  Carptrash Member Username: Carptrash Post Number: 1501 Registered: 10-2003 |
Here is another picture of "Uncle Bob" Oakman  | ||
Carptrash Member Username: Carptrash Post Number: 1502 Registered: 10-2003 |
But meanwhile, the Charles Oakman of the school turns out to be Dr. Charles H Oakman, carved in stone, no less. Any more ideas on him? Here is CP's (no, NOT Communist Party!••• modest offering to the building. ANd many thanks to Jjaba for spotting my milestone. eeek    | ||
Bc_n_dtown Member Username: Bc_n_dtown Post Number: 39 Registered: 09-2006 |
quote: Hmmm! Good question Swede1934. Could that bridge have been along Schaefer Highway or even a detour built while the expressway was under construction?? My DSR history books don't seem to mention a separate bridge for the Oakman streetcars, although that doesn't necessarily mean one never existed. The DSR extended the Oakman streetcar line from Oakman and Michigan to the Ford Rouge complex via Michigan and Schaefer Highway in June of 1925, after it purchased the line from Oakman. It continued along that route until the Oakman streetcars were removed in December, 1945. I guess an aerial map from that era might help here. BTW—Schaefer (and Michigan Ave west of Wyoming) were the only two points where DSR streetcars would have crossed the Willow Run Expressway. Only the Oakman line and a few extended trips from the Michigan caline through 1946 entered the plant from the Schaefer side entrance back then. | ||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 2648 Registered: 10-2003 |
To follow up Gannon's comment about pear trees vs. peach trees... In another undated [c.1930] article called "Oakman Boulevard One of Detroit's Finest Show Places," there is much discussion on the trees planted on Oakman Boulevard. "Few Detroiters know that during the past two years this city has acquired what is probably one of the largest collections of flowering Japanese sherry trees growing outside of the land of the rising sun.... Today along six miles of Oakman Boulevard in Detroit more than 1,700 flowering Japanese cherry trees have been planted out since 1927, largely through the generosity of Robert Oakman, of Detroit.... In Detroit, along Oakman Boulevard, according to C.E. Smith, superintendent of landscaping and forestry for the Parks and Boulevards System of Detroit, there are 41 recognized varieties of the flowering Japanese cherry tree growing successfully. This represents also the first mid-western and farthest north planting of this variety of tree that has been successfully made in relatively unprotected quantity groupings. ...1,120 flowering trees, including 700 Japanese cherries, were planted out along Oakman Boulevard, which brought this Detroit collection up to the standard of the largest and most varied in the United States,.... There are also 540 flowering Chinese crabapple trees...and more than 100 flowering peach trees....None of these flowering trees bear edible fruit, through some varieties of the Chinese flowering crab do bear small ornamental fruit which persists far into the winter, producing a cheerful color effect and attracting the birds." This arboreal undertaking was quite expensive and was largely underwritten by Mr. Oakman. The cherry trees alone cost more than $250,000 at that time. No mention of pear trees, although if they were few in number as so many other varieties of tree and shrubs and plants, that's not surprising. | ||
Durango Member Username: Durango Post Number: 75 Registered: 10-2006 |
Kathleen, Here is a picture of the blossoming trees mentioned in your post. If my memory serves me correctly, the trees were planted primarily between Fullerton and Linwood in the middle of the traffic islands. Photo source: Wayne State Motor City Virtual Library.  | ||
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 1951 Registered: 04-2005 |
These are a couple of photos of what is identified as Robert Oakman's home on W. Milwaukee, the address appears to be #22 in the first photo. All from WSU/VMC.    It looks like he sold off the frontage on Woodward, the way the house and yard a oriented, and everything else possible. I'll have to check the Sanborn maps to see if anything there will show something. Here's a link to a 1930s map that I scanned: http://picasaweb.google.com/Hornwrecker | ||
Bc_n_dtown Member Username: Bc_n_dtown Post Number: 40 Registered: 09-2006 |
OKay Jjaba, here's the photo I promised yesterday, along with a few more. The first one affirms that the cars actually ran along Oakman Blvd for a short distance after leaving Ewald Circle. I apologize for the poor quality, since they were all scanned out of a book. (All of the following Oakman streetcar photos are from "Detroit's Street Railways Vol II: City Lines 1922-1956")  This photo was taken at Oakman Blvd and the former Detroit Terminal Railroad crossing, north of Elmhurst, on December 9, 1945—the last day the streetcars ran on the Oakman line. The former Palace Cleaners plant (which building still remains today under a different name) can be seen in the background to the right. (Birdsall H. Nichols photo)  This photo shows the private-right-of-way rails that Jjaba would have taken on the Oakman streetcar to the DSR Highland Park yard (the end of the line). This P-R-O-W was used between Hamilton and the carhouse. The current Manchester Parkway roadway runs through this area today.  This photo was taken on Manor Avenue at Morrow Circle in Dearborn, 1945. (Wilber E. Hague photo) (Message edited by bc_n_dtown on December 16, 2007) | ||
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 716 Registered: 08-2006 |
Here is some more on the Aviation Field Subdivision Which has always been one of my favorite neighborhoods. These are from copies of one sheet that could not fit in my scanner. Full size image on the links  http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r50/fareastsider/Aviation1.jpg  http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r50/fareastsider/Aviation2.jpg PLats No.1 http://www.cis.state.mi.us/platmaps/dt_image.asp?BCC_SUBINDEX=17681 No.2 http://www.cis.state.mi.us/platmaps/dt_image.asp?BCC_SUBINDEX=18312 No.3 http://www.cis.state.mi.us/platmaps/dt_image.asp?BCC_SUBINDEX=19544 No.4 http://www.cis.state.mi.us/platmaps/dt_image.asp?BCC_SUBINDEX=22089 Here is some history from the community web site. Apparently the diagonal roads are built where the old runways were. http://www.aviationsub.org/history.html | ||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 2649 Registered: 10-2003 |
Back to the birth and death dates for Robert Oakman.... The dates I have for Robert Oakman are: Born 1863 in Detroit. Married Mamie Moross on August 30, 1887. (That would put him at 24 years old when he married.) There is a Moross-Oakman Mausoleum at Mount Elliott Cemetery. But I've got no details on who is interred within. I do know that Mamie Moross Oakman's family representing a couple generations are buried there. I've contacted Ceil Jensen, the author of the Mount Elliott Cemetery book published by Arcadia, to see if she has any info to share. So, based on the above dates for Robert Oakman, I believe that the Find-a-Grave, which doesn't include a photo of the grave, is not accurate. I checked the Arcadia book on Woodmere Cemetery and came up empty, so I've contacted the author Gail Hershenzon to see if she can shed any light on this issue. If I hear anything from the authors, I'll post that info so that we can clarify the birth and death dates and who is buried where. | ||
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 718 Registered: 08-2006 |
I love the straight to the point names of old subdivisions like this old one by Robert Oakaman. The Detroit Seamless Steel Tube Subdivision! http://www.cis.state.mi.us/pla tmaps/dt_image.asp?BCC_SUBINDE X=16400 Not Oakmans but I love the name of this one. The Blast Furnace Subdivision! http://www.cis.state.mi.us/pla tmaps/dt_image.asp?BCC_SUBINDE X=17644 | ||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 2650 Registered: 10-2003 |
For jjaba! Some photos of the Parkman Branch Library on Oakman Blvd. west of Linwood...     Enjoy!! | ||
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 720 Registered: 08-2006 |
 http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r50/fareastsider/Oakman7.jpg | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 2422 Registered: 01-2005 |
1930 Census showing the Oakman home at 22 Milwaukee. Robert is 69 and shows his occupation as Real Estate Developer. No surprise there.  He is at the same location in the 1920 census, only the address is shown as 12 Milwaukee. In the 1910 census, his mother in law is in the home even then. She states she has had 14 children, 12 of whom are still alive. The Oakmans, however, were without issue. I wonder if his "Moross" in-laws tie in with Moross road? I cannot locate Robert Oakman in the 1900 census. (Message edited by Ray1936 on December 16, 2007) | ||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 2652 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yes, Ray1936, Mamie Moross Oakman is descended from the Moross family of brick and building fame after whom the street is named. I'm actively pursuing the birth and death dates as well as final resting places of Robert and Mamie Oakman. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 2424 Registered: 01-2005 |
Did some more digging and finally located him on the 1900 census. That year's census is of interest because it is the only one that asks each individual's month and year of birth. Anyway, Robert Oakman is listed under Moross, which is why I couldn't find it at first. The mother in law is listed as the head of household at 12 Milwaukee. Robert states his date of birth was May, 1861, and Mamie May of 1863. They have been married 13 years, which gives a marriage date of about 1887. As you know, the 1890 census does not exist. | ||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 2654 Registered: 10-2003 |
Thanks, Ray!! I mentioned earlier that Robert Oakman and Mamie Moross were married on August 30, 1887. I have his birth year at 1863, and nothing for Mamie. Hopefully I'll hear back from my contacts in the next couple days. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 2425 Registered: 01-2005 |
OK....post what you find out, will you? I sure love digging up deads.......  | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5764 Registered: 11-2003 |
What wonderful research, HOF thread developing. No threadjacking, which is out of respect to all of you. jjaba had his Bar Mitvah in May, 1954 at Beth Moses Synagogue on Linwood, just South of Oakman blvd. The bldg. was quite new and Jews only lived in that neighborhood a short time afterwards. We rented the day since jjaba's family were not memebers anywhere. This shul is listed on the synagogue tour with jjaba comments. You can rent a Bar Mitzvah venue. It is nice income for the congregation and the kiddish after the service is donated by that family so the regulars get a nice spread at the family simcha. (Liquor, wine, chopped liver, herring, bagels, cake, a Challah, etc.) Since the Bar Mitzvah Bukkor has to chant a Torah portion, it can be at any synagogue in the World on that Shabbos. jjaba prepared well at United Hebrew Schools on Dexter Blvd. and was ready. As he chanted, the guests ooohed and aahed and the more they loved it, the better jjaba performed. The Orthodox members there enjoyed us. For this one day, Dad was a shtarker (Big Shot.) Two yrs. later, jjaba's brother had his Bar Mitzvah at another rented place on Wyoming and Curtis. Dexter-Linwood was changing so we went Uptown a bit. For High Holidays, we went to Downtown Synagogue which rented the Veteran's Memorial in the new Civic Center. They had a big crowd of unaffiliated Jews from all over town. Mr. Agree ran the servies. jjaba appreciates the research of Hornwrecker, Kathleen, bc ndtown, Carptrash, Fareastsider, Ray1936 and others. jjaba asks what yr., make and model on the Oakman Streetcars he rode. jjaba, Westside Memories. | ||
Bc_n_dtown Member Username: Bc_n_dtown Post Number: 41 Registered: 09-2006 |
quote: Well Jjaba, a lot would depend on what years you rode the Oakman cars. During World War II, the federal government's Office of Defense Transportation (ODT) mandated that streetcars had to be used in place of buses whenever possible to conserve rubber and gasoline. This resulted in the DSR's campaign to convert its rail lines over to buses being put on hold until after the war. Consequently, the DSR had to restore 125 old retired streetcars and place them back into service. These steel-body cars, the majority of which were built by the Kuhlman Car Co., were originally purchased by the privately-owned DUR company between 1915 and 1917. All but one of these cars still used coal stoves for heaters. These resurrected cars ran during the war, and a few no doubt on the Oakman line.  This photo of car #3017 was posted by "Busterwmu" a week or so ago on the DSR Hall Of Fame thread, and is an example of the steel body type cars that were resurrected for use during WW-II. Some found service on the Oakman line. More than likely, however, Jjaba traveled the Oakman line on the Peter Witt style cars. These made up the bulk of the DSR's streetcar fleet prior to the 1950's. They were purchased by the city of Detroit between 1921 and 1930. These cars were the norm for the industry back then and were designed by Peter Witt, a street railway commissioner in Cleveland who later became that city's mayor. At one time there were 781 of these style streetcars operating on Detroit streets. The DSR's Peter Witt fleet of cars were built by various manufacturers, including the Kuhlman, McGuire-Cummings, Osgood-Bradley and St. Louis Car companies. The DSR had 776 Peter Witt cars still operating in December, 1945, when streetcar service on the Oakman line was discontinued.  This photo shows the model of streetcar Jjaba and his mom rode most of the time on the Oakman line. Peter Witt style car #3902, built by the St. Louis Car Co. in 1930, is seen here at Oakman Blvd and Woodrow Wilson. (photo source unknown) | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5768 Registered: 11-2003 |
Wow bcndtown. Thanks so much. You sure THE maven on the streetcars jjaba rode from 1941-45. jjaba remembers both models quite well, even so long ago. jjaba remembers weaving and bobbing walking along in the Manchester Yard. The DSR tried to clear the platforms and walks, but in winter like now, it was hard to maintain. When we reached the Woodward line, we were glad to get more delux cars which were much warmer. On the return, jjaba recalls that there was always an Oakman car waiting but sometimes you had to sit in the cold with the doors open. That was reasonable since the motormen had to rest and take a break. jjaba recalls how it was fun to hear the motors start up and thought it was cool to be on at the terminal. The line had to make some twists and turns getting out onto Oakman Blvd. jjaba, Westside Memories. | ||
Msamslex Member Username: Msamslex Post Number: 25 Registered: 06-2007 |
Bc_n_dtown, Thanks for the info on Greenfield and the name changes. And also for the streetcar pic running down Manor into my street. It's so hard to imagine the streetcars running through the neighborhood. Very fascinating. Wonder why the street names were changed over the years? Convenience, a whim, or a correction of something, or the road layouts? Leob, Growing up I was always told this was part of an airfield hence the name Aviation. What year was this? Gannon, When we moved over here, the house next door was empty but eventually a family move in. Right at my garage and the neighbor's fence there was a plum tree. It always had big plums on it and one of the branches was so big it hung down over the fence. We enjoyed them so much and it was suprising to me (I was just a kid) that there was a fruit tree right next door. Fruit trees were supposed to be on farms not in city backyards. The neighbors eventually had it cut down. I don't remember why if it was because it was dying or what but it was nice to be able to pick them when they ripened. A neighbor two doors from me has a pear tree that still bears fruit. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 11140 Registered: 12-2003 |
I think the number one reason fruit trees got chopped down is dads quit trying to race the squirrels to the ripest ones. | ||
7_and_kelly_kid Member Username: 7_and_kelly_kid Post Number: 31 Registered: 12-2007 |
hey!........isn't everybody still buying war bonds?............Oh...Oh..... .I'd better check on that deduct......... | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2459 Registered: 07-2004 |
That second picture of the street car looks like it is travelling down either Rosa Parks. The Michigan Bell building is the building in the background and it's clear that the street car is not running in front of it. What can you tell me, Bc_n_downtown or Jjaba? | ||
Bc_n_dtown Member Username: Bc_n_dtown Post Number: 42 Registered: 09-2006 |
Royce, I wish I had more information. The individual who sent me the photo some months ago only stated it was taken at Woodrow Wilson and Oakman. I tried to enlarge it to view the route destination sign but the photo wasn't clear enough. However, it had to be one of two car lines that traveled within the vicinity of the Michigan Bell Building during the late 40's. Of course one was the Oakman line, which traveled along Oakman from Linwood to Hamilton. The other line was the Trumbull car line, which approached that area from the north via Fenkell, south on 12th, east on Oakman, and then south on Woodrow Wilson (reverse northbound). Obviously, this was before the Lodge Freeway eliminated Woodrow Wilson street from that area. I see I'm going to have to drive by there tomorrow with photo in hand and try to determine the exact location. (Message edited by bc_n_dtown on December 17, 2007) | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5771 Registered: 11-2003 |
Bc n dtown, be careful in the snowy weather. And beware of The Forum. You can't slip too many by us. Once you get a reputation, you'll find some piling on which comes fast and furious. As they say, try to avoid tough sledding. Thanks again for your good research. jjaba on the Westside. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5772 Registered: 11-2003 |
FRANCIS PARKMAN LIBRARY, 1726 Oakman blvd., Detroit. Built: 1931. Marcus R. Burrows, AIA, Architect. Marcus R. Burrows, 1874-1953, worked in the Albert Kahn Office and rose through the ranks of status to President of Michigan Society of Architects. His specialty was English Revival bldgs., a sign of the status of the 1920s. Owning an English Tutoresque home in Detroit was the real deal back then. The auto moguls wanted to be Baronial. Burrows worked for Straton and Baldwin, Architects and in 1914 had his own firm. Later, he joined Frank Eurich as Eurich and Burrows. In 1916, he was President of the Detroit AIA Chapter. Burrows had an office at 415 Brainard in the Architects Bldg. When he died, 1,000 buildings had his name on them in Detroit and vacinity alone. He was 79 yrs. old at death. Burrows designed the Parkman, the Gabriel Richard, and the Duffield Branches of the Detroit Public Library, and the Mc Gregor Library, Highland Park. He designed the Grosse Pointe High School, the Grosse Pointe Hunt Clubhouse, and the Grosse Pointe Golf Clubhouse. He designed hundreds of homes and mansions all over the region including Birmingham, Grosse Pointe, Bloomfield Hills and at Cranbrook. If you look him up, you'll find some exciting addresses. With AlLbert Kahn totally engaged with Ford's auto plants, the River Rouge, etc., he referred clients to Burrows. George Booth's Cranbrook Estate has several Burrow's commissions for example. jjaba. | ||
Bc_n_dtown Member Username: Bc_n_dtown Post Number: 43 Registered: 09-2006 |
quote:  Royce, I got a chance this morning to check out the location of the photo in question, and it was indeed taken at Woodrow Wilson and Oakman as was stated. However, the streetcar is traveling southbound on Woodrow Wilson just south of Oakman Blvd. The Michigan Bell building in the background faces Oakman Blvd. and sits on the northeast corner of Oakman and Woodrow Wilson. Therefore, this would make car #3902 in the photo a southbound Trumbull streetcar heading for downtown—after having just turned off of eastbound Oakman. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5774 Registered: 11-2003 |
Pfeiffer's Beer advert. on the side of the #3902. Looks like motorman could use a beer right now. Good research. Thanks. jjaba. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 2429 Registered: 01-2005 |
Trivia: The little guy with the fife in Pfeiffer's advertising was "Johnny Pfeiffer". But I'll bet Jjaba knew that. |
