  Billk Member Username: Billk Post Number: 117 Registered: 09-2005 |
Why do some of them have the pilot house structure on the front of the ship, and some are at the rear ? | ||
Tarkus Member Username: Tarkus Post Number: 379 Registered: 04-2006 |
Pilot House in front or the bow is a laker. Pilot House in rear or aft is a ocean freighter. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2797 Registered: 06-2004 |
"Pilot House in front or the bow is a laker. Pilot House in rear or aft is a ocean freighter." unless it's a 1,000 footer laker - everything's in the rear superstructure on those, now the best way to tell laker vs salty is to look at the shape of the bow - lakers are blunt nosed, salties are sharply v-shaped | ||
Bob_cosgrove Member Username: Bob_cosgrove Post Number: 572 Registered: 03-2005 |
Until the late 1960's almost, but not all Lake freighters had their pilot houses on the bow and enines and galleys in the stern. Crew quarters were primarily in the stern, although the captain and some of the officers had cabins in the bow. Hence the crews were separated by the length of the vessel, which could up to 600 or 700 feet or more. Today, all the newer Great Lakes freighters have their pilot houses on on the stern atop the engines and crew quarters. In part the old arrangement was due to better visibility, but with more modern navigation and communications it made more sense to locate them all together. A factor was the rear engine arrangment resulted in smaller crews, since they weren't spread apart. Bob Cosgrove | ||
Broken_main Member Username: Broken_main Post Number: 1327 Registered: 06-2005 |
Great Lesson today, I will pass it on to my boys. We walk to the river all the time and these are definitely some good things to tell them. | ||
Awfavre Member Username: Awfavre Post Number: 150 Registered: 08-2005 |
To add to what Bob already said: Most lake freighters had the fore & aft configuration (engines, galley & cabins aft; pilot house & more cabins in front) up until the last one, the Algosoo, was launched in 1974. After that, all lake freighters were built in the aft-only configuration. Traditionally, it was thought the fore & aft configuration was best for navigation on the Great Lakes. However, I understand most mariners now prefer the aft-only configuration for navigation & handling purposes. Lilpup, usually the best way to tell a salty (or ocean-going vessel) is by looking for the unloading cranes on the deck. Salties tend to have several unloading cranes on their deck, whereas lakers usually have only an unloading boom, or no boom at all. After awhile, because there are only so many lakers left sailing, you come to learn all of them. Anything else is either a tug or a salty.  Examples: Below is a shot I took in the Soo of the salty Milo. http://pics.boatnerd.com/view_ photo.php?set_albumName=album5 5&id=Milo_Soo_2004 Below is a shot of the modern laker St. Clair, in the aft-only configuration. http://pics.boatnerd.com/view_ photo.php?set_albumName=album5 5&id=St_Clair_Detroit Below is a shot of the traditional fore & aft configuration laker S/S Arthur M. Anderson. http://pics.boatnerd.com/view_ photo.php?set_albumName=album5 5&id=Arthur_M_Anderson_Detroit Caveat: Salties do not always have unloading cranes. Below is a shot of the thousand footer Columbia Star being passed by the salty Vlieborg, which has no unloading cranes. http://pics.boatnerd.com/view_ photo.php?set_albumName=album5 5&id=Columbia_Star_Vlieborg_De troit_2 (I apologize for the poor picture quality in most of these photos. This was when I was first learning to take these shots on a 35 mm film point-&-shoot, & the images were scanned for posting purposes.) Finally, if you want to learn more about the freighters passing us by, go to www.boatnerd.com. There is a page on there where you can ask questions, & usually get answers. http://search.boatnerd.com/ Many current & former sailors, vessel captains, historians, and industry officials read the site & often answer questions themselves. (Message edited by awfavre on September 20, 2007) | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 151 Registered: 07-2007 |
"Below is a shot of the traditional fore & aft configuration laker S/S Arthur M. Anderson." The Anderson will always be known for being the last ship to see the Edmund Fitzgerald before it sank in November 1975 (the Anderson was following the Fitz across Lake Superior and her captain was the first to report her missing). At the time, the Anderson didn't have the unloading boom that you see in the picture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S S_Edmund_Fitzgerald http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A rthur_M._Anderson | ||
Michigan Member Username: Michigan Post Number: 1198 Registered: 04-2007 |
Do modern lakers have the bulbous bow found on salties? | ||
Broken_main Member Username: Broken_main Post Number: 1331 Registered: 06-2005 |
Thanks Novine and Awfavre.. I am enjoying this really. My wife is from the Soo and we spend a lot of our time near the Locks when we are up there. You all are great for posting this info | ||
Awfavre Member Username: Awfavre Post Number: 151 Registered: 08-2005 |
Michigan, to answer your question, as a general rule, most modern lakers do not have the bulbous bow. Modern lakers tend to maximize cargo capacity, hence the boxy look. Although, some Canadian vessels were built with a pointed bow with a slight protrusion for ice-breaking purposes. Below is the salty Federal Pride, showing the bulbous bow sticking out of the water. http://www.boatnerd.com/news/n ewsthumbs/images-07-3/FEDERALP RIDEb15081107mn.jpg Below is the Algoma Central Marine vessel Algowest (now the Peter R. Cresswell) showing the pointed bow. http://www.boatnerd.com/news/n ewpictures02/cresswellb-3-16-0 2-ns.jpg Below is the boxy bow of the Paul R. Tregurtha, the largest vessel on the Great Lakes. http://www.boatnerd.com/news/n ewpictures01/paulrbow-lay-up01 -sh.jpg (Note: I didn’t take of these shots.) | ||
Gazhekwe Member Username: Gazhekwe Post Number: 622 Registered: 08-2007 |
Broken_main, I grew up in the Soo. It used to be THE signal of spring to hear the first freighter tooting to go through the locks. They don't use the whistles much any more, and I miss them. | ||
Flybydon Member Username: Flybydon Post Number: 171 Registered: 01-2005 |
A few more visuals http://www.aerialpics.com/I/sh ips.html | ||
Awfavre Member Username: Awfavre Post Number: 152 Registered: 08-2005 |
Gazhekwe, all Boatnerds as we call ourselves, are horn whores. We live for those whistles! You’ll almost always see a few Boatnerds at Mission Point in the Soo waving at the boats in an attempt to get a toot. In this area, watch on the Dossin cam schedule for when the S/S Edward L. Ryerson will go by Belle Isle. Usually, if it’s during business hours, or even a bit after, her captain will blow a master’s salute when she’s at Downtown abeam of the Casino Windsor. The Ryerson is the last American flatback/straight-decker (she has no unloading boom), & her whistles are steam-driven, with two chimes. It’s enough to shake the paint off the walls when she goes by! Check the link below for a video clip of two salutes she gave in the Soo at this year’s Engineers’ Day. http://www.boatnerd.com/media/ ryerson.htm | ||
Michigan Member Username: Michigan Post Number: 1200 Registered: 04-2007 |
thanks you guys, I love these threads and boatnerd is a great site. | ||
Amy_p Member Username: Amy_p Post Number: 855 Registered: 10-2003 |
Love this thread! And freighters! My dad had the hardware store on Harsen's Island when I was little, and we'd go to work with him all day and be bored, so he paid us a nickle for every freighter we wrote down the name of. I plan to take a freighter cruise in two years, but I understand that the Great Lakes ones can't take passengers anymore. Any of you boatnerds know otherwise? ;) | ||
Margaret Member Username: Margaret Post Number: 164 Registered: 06-2007 |
wonderful thread, thanks, all! I remember, Awfavre, as a young girl, our bedroom windows rattling from the freighter horns on the Detroit River. some of them were so low it was amazing, but that window glass sure caught their frequencies! here's a crazy question: do any of those lakers ever take passengers? wouldn't that be a fun trip, to ride along on a laker? | ||
Gazhekwe Member Username: Gazhekwe Post Number: 623 Registered: 08-2007 |
I couldn't get the Ryerson clip to play, but the Tregurtha's last Master's Salute brought tears to my eyes. I miss those big boats so much! Thank you! | ||
Awfavre Member Username: Awfavre Post Number: 153 Registered: 08-2005 |
Amy-p & Margaret, unfortunately, you are correct the domestic Great Lakes vessels no longer take paying passengers. Your only means of getting aboard a domestic vessel is knowing someone high-up at a shipping company, winning a trip on a boat, or marrying a sailor. Boatnerd had a raffle trip this past year. My friend Keith won it, & he was crazy enough to invite me aboard. Yes, it is fun. Some pix from the trip are below. http://www.boatnerd.com/news/n ewsthumbs/newsthumbs_2007Raffl eWinners.htm Boatnerd will probably have another raffle trip next year. In the meantime, check the link below for a couple International Shipmasters Association raffles. http://www.freightertrip.com/ Occasionally, you may see trips being auctioned on eBay. Also, Google “freighter trip,” & you’ll find an odd one here & there – either via a raffle, or by auction. Lastly, there are some International companies that sell trips on the salties as they go through the Great Lakes. http://freighterworld.com/plac es/greateur.html http://freighters.ca/tcp_canma rsched1.htm Gazhekwe, keep trying for the Ryerson clip. I was on the other side of the Mac lock (seen in the video), & it was so loud & magnificent, it brought tears to my eyes – I was laughing & crying all at the same time! Alright, gotta end this for the night, or I’ll never get outta here (I could talk about this stuff for hours). Have a great night everyone! | ||
Amy_p Member Username: Amy_p Post Number: 856 Registered: 10-2003 |
Thanks for the all resources, Awfavre. (Now, if you know any for single sailors... ;)) | ||
Gazhekwe Member Username: Gazhekwe Post Number: 624 Registered: 08-2007 |
The page has no link on it for a video, so I can't tell if it is something my computer is not seeing, or is it just not there for some reason. I will keep looking, though. | ||
Ookpik Member Username: Ookpik Post Number: 331 Registered: 01-2007 |
Great thread! I agree, the Boatnerd site is excellent. Among the large photo collection I have, many are of freighters, tugs and other ships that once sailed the Great Lakes. I can't tell the difference between the S/S Minnow and the S/S Insert Freighter Name Here. Not wanting to deluge this site with "Old Photo - What Ship Is This?" threads, I started my own site located here: http://radiotvpix.blogspot.com / Stop by and say "Hi!" Ookpik | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 2702 Registered: 11-2005 |
quote: Been a while since your last mystery photo post. Will they be coming back? | ||
Ookpik Member Username: Ookpik Post Number: 332 Registered: 01-2007 |
Most of the photos that I felt were of Detroit have been posted. However, I have not looked closely at every single photo. Should something turn up that I feel is Detroit, I will definitely post it! Ookpik | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2798 Registered: 06-2004 |
Traditional laker bows 'push' water, and take big waves over the deck http://www.newzjunky.com/record/0628ship3.jpg http://www.boatnerd.com/news/newpictures/saginawarrive-duluthc-5-11-00-am.jpg Traditional salty bows are designed to 'cut through' water and handle waves better http://www.outthereimages.com/images/galveston_cargo_ship.jpg http://cache.gridskipper.com/images/2006/04/Queen%20Mary%20Bow.jpg http://www.dnv.com.mx/Binaries/ships_bow181pxl_tcm32-8993.jpg  | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 153 Registered: 07-2007 |
What's the oldest freighter still in service? | ||
Raptor56 Member Username: Raptor56 Post Number: 111 Registered: 05-2007 |
I heard a freighter blow it's horn while I was walking around downtown last fall. it echoed up Randolph. pretty cool!! | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 154 Registered: 07-2007 |
One more good resource page that the boatnerds have been busy on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L ake_freighter | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2801 Registered: 06-2004 |
quote: Of the lakers that would be the newly re-christened St. Mary's Challenger, launched in 1906. Cool picture of the once named Southdown Challenger upbound from the Ambassador Bridge. (Message edited by lilpup on September 21, 2007) | ||
Downtownguy Member Username: Downtownguy Post Number: 59 Registered: 07-2004 |
Awfavre, I was sitting outside at Andiamo's in the Ren Cen a couple of weeks ago when the Ryerson did pass by and gave the master's salute. It was quite impressive. I hear the traditional salute (one long, two short) from freighters all the time. What's the significance of the master's salute? | ||
Norwalk Member Username: Norwalk Post Number: 123 Registered: 11-2006 |
AmyP I'm single and own a canoe! |
