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Reviving downtown Flint - 1French77776 10-23-06  5:30 pm
Reviving downtown Flint - 2Drt70 10-16-06  5:31 pm
Reviving downtown Flint - 3Gumby48 10-02-06  8:12 pm
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Gumby
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Username: Gumby

Post Number: 1438
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 9:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here are the images from the website provided by scottr. http://cfgf.org/FAQ.htm

THe first one is from the early 1900's. Notice the arched doors already bricked up.
1900's
Also is it just me or does the Dentists name in the window say Dr. Gnodick as in (No Dick) lol. It is larger on the original site. Yeah I know I have the sense of humor like a 12 year old.

This one is from the 1930's. Someone on the www.urbanflint.com forum commented on the irony of the Dentist office above the candy store.
1930's

This one is from the 50's when they added the tiles to both store fronts. Baker Drugs now has a wierd looking brown panel over the shown facade. It is even uglier than this one.
50's

This one is the elevation done by THA a couple of years ago.
2007

This is going to be a great project.

(Message edited by gumby on October 02, 2006)
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Gumby
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Post Number: 1439
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Posted on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 9:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can see the Baker's Drugs on the first picture that Grumkin provided. Man the 500 block of S. Saginaw will look awesome when these buildings get fixed up. Only a couple of more buildings to fix up on that side of the street and with the Mott foundation anchoring the east side and the fact that they turned over 5 vacant buidings to the group responsible for most of the renovations things really are looking up for downtown.


Also William S. White (President of the Mott Foundation) basically guarenteed the other day that Student Housing at U of M-Flint will "Happen sooner rather than later". This is really exciting times downtown.
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Milwaukee
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Post Number: 177
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Posted on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Gumby for more pictures. I sent this thread to my dad and he couldn't believe all that's going on in Flint. He liked your pictures too.
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Gumby
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Post Number: 1442
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Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 9:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not a problem milwaukee. I will keep em coming as long as everyone wants to see them. I am glad your dad was impressed.
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Milwaukee
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Post Number: 199
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Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 12:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are there any plans for Genesee Tower? I heard it's completely empty. I don't know what you guys think, but that is a really ugly building. Are there any proposals to demolish it? Are you guys for or against demolishing it? It makes the Mott foundation building look bad.
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Milwaukee
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Post Number: 200
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Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm also interested in 352 Sout Saginaw. Is that building kept up, run down, or being renovated?
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Scottr
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Post Number: 56
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Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 4:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i think most people agree that Genesee Towers is ugly (not to mention it is quite literally falling apart), but if its torn down, what would we put there? the best option i think would be to renovate it. however, getting the owner to do that seems to be rather difficult.

here's the only thing i've heard about the 352 building:

http://www.urbanflint.com/deve lopment/projects/view/6

so far as the condition of it, i'm not sure, but it's definitely not the worst building downtown, i wouldn't call it run down.

today i took the downtown tour, and i must say i was impressed, even after all that i already knew. the first street lofts are beautiful, and wish i could get one.
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Gumby
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Posted on Friday, October 06, 2006 - 11:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah Genesee Towers is ugly. I, however, do not believe it should be torn down as is the case with the architect I talked to who has drawn up plans for a new facade for the building. Unfortunatly Kumar Vemapaulli (the owner) is not very receptive to plans for fixing it up. It has only been vacant for about 8 years now. He thinks it will be fine to just slap on a coat of paint and call it good.

352 S. Saginaw is still in rather good shape. From what I understand the owner wants to wait until he gets a tenant for the first floor and then he will use the money to fix the elavators so he can renovate the upper floors into lofts apartmets. There are a couple of broken windows on the side of the building but they are double paned so there are no elements getting in. It just needs a little work on the outside to make it habitable.
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Friday, October 06, 2006 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are there any parties who are interested in moving into the Gennese Tower? It definately needs more than a paint job. Do you guys thing that it hurts the skyline? Is that the tallest building in Flint, or is it the Hyatt? How's the Northbank building? That looks really nice.
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Scottr
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Post Number: 57
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Posted on Friday, October 06, 2006 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know of anyone interested in moving into Genesee Towers (it is plural, despite the fact there is only one), at least not in it's current condition. Even if it wasn't for it being ugly, concrete chunks have been known to fall off it, so yes, it definitely needs more than paint.

It is the tallest building in flint, second is Mott Foundation building (the art deco building right next to it). the hyatt follows them. Honestly, downtown doesn't have much of a skyline, especially from most of the views i see. Downtown is very linear (almost exclusively along saginaw st) and consists mostly of 2-4 story buildings, with maybe a dozen buildings any taller than that, most of those from 10-12 stories, and they are pretty spread out. so even though genesee towers is easily the ugliest, without it, you eliminate a huge chunk of the skyline.

Northbank is owned by um-flint, although i believe it still has some private offices in it. behind it is the old autoworld property with the new white building, and across the street is the durant hotel - which really makes you realize just how perfect that would be for student housing. Northbank appears to be in decent shape, although I (a nitpicker) noticed immediately some exterior work was needed - i can't remember specifics, but remember noticing it, but it wasn't major like a wall falling down or anything. overall a nice building though, from what i've seen.
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Burnsie
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Posted on Friday, October 06, 2006 - 4:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mama_Jackson-- Yes, GM closed Buick City after spending many millions on it. But remember, in April 1995 GM announced a $250 million flexible body shop for the plant. That project was cancelled due to rapid shift in customer preference to trucks and SUVs. It also didn't help that a militant faction of UAW Local 599 threw a fit about non-union labor which would have been at least partly involved in constructing the expansion. When all was said and done, GM decided it had enough large car capacity with the newer Orion and Poletown plants.

Mikeg-- Where exactly would the CTS plant have been built in Genesee County? That bit of info you mentioned is very interesting.
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Mikeg
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Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 2:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Early in the program, we had a generic plant layout that we would modify on request to fit within selected areas of different GM properties. The purpose of these "what-if" layouts was to prove whether our new plant would fit within the areas that could be demo'd while permitting some needed buildings to remain in production. One of those "what-if" preliminary layouts looked at how it would fit within a section of the Buick City property and another looked at fitting it within a portion of the Lansing Car Assembly site. Only the Lansing site got the OK for the development of a more detailed layout.
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Mama_jackson
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Post Number: 59
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Posted on Saturday, October 14, 2006 - 10:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Everything is WIDE open now at Buick. They have plenty of room for whatever now.
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Mikeg
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Post Number: 348
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Posted on Saturday, October 14, 2006 - 11:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

To find an assembly job in the area is difficult. Mostly these jobs are outside of the area, Fenton, Holly, Grand Blanc,...




Lansing,...


quote:

Everything is WIDE open now at Buick. They have plenty of room for whatever now.




"WIDE open", just like the plains of Heraclea.
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Trainman
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Post Number: 227
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Posted on Saturday, October 14, 2006 - 8:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What every city needs in Michigan is a county sales tax to pay for bus rides according to mass transit advocacy groups who support the abolishment of the state fuel tax.

But, will this work??????

comments please.
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Scottr
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Post Number: 63
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Posted on Sunday, October 15, 2006 - 12:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

okay, i'll bite, despite the fact i'm willing to bet your reason for asking has nothing to do with reviving downtown flint. although, fyi, the mta terminal in downtown flint is undergoing a $6 million rebuild.

i see nothing wrong with the funding we have in place now for the mta. the millage renewal (for the your ride program) in august passed with over 72% voting yes, which makes me believe there is a good amount of support for it in genesee county. keep in mind, this millage was on the same ballot with a parks millage renewal, an ems millage renewal, a new senior services millage, and a 911 surcharge renewal - all of which passed. some were concerned that 'tax fatigue' would cause one or more to fail, making the passage even more impressive. should the need arise for a higher millage, i would think it would pass - given it's a reasonable increase. the current economic situation in the area makes me think it would get even more support in the future.

i am uncertain of what other, if any, funding the mta receives. in any case, a sales tax would only put more of the burden on the poor, who are the ones that need the bus system the most, yet can afford it the least. not only that, it would cause a patchwork system of different sales taxes in each county, which i feel is needlessly confusing.

don't take that as support for an increase in the fuel tax either. not all those who drive can afford to pay extra for gas, nor do they all have the choice of mass transit. in my own case, no bus system could justify a route resembling what i would need - that doesn't mean i can afford to pay more for gas.

after some checking, mta is also funded by a second county-wide millage (started in 2004), and a flint millage (renewed in 2005). there may be federal or state funding as well, but again, i'm uncertain of that.
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Mama_jackson
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Posted on Monday, October 16, 2006 - 8:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scottr, the "Your Ride" program is for handicapped people. The second millage is for regular MTA bus service.

Mikeg, GM was going to pull out of Flint. It was on the drawing boards since the days of Roger Smith. Don't even try and imply it was because of the unions' actions. Why would GM even try and use non-union labor at a union plant?
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Scottr
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Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 12:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

sorry, mama jackson - your ride is NOT exclusively for handicapped, it is also available if there is no fixed route available (davison, for example). much of the county is not covered by a regular bus route, because there frankly isn't enough interest to keep a fixed route viable, so this helps provide transportation to people without the expense of a nearly empty bus. the people that used to live below me used your ride regularly, because they didn't have a car. they certainly weren't handicapped. while i know some people aren't obviously handicapped, when they did get a car, they never had a handicap tag on it.

also, the union certainly did have some to do with gm pulling out. outsourcing such work as lawn care is often one of the disputes. if the union had given a little in the way of concessions, sure, they would have lost say, a hundred jobs or so due to outsourcing, but they would have saved the thousands of assembly jobs that are now gone. asinine work rules don't help either. i work at a union plant, with few of those rules, and overall, we get along just fine. insisting that only a specific person can do a simple task that anyone can do, and then sitting around for ages while you wait for said specific person, who might or might not show up today, is just stupid. and people wonder why gm moves to mexico?

solidarity is one thing. idiocy is another. the union used to fight for living wages and working conditions. now too often they fight for greed and laziness.

keep in mind, i am a union member. i'm not just some union bashing paper pusher that thinks doing the same thing 400+ times a day is easy. i know better than that. but i can see the writing on the wall, and if the unions don't clean up their act and compete with mexico and asia, none of us will have a job. i'd rather lose 100 jobs than 1000. as much as we'd like to hope, we are not keeping all of them, no matter how much we fight.
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Burnsie
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Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 2:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The union being stubborn had something to do with GM largely pulling out of Flint. But the bottom line is that the wages-- even if they were at non-union levels-- can't compete with Mexico and overseas wages.
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Mama_jackson
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Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 11:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's correct, Burnsie. It was just an quicker way for GM to pull out of Flint, and to show the union how they "should" work with the multi billion dollar company by using non-union labor. We need to work at getting unions across the border and making our laws protect our workers.

Scottr, my brother in law had to work with skilled trades all the time for installations. He never had to wait for them to arrive and do their projects for him. He was the talk of the other salary people, because he always got his stuff done right the first time and on time.

Do you know what his secret was? It was simple: conversation, asking about their family's welfare, having a coffee with them and establishing relationships with the trades people. In short, treating them like humans instead of "assuming" they were "lazy @ssholes".

I have a pretty good idea what kind of union guy you are now. Thanks.
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Scottr
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Post Number: 65
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Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 11:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

by no means do i mean to say all union members are lazy @$$holes. i know first hand that is not the case - and i also know first hand that some are, and union rules make it nearly impossible to get rid of a problem employee, and soon that one person makes the hundred around him look bad to management, and soon the entire union gets a bad reputation. i don't have a solution to that problem, but i do at least acknowledge it is a problem.

i don't really want to get into this here, because this union/management thing really has nothing to do with reviving downtown flint, and therefore this will be the last i have to say on it. suffice to say that the usual militant anti-management rhetoric is not going to get us any new jobs here. holding a grudge gets us nowhere. if the union, and flint, is going to survive as a manufacturing center, the union needs to look forward and adapt, instead of looking backwards and complaining. and I don't mean adapt by giving up half our wages - the union has some pretty good things to offer any company that no worker getting <2 bucks an hour is going to give you, and we need to use that to our advantage.

and no, you really have NO idea what kind of union guy i am at all, and frankly i don't like what you are implying.
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Scottr
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Post Number: 66
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Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 2:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

following up on the previous comments about um dorms, UM board of regents is actually set to vote on friday, and not just discuss, a 300-bed, $21.3 million dorm on parking lot G. no architectual drawings yet, this would actually appoint a firm to design it, for later board approval. it would still be run by the university, unlike previous plans to have an outside developer handle it. from the article, apparently some are still concerned about parking, but the university says they want the students to be involved in the planning, so perhaps that can still be worked out.

my main concern, is what happens to the durant proposal if this goes through? will this make the land bank more likely to tear it down, or might they still go through with the plan for student housing anyways?

http://www.mlive.com/news/fljo urnal/index.ssf?/base/news-39/ 1161094829221300.xml&coll=5
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Scottr
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Posted on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 2:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

um flint dorms were approved!

http://www.mlive.com/newslogs/ fljournal/index.ssf?/mtlogs/ml ive_flintjournalextra/archives /2006_10.html#196702
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Nashhouseonmason
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 1:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah for the dorms! GREAT news for Downtown Flint. College kids will add a whole new energy and that's exectly what Downtown Flint needs. I use to live in Downtown in the 1980s when I went to school at UofM and I loved it. Flint has a lot of potential. I've read many posts on various boards and there are people there that know how to get it jump started.

The dorms will create business opportunities for entrepreneurs and slowly things will bubble. Sustainable business growth, even if it's slow, is what is needed and 300 extra students living in Downtown is perfect.

It's be great if NetFlix or some other large employer of part-time jobs opened a center in downtown. That would create good college kids types of jobs. From there, Downtown could grow and mature.
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Gumby
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 1:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not only were the dorms approved something was finally announced about the Durant Hotel.

Here is text from an article to be in Saturday's Journal.

Newly approved UM-Flint housing could help revitalize downtown, experts say
By Joe Lawlor
jlawlor@flintjournal.com • 810.766.6312

FLINT — New student housing approved on Friday will be a key to revitalizing downtown Flint, say experts working to improve downtown.

“This will change the nature of downtown,” said Dan Kildee, Genesee County’s treasurer and founder of the county Land Bank.

The UM Board of Regents approved spending $21 million today to build a 300-student dormitory on the UM-Flint campus.

Tim Herman, CEO of the Genesee Regional Chamber of Commerce, said the student housing is part of a downtown renaissance that includes new businesses, restaurants, nightclubs and loft apartments.

“We are creating a vibrant new community,” Herman said.

Kildee said it’s not unreasonable to expect that about 2,000 students would chose to live on campus or in downtown over the next 10 years.

Kildee said plans for the Land Bank-owned former Durant Hotel were on hold until the university decided what to do with student housing.

Now that a dormitory is in the works, Kildee said the hotel will be renovated to attract upperclassmen and graduate students who want to live near campus but don’t want to live in a dorm.

http://www.mlive.com/newslogs/ fljournal/index.ssf?/mtlogs/ml ive_flintjournalextra/archives /2006_10.html#196702
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Gumby
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 1:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great news for Flint. I can't tell you how happy I am right now because of this news.
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Scottr
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Post Number: 69
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 3:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thank you for posting that gumby - it was the same link, but they changed the article! the original said little more than 'they voted yes', and included nothing about the durant. great to hear the land bank plans on following through with that too!

however, let's not get our hopes up too high about what this will do. it is great news, no doubt about it - but 300 poor college students certainly are no more the saviour of downtown flint than the tigers & their fans are the saviors of downtown detroit! both help, but far more still needs to be done to make downtown into a truly vibrant, viable area.
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Nashhouseonmason
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 11:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello!
I believe its better to 300 college students downtown than none at all. And as far as them being poor, look at Ann Arbor. That's what a large scale university city can look like. But it didn't get that way overnight. College students always find cash to do what they want to do whether it comes from the parents, extra jobs, credit cards, etc. I think it's big news and huge step in the downtown Flint efforts just as is the Berridge Hotel project in Carriage Town.
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Nashhouseonmason
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 2:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a good example of Victorian architecture in Carriage Town, Downtown Flint.
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Nashhouseonmason
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

More...
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Scottr
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

welcome to the forum nash... nice pictures, although i wish the second was bigger. it's good to see houses being restored and kept up like that. i actually have never been into carraige town, looks like i should really make a point to.

i don't disagree that 300 is better than none. but remember all the expectations of autoworld? 20+ years later we look back and wonder how they could have ever expected all that to happen. now we're getting a dorm, and it's coming across at times as if this is the solution to all flint's problems. it's great news, but let's be realistic - 300 students is NOT going to do that.

UM-F can hardly compare to UM-AA. the ann arbor campus is about 140 years older, and has alumni ranging from presidents to a cofounder of google to almost anything you can think of (list is far to long for here!). maybe, with a lot of effort and agressive expansion and marketing, um-f and downtown flint might just *begin* to resemble AA in 50 years.

again, don't get me wrong, this is great news, and i'm absolutely thrilled about it. i'm just trying to temper some of the expectations before we get a huge disappointment. while most that read this board (and others) know better, the general public may not, and hold that against some when they don't see the improvements they expected.

in short, i'd rather keep my expectations low (but positive) and be pleasantly surprised, than have lofty expectations and be disappointed, if not angry. (i apply a similar theory to the lions!)
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Lowell
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Post Number: 3144
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A super Hall of Fame thread continues. Great pictures and thanks for sharing to Grumkin, Nashhousmason [welcome to the forum both of you!] and our longtime Flint guru, Gumby.

Happy news on the Durant and its new life. Go Flint!
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Mama_jackson
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 3:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am going to jusp in here. I worked at GMI back in the day, and the students complained that there was nothing to do in Flint after 9pm. They want bars and things to do. Somebody with deep pockets should put in a Gameworks or something. It would be a winner, IMO.
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Scottr
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

that's actually a pretty good idea, mama jackson. it would certainly draw from outside downtown as well, and would extend the entertainment options in the area. unfortunately, most of gameworks sites are spread out, and i'm not sure they would want one so close to auburn hills. hopefully i'm wrong - a national name like that would be very helpful. if not, i'm sure a local version could still do okay, if run properly.

watch out for the valley though - when mervyns left, it sounded like they were interested in something similar for that space. i'd MUCH rather see that downtown.
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Nashhouseonmason
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 6:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hey there-
i understand what you re saying about expectations. i think part of the issue that Flint has had is planning and not planting enough "solid" seeds to have them grow. Autoworld was a big bust-who in the world would have believed something like that would have taken off. I say, restore the old buildings (stop tearing things down!) and give the urbanites the City they want. i agree that it will take a long time and Flint's change has been slow. But by bringing real and valuable projects in motion (the new Dorms, the First St lofts, the restoration of the old Dale's Health Food, etc), this is what will create a true downtown fabric. we can only hope that the entrepreneurs will see potential value and start opening businesses.

Flint will change little by little, one step at a time.

More pics of Carriage Town architecture to follow.
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Nashhouseonmason
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 6:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cute!
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Nashhouseonmason
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 6:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1st St Lofts-Flint
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Nashhouseonmason
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 6:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Industrial Savings Bank c 1920, now a part of UofM-Flint
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 6:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Nashhouseonmason, If you've got more pictures, then keep'um coming. :-)
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 9
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 6:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Carriage Town-James Whiting House
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 10
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 8:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Water St-Carriage Town-Flint
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 11
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Flint Journal Bldg, c 1920s, former site of Stone Opera House c late 1800s
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 12
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 8:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Old Flint City Hall on Saginaw St
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 13
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stone& 4th Ave, Carriage Town Flint-Vintage Photo.
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 14
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Old Vintage Downtown Flint Photo
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 15
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 9:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Stockton House-recently restored. On the Michigan State Historical Register. BEAUTIFUL!
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 16
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 9:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

East Side Saginaw St-Flint
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 17
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 9:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Whaley House-Flint's only Historical House Musem-VERY cool! Across from UofM-Flint.
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 18
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 11:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Durant-Dort Office Bldg-Birthplace of GM! Carriage Town, Flint.
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 19
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Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 11:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Durant-Dort Office Bldg, Flint, MI (Carriage Town)
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 20
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Posted on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 12:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Charles Nash House, c 1890 Queen Anne vernacular style, Carriage Town, Flint, MI.
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 21
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Posted on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 12:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Old Victorian Masnion still standing in Downtown Flint
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 22
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Posted on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 12:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

More Victorian Architecture from Downtown Flint
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 23
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Posted on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 12:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Flint's old c 1920s Capitol Theater! Still standing but in need of restoration.
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Gumby
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Post Number: 1448
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 3:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Awesome pics Nash. Always great to see other people interested in Flint here. I am going to suggest like I have to others on here to check out the www.Urbanflint.com forums. We are always looking for more people to participate over there as well. Scottr, Grumkin, and Mama_Jackson have alrealy found their way over there as well. I look forward to more posts by you here s well as there.
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 24
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Posted on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 3:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

More shots of Carriage Town, Downtown Flint
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 25
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Posted on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 3:35 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Better shot of Durant-Dort Office Bldg, Water St, Flint
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 26
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Posted on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 3:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hey there gumby-glad you like the pics. and yup, i saw the posts on urbanplanet.org but my brower's acting up and i cant find a link there to get registered. more pics when i find them!
do you live in Flint?
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Gumby
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Post Number: 1449
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Posted on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 1:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually I wasn't talking about Urban planet. I don't go there anymore due to some BS between me and on of there moderators. Check out www.urbanflint.com it is devoted to just Flint and Genesee county topics and is more active than the Urban Planet site. (You will actually see posts on Urban Planet complaining that I am no longer there). :-)

Here is a link to register on Urban Flint.
http://urbanflint.com/forum/pr ofile.php?mode=register&sid=a5 7d61dbb604f55090bdbd80fec8e359
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Fastcarsfreedom
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Username: Fastcarsfreedom

Post Number: 73
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 3:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry if this has been touched on before--but I was thinking about the mid 1980s downtown renewal attempt--I know the fate of the Hyatt and of Autoworld--but what became of Water Street Pavillion? I know it failed as a shopping center--was it converted to another use or demolished?
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Scottr
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Post Number: 73
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

UM-flint took possesion of water street in 1991, and has been renamed university pavilion (many still call it water street i think - i do!). it contains the bookstore, some administrative offices, student services, and a food court i think. gumby would probably know better, i believe he attends um-flint - the last time i was there was only a couple years after the university took it over.

personally, i think this is the perfect use for it, and in the end, probably the most successful part of the 80's renewal.
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Gumby
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Post Number: 1451
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Posted on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 10:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scottr is correct. I am now graduated from UM-Flint, yay me. The Food court is small with 2 or 3 empty booths it contains a Subway, Baskin Robbins, a Pizza Place, Aida's (Greek and American foods), Blendz (smoothies and sandwiches), and an Oriental express. The university offices contained in are the chancellors offices, Undergraduate Admissions, Registrars, Advising center, Financial Aid, Cashier, and several meeting rooms.

The sign calling it Water Street Pavillion still stands in back at the end of union street next to the State building. It is a great use for this unique building.
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Gumby
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Post Number: 1452
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Posted on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 10:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here are some pics of the Pavilion from last fall.
1
The sign that still calls it Water Street Pavillion.

2
Another shot.

3
The statue on top.

4
The annex used to be used for skating during the winter but is only used for the "Tunes at Noon" concerts during the summer anymore.

5
The side entrance.

6
A shot of the streetscape down Saginaw St. Yes I know there are no people walking around. That is because the picture was took after 6 PM after everything is unfortunatly closed for the day.
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 27
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Posted on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 1:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hey gumby-congrats on graduating! are you heading for your masters in psych at UofM-Flint?
i saw your photo of the Swayze Apts on Court St-forgot about that bldg-love the architecture (1920s-1930s). And what about that could be beautiful Victorian on the corner that had a fire? Is it still there. If you look closely at that building, under the siding you can see what resembles the old Victorian "fish scales". That would be a great restoration project.
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Gumby
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Post Number: 1454
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Posted on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 1:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, that house could be beautiful. It is still there the porch roof is collapsing and it seems to have no future. It is too bad about the lawyer Mr. Holt who died in the fire. They said he set the fire himself and then got trapped in the building the explanation seems a little too suspicious to me.

Right now UM-Flint does not hava a grad program in psychology and wont until fall 2008 at the earliest. I was hoping to go when they originally thought it was starting Fall 2006. Oh well I am currently hoping to get into the PsyD program at Adler School of Profesional Psychology in Downtown Chicago. I am getting my application stuff together right now.
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Furnitureguy
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Username: Furnitureguy

Post Number: 53
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Posted on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the holt house is currently being gutted and the plan is to restore it.. there are 3 40 yard dumpsters on the side and crews have begun demolition and debris removal. The swayze was purchased back in august and has been secured from the elements. The roof has been replaced. I dont know what he plans to do with it though.....it is a great building, huge 1 and some 2 bedroom units. It looks like a sylvester manor inside, w/ decline and decay...
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 28
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Posted on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 7:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thanks for the info gumby & furnitureguy. anyone have any other pics of the Swayze or the Holt House? too bad he died in the fire. i get nervoud though when i hear of someone "gutting" a bldg. so foten they remove all the architectural elements which make the house Victorian and thus unique and charming.
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 29
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Posted on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

515 W First Ave-lost due to neglect

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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 30
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Posted on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hello all-
hopefully you wont think this is an inappropriate ? here but i have a house in carriage town that i want to rent out and i'm wondering what the best way would be to find good tenants. college kids would be cool and i've checke dout UofM's off-campus housing site. any input would be appreciated!
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 31
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Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 12:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The old Flint Brewing Company, c 1896, no longer with us.
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 32
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Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 12:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

First St Loft Building-old vintage photo
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 33
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Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 12:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Carriage Town Flint, the old Durant-Dort Factory #4 and subsequently the old Flint Soap Co., 212 Grand Traverse. This building burned in the 1980s or 1990s.
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Nashhouseonmason
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Username: Nashhouseonmason

Post Number: 34
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Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 12:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Paterson House c1885, Downtown Flint-has been restored.

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Nashhouseonmason
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Username: Nashhouseonmason

Post Number: 35
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Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 1:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Superintendent's Cottage-School of the Deaf, Flint
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Mama_jackson
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Username: Mama_jackson

Post Number: 97
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 2:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nashhouseonmason: Try Kettering.

BTW, Superintendent's Cottage..."cottage"? I would love a cottage like that! Isn't it painted different now?
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 36
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Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 11:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hey mama-jackson, yup, last i saw it years ago, it had been painted nicely. i kind of like the all white with dark wood sashes though. that photo is one of my all time favorites for so many reasons! enjoy your day!
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 37
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Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hey mama-jackson-thanks for the reminder of Kettering! and yes, the cottage has been repainted although it's been a few years since i've seen. quite a bldg!!
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Gumby
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Post Number: 1455
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Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 12:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

By any chance is the building you are trying to rent the Nash House on Mason? If so it is a beautiful house. The Carriage Town District is a tough market at this moment; so much potential and beautiful architecture but a lot of criminal element and drug use. Places like the Berridge Hotel and Carriage Court Apts. are breeding grounds for drugs and prostitution. And until those are cleaned up it will be tough to find good renters. My friend lives on N. Grand Traverse between first and second next to where that old house got fire bombed by the evicted tenant and I have been at his house while a homeless crack head has tried to break in as we sat in the living room; thankfully he realized we were there and he took off. My friend has had to chase this guy off several time because the police don't give a crap (mind you he rents from a retired police officer). Just tge other day the guy came up to the door and tried to sell us what were most likely stolen earrings (they had no backings and he was only asking 5 bucks). Not to mention the Party Store at Third and N. Grand Traverse always has people selling drugs outside and the crazy lady who dances in the middle of the street with traffic going by. She has propositioned my friend several times offering really cheap favors and diseases I assume. She seems harmless enough but it is evident she should be spending more time at CMH a two blocks north.

While I love Carriage Town it still has a long way to go. I always hate leaving my car unattended in front of his house because of the possibility of something getting stolen.
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 38
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Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 1:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hey gumby-bummer about the neg response and view of Carriage Town. i must point out that it takes everyone to act in order to create positive change. Your friend is doing his part by living down there. If 100 or 200 other people who live regular lives, all moved down there, the neighborhood would change. Change starts with each and every one of us.
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 39
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Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 1:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Regarding the Berridge Hotel, are you aware that the Land Bank purchased this building? I was told yesterday that the tenants should be moved out within the next month. The building will then be converted to 20 condominiums with 2 street level retail spaces. This is a HUGE help for Carriage Town. Not only is the element being removed, other average people who can afford to purchase property will be living there. Let's hope there are 20 more urban pioneers willing and ready to make the committment to the neighborhood. The next spot of trouble that needs to be addressed is the apt bldg on 2nd ave between Grand Traverse and Mason. Once that is delt with, the area will be hugely better. There is also the Stone St fill-in project where the Land Bank will be building and rehabing somewhere around 10-15 homes. Change takes time but it does take effort and action by everyday people like you and me. I've made my committment by purchasing property there. If you want to see Downtown Flint succeed, thrive and grow, Carriage Town must also succeed, thrive and grow. Together we can make a difference.
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Furnitureguy
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Post Number: 54
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Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

so are you moving out of the area? if so why? you talked about leasing your house out?
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Nashhouseonmason
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Post Number: 40
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Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 5:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hey there furniture guy...not sure who you are so am reluctant to give personal info. do you live in Carriage Town?
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Gumby
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Post Number: 1456
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Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 8:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My response about carriage town is not so much negative as I stated that I do love the neighborhood, I am just being honest in my evaluation of the neighborhood. It is going to take a long time to get the neighborhood to the point that most people wouldn't mind living there. I mean would you want to raise a family within firing distance of a drug house, I know I wouldn't. The only people that do are those without anyother option.

I agree that it takes everyone to act in order to create a change but the problem is that everyone also includes the police as well. I am sorry but your average citizen going up against a building full of lawlwess drug dealers, I do not like those odds.

Regarding the Berridge, yes I do know that it is getting converted into condos and am very excited about that. Trust if it is a development happening in Flint I most likely know about it, I pay way to much attention to this stuff. Are they still doing the Duplex house next door as well?


quote:

I was told yesterday that the tenants should be moved out within the next month.



This is great news but my question is where are they relocating the residents to? If it is in the nearby neighborhood then it is a futile attempt because the crime stays in the district. If it is outside the district then are we just ruining another neighborhood and shuffling the problem around? What programs are in place to help these people. I know for a fact that many of the residents have been through New Paths (a local alternative for prison that deals with drug and alcohol cases that I used to work at) and if you have heard me talk about New Paths before you would know that I think it is a crappy program with absolutly no results even though they claim a high success rate (lets just say you can make numbers say what you want them too).


quote:

The next spot of trouble that needs to be addressed is the apt bldg on 2nd ave between Grand Traverse and Mason.



Yeah that is the Carriage Court Apts. that I was talking about. I have personally witnessed people going in and out at all times of night to buy drugs. Pulling up with their headlights off and leaving their cars running while they go inside for a couple of minutes all the while cops drive by doing absolutly nothing. I have personally been approached by the young men that stand in the court all hours of the night asking me "what I need" thinking I was walking up to the building. I was nervous as hell to tell them nothing as I was just walking to my friends house nearby.


quote:

There is also the Stone St fill-in project where the Land Bank will be building and rehabing somewhere around 10-15 homes.



I am less optimistic about this happening as it has been talked about for years and I know the owner of a couple of lots on Stone St. and he seems just fine with them remaining vacant.


quote:

hey there furniture guy...not sure who you are so am reluctant to give personal info. do you live in Carriage Town?



If you read on the first page of this thread he states that he lives in the Grand Traverse Neighborhood. I think it is awesome that you have purchased property in Carriage Town. I think Furnitureguys question is a relevant one, I mean if other people should not question the sketchyness of the area before moving there, does the same go for you? Are you just another landlord looking to cash in on the possibility of renewal? Or do you in fact live there and are genuinly working for change in the area. I give you the benifit of the doubt and think the latter because you seem rather well versed on the area and seem genuine in your concern for the area.

Believe me we are on the same side here, I really want to see this area succeed. I am going into it with eyes wide open realizing the huge challenges that this area faces. But when all is said and done I really do believe that it will happen for this neighborhood and renewal will continue outward once done. I mean, just north of Carriage Town in "Hurley East Village" Hurley hospital is considering giving big incentives to its employees that choose to live in the surrounding neighborhood (which needs some TLC as well). Things like this can only strengthen the community.
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Mama_jackson
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Post Number: 124
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Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2006 - 12:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Did you guys hear on TV 12 that the Flint Institute of Music is going to expand their parking and has received approval to tear down three beautiful, seemingly in excellent repair, english style cottages?

It is awaiting approval from the Historic homes group?

The houses look gorgeous!

I can't believe they need to tear these house down that badly with the Whiting parking nearby.
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Scottr
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Post Number: 79
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2006 - 1:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

mama jackson, i have to admit i'm split on that. one on hand, i am very much a preservationist, and hate to see any buildings torn down, especially for a parking lot.

on the other hand, being a former student (about 1985-6, when i was in 3rd grade), when i read the description of the current conditions, i remembered it well. it's not a good situation at all. remember this is a school more than anything - and anyone from an elementary school student to an adult will be walking along that, sometimes in darkness (in winter) and given its recent expansion, and the automotive nature of the area, it's reasonable to expect that more parking is needed. the whiting really isn't feasible for parking for this situation at all - it's too far away.

so what can they really do? we're stuck between the expansion of one of the community's greatest resources, and our history. if this was to be a parking lot for a rite aid or a mcdonalds or something, i'd be very upset. but for something like this? i find it hard to be too angry.

i still wish they would move the houses though.

by the way, it's actually 4 houses. 3 they are offering for free to someone willing to move and restore them, the other has structural problems.

http://www.mlive.com/news/fljo urnal/index.ssf?/base/news-40/ 116256552257380.xml&coll=5

don't get me wrong on this, i am definitely saddened by the loss of these buildings... but i'm not sure i see a viable alternative either.
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Nashhouseonmason
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Username: Nashhouseonmason

Post Number: 41
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2006 - 2:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes Mama Jackson, the houses are beautiful and were commissioned by Mr. Dort on his estate which is now the College Cultural Center. Can you possibly imagine tearing down the homes built by someone who donated the land on which these organizations stand? The homes should stay. Flint should have learned its lesson by now that DEMOLITION does NOTHING good for the City of Flint nor Downtown. After all the demolishing along Saginaw St, is Downtown Flint any better? We only lost valuable real estate and irreplaceable architecure. Now, the City doesn't have money to re-build and when it does, modern prefabs pop up. If people wanted to live Downtown, would most rather live in a modern prefab or a charming, original English Cottage Style home built by our forefathers? It's time Flint wakes up and learns its lessons. Not to worry though, there will be a legal challenge to the HDC's approval of the demo. It has to be approved on the State level. It will be a fight that will be fought hard. You can show your support for the homes on Manning Court by writing each member of Flint's Historic District Commission at City Hall, 1101 S Saginaw St. You can also send your letters of support against the demolition of the homes to the Mott Foundation, the FIM and the Board of Directors of the FCCCorp (Flint College Cultural Corp).

If Flint truly wants to be an urban City, it will design itself so people will walk more and drive less. It saves gas, creates less co2 emissions, people become healthier physically and allows for a denser neighborhood. If people want to drive everywhere and want a parking spot right out the front door of their destination, they should stay in the burbs. If you truly support the preservation of these homes, contact the Historic District Commission (Leann Barkus and Nancy Sinclair voted against the demolition!).
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 310
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 9:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Have the first street lofts been finished yet? Any more development news happened in Flint recently?

Is there a really nice neighborhood north of downtown on the river? I can't remember the name of it, but I heard that it was untouched by the decline that hit many other city neighborhoods.
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Gumby
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Username: Gumby

Post Number: 1470
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 12:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The First Street Lofts are really close to being finished. They have units occupied and they recently finished the entrance way off with a rather cool eagle above the door. I will post some pics when I can. THey appear to have some more work to do on the cornice along the north side but overall it is pretty much done.
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Gumby
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Post Number: 1471
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Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The only neighborhood I can think of that you might mean is either Kearsley Park or Mott Park. There are some nice neighborhoods south of the river that have not experienced much of a decline as well but north of the river those are pretty much the only ones.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 311
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The area is around Hamilton and North Saginaw. Also, is there a pretty rich neighborhood south of I-69 and west of I-75. Somewhere on the city's far southwest side?
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Scottr
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Username: Scottr

Post Number: 82
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 2:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

milwaukee, i think the area in downtown you're talking about is University Park. it's not untouched - it's actually new, the first subdivision in flint in 30 years. i went through it on the downtown tour, they're very nice houses, would fit in well in almost any suburb. (which can be a good AND bad thing - but it's been very successful, so i have no complaints)

there is a pretty rich neighborhood north of 69, and east of 75, along the swartz creek golf course - i think that's what you mean. definitely one of the nicest parts of flint. i believe it's called woodcroft, but i could be mistaken, or perhaps that's only one part of the area. anyways, the area you describe is the airport!

personally, i'm always impressed with the college cultural area. mostly that's because that's where i'm at the most, since i attend mott. there are some beautiful large houses, but even further down court towards dort, there are some small houses that are beautiful, and very well kept up. perhaps when i'm laid off this winter i'll get a chance to get a better look around the neighborhood, as well as some of the other ones...