp pacypacy for the general public's viewing pleasure. I can guarantee you an elephant is smarter than this asshole.
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Pam
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Username: Pam

Post Number: 261
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 63.41.48.200
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

This dude is either a troll or the dumbest poster in the history of the forum




Or he's Ted Nugent.
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Illmatic774
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Username: Illmatic774

Post Number: 23
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 70.189.142.74
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 7:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Toledo's is much better. Bar none.

Detroit's ain't too shabby at all, but Toledo's is competative on a national level.
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Pacypacy_
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Username: Pacypacy_

Post Number: 109
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 24.192.166.67
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 8:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Czar Quote; This dude is either a troll or the dumbest poster in the history of the forum (and that's saying something).

I'll write the zoo a check if they bring back the elephants for a day and have them gore and stomp pacypacy for the general public's viewing pleasure. I can guarantee you an elephant is smarter than this asshole.

Czar,
After reading your childish 4th. grade responses and your junior high level name calling I can safely guarantee you I am not the dumbest poster on this site. :-)
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1620
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 4.229.126.62
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 9:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Illmatic I generally do not tell people when they are wrong but in this case I can't let such an erroneous and misinformed statement stand.

The Detroit zoo is 125 acres; Toledo is 75 acres.The Detroit zoo's exhibits for the most part rae bigger i.e. the Lions and Tigers have more room to roam.As I said before when the Detroit zoo was designed it was revolutionary in design creating as natural an environment as they could in those days.For the most part it has served well.
Toledo has a fine zoo.Probably as nice a zoo a city the size of Toledo could have.But to say it is hands down better then the Detroit zoo is just plain wrong.You may like it better and that of course is your preference.But about the only thing "better" about the Toledo zoo is it's size makes it manageable for families with small children.
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Focusonthed
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Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 274
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 24.192.25.47
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, if size is the only criteria, Binder Park Zoo in Battle Creek is over 400 acres, 165 of which are developed. Does that make it better than Detroit? Dunno, never been to Detroit Zoo, but size isn't everything.
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Smogboy
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Username: Smogboy

Post Number: 3128
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.47.100.44
Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 2:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think anyone is saying that the elephants were intentionally abused during the last 40 some years but if our knowledge of how to treat these animals has increased, could it be that they really don't belong in zoos and out in larger facilities like the ones they're in now? Could it possibly be that we (according to pacypacy_) being the higher species accept the fact that maybe the Zoo's elephants are in a better place in the sanctuary?
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Pdtpuck
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Username: Pdtpuck

Post Number: 68
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 208.251.168.194
Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 4:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

where all the animals are half dead and pissed off



nearly pissed myself when i read that one!!!
made me think of the lions & leopards hanging around the coffee pot, smoking cigarettes and bitching about the "working conditions"
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Detrola
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Username: Detrola

Post Number: 25
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 69.14.28.209
Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 6:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Am I the only one that misses the audio information boxes that you turned on with your elephant key?
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Pacypacy_
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Username: Pacypacy_

Post Number: 111
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 136.181.195.84
Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 7:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detrola
Nice name, I remember those radio's well, even had a few for a time. I still have an elephant zoo key for the audio boxes.

Treatment of animals should be balanced with needs of the people. What were we going to do nurse these elephants until they reach 200 yrs. old? They are in a zoo to be observed by people, which, contrary to popular opinion on this board, is a better option then getting eaten by lions and have your bones picked by hyena's and vultures after you get old. The Detroit Zoo's exhibits are larger...so what? All that means is the animals hide in the middle as is the case with the gorilla's and others and you can't see them.
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Merchantgander
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Username: Merchantgander

Post Number: 1912
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 150.198.150.244
Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 7:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Illmatic I generally do not tell people when they are wrong but in this case I can't let such an erroneous and misinformed statement stand.




I just spit my coffee all over my computer.
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Gambling_man
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Username: Gambling_man

Post Number: 767
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 199.178.193.5
Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 10:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Toledo Zoo is VERY TINY in comparison to the Detroit Zoo. I agree that some of the displays are better than at the Detroit Zoo, but most are just smaller, making it easier to see the animals. Perhaps now that people aren't relying on the taxpayers of the City of Detroit to subsidize their zoo, they will open their own checkbooks and support the zoo.
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Pacypacy_
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Username: Pacypacy_

Post Number: 115
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 24.192.166.67
Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 5:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gambling_man QUOTE: Toledo Zoo is VERY TINY in comparison to the Detroit Zoo. I agree that some of the displays are better than at the Detroit Zoo, but most are just smaller, making it easier to see the animals.

Now there's a novel concept for a zoo....making it easier to see the animals.
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J32885
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Username: J32885

Post Number: 40
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 68.41.108.161
Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 12:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To be honest, I've alway's like the Toledo Zoo over the Detroit Zoo. At least they still have their elephants, compare to ours. Thanks for the update Supersport, about the old Toledo Zoo Tunnel. I'm going to miss it too.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2331
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.72.57
Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe the city of Detroit should NOT sell off the Rackham Golf Course, but instead use it for zoo expansion. They could use it as a natural savannah... that way they CAN have enough room to house elephants and other large land animals that require a lot of roaming space.
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Gdub
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Username: Gdub

Post Number: 1044
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 4.229.63.159
Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 11:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"The Toledo Zoo's elephants appeared to be healthy to me so why not Detroit's?"

I'm sure Detroit's zoologists (or should I say "PETA-loving dolts") would strongly consider such an expert, scientific opinion.

If one would take to time to reasearch something one seems to feel so strongly about, one would discover a few truths that might realign their thinking from something "I want my candy now, mommy!" to "mayby all that sugar's not so good for my teeth."

Smogboy is right. We have only recently grown out of the P.T. Barnum mentality with new discoveries in animal health. The zoo used to dress up monkeys and make them perform Smokey & the Bear-like tricks on a stage for everyone to giggle at. They used to put kids on the backs of elephants and trot them around.

Elephants are accustomed to walking about 30 miles a day. If they are confined to a space that's about an acre in size, their feet will become prematurely arthritic. Winky and Wanda were both around 50 years old. Their ankles were arthritic. In winter, they had even less space to exercise. Now, they can walk freely in a sanctuary that's about 100 times the size of their previous space. They'll live longer and happier as a result.

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