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Archive through December 21, 2007Ray193630 12-21-07  12:28 pm
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 2165
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, December 21, 2007 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It was roughly 60' x 110' to the exteriors, or 6,600 gross SF per level.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 4202
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Posted on Friday, December 21, 2007 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is surely not its demise. You can look at it a couple ways: closing and securing it means that it will be preserved such that it never reaches Broderick Tower status before it gets redeveloped, or it has already been falling into obsolescence, with few if any tenants, and shaky landlords. Actually, both of those perspectives are true. I'd hardly say that this is the end of it.
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Gistok
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Post Number: 5969
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Posted on Friday, December 21, 2007 - 2:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree Mackinaw... it's also likely that the city will not allow it to be open to scavengers, such as the Book-Cadillac, Statler and United Artists Buildings were in the past.

I think that with the B-C work continuing across the street, the last thing the city will allow is an open abandoned building across the street. It will have to at least be secured.
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Mackinaw
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Post Number: 4204
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Posted on Friday, December 21, 2007 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://jcbeal.com/project-book .asp

just thought I'd share this. their webpage on the Book is still active.
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Gsgeorge
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Username: Gsgeorge

Post Number: 484
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Posted on Friday, December 21, 2007 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So are their photos of Washington Boulevard before they took out the monkey bars.
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Club_boss
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Username: Club_boss

Post Number: 250
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, December 21, 2007 - 3:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I found this one,

http://www.westinbookcadillacr esidences.com/index.htm


"few choice units are still available, register on line or call 313.580.2200."

I called the number, answering machine for Esquire Properties.
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Gumby
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Username: Gumby

Post Number: 1678
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, December 21, 2007 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Book Tower is different than the Book Cadillac. Same street different sides.
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Harpernottingham
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Username: Harpernottingham

Post Number: 310
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, December 21, 2007 - 8:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Book Brothers built both of those buildings.

But yes, that's a common mistake.
The Book-Cadillac Hotel is an entirely separate structure from the Book Building, which is attached to the Book Tower.

None of the three buildings has anything to do with books. That was simply the surname of the brothers -- J.B., Herbert, and Frank Book.

I used to work in the tower from 2000-2002.
Was run then by Susan Lambrecht.
She seemed to be working hard, but getting nowhere. The elevators were out quite often, and so we had to climb 21 flights each morning.

All kinds of problems back then with water, heat, air ... you name it.

No wonder my bosses moved outta there.

Hope better days are ahead for the ol' girl.
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Eric
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Username: Eric

Post Number: 1050
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Posted on Friday, December 21, 2007 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is certainly disappointing news, progress in this city always seems to be two steps forward, one backward. You revive gems like the Book-Cadillac and Fort Shelby only to have another close up.
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 819
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Friday, December 21, 2007 - 9:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

- lets all chip in on this building and restore it to its old glory. only 10 Million.

Listing Info: 11/17/07
Book Bldg - STEAL at this PRICE
1249-1265 Washington Blvd
Property Description: Once in a life time opportunity to snap up an immensely profitable investment property - A popular office tower under renovation is being offered for sale at cost.
FOR SALE:
Primary Type: Office
Office Building
Building Size: 426,500 SF
Building Class: A (That IS funny)
Price: $9,500,000
Price/SF: $22.27
Year Built: 1917
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Hagglerock
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Username: Hagglerock

Post Number: 472
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 22, 2007 - 4:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sad. Didn't the owner recently spend money to power wash the building? Prepping it for a sale?
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401don
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Username: 401don

Post Number: 175
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Posted on Saturday, December 22, 2007 - 9:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think it's at least another 10 years in Detroit's recovery before the Book becomes viable as a mixed use building. How much would it cost to "seal" the building? Do you keep the utilities running to preserve them or just keep out the water damage and assume everything will need to be replaced anyway? Right now the price might as well be $1. You still need a market opportunity and deep pockets.
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Ramcharger
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Username: Ramcharger

Post Number: 504
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Posted on Saturday, December 22, 2007 - 11:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Will a vacant Book Building make a Quicken Loans Headquarters a block away less likely?
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Burnsie
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Username: Burnsie

Post Number: 1237
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Posted on Saturday, December 22, 2007 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hagglerock-- Roughly half of the Book Bldg. was cleaned, but the rest of it, and the entire Book Tower, is still filthy.
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Gsgeorge
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Username: Gsgeorge

Post Number: 497
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 22, 2007 - 12:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Over 80 years of car exhaust, smog, dirt, dust and grime covers the Book. Clean it and maybe someone will take a look at it and think it would make a good hotel or apartments. It used to be WHITE, with a gleaming gold copper roof. I've always been a big proponent of this. CLEAN THE BOOK.


bookpost
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Jasoncw
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Post Number: 465
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Posted on Saturday, December 22, 2007 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've never seen a photo of the building being clean. I'd love to see one though.


Nowadays if the building were cleaned, I don't think it would get dirty again very fast.
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Fishtoes2000
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Post Number: 372
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 22, 2007 - 6:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You guys shouldn't judge the Book by it's cover.

[All apologies if that pun's already been played.]
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 827
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Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 9:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

funny thing is they paid about 5 mill for this building so if they get near what they want 9.5 Mil. they will come out ahead.
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Kslice
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Username: Kslice

Post Number: 245
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Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 10:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, right now the book has the smog from 60's and 70's cars on it, before they even has cat converters. Cars today are a lot cleaner.
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Lowell
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Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 1:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Drove by last night... the tower and building were both completely dark, only a small shop in the building had some lights on.

On the post card, what is the building on the Trolley Plaza footprint? Sure likes like an improvement.
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Gistok
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Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good eye Lowell...

IIRC there were only ever a few short buildings on that site, and nothing as grand as that pictured 13 story building. Since this is not a photograph, I think the artist took some liberties in painting the steetscape as being grander than it was.
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Gistok
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Post Number: 5984
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Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 2:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In this "wishful" circa 1929 post card, there's no building next to the 1926 tower at all, so these post cards can often be inaccurate.



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Sg_creative
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Username: Sg_creative

Post Number: 30
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 2:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's my second favorite looking building in the city, next to the Guardian Building. Will be curious to see what eventually happens...
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Swingline
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Username: Swingline

Post Number: 983
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 10:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anybody have any updated info on the litigation regarding the sale of the Book Tower and the outstanding DTE bills? Who really owns the building right now? The whole sale to the Pagan group was a huge clusterf**ck. When title to a building becomes clouded, a boarding up often follows. Security also becomes a problem.
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Renfirst
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Username: Renfirst

Post Number: 150
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Posted on Tuesday, December 25, 2007 - 12:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lefty,

Is the building on the market? Where'd you get that listing information? Is it on the MLS?
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Busterwmu
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Username: Busterwmu

Post Number: 413
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 25, 2007 - 11:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Drove by this building around 9PM tonight and noted lights on on several floors on the side facing the river. At least we know DTE didn't cut the lights on them.... yet.
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Mccarus
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Username: Mccarus

Post Number: 4
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Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 12:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Folks, I'll try to make a public radio report out of it. What suggestions do you have for me trying to get inside tomorrow, wed Dec 26?

Chris
michigannow.org
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Billk
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Username: Billk

Post Number: 190
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Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 1:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Book Tower may or may not be closing, but this whole thread is based on a first-time poster on Dec. 20 (Christmas break?) who claimed he snuck past a security guard to gain access. Then on the way out, the security guard spilled the beans to a complete stranger...
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 5994
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Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well... if the building is closing... then they may no longer have a reason for a security guard... which would tell me that any security guard on his/her way out of a job, and would sing like a Canary...
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Club_boss
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Post Number: 256
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Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"http://jcbeal.com/project-book .asp

just thought I'd share this. their webpage on the Book is still active."

Taken from the same page:
"Estimated project completion is mid 2009. For purchase, leasing, or investment opportunities, contact the Book Building and Tower management offices at (313) 962-3180

Number is disconnected, "no further information is available about..."
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 1080
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Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The second postcard shows the 81-story addition that was to be built. The Great Depression shelved those plans.
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Jasoncw
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Post Number: 467
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Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 6:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That website is from around 2006 when Pagan Group (or whatever their name is) bought the building and planned for the renovation.

Also, that website is the construction company's website. They don't own the building or have anything to do with it other than getting hired to do construction work for the project, which may or may not still be happening.
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Deandub11
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Post Number: 191
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Posted on Monday, December 31, 2007 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Haven't read the whole thread so if i'm repeating something I apologize. I do know that the building is on the market. I've heard that the city is offering monster tax breaks for buyers interested in turning portions of the building into "for rent" apartment units.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 4248
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Posted on Monday, December 31, 2007 - 3:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That would be a beautiful thing.

I'm fully in support of such a use of incentives by the City.
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Kslice
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Post Number: 250
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Posted on Monday, December 31, 2007 - 4:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In a way, it's good the depression came when it did. If it had come 10 years later we'd have a empty 81 story Book building downtown, 2 Fisher Buildings with a empty 60 story tower between them, and who knows what other huge buildings would have been built that would now sit empty.
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Fareastsider
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Posted on Monday, December 31, 2007 - 5:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

But perhaps with such large capital investments and diversification of industry Detroit could have set a foot hold to prepare and better plan itself and establish itself as a city of more than industrial wealth.
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Gistok
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Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 2:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kslice, I think your logic is slighty off... we don't know for example, what other business Detroit could have "grown" in that extra decade.

Only some businesses went belly up during the Depression remember. And if there was another 10 years before a depression (using your analogy)... then who knows... Detroit's population could have quickly climbed another 1/2 million or more above the predepression figure... and maybe the downtown working population could have been 150% of what it was.
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 2:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This new year--2008--marks the eightieth anniversary of the Detroit boom turning to eventual bust. The surrounding burbs became cities by then, limiting the areal size of the city.

Ford moved its auto production to Dearborn from HP and made farm tractors there instead. HP used to be a posh suburb before then--far from what it is now.

Detroit's population peaked somewhere around 1928, and the financial troubles leading to the Great Depression with capital funding for any further skyscraper building also dried up during 1928. That's the main (and really, only) reason that the other two components of the Fisher complex were never built. The city's boom ended during 1928--and its going downhill started then.
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Mwilbert
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Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 9:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think that Detroit's population peaked around 1928, as it went up another 300-400 thousand by the 1950s. Certainly its growth had peaked by 1928, but that isn't the same thing. You also could argue that the late 20's were its peak of commercial vitality, but that isn't the same thing either.
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 10:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Having the 1930 Census occurring a year AFTER the Market Crash would led one to erroneously believe that Detroit had increased and peaked in population during the late 1950s. Actually, it probably did not peak exactly fifty years ago, but, instead, eighty years ago.

Some Detroit historians pegged the late 1920s as the peak in population. They stated that Detroit was even the third largest city back then, surpassing Philly for a brief time and being in excess of two million.

There's lots of unofficial, supporting anecdotal evidence pointing to 1928, though. But the jobs spigot got turned off a couple years before the 1930 Census and took its toll, and many discouraged newcomers had little choice but to leave a community that traditionally had little alternative employment.

BTW, the recession during 1958 was more like a Depression for the area than a mere recession. Ironically, that year was pegged as the population's high-water mark...

(Message edited by Livernoisyard on January 01, 2008)
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Burnsie
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Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernoisyard, nobody's saying that 1958 was the population peak. Many historians, who have done a lot of research, have concluded it was no later than 1953.

Detroit's 1930 census count was 1,568,662. For your claims to be true, it would have had to lose more than 500,000 people in two years-- highly damned unlikely.

Detroit's 1950 census count was 1,849,568. All the sources I've read, except for you, have pegged it as rising to just about 2,000,000 by 1953, then rapidly declining.
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Mwilbert
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Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 11:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is really unlikely--you are suggesting that more than 300-400 thousand people left Detroit in those two years. The Depression wasn't even in full swing until 1930-31.

I don't know who has suggested this, but it doesn't seem plausible at all. If you have a reference, I'd like to see it.

(Message edited by mwilbert on January 01, 2008)
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Fareastsider
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Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 11:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also Detroit was mostly farms north of 7 mile and west of Livernois in the 1920s! That outer area took in lots of residents into the 50s. I realize the core lost density then but I would say the early 50s was the population peak.
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 12:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I lived at 42nd and Capitol Drive in Milwaukee during the 1940s and 1950s. In the early 1950s, the city limits extended to 51st Street along Capitol Drive. Capitol Drive is probably Milwaukee's equivalent to Grand Boulevard. Milwaukee today extends to 124th Street along Capitol Drive, although some of that area is also included in the suburb of Wauwatosa--by the Harley plant on Capitol Drive near the County line.

In 1950, Milwaukee's census population was 637,000 and its highest census figure was in 1960--741,000. In 2000, its census count was 597,000--less than it was in 1950, although its area probably more than doubled since then. The other counts were: 1920 457,000, 1930 578,000, and 1940 587,000.

Another variable is the accuracy of any census enumeration itself. The 1930 census has been available for public inspection since 2002, I think.

My maternal grandparents in Detroit got married in 1920 and lived as an extended family with an older cousin's family right across the street from the Federal Motor Truck Company for some three years or more until they bought a double lot in Dearborn during the early 1920s. Immigrants living in fairly large extended families (higher densities) was commonplace during the 1910s and 1920s, but not so common later.

(Message edited by Livernoisyard on January 02, 2008)
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Philbert
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Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 12:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

omg the grim reaper is back lol

it was so nice not to to read about the end of the world all the time.

so sorry Detroit, its back

alas, people get off on different things
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Charlottepaul
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Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 10:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Went to Bookies in the tower on Monday just in case...
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E_hemingway
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Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Everything looked like business as normal there when I walked by this afternoon.
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Fareastsider
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Posted on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 10:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sadly I havnt been downtown in about two weeks....whats the word on the Book?
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Billk
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Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2008 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Still operating as usual.
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Bobj
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Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2008 - 5:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is anything open other than Bookie's??
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Charlottepaul
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Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2008 - 7:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Doubtful--when I sent to Bookies over the break, they had a sign on their front door saying that it was not to be used as an access into the tower. On the other hand, when I had always previously gone there, you could step out the back door and into the tower's hallway (to talk on a cell phone for example away from the bar noise).
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Lefty2
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Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2008 - 9:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Renfirst
Sorry for the late response, I was up north ice fishing and chowing on venison stew and skiing :-)

I got it from a website listing the sale. I lost the link, but believe me it is true. A commercial broker can help with the search via loopnet or costar.

btw, I lived behind the book brothers grandsons, quite some characters. always having things going on.

Costar says its Class C Broker lists it as Class A. A little discrepancy somewhere eh.
http://www.costar.com/FreeSear ch/Detail/Detail.aspx?p=1DB43D 048C800786F84883D8561872A5
Link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B ook_Tower

http://www.ksifunding.com/lend ing_Study.php?ID=20\
Lender of last resort. (Or of not due diligence.)
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2008 - 9:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lefty2: How much ice did you catch? They're very tasty when caught at this time of year.
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Lefty2
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Post Number: 870
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Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2008 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I got a 5 gallon bucket of perch and a few crappie and bluegill. Very Tasty. Deep fried in beer batter, Yum. In less than two hours no doubt. Use a bright piece of bait before a worm so they can see it.
I will even give you my secret hiding place. On Intermediate lake near Ellsworth, The only city in Michigan with not only one but TWO 5 star restaurants. Tapawingo and Rowe Inn. The fish are dying to be taken, like taking candy from a baby.
Everyone should have such a great experience in their life. (edit late to lake)

(Message edited by lefty2 on January 08, 2008)
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2008 - 10:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The two things I miss the most after leaving Madison after 27 years there was my annual (under $200 then) membership in the Memorial Shell gym attached to Camp Randall (football) Stadium. Indoor 6-lane 200-meter Big Ten track, all the equipment, BB courts, indoor hockey rink, and much more.

The other was fishing in the four lakes there--the largest 10,000 acres and the next smallest about half that. But Lake Wingra (only about 1 mile in diameter) was my favorite, and one morning I caught and released four muskies in three hours right by the Zoo entrance.

Back when the daily bag limit was 50 (instead of 25), after work I'd catch my bag limit of crappie using a triple hook rig and sometimes getting two or three at a time by the lock and dam separating the two larger lakes. Usually took less than an hour for fifty crappie.
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Lefty2
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Post Number: 873
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Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2008 - 11:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Never fished in Wisonsin. I heard in northern WI there are get great runs of lake trout and salmon.
LY, You gotta check out the runs in the spring near Lake Charlevoix Lake Michigan. From early April to early May the activity is awesome. Fish eating fish everywhere.

BTW the Book tower is for sale at 9.5 Mill.
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Livernoisyard
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Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2008 - 1:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was fortunate to live on two farms (172 and 151 acres) south of Madison and both had trout streams about 100 or 150 feet from the house. The trout were mostly babies. At first I thought they were minnows and I set out my minnow traps. But, they were hundreds of baby rainbow and brook trout instead--sometimes a red sucker fry. Baby trout are not legal to fish with...

And hunting (deer, rabbits, etc.) was legal as long as the minimum distance from the road was obeyed.

That meant sitting-by-the-back-door "hunting" was legal. My coon hounds had a hoot. They caught rabbits on their own.