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Archive through December 12, 2007Usnsubvet7730 12-12-07  12:14 pm
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Jams
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Post Number: 7270
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Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 10:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Gazhekwe for those stories.

And Plymouthres, I'd suggest enlisting Gazhekwe in the cause of those MOHs, she always amazes me both with her vast knowledge and her political acumen.

Hope you meet her in person, she's great, and I only spent an hour talking with her, but she raised questions for me that I've spent many hours researching since.
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Gazhekwe
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Post Number: 1103
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Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 10:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BLUSH!! I really enjoyed our talk, Jams!
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Plymouthres
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Post Number: 316
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Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 9:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jams-

Perhaps I will be lucky enough to meet her-I am hoping that one day she will just appear at one of the FSC's that I'm at. I agree with you that she is very knowledgeable and would be a great asset to the cause, for sure.

As I have recently learned of my Native American heritage, she has been a wealth of information to me as well on this forum. She should be proud of her representation of our people and her willingness to get the facts out, and correctly, too!

That being said, maybe we could corral her into a membership in the HFWC? We could sure use her influence and knowledge as we begin the task of correctly representing the NA interest at Fort Wayne.

After all, before it was a fort, it was one of the few areas of gathering in the southern part of the state for Native Americans and a distinctive place as such. Telling that story without someone like her helping would be just plain wrong, in my opinion.
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Gazhekwe
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Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 9:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We are going to try and get all three Indian organizations in Metro Detroit re-involved with Fort Wayne. NAIA was formed in the 50s, I remember going to meetings about it in people's basements, when I was a tot. SEMII was born in the late 70s or early 80s, and the SE Mich Indian Health has been around since the 70s. A former director from Indian Health is around, too and would be a great resource. Indian involvement with Ft. Wayne has been strong in the past, with the museum, and Medicine Bear Academy. It would be a good goal to get that museum open again, and of course, restoring the Mound would be a great way to showcase our history. I have been cogitating on ways to get us really motivated.
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Gnome
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Post Number: 464
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Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 9:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Plymouthres-
I know it's common knowledge that there is a large Indian burial mound inside the walls at Ft Wayne; but what I've always wondered about, is why did the original builders of the fort keep the mound intact?

Maybe it's just an assumption, but I thought that back in 1847 the white folks held Native culture in pretty low esteem. I would guess that they would have simply destroyed the mound. Now, about that time, Hank Schoolcraft was a pretty well-known ethnographic expert. Was he somehow involved in saving the Mound?
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Plymouthres
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Post Number: 317
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Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 9:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Medicine Bear Academy building, although in a slightly deteriorated state, is one of our targets for rehab and soon! Part of the problem is the long and ugly history that the NA's have had with the CoD and the many folks who previously ran the Historical Commission. HFWC is there now, and I can assure those that are interested that we are the genuine article and we hold much more influence with the Recreation Department. The "sins" of the past will not occur again, as we have many NA members who are eager to re-establish the NA connection there.

It is not a goal to re-open the museum, it is a reality. It is only a matter of time and effort, and of course dollars. We are currently looking at sometime next year as a general target. Rick is on the advisory board, but has not attended a meeting that I have been to yet. I am hoping to personally make his acquaintance so that we can begin some planning with his organization.

The mound, of course, is in that scheme of things, too.
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Usnsubvet77
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Post Number: 72
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Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 10:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gnome,

The beauty of Fort Wayne is that all of it spans so many generations from 1840-present. The characteristics of the buildings as well and the physical aspect of the land evolved with the passing of time and necessity.

The original construction of the Fort was just the Star Fort and the 5th point, or demi-lune that extended to the river. The river itself came but 50-100 yards from the fort walls. The burial mound was on property owned by the military. However, that exterior property really was no purpose other than a drill/parade area.

The indian burial mound was excavation was granted in autumn 1875 with permission of the War Department and Detroit Scientific Association. It did no start until May 22, 1876 by Henry Gillman. At least from Gillman's journal article to the 1877 Proceedings of The American Association for the Advancement of Science, the excavation was completed in a very scientific manner. Whether it was appropriate of not is another matter. The above document provides the reader with a VAST resource of items uncovered during the excavation an detailed description of what the mound looked like. (These articles can be read in their entirety by a google search, LOTS of medical jargon, so beware)

As for why the mound was left intact seems to me that there was no reason to level it. According to Gillman, his initial measurements was the mound was situated East to West, roughly 75ft in diameter and 5ft above the parade ground (in the 1870s).

There never really seemed to be a reason to level it in the 1840-1900 era. Until rumors during WWII where the Army leveled it and supposedly reconstructed it after the "error" was identified. I have seen no documentation to back up this rumor though.

Hope this answers some questions (in more detail than desired I'm sure! laugh)

(Message edited by usnsubvet77 on December 13, 2007)
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Plymouthres
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Post Number: 320
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Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 11:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gnome-
Good question about Schoolcraft. He was indeed what you describe and I will get you an answer asap.

I have been to some of the presentations given by our very own Jim Conway, current custodian for the Fort. He has, at times, gone into great detail about the insensitivity shown by whites for their failure to properly deal with the mound.

One of the many things he espouses in his dissertations about the fort and it's history are the archeological studies that have been done there to the mound, and he has some of the smaller details spelled out in his recently published Arcadia Press book about Historic Fort Wayne.

It seems to me that I have heard various stories but what I know is that there was quite an inventory done of the pottery shards and bones of the mound, as one of the archeological ventures recorded that and the fact that some the deceased that were uncovered during the excavation were found in a seated position, and many bones were still protruding from the sides. In an effort not to disturb more than they needed to to get some documentation on the contents of the mound, none of the rest of the mound was disturbed.

Further, the mound was dated to the time of the Hopewell Indians, btwn 700-900ad if i remember correctly. The Hopewell were the predecessors of the later Algonquin tribes(help please from Gaz here!
Read Subvets response as he is also spot on!

I will continue to persue the answers to your questions and try to provide some relief!

PlymouthRes
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Gazhekwe
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Username: Gazhekwe

Post Number: 1108
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Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 11:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Schoolcraft happened to be married to a very well-educated Ojibwe woman who was an uncelebrated source for all his stories and knowledge.
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Plymouthres
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Post Number: 322
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Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 11:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Gaz, I knew you would help out!
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Gnome
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Post Number: 465
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Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 1:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gaz,

I seem to remember that she supplied the root stories which formed the basic outline for Longfellow's "Song of Hiawatha"? jane or Joan ...

Didn't Schoolcraft also set up indian schools in Labre Croce, Cross Village, Petoskey, etc ... or am I getting my great white explorers mixed up?

My point is, were some of the elder indians that recruited soldiers for Company K actually the intellectual decendants of Schoolcraft?

or is that just too thin a line to draw?
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Gazhekwe
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Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 1:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Too thin a line. Jane died young, after a long illness. She was instrumental in his publications, especially his weekly periodical. After she died, he remarried and basically abandoned Jane's and his children. He was ashamed of their Indian ancestry. That was the times, they were willing to glorify the Indians of the past, while turning up their noses at the Indians of the present who were seen as definitely inferior.

This bio of her says she had no formal education, but she did attend a convent school in Quebec.

http://www.turtletrack.org/CO_ FirstPerson/CO_04052003_JaneJo hnsonBio.htm
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Gazhekwe
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Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 2:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

History of the school at Arbre Croche (which is the same as Cross Village):

1823 – The Odawa Indians petition President Monroe and U. S. Congress for a "teacher of the Gospel."

1827 – Father Peter De Jean visits L’Arbre Croche, baptizes 21 people.

Early 1829 – Father De Jean returns and transfers mission to Ville Neuve, the beginning of today’s Harbor Springs.

May 1829 – Bishop Fenwick of Cincinnati appoints Fr. De Jean pastor of St. Peters, the new mission of L’Arbre Croche. Two rough log buildings house the church, school and parsonage.

Summer 1829 – The school opens with 13 day-students and 25 boarders. The Indian population is approximately 500. Father De Jean baptizes 97 through the next year.
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Gnome
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Post Number: 466
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Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, guess my opinion of Henry Schoolcraft has dimmed a bit.

Below is a pretty interesting bit of history, not too sure if I understand the whole thing, but it appears that mixed-blood children were awarded cash for being of mixed-blood. Not too sure why they decided to do that in 1836, but it seems that quite a few folks made a bit of dough. Henry Schoolcraft appears to on the receiving end of several thousand dollars.

jeeze, this history stuff is interesting...
http://www.grboi.com/pdf/1836m b.pdf
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Gazhekwe
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Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 2:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greensky Hill Methodist Mission also had a school near Petoskey. That was set up by the Methodist Peter Greensky in the 1840s.

You see these two Greensky men on the Company K roster, likely children of Peter and Susan:

Greensky, Benjamin C., - Charlevoix; Enlisted 10 Sep 1863 at Little Traverse for 3 years, age 24, Mustered 21 Oct 1863. Promoted corporal. Killed at Spottsylvania, 12 May 1864.

Greensky, Jacob, - Grand Rapids; Enlisted 2 Sep 1864 at Grand Rapids for 1 year, age 18, Mustered 2 Sep 1864. Discharged Alexandria, VA, 22 Jun 1865.
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Gazhekwe
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Post Number: 1119
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Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, payments to all their relations was insisted upon, as they did not see any difference between themselves and their part white relations. It would have been wrong not to include them, even though the US considered them separately.

The people on the rolls were all supposed to be fullblood. Of course, in mainstream life, a part Indian person was still an Indian.

As far as Henry goes, he would have gotten nowhere without Jane and her parents, but their information would have gotten nowhere without him. He succeeded in getting a lot of good information out. He did romanticize and "clean up" some of the stories, though. I don't know how much his work helped Indians in their daily lives, but it has definitely been a plus for scholars through time.

His idea of Indian names for the counties would have been better if he hadn't tried to make them up to "sound" Indian. The Anishinaabe language has no L and no R, so those counties, Lenawee, Leelanau, Arenac, for instance, are just made up. This causes confusion now as people try to make sense of them without being aware of his creative touches.
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Gazhekwe
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Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is the Schoolcraft-Mission school connection. Note that the treaties called for schools for the children. Our forebears thought it very important that their children learn the same as the white children so they could trade on an equal basis. Henry was instrumental in getting the reserves set up:

In the spring of 1837, Henry Schoolcraft was eager to have all the reservations in the Lower Peninsula surveyed promptly. He wrote to John Mullett, a Detroit surveyor who was put in charge of the assignment, specifically requesting that surveys be made during the current season of the reservations at Little Traverse, Grand Traverse, on the Manistee River (for Grand River bands), and at Cheboygan. He hoped that Mullett would do these surveys even if there was not yet an appropriation to pay for the work. (44) Nothing happened, however, until two years later, after surveyors had worked their way north of the Grand River and arrived at Grand Traverse Bay. The intervening territory, with its forests and swamps, was formidable to survey. In 1837 a team tried to carry the United States mail overland from Detroit to Mackinac, but became lost northwest of Saginaw for ten days. Members of the team were rescued by a group of Indians and led to their destination, but thereafter they returned to their customary mail route following the shoreline of Lake Huron.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/do c/1G1-135022042.html
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Gnome
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Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 3:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, Gaz, the whole thing sounds like we'd have to get into Hank's head a bit concerning his motivations. Not to give the guy a pass, but just a fair shake and to try not judge him with our more enlightened sensiblities. (I need to be careful as I am certainly not an expert on Hank, Michigan Indian history, or much of anything in fact.) You may have more direct knowledge about bad things Hank may have done, but to me it seems that without Schoolcraft a huge chunk of history would be gone.

I did not know that stuff about the made-up county names, but I guess I like them better than the imported english names. Even if they're not the real thing. Were those misspellings intentional attempts to 'cleanse' Michigan of its Indian heritage or simply ham-fisted attempts to let english tongues handle those different dipthongs?

Back to that pdf, are you saying that the US government paid every indian here in Michigan in exchange for their land? gosh, didn't know that.

I also wonder who were the caretakers for all that cash, but I suspect the answer won't be very pretty.
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Gazhekwe
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Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They agreed to pay, but not to the individuals. The part Indians named in the treaties specifically may have gotten money. The tribes did not get money. They did get goods. Claims have been filed for the money, and some have been paid, but the money has been held in trust for decades until the tribes come up with a BIA approved distribution method. They do not approve giving the money to individuals, and at this time, it is very hard to parse it out as we have multiplied fruitfully since those payments were first agreed upon.
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Gazhekwe
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Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As far as Henry goes, I totally agree, without him, that information would have been lost, or still be waiting to be discovered, locked in the heads of our elders. After several generations, there would be some difference, also, so Jane and Henry's work preserved it as it was at the time.

I think Henry wanted to celebrate the Indian heritage but thought he could make prettier sounding names. They are certainly shorter than an Indian name might be, to describe a place. Take Jane's name, non-natives would have a hard time getting around anything like that.

Obahbahmwawageezhagoquay

Sound the stars make rushing through the sky woman.

I can break it down a little:

Obaa--Not sure about this one, it may be a prefix that ties it all together.
Baamwawa--sound something makes
Geezhe--Stars or lights in the sky
Go--a connector, not sure about the exact use
Kwe--woman
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Gazhekwe
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Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 4:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is still a debate going on in the communities about whether it is right to share our stories, so you can see what a good thing it is, if you believe in sharing cross culturally, to have that wonderful bank of work from Henry and Jane.
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Gnome
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Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 4:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yikes! I certainly would have a tough time with Obahbahmwawageezhagoquay, call me shallow, but that's a mouthful.

Not too sure I understand the motivations behind not sharing the stories, but then again I'm sure I don't understand the full story of subjugation. Maybe, the story behind the story about Company K is found in a cultural tradition of not sharing history with outsiders. just a theory.

I truly think we could get the State of Michigan to recognize the contributions of Company K. You know, a State resolution, plaque, mentions in the news, that sort of thing. It certainly has been effective for the Buffalo Soldiers. Personally, I'm not a Civl War Re-enactor but those Buffalo Soldiers consistantly get air-time. Heck, I think they provided the color-guard for Mrs. Parks. Their physical presence is impressive at any number of public events and it allows folks to remember Buffalo Soldiers contribution to our collective history.

I'm afraid the Veterans Administration is going to be a tough nut to crack. One, those folks are overdorked and underpaid. Two, they get a ton of requests to do all sorts of things and you have to provide more proof than it takes to make a Saint:

Eye witnesses, after action reports, paperpaperpaper. Those VA guys love paper and their favorite word is "no".

An alternative idea might be to build from the ground up. Tribal Councils, city councils, County Commissions, State Representatives and Senators ... building to Congressmen who want to run for Governor, etc.

The idea is to build a WAVE of interest in Company K.

Forgive my cynicism, but I feel the in-box in a VA bureaucrat's office is usually round in shape and located in the corner.
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Gazhekwe
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Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 5:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually, Gnome, the best way is just as you suggested. We need to start with the Ogichidaw Veterans and Warriors Society. They have already made a start (see the Newsletter article I posted up there). Work with them to create an awareness in the Indian communities. Little Traverse Bay Band, Grand Traverse Band and Little River Band were all well represented, and other communities as well. I think the proposals to the communities for recognition for their own warriors is a good start. From there, we build. The memory of those who died, and those who returned to the same difficult existence they left, and lived out their lives without recognition for their contribution, really calls for action.

American Indians have always served this country in greater numbers proportionately to others. That is one reason the US decided to grant citizenship to all Indians after WWI, in 1924.
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Plymouthres
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Post Number: 326
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Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 5:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gnome-

Those "Buffalo Soldiers" or re-enactors that you refer to are members of Michigan's own: the 102nd CT.

I respectfully dis-agree with both of you in regard to the end around the VA. The Indian tribes of this state and country can do all the campaigning they want, but a grassroots effort and Congressional action are what I believe are required. Then bills can be introduced and OFFICIAL governmental recognition can begin.

To believe that things have not changed dramatically in the minds of Americans in general for the Native Americans and their recognition by the government is just perpetuating an age old myth. I believe that opinions in this country have changed in regard to Native Americans, and given some education on the subject, non NAtive Americans would support these brave men's actions.

I would be willing to offer that we begin to collect signatures, perhaps at events at Fort Wayne next year, for example, to begin the education of the public and to enlist their help in starting a ground-up effort for recognition.

It will take all of us to achieve this recognition effort, but I believe if we stick to it we could ultimately be successful.

What do you think?
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Gazhekwe
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Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 5:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That sounds good. Also, Fort Wayne would be a great place to showcase this regiment (even if they didn't actually train or muster out there).
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Plymouthres
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Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 6:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gaz-

It is their place as well as ours. Their numbers have dwindled, but they still exist. You should come out and meet some of them. They are all very good historians as are all the folks who seek to interpret the history of the times.

Please feel free to take me up on the offer next year, and look here for postings regarding next year's events. It would certainly be my pleasure to get you "acquainted" with the members there.

I love it when a plan begins to come together!

CHALLENGE TO ALL

How many of our readers here will commit to a signature for recognition?
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Gazhekwe
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Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 9:16 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe after Christmas people will have more energy. How about we design some petitions and bring them to FSC to get started. I am going to write my Dad, also, a former director of the Indian Commission, and see if he has any ideas. He is champing for a project.
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Gazhekwe
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Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 9:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To support a proposal to legislature, we need a nice history that will grab them. What do we want the legislature to do? Recognition is fairly easy, but declaring a memorial day or spot would be great. A little tougher. When are Civil War events celebrated, is there a particular month/day that would be easily recognized? NOT November, eek.
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Gnome
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Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 9:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gaz-
First thought on the appropriate day to recognize Company K, would either be their day of Muster or day of discharge. Seems to me, both dates are in July, but I'd have to do some research. I do know that there were several enlistment rallys held in different parts of the State. One was near Saginaw, another in Petoskey and a third in Ludington/Pentwater.

My guess is that recruits were signed up then provided transportation to Dearborn/Detroit for formal training and uniforms. I remember reading that getting the men into boots was rather difficult as most of the men were use to either being barefoot or use to wearing more traditional footwear.

The real issue is to focus our thinking on what we want. As you mention, we need to be specific in our request, location of any plaque or monument, etc.

I seem to remember that there was an all-indian GAR branch in Petoskey, but haven't found any proof to that. The important part is to be able to pick a location that will continue - for the next 100 yrs - to focus attention on the deeds of Company K. That means being able to attach Company K to larger gatherings of Veterans activities.

Personally, I like to see the monument in Pentwater - to honor Antoine Scott - but that place is literally in nowheresville. The Civil War monument in Mason County is in a small cemetery in Scottsville and depicts a sculpture of a soldier standing guard. It's nice but it is off the beaten path.

There is a monumnet on the State Capital grounds honoring Ist Michigan Sharpshooters, which lists Company K, but nothing that highlights their unique contribution. I fear the Capital grounds are pretty cluttered with various monuments. There is one for Stephen Austin, Lewis Cass, the 1st Michigan Engineers and Mechanics and the "All Wars" monument which honor all confilcts in the 20th century. My father and uncle were the guys behind the All Wars Monument and I know it took them the better part of a decade to get the approvials.
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Usnsubvet77
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Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 11:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not to be a wet blanket, but it is VERY correct about how long it can take to get a monument for something done – start to finish. Especially, if the funds come from other than private sources. Even more difficult if there already is a state monument recognizing The 1st MI SS as a whole. Since one already exists, I doubt strongly they will endorse what some might view as redundancy.

For example, the State of Michigan, as I far as I know, has put a hold on state historical markers due to the cost. The 17th Michigan Company E, reenactment group has been working with the state to get the wording on their plaque approved. Of course, the state specifically told them they would not support the wording unless it included everyone that made this historical site unique. Even that is not a “unit specific” historical plaque. This has been ongoing for for a better part of 2-3 years. This long of a period, AND this group has donated well over $4,000 to the Save the Flags campaign to preserve the original Michigan battleflags. That group has political clout based on their historical preservation contributions and they are still having trouble getting the plaque finalized.

I’ll go out on a limb here and say it. Every individual regiment has its own unique and special story regarding its service. Any monuments, that I am aware of, specific to a special interest group or unique unit, other than large representation of Michigan soldiers, were purchased and erected privately. I think there would be great difficulty, especially in today’s economy and the state being broke, to fund a monument to a special interest group. Unless most, if not all, the funds would come from the group represented by the monument.

I’m not being critical of the idea and I certainly appreciate the raw passion that has been exhibited here. But without funding from private sources and some sort of ad hoc monument commission and permission to erect a monument on private, state or municipal land would be very difficult. At the very least, some committee will need to be established that can voice the thoughts of the entire NAI community regarding this since it represents a much larger population that just what is represented here.

I will sign your petition to get some recognition. It would be my pleasure to encourage others to do so as well.
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Plymouthres
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Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 2:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that perhaps you missed the point of what I was saying in regard to the recognition I was suggesting.

I was simply saying that they, in addition to their peers, should be honored the way many other groups have been honored. It is good to know that the awards that I proposed were not valid then-that leaves us with a couple of other options to dwell on.

I again respectfully dis-agree that it takes a long time to get recognition-especially if we do it correctly and focus on a smaller recognition award that will perhaps include their entirety with a special focus on just them.

Carl Levin and John Dingell come to mind as two people that I know would help out. I would be glad to contact them in regard to this issue. I have already started a dialog with someone from Dingell's office in regard to cleaning-up the approach to the Fort southward from Fort to Jefferson along the east side of Livernois-perhaps that person will be able to suggest ways to cut through the red tape.

Stay tuned........
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Gazhekwe
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Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michigan legislative tribute/recognition would be fairly easy, as it has no strings attached. They do that kind of thing for retirees. Going up the line from there, declaring a recognition day in Michigan is harder. Still, not a costly maneuver. Monuments and even markers are higher on the cost factor and of course that much more difficult.

Federal recognition is similar, the honorific recognitions can be obtained for a purpose, such as a banquet, or dedication of a privately funded monument.

Honoring Antoine Scott aka LaCroix would be a good thing, and it would be particularly on point for Little River Band, which has it's offices and casino at Manistee. Tribal recognition is a good thing, a separate step maybe, a first step maybe.

This could be a multi-pronged effort, which indeed would spread the knowledge among a lot more people.
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Plymouthres
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Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Exactly what I was eluding to, Gaz.

Let's get this rolling at the late June-July 2008 Civil War Days at Fort Wayne. Please put something together, as i will, and we can announce when done so those who are interested in helping can do so.
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Gazhekwe
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Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 3:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll work on the Indian community connection. I'll see if I can raise a bunch of contacts and maybe some more info. There are descendants still around, there have to be family stories.
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Gnome
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Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 4:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

agreed
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Usnsubvet77
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Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wish you all well in your journey.

Let me know if there is anything that I may help you with in the future regarding Co. K recognition.
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Gazhekwe
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Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 11:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I heard back from my Dad. He said,

"The Veterans Trust Fund has a history of the war and its elements and there are several pages on Co K. A long time ago we did some research on Co K and I had gathered information for a report. Don't know where it is now. The greater number of enlistees were from the area of Muskegon on north to Manistee, but there were people from all sections of the state. A good place for a monument would be in the area close to Little River and they might also be anxious to help with funding. "

I will call the Trust Fund Monday and see if they can come up with the info. The Indian Commission has been dissolved and who knows where the records have gone. If my dad can remember approximately when this report might have been done, I can do a FOIA for the info. Last record holder for the Indian Commission was the Michigan Department of Civil Rights.
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Gnome
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Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 5:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gaz-
Did your dad have something to do with the Trust Fund?
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Gazhekwe
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Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 9:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, he worked there for a number of years between stints at the Indian Commission.
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Gnome
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Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 10:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My Dad was there from 1946 until '89

(Message edited by gnome on December 15, 2007)
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Gazhekwe
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Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 11:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm sure he and my Dad knew each other. I think my Dad was there in the 80s.
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Gnome
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Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 11:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

dad died in '95, he was the Executive Director from about '71 till '89.

He ran a pretty weird group of characters, the place like a clubhouse. A lot of very interesting guys. More stories than I can re-tell in public. I grew up surrounded by Vets from every war. I remember the real old guys as being Spanish American vets ... ancient little men.
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Gazhekwe
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Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 11:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll ask my dad, I am sure he will remember your dad. He enjoyed working there. If I recall, he worked for a time under the person who replaced your dad. I can't remember who that was.
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Gnome
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Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 1:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The guy that replaced him was a Blanchard appointee, had never served in the active military and is not my favorite guy.

Dad ran the place a bit like a fiefdom I'm afraid and was loath to actually writing things down. Most everything was verbal as he was a bit paranoid of the folks in the Capital. Both Republicans and Democrats eye that Trust Fund dough like its a treasure just waiting to be used for building roads or balancing the budget or polishing brass knobs back in their home districts. Blanchard raided the Trust Fund once to balance the budget, and damn near ruined the entire program.

The tale of the Trust Fund is interesting, and could be a blueprint for other state programs, but the will to do so is too thin.
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Gazhekwe
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Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 1:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My dad does remember him, says he (my dad) was second in line but another man was your dad's assistant. He agrees it was like a club. He really enjoyed it. When I was at the Indian Commission in the 90s, the TF was in the same office for a short time, then they moved to a different building.
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Gnome
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Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 8:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My Dad's go-to guy was a long time friend of his by the name of Frank Young. Frank Young and my dad were pal going back to the early 1950's. Frank was the greatest guy in the world.

The guy that got the position - can't remember his name - was a putz, a schmuck, a wanker, a fool; but he as a friend of Jim Blanchard.

Oh well.
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Gazhekwe
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Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 8:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think my Dad would have liked that job, but, wrong party.
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Gnome
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Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 8:16 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gazhekwe- How can I contact you directly so as to not bore folks with stories about the Trust Fund?
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Gazhekwe
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Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 10:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't want to post my contact info here. Is there a way to get it through the moderator? Or we could start a new thread on Connections.
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Gazhekwe
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Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Back on the topic of Schoolcraft, today someone sent me info on a book of Jane's writings that came out last year. It is available at Amazon.

The Sound the Stars Make Rushing Through the Sky: The Writings of Jane Johnston Schoolcraft (Hardcover)
by Jane Johnston Schoolcraft (Author), Robert Dale Parker (Editor)
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Goat
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Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 1:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks to everyone for such interesting info.

I wouldn't mind helping out at Ft. Wayne either.
Gazhekwe already has my Email so please keep me in the loop even if I don't respond back a in a few days( always extremely busy)I will have read and it will eventually respond.
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Plymouthres
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Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 1:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Goat-

No problem, and I will make sure that I let everyone here know what the schedule will be at Fort Wayne for 2008 as soon as we get it.

Plymouthres
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Bigb23
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Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 8:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gazhekwe -


Thanks again for the links, they will be a big help.
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Kathleen
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Posted on Monday, February 11, 2008 - 7:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Macomb Cultural Center's upcoming Michigan's Fight for Freedom: The Civil War Era program that opens February 27 and runs through May 4 includes a program on the Sharpshooters of Company K.

Northern Michigan Soldiers, Thursday, April 3, 1pm. John Mitchell discusses the contribution of Michigan's soldiers to the Civil War effort, focusing on Company K of the First Michigan Sharpshooters, the only all Native American company to serve in the war from Michigan.

For details on registering for this free event, plus a full schedule on the whole program, check out: http://www.macombculturalcente r.com/index.htm
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Kathleen
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Posted on Monday, February 11, 2008 - 8:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is a second lecture on the First Michigan Sharpshooters....

First Michigan Sharpshooters: These Men have seen Hard Service, Wednesday, April 16, 11am and 1pm. Author of the regimental history, Ray Herek tells the story of the only all Native American company from Michigan to serve in the Civil War, from serving as prison guards at Camp Douglas, Chicago, to the fiery battles of the Wilderness, Spotsylvania and the siege of Petersburg.