Pacypacy_ Member Username: Pacypacy_
Post Number: 99 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 136.181.195.84
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:27 am: | |
I suggest if you are going to visit a real zoo this season visit Toledo. Last weekend was a fun time there for me. You could actually see the animals such as tigers and gorilla's and guess what...they actually have an elephant! They also have several fish that look very familiar like they are from the Belle Isle aquarium (boarded up crack house style by Kwame). I am done with the Detroit Zoo. I've seen the light or should I say the animals? |
Rjk Member Username: Rjk
Post Number: 354 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.41.145.5
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:34 am: | |
Speaking of elephants, I wonder how Winky and Wanda are doing out in Califronia? Anyone hear from them? (Message edited by rjk on June 19, 2006) |
Pacypacy_ Member Username: Pacypacy_
Post Number: 102 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 136.181.195.84
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:40 am: | |
Probably wearing tie-dye and beads and drinking latte's in their commune.....The Toledo Zoo's elephants appeared to be healthy to me so why not Detroit's? The only place to see an elephant in Detroit is when the circus comes to town. Kagen is a PETA loving dolt and needs to retire. |
Aiw
Member Username: Aiw
Post Number: 5635 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 209.216.150.127
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:41 am: | |
The Toledo Zoo is a top notch facility with a great little ampitheater. Check out the concert line up, there isn't a bad seat there. |
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa
Post Number: 916 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.90
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:42 am: | |
Rjk, I was reading my mom's Zoo newsletter this weekend and there was an article about Wanda and Winky. They appear to be doing well, Wanda has made friends but Winky likes being around people more. They still sleep next to each other at night. Pacy, you're a troll. |
Pam Member Username: Pam
Post Number: 254 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 67.107.47.65
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:43 am: | |
Winky and Wanda: http://www.pawsweb.org/site/an imals/wandawinky/index.htm I don't mind the Detroit Zoo not having elephants if they didn't feel they could offer them the best living conditions. They did the right thing by finding them a new home. |
Rjk Member Username: Rjk
Post Number: 355 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.41.145.5
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:55 am: | |
W & W sure look pretty happy in those pictures. When you see how nice that place looks I most certainly think Kagen made the right decision. |
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner
Post Number: 148 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 63.85.13.248
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:56 am: | |
Pacypacy has trolled before, he will troll again. He does not mention that there is regional support for the Toledo Zoo. A regional tax pays for almost 30 percent of the zoo's operating costs. Something that has been tried here a few years ago, but was shot down. |
Pacypacy_ Member Username: Pacypacy_
Post Number: 103 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 136.181.195.84
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 12:20 pm: | |
Just calling em' as I see em'. As far as the elephants, maybe they do look happy there, but they looked happy here too. Now our children have to go to Toledo to see an elephant or wait until the circus comes to town. Those elephants had it made here, no predators, free health care, free medical, climate controlled rooms, free food and recreation....if they were in the wild they would have been dead by now and Kagen says they are not being treated humanely here? Is he saying he mistreated them for 40 years? Again, Kagen is a dolt who worships at the PETA alter. Animals are here to serve us, not vice versa. The Toledo Zoo is the berries! |
Czar Member Username: Czar
Post Number: 3125 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 129.137.185.169
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 12:20 pm: | |
^Fucking idiot. |
Rberlin Member Username: Rberlin
Post Number: 558 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 75.7.194.254
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 12:25 pm: | |
Detroit Zoo hands down. Disregard PETA, the Detroit Zoo is probably the best run zoo in the nation as far as animal welfare goes. I'm always amazed at all the rehabilitated and rescued animals they have. Why would anyone want a zoo, like San Diego for example, where all the animals are half dead and pissed off, when you can support something like the Detroit Zoo and know your money is going toward the maintenance and well being of the critters you're going to see. |
Pam Member Username: Pam
Post Number: 255 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 67.107.47.65
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 12:30 pm: | |
Elephant FAQ: http://www.detroitzoo.org/News %10Events/In_the_News/Elephant s_-_Questions_and_Answers/ |
Pacypacy_ Member Username: Pacypacy_
Post Number: 104 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 136.181.195.84
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 1:04 pm: | |
Czar QUOTE: ^Fucking idiot. Now there's an adult response. Are you going to attempt to beat me up after study hall too? :-) All that cut and paste gobbility gook is fine and dandy if you fall into the PETA we should serve the animals mindset, I'm sorry, but I don't. Worried about animal welfare? Worried about endangered or an animal possibly becoming extinct? Make them a delicacy and they will multiply exponentially because they will be bred ...for food. I don't see cows or chickens on the endangered list. If it's your thing to toe the PETA line go ahead but it's my decision not to and it's my right to post my opinion on this site as long as I follow the posting rules. Toledo Zoo is 10 times better than Detroit's. |
Machoken Member Username: Machoken
Post Number: 1300 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 207.145.38.104
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 1:19 pm: | |
Uh yeah and it's our right to say that your opinion proves you are an idiot. Oh, the horror of a zoo director CARING ABOUT ANIMALS. For crying out loud... |
Pam Member Username: Pam
Post Number: 257 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 67.107.47.65
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 1:22 pm: | |
Respect and caring for animals is not an idea invented by PETA. It's been around longer than that. (Buddhism for example.) |
Jjw Member Username: Jjw
Post Number: 111 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.33.56.156
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 1:22 pm: | |
hate to mention this--may be a sore spot--but went to the Detroit Zoo last summer---what a mess---freeway noise, shabby grounds--ugh---i know this topic has come up before on other threads--but why oh why doesn't the state take it over and really do something big with it. probably a dead horse issue--- |
Pam Member Username: Pam
Post Number: 258 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 67.107.47.65
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 1:40 pm: | |
I was just there 2 months ago and it didn't look shabby to me. |
Matt Member Username: Matt
Post Number: 1066 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.49.95.12
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 1:51 pm: | |
Hey Pacy, instead of bitching and knocking down the Detroit Zoo, why don't you be proactive, open your pockets and cut them a nice fat check? Of course, now you have no excuse not to donate some cash as the zoo is being operated by the zoological society. |
Funkycarrie Member Username: Funkycarrie
Post Number: 244 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 69.209.138.56
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 3:20 pm: | |
I love the Toledo Zoo. They redid it back when I was a kid and lived in Maumee. I go back there and get flooded with good feelings. I definitely like their set up better as well, I like that they've attempted to recreate natural habitats. I've actually never made it to the Detroit Zoo, its on my list every summer, and I never make it. I plan on going with my friend and her son this summer, so I'll post a good comparison then. |
Citylover Member Username: Citylover
Post Number: 1619 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 67.36.21.222
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 3:45 pm: | |
So how can you know their setup is better? The det zoo is much bigger than Toledo's.The det zoo was very innovative when it was built showing animals in as natural an environment as posible for the time considering that zos were just animals in cages back then |
Supersport Member Username: Supersport
Post Number: 10192 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.226
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 3:55 pm: | |
Toledo has a kickass Zoo, I grew up visiting it usually at least once a year. The lights before Christmas is awesome as well. That being said, the Arctic Circle kicks ass and is 10x better than Toledo's halfway underground Hippo display. Plus, I heard that a few years ago they did away with the underground tunnel leading you across the road to the zoo, replacing it with a bridge. That tunnel was sweet as hell! The Toledo Zoo would never be the same to me without it. |
Funkycarrie Member Username: Funkycarrie
Post Number: 246 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 69.209.138.56
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 4:05 pm: | |
sport...they took out the tunnel?? NOOOOOOOOOOO what a shame. I remember being 8 and yelling throughout it being thoroughly impressed with the echoes The Artic Circle is one of the main reasons I've been wanting to get to the DZ. Citylover...word of mouth works wonders...but like I said I'd like to make a comparison myself. |
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy
Post Number: 3107 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.47.100.44
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 4:32 pm: | |
Geez, our kids have never seen LOTS of other animals either but I don't see a call out for our Zoo to go out and get them for the children's benefit. At what point does the Zoo have an obligation to YOUR children and at what point does any zoo have an obligation to the welfare of an animal?? It's a VERY precarious slope you stride on when you blame the Zoo & Ron Kagan for not having elephants, pacypacy_. What other animals should we procure for your children's enjoyment and at what cost??? Think about what a zoo's mission is before you cast blame. |
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 273 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 209.220.229.254
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 4:47 pm: | |
He already said what he considers the zoo's (and animals') mission to be: to serve humans (himself, in this case) May the next elephant he encounters see the the levity in the situation, and step on him. |
Pacypacy_ Member Username: Pacypacy_
Post Number: 105 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 24.192.166.67
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 5:03 pm: | |
Matt Quote: Hey Pacy, instead of bitching and knocking down the Detroit Zoo, why don't you be proactive, open your pockets and cut them a nice fat check? Pam Quote; Respect and caring for animals is not an idea invented by PETA. It's been around longer than that. (Buddhism for example.) MATT, I'll cut them a check when they have an elephant exhibit. I patronizied them regularly until they took out the elephants, now not a penny more.Those elephants lived better than most Detroiters, now all of a sudden they are being treated "inhumane", yeah right. PAM. Thanks for that pearl of wisdom, grasshopper. |
Andyguard73 Member Username: Andyguard73
Post Number: 102 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 141.209.33.164
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 5:16 pm: | |
I think Pacypacy had a thing for Winky and Wanda. ;) |
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy
Post Number: 3109 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.47.100.44
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 5:41 pm: | |
Pacypacy_, what if it was determined that the Zoo didn't have the means or the facilities to humanely treat Winky & Wanda? Would you insist on shelling out more of YOUR money to obtain more elephants for YOUR enjoyment?? And technically the exhibit itself is still there- it's just not being used to display elephants anymore. And speaking of being treated humanely, isn't this what our society does to some of our senior citizens? Once they become a burden, don't we insist they live in assisted living?? In essence, isn't this what we've done for Winky & Wanda at their ripe old ages?? |
Pam Member Username: Pam
Post Number: 260 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.41.48.200
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 7:03 pm: | |
In other zoo news- lemurs escape: http://www1.wxyz.com/wxyz/nw_l ocal_news/article/0,2132,WXYZ_ 15924_4785885,00.html |
Pacypacy_ Member Username: Pacypacy_
Post Number: 107 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 24.192.166.67
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 7:07 pm: | |
Oh, so they were being treated inhumanely for the past 40 years? There's a difference between caring for an animal and going overboard to suit a PETA-esque mindset. As I said, I will resume visiting/supporting the zoo when elephants return. As far as senior citizens, those are human's and no one short of tons of red tape and a myriad of legal hoop jumping can "insist" they do anything, save someone with a POA., remember elephants are animals, they are here to serve the higher species, not vice-versa. |
Czar Member Username: Czar
Post Number: 3126 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 72.49.172.67
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 7:18 pm: | |
This dude is either a troll or the dumbest poster in the history of the forum (and that's saying something). I'll write the zoo a check if they bring back the elephants for a day and have them gore and stomp pacypacy for the general public's viewing pleasure. I can guarantee you an elephant is smarter than this asshole. |
Pam Member Username: Pam
Post Number: 261 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.41.48.200
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 7:38 pm: | |
quote:This dude is either a troll or the dumbest poster in the history of the forum
Or he's Ted Nugent. |
Illmatic774 Member Username: Illmatic774
Post Number: 23 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 70.189.142.74
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 7:52 pm: | |
Toledo's is much better. Bar none. Detroit's ain't too shabby at all, but Toledo's is competative on a national level. |
Pacypacy_ Member Username: Pacypacy_
Post Number: 109 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 24.192.166.67
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 8:18 pm: | |
Czar Quote; This dude is either a troll or the dumbest poster in the history of the forum (and that's saying something). I'll write the zoo a check if they bring back the elephants for a day and have them gore and stomp pacypacy for the general public's viewing pleasure. I can guarantee you an elephant is smarter than this asshole. Czar, After reading your childish 4th. grade responses and your junior high level name calling I can safely guarantee you I am not the dumbest poster on this site. :-) |
Citylover Member Username: Citylover
Post Number: 1620 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 4.229.126.62
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 9:00 pm: | |
Illmatic I generally do not tell people when they are wrong but in this case I can't let such an erroneous and misinformed statement stand. The Detroit zoo is 125 acres; Toledo is 75 acres.The Detroit zoo's exhibits for the most part rae bigger i.e. the Lions and Tigers have more room to roam.As I said before when the Detroit zoo was designed it was revolutionary in design creating as natural an environment as they could in those days.For the most part it has served well. Toledo has a fine zoo.Probably as nice a zoo a city the size of Toledo could have.But to say it is hands down better then the Detroit zoo is just plain wrong.You may like it better and that of course is your preference.But about the only thing "better" about the Toledo zoo is it's size makes it manageable for families with small children. |
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 274 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 24.192.25.47
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 9:07 pm: | |
Well, if size is the only criteria, Binder Park Zoo in Battle Creek is over 400 acres, 165 of which are developed. Does that make it better than Detroit? Dunno, never been to Detroit Zoo, but size isn't everything. |
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy
Post Number: 3128 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.47.100.44
| Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 2:41 am: | |
I don't think anyone is saying that the elephants were intentionally abused during the last 40 some years but if our knowledge of how to treat these animals has increased, could it be that they really don't belong in zoos and out in larger facilities like the ones they're in now? Could it possibly be that we (according to pacypacy_) being the higher species accept the fact that maybe the Zoo's elephants are in a better place in the sanctuary? |
Pdtpuck Member Username: Pdtpuck
Post Number: 68 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 208.251.168.194
| Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 4:02 am: | |
quote: where all the animals are half dead and pissed off
nearly pissed myself when i read that one!!! made me think of the lions & leopards hanging around the coffee pot, smoking cigarettes and bitching about the "working conditions" |
Detrola Member Username: Detrola
Post Number: 25 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 69.14.28.209
| Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 6:39 am: | |
Am I the only one that misses the audio information boxes that you turned on with your elephant key? |
Pacypacy_ Member Username: Pacypacy_
Post Number: 111 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 136.181.195.84
| Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 7:43 am: | |
Detrola Nice name, I remember those radio's well, even had a few for a time. I still have an elephant zoo key for the audio boxes. Treatment of animals should be balanced with needs of the people. What were we going to do nurse these elephants until they reach 200 yrs. old? They are in a zoo to be observed by people, which, contrary to popular opinion on this board, is a better option then getting eaten by lions and have your bones picked by hyena's and vultures after you get old. The Detroit Zoo's exhibits are larger...so what? All that means is the animals hide in the middle as is the case with the gorilla's and others and you can't see them. |
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander
Post Number: 1912 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244
| Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 7:50 am: | |
quote:Illmatic I generally do not tell people when they are wrong but in this case I can't let such an erroneous and misinformed statement stand.
I just spit my coffee all over my computer. |
Gambling_man Member Username: Gambling_man
Post Number: 767 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 199.178.193.5
| Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 10:34 am: | |
Toledo Zoo is VERY TINY in comparison to the Detroit Zoo. I agree that some of the displays are better than at the Detroit Zoo, but most are just smaller, making it easier to see the animals. Perhaps now that people aren't relying on the taxpayers of the City of Detroit to subsidize their zoo, they will open their own checkbooks and support the zoo. |
Pacypacy_ Member Username: Pacypacy_
Post Number: 115 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 24.192.166.67
| Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 5:40 pm: | |
Gambling_man QUOTE: Toledo Zoo is VERY TINY in comparison to the Detroit Zoo. I agree that some of the displays are better than at the Detroit Zoo, but most are just smaller, making it easier to see the animals. Now there's a novel concept for a zoo....making it easier to see the animals. |
J32885 Member Username: J32885
Post Number: 40 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 68.41.108.161
| Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 12:28 am: | |
To be honest, I've alway's like the Toledo Zoo over the Detroit Zoo. At least they still have their elephants, compare to ours. Thanks for the update Supersport, about the old Toledo Zoo Tunnel. I'm going to miss it too. |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 2331 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.72.57
| Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 9:59 pm: | |
Maybe the city of Detroit should NOT sell off the Rackham Golf Course, but instead use it for zoo expansion. They could use it as a natural savannah... that way they CAN have enough room to house elephants and other large land animals that require a lot of roaming space. |
Gdub Member Username: Gdub
Post Number: 1044 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 4.229.63.159
| Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 11:52 pm: | |
"The Toledo Zoo's elephants appeared to be healthy to me so why not Detroit's?" I'm sure Detroit's zoologists (or should I say "PETA-loving dolts") would strongly consider such an expert, scientific opinion. If one would take to time to reasearch something one seems to feel so strongly about, one would discover a few truths that might realign their thinking from something "I want my candy now, mommy!" to "mayby all that sugar's not so good for my teeth." Smogboy is right. We have only recently grown out of the P.T. Barnum mentality with new discoveries in animal health. The zoo used to dress up monkeys and make them perform Smokey & the Bear-like tricks on a stage for everyone to giggle at. They used to put kids on the backs of elephants and trot them around. Elephants are accustomed to walking about 30 miles a day. If they are confined to a space that's about an acre in size, their feet will become prematurely arthritic. Winky and Wanda were both around 50 years old. Their ankles were arthritic. In winter, they had even less space to exercise. Now, they can walk freely in a sanctuary that's about 100 times the size of their previous space. They'll live longer and happier as a result. |