Discuss Detroit » Hall of Fame Threads » Old Car Factories » Old Car Factories - 23
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Bartramrosie
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Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 88.109.6.211
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 3:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Any information on cadillac clarke st plant would be gratefully recieved by 1970s line worker Thanks Richard.
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Hornwrecker
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Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are photos on OCF pages 4,12,16, with a Sanborn map on page six. I think there was a bit of discussion on page 16, maybe. Have a look, then come back and tell us what you remember.

Welcome
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Fergusonfan
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 12:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Hupmobile factory wasa located on east Milwaukee ST. Does anybody know when it was closed and if Harry Ferguson rented office space for his staff and engineers there intill his Tractor factory was finished in 1948?
Harry Ferguson had an agreement with Henry Ford I from 1939 to sell the Ford Ferguson tractor which was produced at the River Rouge factory. In 1947 Henry Ford II ended this agreement and forced Ferguson and his staff to move. It is not clear where they went till the new factory on 12601 Southfield RD was finished. Any information would be appreciated.
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Hornwrecker
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 12:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hupp (1912-1941) Milwaukee & Mt. Elliott, demoed for GM Poletown factory in 1981. Photos of Huppmobile factory it on OCF pages 3,8,15 (most on 15), and Sanborn map on page 8.

Someone mentioned knowing the person who wrote the book on Hupp, maybe they'll see this, as I have no info to add.

Admin: some noob posted on page one of the OCF, can it be moved to this page, and can someone please close that page.
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 4:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought Ford shifted tractor production from the Rouge to Highland Park in 1927. Wasn't 1947 the year that Ford stopped making tractors in HP?
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56packman
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 4:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernoisyard--Yes, Ford did shift tractor production to Highland Park in (or after)'27, after Model A production was begun at the rouge. Ford also leased portions of the Highland Park plant to Briggs, who had just lost their Ford-work plant to a terrible fire.
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Iowaboy
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Posted From: 63.91.26.158
Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 11:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You people on this site find some of the most amazing pictures and information. Unbelievable!

On page 8 of the Old Car Factories archives is a map of the Hupmobile factory taken from a book called "How Detroit Became the Automobile Capital." It looks like there are some addresses shown on the various sections in front of the building along E. Milwaukee Avenue. The addresses are a little too small for me to tell what they are. Could someone tell me what those addresses are, and if the odd numbered addresses are on the north side of Milwaukee Ave?
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Hornwrecker
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Posted From: 66.19.17.89
Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 12:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome Iowaboy, the addresses of the Administration Building range from 1033-1059 East Milwaukee in 1915. These addresses were changed in 1921, in a citywide renumbering scheme.

The total range for the Hupp property is from 1001-1075, with the exception of 1013 which shows a house still there in 1915. This is on the north side of E Milwaukee.

As I don't yet have the complete 1921 City Guide, I'm guessing that the 1075 number was changed to around 6300.

Maybe Sven has a higher resolution pic of the Sanborn map that he posted showing the "new" numbers.
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Mikem
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Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 1:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hupp would have been in the 3500-3700 blocks of E Milwaukee Ave (976-1078 under the old address system prior to 1921), north side of Milwaukee, west of Mt Elliott. The north side of Milwaukee would be odd-numbered. The area is now part of the GM Hamtramck Assembly Plant grounds.

According to the paper written as part of the Poletown historical survey, Midland Steel bought the site in 1950, then Michigan Metal Processing occupied the plant from the early 1960s to 1968 when Great Lakes Sugar & Warehousing moved in and used it for bulk sugar storage until 1980.

No mention of Ferguson using the site. Hupp produced autos there until 1941 when it shifted to war production. At the end of the war they diversified out of the automobile business, but it's not clear when and where they moved production, so I suppose it's possible that for a brief time ('47-'48) that Ferguson could have leased some space there.

Hupp Motor Car
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Hornwrecker
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Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Boy, did I misread that old map, time for new reading glasses; only off by three thousand or so.

I've been trying to figure out what that factory did during the war. So far I haven't found it in any books on war production, perhaps the facility was leased to another maker, or if Hupp still existed in some form.
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Mikem
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Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 1:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My source say "Base plugs for bombs and tank components" whatever those are.

http://www.heritageresearch.co m/War%20Facilities3.html#MI
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Iowaboy
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Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you all very much. That is fascinating information. On advertising and other promotional information, Ferguson showed their office address as 3639 E. Milwaukee Ave, Detroit 11, MI. He moved into the building in mid-1947 and used 3639 E. Milwaukee as an office address until sometime in 1951 or 52, I think. After that the office address was changed to Detroit 32, Michigan, which apparently was a Post Office box. I believe the specific Post Office was the Roosevelt Park annex west of downtown Detroit. From the addresses you list, that seems to verify that Ferguson offices were in the old Hupp factory. A lot of this information would have been lost if not for the information on this board.

The Ferguson factory/assembly building was built in 1948 across town at 12601 Southfield Rd (now Freeway). That site is now occupied by Gateway Industrial Center. From satellite photos, the original assembly building is still there although it was expanded by Massey Ferguson. The design of the roof with its skylights make the original building unmistakable.

I thank all of you very much. You have made my day.
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Mikem
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Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 4:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The history of the Hupp factory states that Midland Steel bought the property in 1950 and demolished a building on Mt Elliott to make way for a parking lot. However, nowhere is it implied that Midland actually used any of the remaining buildings, so the possibility that Ferguson occupied the property past 1950 is not out of the question.

"Detroit 11" was the postal zone for the area south of Hamtramck to E Warren Ave. "Detroit 32" was the zone designation for the Roosevelt Park Annex for some time, after which the General Office assumed the number.
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 5:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From the Heritage Research site is this car-related company: the A. O. Smith Co., which was two blocks away from my school in Milwaukee. This firm was the principal auto and truck frame (chassis) builder in North America prior to the unibody introduced during the 1950s. They made the frames for Ford, dating back to the Model "N." One of my uncles worked his entire career there as an expert welder.

During WWI and WWII, they were the leading bomb manufacturer in the US, thereby making it the number #1 target in Milwaukee during the early Cold War.

From Heritage:
Milwaukee Smith A O Corp
peace time: Automobile parts
WWII: Bombs, 500 lb., m-43, bombs, 1000 lbs., bombs, 2000lbs, welded torpedo air flasks

Milwaukee Smith A O Corp
peacetime: Automobile parts
WWII: metal components for 1000 lb and 2000 lb. demolition bombs

Milwaukee Smith A O Corp
peacetime: Automobile parts
WWII: welding electrodes

Milwaukee Smith A O Corp
peacetime: Automobile parts
WWII: Hollow steel propeller blades, landing gears, b-17, landing gears, b-29, fork and nose assemblies, nose gears, b-24, truss, c-47
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Iowaboy
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Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 8:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ferguson magazine advertisements show that Ferguson used the 3639 E Milwaukee address into 1951. Some of these old ads show the year but not the month. An ad from September 1951 in Capper's Farmer shows the address had changed to Detroit 32 which was the PO Box.

The maps and photos on this site show two large Hupp Motor buildings on E. Milwaukee Ave. From those, as well as the narrative, it looks to me like the Ferguson address would have been in the eastern-most building (which sat next to Mt. Elliott St) and appears to be the one torn down in 1950 and would have been the older of the two buildings.

The book "A Global Corporation" says that Ferguson was told by Ford in June 1947 to vacate his offices at the Ford Highland Park Facility and that within three weeks Ferguson had moved into "an old building on Milwaukee Avenue." Ferguson magazine ads in 1947 show 3639 E. Milwaukee Ave as the address and Ferguson continued to use that as the office address into 1951.
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 8:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd bet that "Detroit 32" was not a PO box, but instead the number assigned to its local Post Office--the forerunner to zip codes.
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Iowaboy
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Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 2:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You are right, 32 was not the PO Box number. Ferguson's address as shown in a 1953 Directory of Michigan Manufacturers was PO Box 322, Roosevelt Park Annex, Detroit 32, Michigan. I have been told by a former Detroit postal worker that the zone numbers were incorporated into the current zip code system. A zone of 32 became zip code 48232. A zone of 11 became zip code 48211, etc. Anything with a zone of 32 was destined for a PO box rather than an actual location. Zone 11 (zip code 48211) is in the area of the Hamtramck GM assembly plant. Ferguson's office address back in 1948 was 3639 E. Milwauke, Detroit 11, Michigan. I think it is still true today that a zip code of 48232 mean that mail is going to a PO box. The Roosevelt Park annex is across the street from the old train station (Michigan Central Station, I think it is called).
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Mikem
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Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 10:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You are correct. Detroit 32 addresses would have been used with P.O. boxes. When the Roosevelt Annex was in operation, it carried the Detroit 32 designation, while the main post office was Detroit 31. Some time before the start of the zip codes system, the main office took over the 32 designation.

Roosevelt Annex as "Detroit 32"

Detroit 32


Postal zone 11 in 1946, later 48211:




Box numbers and corresponding stations in 1963:

PO Boxes
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Rustic
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Posted From: 128.36.14.52
Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 10:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I said this in the MF thread, but the MF plant happens to be in 48223 zip (i.e. 23 postal code) perhaps your info re 32 is simply a typo.
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Horn_wrecker
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Posted From: 66.19.25.194
Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I want to post a link to the Ferguson factory thread here, so it will be in the OCF archives.

Ferguson Park thread

Ferguson Park 1956

Ferguson Park 1958
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Iowaboy
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Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 11:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

23 and 32 were separate postal zones, so it is not a typo. Zone 23 was the area of the Ferguson/later the MF plant. Zone 32 was the Roosevelt Park Annex Post Office. There are currently two zip codes: 48223 and 48232. Both can be found on the US Postal Zip Code web site.
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Horn_wrecker
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Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 11:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This was posted on the first page of the OCF by mistake.




quote:

Randy_g
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Username: Randy_g

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Posted From: 69.152.115.183
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 11:18 pm:

------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------
I am new to this forum but I am hooked by the knowlege you guys have here. I am currently looking for the Dodge Main plant during it's demo. Anyone seen that photo? If so e-mail me please.

www.automotivehistoryonline.co m




Welcome to the OCF juggernaut Randy. I'm just learning this mod stuff, and I can't move things to the main page, so this will have to do.

I'm thinking of adding a reference page to the archives with links and other sources so anyone can find something quickly without having to search through 20+ pages. Also figuring out a way to get the OCF db in reduced form so a photo & Sanborn index will be in the same place. Any thoughts or suggestions?
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Iowaboy
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Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 11:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mikem

I searched a long time with no success to find a postal zone map. I asked the Post Office, libraries, Smithsonian, absolutely no luck at all. Thank you very much for that information. Like Randy just said, I can't believe the information and knowledge you all have on this board.
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Mikem
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Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here are a couple of zone maps, but at the largest size the forum allows, they are still hard to read.


1946:



1961:

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Iowaboy
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 6:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank Mikem, I searched high and low for those maps. There are a great value in locating or verifying factory locations. I was trying to determine the street boundaries of zone 23, and can just see them the main divisions well enough. Thanks again
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Mikem
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 10:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The boundaries changed with time. Here's Zone 23 in 1946 and 1961:

'46

'61
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Livedog2
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Has anyone discussed or talked about an "Old Car Factory Tour" with some of the experts on this site as the tour guides? I think it would be a great thing to put on in conjunction with one of these preservation groups. What does anyone or everyone think? Just this past weekend there was a tour of the old Movie Palaces in Detroit and they charged $35/per person. Maybe the money could be squirreled away to self-publish a book about the "Old Car Factories." Just an idea or thought! It could be a legacy from the DetroitYes Forums for future lovers of Detroit history to build upon.

Livedog2
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Rustic
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Neat to see how they added zip codes as NW detroit filled in with housing to accomodate the post war population boom and the thinning out of the inner city ...
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Bate
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Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 4:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Since it was kind of quiet on this thread back in July, I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this article. Packard Celebrates 50 Years of Abandonment

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060705/NEW S01/607050357

There's a video as well (link with article).
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56packman
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Posted From: 129.9.163.105
Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 4:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livedog--I organized/narrated such a tour as part of the Packard convention last month--it was very sucessful, lots of positive comments. In six hours we saw: Ford HP, Ford Piquette, Packard dealership bldg on Cass/Burroughs (WSU), the Fox theatre, Packard plant and the site of the Briggs/Packard plant @ Conner and E. Warren, lunch was @ tastfest.
The busses are the most expensive part (as though that need be said!)
Bate--that article was on the forum the week it was published. see my comments on the "Packard plant on grand blvd" thread from yesterday.
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Iowaboy
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Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 6:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone have a Detroit city directory from the 1948 thru 1950 era. I was wondering what else may have been listed in the 3400 block thru the 3700 block of East Milwaukee, the site of the former Hupp Motor Car factory.
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Livedog2
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Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 8:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

56packman, I wish I could have been there. It sounds like it's right up my alley. I have lots of great memories, stories and vignettes of Packards and Packard Motor Car Company. I'll have to keep my ears peeled for the next time you do this tour, if there is a next time.

Livedog2
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Randy_g
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Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 10:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

56Packman did you take any pictures of the Briggs/Packard plant? Also since your there in detroit could you e-mail me I have other questions I feel only you can answer.

Randy@automotivehistoryonline. com

(Message edited by Randy_G on August 15, 2006)
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Randy_g
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Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Horn_wrecker
Since you have the power what I would suggest is you lock all the old threads so that someone like me doesnt post on a old one and no one will ever see it. Keep what you have as archives if someone wants to go thru the information. There is alot of great information here. It would be terriable if it were lost.

Randy_G

www.automotivehistoryonline.co m
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Hornwrecker
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Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 10:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The only photo that we have so far of the Packard factory at Connor and Warren is an aerial on page 16 in the OCF archives. As ever, we'll keep searching.

I just read your Packard Factory *DELETED* thread on the AACA forum. I'm still chuckling. Don't start any of that here mister! :-)

I have no problem with you using any photos from here that I've tweaked, just try to cite the original source, like Wayne St, NAHC, etc..., to keep them off of our backs.
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56packman
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Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 11:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Randy--the Briggs/Packard Connor plant was torn down in 1959--I took my guests to a parking lot!
It was a trip to Mecca for the many Packard V-8 (1955-'56) owners on the tour.
Hornwrecker-the "Packard Factory DELETED" thread on the AACA forums (I'm known as "Mr. Pushbutton" over there) was humming along fine until I (gently,positively) corrected something Randy had on his site about the Packard plant, a historical boo-boo. This brought out the AACA version of Karl. And that's when the feces struck the air circulation device.
I'm sure there are others that packarge tours such as this. I'd be willing to narrate, if so desired.
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Randy_g
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Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The last thing anyone would call me is a trouble maker, Just recording our automotive past thru photography. Glad to know the Briggs plant is gone. Now I can focus on the Chicago Dodge airplane plant. I know this isnt a chicgo forum but someday I hope to find a photo of it. Thanks again.

Randy_G

www.automotivehistoryonline.co m
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Hornwrecker
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Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 8:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There may have been a picture of it in the book Riding the Rollercoaster, A History of Chrysler Corp by Charles Hyde, WSU Press. I remember reading about that aircraft engine plant in Chicago, and there might have been a photo of it.

http://wsupress.wayne.edu/inde x.html

There are photos, right before demoliton, and plans for Dodge Main at the LOC, but their search function seems to be down right now.

LOC Built in America



(Message edited by Hornwrecker on August 17, 2006)
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Cambrian
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Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 1:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HI! I am new to this Forum. I grew up in Detroit. Love this thread, I really thought I knew something about Detroit, this forum has really opened my eyes to the rich corporate history here. Of particular interest to me is.... Where did the Auto Moguls live? I know of the Ford estates and the Dodge Mansion, Fisher Mansion etc. I am an AMC nut, anyone know where George Mason Lived, or how about Dick Teague? I am quite eager to contribute so.....I do know where Everitt-Metzger-Flanders lived, it is now a nursing home in Orchard Lake.
http://www.bortz.org/modules.p hp?op=modload&name=PagEd&file= index&topic_id=1&page_id=10
If you have the privilage of having business there, as I have, they are quite proud to show the place off.
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Cambrian
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Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 3:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry, where Walter Flanders lived, not he and his two business associates.
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56packman
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Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dick Teague lived in Franklin, he had a 10 car garage attached to his house. I knew Dick, a more genuine guy you could not meet.
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Cambrian
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Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 6:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cool! I know when he passed on in 1991 he was living in SoCal. You wouldn't want to disclose the Franklin address would you? Thanks!
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56packman
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Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 10:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cambrian-I don't remember exactly where it was, you've seen one winding country lane, you've seen 'em all. Dick Was born,raised and educated in So. Cal, and as a child acted in silent film comedy shorts--a sort of low-budget version of the Hal Roach "our gang" series.
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56packman
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Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 10:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here are a couple of shots of the Alvan Macauley's
(head of Packard Motor Car Company) home in Grosse Pointe. When it was demolished in the 70's the dining room was carefully removed and is now in the Charley's Crab restaurant in Troy.


macauley ext


Macauley int
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Iowaboy
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Posted From: 63.91.26.158
Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 2:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I saw a photo on this site showing the Hupp factory with a watertower of the Huebner company in the background. The Hupp factory was at East Milwaukee and Mount Elliott Streets. I saw another source that said the Huebner company was also at the corner of East Milwaukee and Mount Elliott Streets. Where was the Huebner company in relation to Hupp?
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Hornwrecker
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Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Huebner Company was on the east side of Mt Elliott near the RR tracks, and Hupp factory was on the west side. That photo's location was wrongly labeled by me, and later corrected when more info was found. Milwaukee ends at Mt Elliot.

What threw me was that the Hupp factory was greatly enlarged upward, originally two stories. This was a common practice with the type of construction developed by Albert Kahn.
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Iowaboy
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Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 4:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Hornwrecker. That explains it. Very interesting. So Albert Kahn designed the Hupp buildings also? I knew he designed buildings for many of the Detroit auto manufacturers but did not know about the Hupp buildings. I was wondering about the 2-story thing. The early Hupp factory photos show a two-story building, while later photos show 4 stories.
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Hornwrecker
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Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 4:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think that the Hupp plant was designed by Kahn, just that the construction techniques used were the same reinforced concrete that he made famous. If you go to the link at the LOC that I posted above, search for Hupp, and read the data sheets, it should have the answers. The web site is working today.
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Iowaboy
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Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 5:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just to be sure I have the right perspective: On the photo with the Huebner watertower in the background, would that be the Hupp building that is on the corner of Elliott and Milwaukee? Then that must be one torn down by Midland Steel in the 1950's after they bought it?

Also, then that must be Milwaukee Avenue shown on the right?
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Hornwrecker
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Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a quick PS of the map from 1915, too large to get more on this, showing Hupp, the red X where the people were standing in that photo, and the blue starfish thingee where Huebner was.

Hupp 1915

... and again the photo in question.



I always liked that picture too.
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Bob_cosgrove
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Posted From: 68.74.14.158
Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Alvan Macauley Lake Shore Road mansion was later owned by Alfred R. Glancy , Jr. who built the Pontchartrain Hotel and owned the Empire State building in New York City.

After his death in 1973, the family donated his collection of toy trains to the Detroit Historical Musuem, where they and others in the museum's collection are on permanent display.

Bob Cosgorve
Glancy Trains Curator,
Detroit Historical Museum
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Cambrian
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Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Neat! How these people lived outside of work truly fascinates me, my uncle had Dick Teague as a customer, he said Dick's passion were cars of the brass era.
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Iowaboy
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Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hornwrecker, that is fantastic. Thanks a million. For me, that verifies that Harry Ferguson, Inc, rented office space in that Hupp building beginning in 1947 until at least sometime in 1951. You have made my day.
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Iowaboy
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Posted on Sunday, August 20, 2006 - 7:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

About the Continental Motors factory: Were the tractor engines made in Detroit or were they made at the Muskegon Continental Motors factory?
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Hornwrecker
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Posted on Sunday, August 20, 2006 - 12:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Looking at this link to a .doc file on brief history of Continental Motors, I think the tractor engines were made in Muskegon

http://www.muskegonmuseum.org/ documents/Essays/CONTINENTAL%2 0MOTORS.doc
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Randy_g
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Posted on Sunday, August 20, 2006 - 6:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hornwrecker
thank you for the link I will going back to that one for many more things besides just the Dodge Brothers. As for the House of Packard President Alvan Macauley's Ive seen that house before with a New Packard parked in front of it. The Company would take New Packards to his house for publicity photos. Great site! keep up the great work.
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Cambrian
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Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 12:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just listed a cool AMC document on eBay that has a lot of pictures and description of manufacturing processes for the Brampton AMC plant.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors /ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih= 004&item=140021174627&rd=1&ssp agename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
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Mikem
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Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 1:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Randy G asked about the Dodge Chicago plant which was built to produce Wright Cyclone engines for B-29 bombers during the war.

This is a Detroit-related forum and thread, and if we stray too far, the topic could become overwhelming, but I'll post a few items based on these Detroit connections: It was designed by Albert Kahn, owned and operated by Dodge, sold after the war to another (brief) Detroit auto-producer - Preston Tucker, and finally became home to another Detroit auto producer - Ford.







At the time it was completed, April 1943, it was the largest aircraft factory in the world, covering something like 80 acres, and went on to produce over 18,000 Cyclone engines.



Now, if you want more pictures and history, I would recommend "Great Engines and Great Planes" by Wesley Stout, a wartime history of this plant and the B-29. It should be easy to find a cheap used copy somewhere.
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Cambrian
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Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 9:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting! Which Ford plant is that today? I worked at the Chicago Assembly plant briefly launching the DN101, '96 Taurus Sable. It is located at Torrence Ave and 130th St, South Side Chicago.
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Cambrian
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Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 9:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I also have a commemorative plate from the GM Hydro Matic plant at Willow run for sale. I tried this website's classified area, but there seems to be more interest there for 300K mile Cavaliers and old house doors, figured the people on this thread may appreciate the things I have more.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA PI.dll?ViewItem&ih=004&item=14 0004048371&rd=1&sspagename=STR K%3AMEUS%3AIT&rd=1
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Sven1977
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Posted From: 209.220.229.254
Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 10:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are there any old car factories still standing in Lansing or Flint?
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Mikem
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Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 11:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A few sources I've come across say that the former Dodge Chicago/Tucker factory was sold to Ford for vehicle assembly, but other sources say that Ford's Chicago assembly plant has always been at 12600 S Torrence Ave.

Dodge Chicago was at 7401 S Cicero at 77th Street, just south of Midway Airport. Visible in the aerial photo is the same circular highway exit ramp and Kahn's ribbed arch concrete roof. Kahn's initial plans for the plant were rejected by the War Production Board due to the amount of steel required in the design. Kahn then came up with this reinforced arched rib concrete roof design which cut the amount of steel required by more than 50%. The interior photo above shows the arched roof.

Apparently ownership of the plant did pass through Ford, although I don't know if they ever used it. Part of the plant was knocked down to make two separate buildings, and Tootsie Rolls are know made in one of the remaing parts.
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Cambrian
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Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 11:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can speak for Flint! I used to work for GM as a contract employee in the capacity of Manufacturing Engineer. The Stamping plant is still on Bristol Rd, and the Truck plant and V8 Engine plant are still around the corner on Van Slyke. The truck plant in fact was, maybe still is, one of GMs most profitable plants. They produce the Heavy Duty "Dully" Pickups. The production line rate was lower, 35 jph, having more person operated stations as opposed to a more Automated plant like Pontiac East that produces 83 JPH.
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Mikem
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Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 12:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hold the phone...new information from Ford: Decline and Rebirth 1933-1962, by Nevins and Hill:

quote:

Actually it [Willow Run] was not the biggest plant built for World War II. In Chicago Chrysler was even then designing a larger one, with 19 buildings and a main factory so huge that Willow Run could be set down inside it with enough room left to lay out twenty baseball diamonds.




And later:


quote:

...Since 1948 the Air Force had encouraged Pratt & Whitney to find an automobile company to assist it in manufacturing its 28-cylinder engines for B-36 bombers, and Korea [the Korean War] moved the aircraft engine company to do so. In September [1950] the Ford Motor Company received an Air Forces letter-contract to build these engines and on the 20th accepted it. Thus for a second time Ford was to produce a Pratt & Whitney engine, although the R-4360 was a far more complicated mechanism than the R-2800 of World War II.

The site chosen was not the Rouge, where the old aircraft engine building was too small and otherwise employed, but the government-owned plant near Chicago where Chrysler's Dodge Division had built Curtiss-Wright engines half a dozen years earlier. Although less publicized than Willow Run, it was the largest factory in the world under a single roof. Dykstra had been deputed by Breech to find a manager. After a fruitless search he heard Ford say to him, "You are going to head the Chicago plant." "My God - no!" exclaimed Dykstra, but in an hour he was at the Willow Run airport on his way to Chicago. Here he was paged for a telephone call and found Henry Ford II on the line. "What are you doing out there?" Ford demanded. "Well, you put me in charge of this plant," recalled Dykstra. "I'm going up there to look it over." Ford made no comment on this reply. "I want to be the first," he said, "to congratulate you on becoming a vice-president of the Ford Motor Company."

In Chicago the new vice-president threw a flashlight beam about "a rusted-out plant -- no heat, no air, dirty, filthy." Nothing in it could be used. As emblems of the postwar failure of the Tucker Automobile Company, several old Tucker cars stood disintegrating. Dykstra had to make a new layout, tool the great empty shell, gather a staff, and obtain materials. To build up an expert force he brought in 150 Detroit toolmakers and 200 Canadian technicians, took men from Mound Road and Canton, and brought back some Dodge officials who had worked there in World War II. Common labor was available in Chicago, so with a force of 20,000 men he soon drove ahead...

...The company's building program quickly became integrated with the war program. The projected Lincoln-Mercury assembly plant at Wayne, Michigan, was allocated to a J-40 Westinghouse jet engine Naval contract. The Ford Division assembly plant begun at Kansas City took on the building of Boeing-designed bomber wings. The projected Ford tractor plant at Livonia became a tank factory. The Cincinnati automatic transmission plant was tooled to make aircraft engine parts, and the newly-planned Dearborn Engine Building was also partly devoted to such manufacture. Only a few of the new buildings still held to automotive production -- notably the Buffalo Stamping and the Cleveland Engine Plants...

...The Chicago plant made its first deliveries of R-4360 aircraft engines in March 1952. The association with Pratt & Whitney was so happy that the Air Force, recalls Dykstra, "used to point to our relationship as a good example to other companies that didn't get along harmoniously." On July 11, 1952, less than two years after Ford moved into the Chicago plant, the first B-36 bomber with all-Ford engines was flown at the Carswell Air Force base near Fort Worth, Texas. Even earlier Pratt & Whitney had planned to have Ford build a new engine, the J-57, a turbo jet, and in the middle of 1957 Ford had received a letter-contract authorizing the design of production tools for this motor. Chrysler wanted he contract, but largely because of Pratt & Whitney's loyalty to its Dearborn associate, Ford got it. A pilot model was completed in November 1953, but production did not come until after the war, in the summer of 1954. The R-4360 program ended that season with a total of 3,071 engines manufactured by Ford. Meanwhile the company had prepared to manufacture the J-40 Westinghouse jet engine, but changes of the plan by the Navy involving a shift to a new plant, and the termination of the contract in the spring of 1953 killed the project...



There's no further information about the disposition of this plant, but at least we've discovered that it passed from Dodge (Federal government) to Tucker to Ford then eventually to Tootsie Roll!
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Scofield
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Post Number: 22
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Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was looking through the old car factories archives... and saw the pictures for this quote here... (Sorry if I forgot the formatting):
----quote-----
Here are some pictures of the Cadillac plant at Riopelle and East Warren. There is old type above the door that reads, "Cadillac Division."
Whether it started its life that way, I don't know. One of the building is now a cold storage place.
-----end quote------

My grandfather worked there. His name was Earnest Hayes. He was a stock chaser there. He worked there till 1978 or 1979, not sure which, He died with cancer, the fast spreading kind. He is buried in Woodmere cemetary. Thanks for those pictures. My grand father worked so my grand mother and aunt would have a little, little did he know, it would take his own life. :-( :-( :-( My grandfather put a good word in for my dad. who worked at the Clark Street Caddy plant, till he trasferred to the Poletown plant in the mid 1980's.

I was up at my grandfather grave site today, if he could only see the area today, he'd be shocked. :-(

-Scofield


Memories man... wow! :-)
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Mikem
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Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 6:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In researching the Dodge-Chicago plant I found that Preston Tucker was the inventor of the rotating gun turret used in both bombers and armored vehicles.


Scanning the pages of "Great Engines and Great Planes" about the Dodge-Chicago operation, I found several references to the DeSoto-Warren plant. The history of Graham-Paige and DeSoto is scattered across the pages of this thread and I'm not sure if I've included this material earlier, nor have I made the connection that this DeSoto plant was not the same as the one down the road at Wyoming and McGraw. To attempt to condense the history of this W Warren Avenue factory, I've included some material from "Great Planes and Great Engines" and earlier postings on the thread.


First, from earlier forum postings, there's the reference to the plant or at least the location originally belonging to Jewett Motors:

quote:

Harry Jewett was a local businessman who met Paige and supplied the capital to form the company [Paige Detroit] after test driving one of Paige's early prototypes. Paige was forced out later that year and the company's name was shortened to Paige Motors. By 1913 the company had five factories around Detroit and was building a sixth on McKinstry.



and

quote:

The purchase of Paige for $4 million gave them a chance to get into the passenger car business. Their first model was produced in 1928 and was designed by the LeBaron Studios of Briggs (on Meldrum - the one burning down in the picture earlier in the thread). The company suffered greatly during the depression and went into a joint venture with Hupp in 1940 to build cars using the same bodies. Graham's version was the Hollywood and Hupp's was the Skylark. Graham's plant on W Warren...(originally used to build the Jewett Six, a subsidiary of Paige) started the joint production in 1940 but ended up producing only 30 per day. Hupp withdrew from the venture and went into receivership in October 1940.

Graham quit producing autos during the war to concentrate on war production, and coincidently made their first profit in nearly a decade. They decided to permanently withdraw from the automobile manufacturing business due to the extensive capital requirements. During the war they made amphibious tractors, and components for aircraft engines, PT boat engines, and torpedos.



Then, there is the DeSoto timeline I posted with references to the Warren Avenue plant:

quote:

1928 May - The Plymouth Motor Corporation and the DeSoto Motor Corporation are formed.

1928 July - DeSoto production begins at Highland Park.

1929 New Lynch Road plant opens for Plymouth and DeSoto production.

1933 June - production of the DeSoto shifted from Lynch Road to Jefferson Avenue.

1936 Herman L. Weckler planned and managed conversion of plant on Wyoming Avenue for DeSoto production. Plant is opened in September. It becomes the head office and main plant for the DeSoto Division.

1947 Chrysler purchases former Graham assembly plant on Warren Avenue. Becomes part of the DeSoto complex.

1950 DeSoto Body Plant opens on Warren Avenue (former Graham plant)

1951 DeSoto expands Warren Avenue plant to include engine production.


1958 DeSoto production moves from the Wyoming plant to Chrysler's Jefferson Avenue plant for 1959 model year.

1958 Beginning with the 1959 models, Imperial production begins at the old Graham/DeSoto plant on Warren Avenue.

1958 McGraw Avenue plant of former DeSoto complex is converted to glass production.
The main assembly building on Wyoming Avenue becomes the centre of Chrysler export operations in the 1960's.

1960 McGraw Glass Plant begins production.

1961 Imperial production reverts to the Jefferson Avenue plant with the 1962 models. The Graham/DeSoto/Imperial plant is sold.





Now, these passages from "Great Planes and Great Engines", starting on page 97:


quote:

The Corporation's entry into the war-time aircraft field dates back to the October week-end of the 1940 Automobile Show in New York. That summer the White House had drafted William S. Knudsen to head up the Office of Production Management, and Mr. Knudsen had retired as President of General Motors and as a member of the board of the Automobile Manufacturers Association.

This was the first opportunity of his fellow members of the AMA to present Mr. Knudsen with a set of Carl Sandberg's Life of Lincoln, especially autographed by the author. The late Edsel Ford, not a member of the AMA, was present as an invited guest and President Alvan Macauly made the presentation.

When Knudsen rose to acknowledge the honor paid him, his face was grave and his thank you was brief. "I have something serious to tell you," he went on. "I was at the White House yesterday."

With this, he cleared the table before him and unrolled a set of blueprints. They were not for an automobile, but for a bomber. His message was that the automobile industry must prepare to make planes on a large scale, subordinating its own business if need be, to which all present pledged themselves. This was a year and two months before the Japanese attack, but France had fallen and the Luftwaffe had pounded Britain viciously all that summer.

So the industry created the Automotive Committee for Air Defense and rented space in the idle Graham-Paige plant in Detroit, there to display prints, parts and sample plane sections. All manufacturers were invited to examine these and decide what they best could make, it being the original plan that the automotive industry should make pieces generally for the aircraft people.

Chrysler Corporation, unlike its two major competitors, was without experience in aircraft. Though it did not know what, if anything, it was to make in this defense program, it leased on November 11, 1940, at its own risk, 600,000 square feet of the Graham-Paige plant on Warren Avenue. The Corporation did not wish to put up a new building of its own to house a temporary or a problematical business, and as yet there was no Defense Plant Corporation, no 5-year amortization provision, yet manufacturing space soon would be hard to find. Incidentally, Chrysler was to buy all of that Graham-Paige property on Warren Avenue in May, 1946.


Later in 1940 the Air Force decided that Detroit should concentrate on the Consolidated Liberator 4-motor and the Glenn L. Martin Marauder 2-motor bombers, and eventually this Martin B-26 was divided between Chrysler, Hudson, and Goodyear as sub-contractors to the Martin company, for whom the government built a new assembly plant in Omaha. The Chrysler B-26 job, which consisted of making the intricate nose and center fuselage sections, was assigned to the DeSoto Division and the 600,000 square feet of leased space, which became known as DeSoto-Warren Avenue, was put to work. In addition, however, six other Chrysler Corporation plants and 2,700 sub-contractors contributed to this task...

DeSoto Warren Ave B-26 fuselages




Page 106:

quote:

...Martin was making a complete plane under one group of roofs at Baltimore. DeSoto-Warren would be assembling sections of the plane for which many scattered vendors, most of them inexperienced in aircraft work, would be supplying parts and materials. Tubing and wiring would be the only raw stock fabricated at Warren Avenue. At Omaha, these Chrysler-built nose and center sections would be fitted to Hudson-made tails, Goodyear-made wings and control surfaces and Pratt & Whitney engines.




Page 109:


quote:

DeSoto-Warren completed its first fuselage sections early in May, 1942, shipping them to Omaha, and was well ahead of an increased schedule in July when the Air Force was compelled to ask the plant to restrict production to only 65 sets a month and to store these. The Omaha assembly line was modifying already assembled Marauders instead of assembling new bombers. To better the performance of the ship, the Army had made another basic change, this time in the wing flaps. And the wing flaps now were moved from the former contractor and aded to DeSoto-Warren's task.

DeSoto Warren Ave B-26 Flaps

DeSoto Warren Ave Eddie Rickenbacker visit




Page 112:


quote:

Before the plant ever was permitted to reach its scheduled output of 100 a month, the Air Force wired all members of the Martin-Omaha group on July 10, 1943, to cease production at plane No. 1,200, and to prepare to change over to the new B-29 Superfortress...

...The Air Force originally had set up four sources of the B-29, Boeing-Seattle, Boeing-Wichita, Bell-Marietta and Fisher Body-Cleveland. The latter having the least capacity of the four, and in order to make room for another aircraft job there, the Air Force, in 1943, transferred the B-29 out of Cleveland while that plant was still in the process of tooling, and distributed it among the Omaha group. Chrysler was assigned the pressurized nose section, leading edges and engine cowlings, the latter not only for Omaha, but also for Seatlle and Marietta...

DeSoto Warren Ave B-29 Cowls

...The Superfortress nose's bulk was so great that DeSoto was forced to remove some of the sway bracing from the girders of the low-roofed Warren Avenue plant and to dig trenches in the assembly line floor. Even then the nose rose between roof girders.

DeSoto Warren Ave B-29 Nose Sections




Page 115:


quote:

Another Chrysler assignment in the nation's aircraft production program came in January, 1942. This time Curtiss-Wright Company asked the Corporation to take on the job of building the center wing panel - the foundation structure - of the Navy's fastest, strongest and biggest dive bomber of the recent war - the Helldiver.

DeSoto Warren Ave Helldiver Wings

Jefferson Ave Helldiver Wings

DeSoto Warren Ave Helldiver Stampings

The right half was assigned to the DeSoto Division, the left to the Chrysler Division. The Company's Highland Park plant was called on to provide some of the stampings, with important machining work turned over to Plymouth. To the Dodge Aluminum Forge went the task of providing many of the forgings...DeSoto and Chrysler-Jefferson were shipping wings by early May of 1943.




I still don't know when this W Warren Avenue factory was built and when Graham-Paige acquired it, but it appears to have passed from Jewett, to Graham-Paige, to DeSoto in November 1940 for war production, then used for DeSoto body and engine production until 1958, then used to produce the Imperial until 1961.
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Scofield
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Post Number: 23
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Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 8:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Awesome pictures MikeM
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 1459
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Posted From: 12.64.90.226
Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 9:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The earliest date that I've found in the db was that 8505 W Warren was Jewett in 1922, on the truck makers page, but looking at the 1924 Sanborn it says it was built in 1920; the building covers two sheets, so it was large facility when built

Here's a link to a pretty comprehensive history of Paige:

http://www.wcroberts.org/Paige _History.html

(Message edited by Hornwrecker on August 21, 2006)
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 1467
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Posted From: 63.157.75.227
Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 9:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

On to some Packard factory photos that I just found buried in the NAHC site.

Packard Admin 1920s

Packard Admin 1920s


Packard Admin 1931

Packard Admin 1931


Packard 1935

Packard 1935
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56packman
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Post Number: 544
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 65.185.132.134
Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 10:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And here it is in 1956


Packard EGB '56


from the MSU "Made in Michigan" site
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Cambrian
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Post Number: 23
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Posted From: 68.41.154.161
Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice pix of the Packard factory! What does everyone else think about posting factory related items here for sale? I will put that stuff on the classifieds, but it did not seem like the people that look at the classifieds are interested in OCF items.
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Horn_wrecker
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Username: Horn_wrecker

Post Number: 5
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 63.157.75.227
Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You see, that's why that part of the forum was started, as a service to forum members, and to keep selling threads and posts out of other discussions.

It might be a bit different if you were selling photos of an old car factory, posting that image, and then linking it using the formatting tips to be clickable to go to your auction. Splittings hairs, if you will, but bending the rules to your advantage.

These links will expire pretty soon, while it is hoped that the OCF will live on (in infamy).

That's my opinion on this matter.
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Cambrian
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Username: Cambrian

Post Number: 24
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 68.41.154.161
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 12:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, maybe I can post something here letting people know to check the classifieds.
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Randy_g
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Username: Randy_g

Post Number: 6
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.152.115.183
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 8:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I want to thank Mikem for the Dodge Chicago photo's if you could e-mail me I have one other question about it but I dont want to stray off the subject of detroit. This a great forum for all the old factories. You guys are doing a great job here. thank you again for finding the photo's.

Randy_G

www.automotivehistoryonline.co m
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Cambrian
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Username: Cambrian

Post Number: 29
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 68.41.154.161
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've got old Super Service Station mags from 1953 here's some useful info: Regular gas was 27.1 / gallon. Michigan showed 2,040,966 cars in use 7-1-52. Chrysler was calling their parts division Mopar as early as that period, zone 31. American Brake Shoe company or American Brakeblok division was advertising as being from Detroit. No address, just postal code 9. McCord Radiators was postal zone 11. Holley Carb's ad for the improved model 2100 showed an address of 5930 Vancouver Ave, zone 4. GM was callong it's igntion wire and battery cable division Packard, based in Warren OH. Auto Specialities Co, the maker of the Ausco Hydraulic Jack was based in St Joseph MI, but the ad said there was also another plant in Windsor ONT. Just thought I'd post that before I shipped these magz off to thier new home.
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Kathleen
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Username: Kathleen

Post Number: 1512
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.14.122.57
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This might be of interest to some of you...

23 Automotive History Writers

On September 16, come meet the authors of today’s strongest books on self-propelled vehicles at the Skillman Library, home of the National Automotive History Collection (NAHC).

SEPTEMBER 16, 2006, Noon to 4:00 p.m.

23 AUTHORS OF BOOKS FOCUSED ON CARS, TRUCKS, AIRPLANES AND BOATS
Come meet the authors of today’s strongest books on self-propelled vehicles at the Skillman Library, home of the National Automotive History Collection (NAHC). It’s your chance to talk with the authors, ask questions, buy books and have them signed on the spot.


JOHN BLUTH
Stinson Aircraft Co.

BOB ELTON
Hudson, Fun at Work

DAVID LEWIS
Public Image of H. Ford

DAVID ROBERTS
Ford of Canada

BROOKS BRIERLEY
Magic Motors 1930s

GEORGE GREEN
Special Use Vehicles

WALT MCCALL
Funeral Vehicles 1883-2003

JIM WAGNER
Ford Dynasty

JOE CABADAS
Rouge, Ford’s Colossus

LARRY GUSTIN
D. Buick’s Marvelous Car

TIM O’CALLAGHAN
Ford's Aviation Legacy

STEVEN WATTS
Ford, Peoples Tycoon

MIKE DAVIS
Ford, GM, Chrysler

CHARLIE HYDE
The Dodge Brothers

BYRON OLSEN
Oldsmobile, 1946-1960

JIM WREN
Trucks of America

MIKE DIXON
Motormen & Yachting

MICHAEL LAMM
100 yrs. of Auto Style

WILLIAM PELFREY
Billy, Alfred and GM

TONY YANIK
The EMF Company

HENRY DOMINIGUEZ
Edsel Ford

MATT LEE
Classic Seagraves

SINCLAIR POWELL
Franklin Automobile Co.

The Skillman/NAHC Library is located at 121 Gratiot, just one block east of Woodward Ave. There is metered parking on the street and commercial parking lots east and west of the library. Automotive Authors Day is sponsored by the Friends of the Detroit Public Library-NAHC.

For more information, call the Friends of the Library/NAHC at 313 833 4047
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Hornwrecker
Member
Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 1491
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.157.67.227
Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2006 - 9:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Packard Avenue, the truck on the right looks like a 1909.

Packard Avenue early


Packard Avenue 1930-ish

Packard Avenue 1930

Packard lot, probably taken at intersection of Concord and Palmer.

Packard lot

All photos NAHC, Making of Modern Michgan/MSU
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Iowaboy
Member
Username: Iowaboy

Post Number: 14
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 150.148.0.28
Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 12:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You have all been most helpful and I have learned a tremendous amount of information from this site. But I have another question. I hope I am not beating the old proverbial dead horse. I have seen the Sanborn maps on this site that show the Hupp plant at the corner of Mt. Elliott and East Milwaukee. Those seem to show the addrresses before the street numbering system were changed. Is there a Sanborn map that shows the newer addresses?

Specifically, Harry Ferguson, Inc,used an address of 3639 East Milwaukee Ave in his advertising. I am satisfied that was in the old Hupp plant but it would be nice to see the correlating address on a Sanborn map after the numbering change.

My old eyes are not as good as they used to be, so some of the information on the maps on this site are a little hard for me to read so if there is a way to enlarge the address numbers just a bit that would be great.

One other thing I have been looking for is a phone number for Harry Ferguson, Inc, back in the 1948 to about 1953 era. No old Detroit phone books in my local library. Does anyone have an old phone book with the number.

I apologize if my questions are getting repititious, but I find this a rather fascinating search. Even though it a tractor-related topic, I think it adds to the Hupp history. The destruction of the Poletown neighborhood was certainly an awful episode.

From what I have read, Hupp moved their offices Cleveland after the war, but I can't find a more precise date, but I figure they had to have been out by mid-1947 because that is when Ferguson moved in.
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Mikem
Member
Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2769
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 1:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The best I can offer for the new address is that 3639 E Milwaukee would fall between Ellery (3600) & Mt Elliott (3700). A 1940 directory I have has only one odd-numbered address in that block: Hupp Motor at 3641 E Milwaukee.

The only phone book I have from that era is a 1946 Yellow Pages with a Ferguson listing under "Tractors". Initially I thought the address was a dealer or sales office:

Harry Ferguson Inc
15020 Woodward
TOwnsend 8-7400

...but it maps out to be the Ford Highland Park factory site.
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Iowaboy
Member
Username: Iowaboy

Post Number: 15
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 150.148.0.65
Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 3:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, I think the Woodward address is the Highland Park site. Ferguson had an office in the Highland Park plant. When Ford and Ferguson split, Ferguson was ordered out of the Highland Park plant and according to the book "A Global Corporation" Ferguson moved all departments within three weeks into an old building on Milwaukee Avenue. That was mid-1947 so he would have been at Highland Park in 1946. He moved into the Hupp building in 1947 before his factory was built in 1948 on Southfield Road.

I have several old Ferguson magazine advertisements that show the office at 3639 E. Milwaukee Avenue.

From the pictures posted on this site, the agents are in front of the center (or main) door of the Hupp building on E. Milwaukee. That could have been the 3641 address. Although a little fuzzy, another picture seems to show another door on Milwaukee but west of the center door. Could be Ferguson used that door to the west. Could also be that when Ferguson moved in, they just numbered the doors differently.

However, the Hupp address of 3641 E Milwaukee is very interesting in that it is the only address on Milwaukee I have seen that is higher than the address of Ferguson's 3639 E. Milwaukee. And it certainly puts the two in the same block which means they were in the same building.

What would be interesting would be to discover other addresses of other firms in that block at the same time Ferguson was in there. Hupp may have had several tenants in there after they moved to Cleveland.

Very interesting. Thank you very much. You have helped a lot.
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