 
Pam
Member
Username: Pam
Post Number: 4439
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 7:41 pm: |    |
quote:Snopes.com says the tax thing is urban legend.
Here is the link:
http://www.snopes.com/business /taxes/immigrants.asp |
Raggedclaws
Member
Username: Raggedclaws
Post Number: 210
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 7:02 am: | |
^ Exactly. Thanks for the link Pam.
It sounds like we may be getting close to the "well, immigrants are harder workers, more willing to sacrifice to make a business work, keep the biz in the family, etc..." argument for an explanation of the local party store/grocer business climate & trends.
This thread started out with a question about black-owned business, now we're discussing one of this country's ugliest perceptions.
It's not a conspiracy, it's called COMPETITIVE PRICING.
Funny how most EVERYONE seems to have a little prejudice in them, huh ? |
Craigu
Member
Username: Craigu
Post Number: 26
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 10:44 am: | |
Peachlaser:
Great post!! If people would accept that small business owners work harder and RISK everything to reach their goals. Even with hard work and dedication, there is no guarantee of success.
Then, if they beat the odds and are successful, a large percentage of people think they reached their goals on the backs of others. NO ONE goes out of their way to help them; certainly there isn't a bunch of white people saying lets go help them because they are white.
I worked 18 years for a company before starting my own and have risked my life savings and mortgaged my house to stay in business. Every day is still a struggle and I see many people, of various ethnic backgrounds, going out of business by the day. This means they probably risked everything and lost. It happens to the best of us.
Tenacity, hard work and the willingness to risk everything is what differentiates business owners from the rest.I don't think black or white plays as much a role that some would like to believe. By the way, I am white and believe in the city of Detroit.
In closing, I think people should leave the arab business owners alone. They work harder than most people I know. The level of discrimination towards them is sickening. Furthermore, the black people that want to speak about racism should think about the "glass house rule" as the same people are usually the first to speak out about other ethnic backgrounds and intolerance of gays etc...
Racists and hypocrites come in every color; most are just focused on themselves and don't look at "the big picture"! |
Detroiterbybirth
Member
Username: Detroiterbybirth
Post Number: 7
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 10:49 am: | |
I do believe that this urban legend not only comes from some back of the mind bigotries but it could possibly also be linked to the fact that upstarts are exempt from federal taxes for the first 2 years of operation to give them a fighting chance of survival.
The only exception to this is that payroll taxes must be paid. |
Cub
Member
Username: Cub
Post Number: 743
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 11:02 am: | |
Like I said i will talk to him soon. Maybe I can get him to post here.
As far as being a bigot/racist, hypocrite...lol I dont have to go there. |
Umbound
Member
Username: Umbound
Post Number: 213
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 12:29 pm: | |
I cant speak for how arabs run their businesses really, but that "we dont pay taxes" stereotype i have heard in high school, i dont know how it started, I have thought about why some to many people have sour feelings, but White/Caucasian friends of mine have never had any issue with my family having a more privileged life than most average people because they know we bust our asses night in night out dealing with what we have to deal with in some horrid neighborhoods. If anybody we probably pay more taxes than anyone else.
But i cant speak for arabs with businesses in the city most of them are muslim and cant touch alcohol thats why almost almost all gas stations in Detroit are owned by them, they cant touch liquor its against their religion. But what does race matter for? It should just be the merits of the business owners that should matter not the racial background. |
Cub
Member
Username: Cub
Post Number: 745
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 1:17 pm: | |
And you are right Umbound. But for some to get on here and say that there is just hard work and no favoritism and dirty dealings (in this neighborhood) is crazy. This particular store owner busted his ass for years to keep his business going and his property up. I dont see anything wrong with this particular store to have "black owned" on the building in a 99.9% black neighborhood. |
Royce
Member
Username: Royce
Post Number: 2769
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 1:46 pm: | |
So, Umbound, is it safe to say that Chaldeans tend to be the owners of stores that sell liquor and muslim Arabs are the ones who tend to own gas stations? |
Hamtramike
Member
Username: Hamtramike
Post Number: 511
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 2:09 pm: | |
"but it could possibly also be linked to the fact that upstarts are exempt from federal taxes for the first 2 years of operation to give them a fighting chance of survival."
If it is a "fact", then please post the link to the tax code that states new biz don't have to pay income tax if they make a profit. |
Detroiterbybirth
Member
Username: Detroiterbybirth
Post Number: 11
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 2:10 pm: | |
"I dont see anything wrong with this particular store to have "black owned" on the building in a 99.9% black neighborhood"
Why not just having a flag painted continent of Africa in Africa's and America's colors on the building instead as Ive seen in other cities?
It would be basically the same as when Italians, Poles, Asians and others advertise effectively instead of saying Asian owned, Italian owned, Hispanic owned etc etc.
Its just much more PC. When pointing out your skin color on the side of your building it reminds me of suttle racism along the lines of "Hey, Im black, so are you. Why give your money to that Arab guy when you can support someone black"
It just reeks for whom ever has the need to advertise the color of their skin.
But those are just my 2 cents.
I just think any kind of animosity could be all together avoided from others and still effectively gain income producing customers just by following the suit of others and properly displaying your proud heritage.
Saying black owned in my opinion just belittles the black experience in America. |
Detroiterbybirth
Member
Username: Detroiterbybirth
Post Number: 12
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 2:15 pm: | |
Ham,
I just know from experience through my acct. He told me that I was not responsible for anything other than payroll tax for the first 2 years.
On the other hand , I may have misspoke because it does'nt apply to sales tax.
I do apologize. I was wrong. That would be for businesses that do not collect sales tax and clearly a corner store would.
I also could not begin to even try and decipher the tax code. lol
Again, sorry I forgot about the sales tax for goods . |
Umbound
Member
Username: Umbound
Post Number: 214
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 5:41 pm: | |
Royce, straight up, YEA, but my family owns a gas station also and four liquor stores.
But its not All Chaldean's own liquor stores i have a lot of Chaldean friends whose families don't own anything in Detroit at all they have other business ventures in the suburbs, i.e. Plum Market, Happy's Pizza, Six Degrees Magazine just to name a few. |
Royce
Member
Username: Royce
Post Number: 2770
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 2:51 am: | |
Interesting, Umbound. Thanks. |
Raggedclaws
Member
Username: Raggedclaws
Post Number: 211
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 7:21 am: | |
Well, since the "favoritism" thing has almost been put to rest and basically attributed to a certain amount of prejudice against the more "modern" immigrant, I'm curious now about the "dirty dealings" you allege, Cub.
Exactly what is the nature of the "dirty dealings" ? For you to assert so strongly I assume you have details...right ? Is this first-hand knowledge or from your sources ?
And second, do the "dirty dealings" involve only the Arabs ?
I'm not trying to bust your balls here, but you put it out there, now you have to own it. And I'm curious.
Also, Cub's post made wonder: if the assertion is that the Arab-owned stores are "dirty", and the Arab stores are in predominantly black neighborhoods, and neighbors may want to be able to identify the black-owned stores so that they may support those black-owned stores...COULDN'T YOU JUST MARK THE ARAB-OWNED STORES ?
Maybe you could mark them in a really inconspicuous way.
There's really nothing nice about marking or identifying a business by its owner's ethnicity or race, is there ? Sounds kinda complicated, really. |
Neilr
Member
Username: Neilr
Post Number: 773
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 8:37 am: | |
In 2001, Rev. Horace Sheffield and crew started a boycott of Arab-owned gas stations. IIRC, this was not so much a "buy black" campaign as it was an anti-Arab scheme to enrich himself.
http://www.accessmylibrary.com /coms2/summary_0286-10499123_I TM
John Bennett referenced it on his blog in 2005.quote:Sheffield has some history on issues of race, recall the B-Gas campaign. That's where he developed a list of black gas stations in Detroit and asked residents to shop there instead of the Arab owned stations. But in order to get on his list of black gas stations Sheffield requested that they pay him $1,500 each. 8-30-05
This was, in my opinion, in those bad old days when Sheffield and his kind had to grub around for paltry $1,500 "donations," before they discovered what a personal gold mine charter schools and "last chance academies" could be. |
Neilr
Member
Username: Neilr
Post Number: 774
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 8:54 am: | |
In fairness to Rev. Sheffield, I must say that after the tragedy of 9-11-01, he did quietly end his boycott rather than allow it to further incite any anti-arab hysteria. |
Raggedclaws
Member
Username: Raggedclaws
Post Number: 213
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 9:54 am: | |
^ I remember that well, Neilr.
Advocating "support" for one particular group almost always results in the exclusion of another, right ? Hence the confusion with "black-owned" signs - is it proud boasting, or meant to encourage support of a particular orientation, or a way of letting the community know which stores are acceptable and appropriate ? |
Umbound
Member
Username: Umbound
Post Number: 216
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 10:03 am: | |
Cub, not attacking you but, you sure they/their are telling you enough? maybe their/they don't want you to know much about their business like most business entrepreneurs.
That Rev. Sheffield guy is full of BS, like why would you do that when you are "a servant God" and preach love and acceptance when all your doing is just adding fuel to the already uncontrollable blaze of racism in this region. I say shop where you want to shop if you like the place and the people running it if they know how to run it right, not cause their black. |
Cub
Member
Username: Cub
Post Number: 746
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 11:17 am: | |
Maybe so Umbound.
Raggedclaws said:
"Exactly what is the nature of the "dirty dealings" ? For you to assert so strongly I assume you have details...right ? Is this first-hand knowledge or from your sources ?"
I am not anonymous on this board so stating certain facts on the forum may not be in my best interest, but if you want to meet up I can show you better than I can tell you. There are no mo
re black owned stores in the neighborhood. I do not remember saying all Arab or Chaldean owned stores do this and if I did I apologise. But in this neighborhood that I have been apart of my whole life, it was and is going on. Again we can meet up and I can tell you. |
Bragaboutme
Member
Username: Bragaboutme
Post Number: 466
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 11:27 am: | |
All of your religious leaders do this type of thing, it isn't greed trust me. Just because Rev. Sheffields business is out in the open doesn't make all other religious leaders clean and innocent, lets get that straight. What we would call DIRTY is common practice in some circles, and it should stay that way.
I don't understand the uproar over a store in a predominatly African American neighborhood saying Black Owned on it. When driving through some neighborhoods you sometimes have to ask yourself, "are there any stores owned by African Americans"? Meaning it goes beyond just the Mom and Pops, it goes into manufacturing and technical also. The outrage should be over the opportunities that are given to others as opposed to African Americans when it comes to Ownership. These businesses have been feeding off of our neighborhoods for a long time. That is what I'm outraged about, not the Black Owned sign in a window.
I think East_Detroit brought up a good point. African Americans were rapped of their heritage and identity. Today that translates to our community in a detrimental way. While others wave a flag to proudly show their heritage, it shows they're proud of where they come from. If an African Amercan dare say his business is Black Owned it is a sign of division. I don't get it, but that is the way it is. It is breed into the majorities sub-conscious. I don't think it deals with race I think it deals with Identity, or what your Nationality is known for. African Americans have contributed to alot of good things to advance this Country, but we are only indentified by our musical, or sports contributions, many others get over looked. So the ownership is few and far in between.
Umbound, the reason it was spread throughout to support Black Owned was because of the way stores and Gas stations owned by people of Middle Eastern decent were treating there customer base, which is mainly African American. This treatment created a rift between both communities. In some neighborhoods there is no respect for the other side, and vise versa.
I believe Black Owned means a race of people attempting to reclaim or establish an Identity in a playing field where the odds are stacked even higher against them. |
Kathinozarks
Member
Username: Kathinozarks
Post Number: 1395
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 12:06 pm: | |
You know what?
Y'all are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Sheesh. We own a cabin rental business. We don't allow pets. That excludes anyone with pets, BUT it attracts people who don't want pet hair, dander, slobber on the floors and furniture. That is just the way we roll. Our business, our lives. So what.
Maybe it's not the same thing, but jeez Louise....just go out there and shop! |
Cub
Member
Username: Cub
Post Number: 748
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 12:08 pm: | |
Yeah Kathi!•• |
Kathinozarks
Member
Username: Kathinozarks
Post Number: 1396
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 12:11 pm: | |
I'm glad to get a Yeah from you, Cub. |
Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine
Post Number: 2576
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 12:26 pm: | |
I'm all for that, too. The real issue, in a society less racially-divided, would be more centered around the convenience of the shopper. They're on my corner, they have the product I want, they sell it for a reasonable price.
Still, if you were to choose to travel a bit further, and pay a bit more, in an effort to support a specific business because of their specific ownership, what the hell could possibly be wrong with that? |
Bragaboutme
Member
Username: Bragaboutme
Post Number: 467
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 12:32 pm: | |
Cub please explain, are you saying yeah!•• to her analogy or just tired of talking about it?
Kathinozarks I don't get the comparison? |
Umbound
Member
Username: Umbound
Post Number: 217
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 12:36 pm: | |
Cub i know your not saying that about all.
Bragaboutme your response sounds like you just generalized everybody of middle eastern decent now. What does race have to do with running a business, if its ran right and you treat your customers well, the race should not matter, thats why my families stores are some of the most busiest freaking stores in the damn city. If anything and NO OFFENSE and NOT SAYING ALL, but the African American community in the city always have to bring up race in things where it is not even a factor, when you have community leaders promoting division and shit from 20-40 years ago, when they should be doing the exact opposite. |
Kathinozarks
Member
Username: Kathinozarks
Post Number: 1400
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 12:38 pm: | |
Absolutely nothing.
This thread should end on your post Ravine. |
Kathinozarks
Member
Username: Kathinozarks
Post Number: 1401
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 12:39 pm: | |
Btw, do I get a prize for number 1400 post? Probably not, huh. Oh well, ya gotta ask to receive in this world! |
Cub
Member
Username: Cub
Post Number: 749
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 12:40 pm: | |
To her saying just go out there and shop. I will be happy to explain my argument in full, in person or even email. But I can show you better than I can tell you. Again, I am only speaking of my neighborhood. |
Kathinozarks
Member
Username: Kathinozarks
Post Number: 1403
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 12:49 pm: | |
Kathinozarks I don't get the comparison?
------------------------
Bragaboutme, that's ok. I sometimes don't understand most of what I read here. |
Bragaboutme
Member
Username: Bragaboutme
Post Number: 468
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 1:10 pm: | |
"my families stores are some of the most busiest freaking stores in the damn city".
Umbound what stores are these? I am not trying to make it racial. Just pointing out some of the realities this City has faced for a long time. I didn't mean to offend you but I don't know all of the nationalities from the Middle East (there are many), but I was trying not to leave any out, don't get it confused. There are many owners of businesses of Middle Eastern decent that have good dealings with the City, but don't deny the fact that some hold a prejudice against the Community they serve. There is a reality, more businesses are owned by other than African American in predominently Black areas and you can't blame everything on Colmen Young or KK or Archer for that matter. So get it right politicians on a larger level have caused this to come into play. You, Umbound should be upset about different things that I won't go into that have happened to minorities, not just African Americans.
Ok, Cub that is an idea I might take up. |
Umbound
Member
Username: Umbound
Post Number: 218
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 5:40 pm: | |
Oh yea i know that, but you know what there are some people from every ethnic group that doesn't like somethings about other ethnic groups, and unfortunately it cant be fixed to 100%, not trying to have any animosity towards other posters. I really do not have problems with african americans in any way. so nothing personal bragaboutme. |
Mauser765
Member
Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 3110
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 4:07 am: | |
"Did you know that in Harlem, even pre -Clinton, a dollar exchanged hands up to 80 times before leaving the community? In Detroit, that same dollar exchanges hands 4 times before leaving."
shit - a dollar in Detroit changes hands 1000 times over before leaving.. . .
Just not in ways you can measure. |
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