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French777
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Username: French777

Post Number: 224
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2007 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

are there any Urban Planners on the Forum??

Im interested in becoming one

any hints or suggestions

and also is the job FUN or same old,same old
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 1381
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2007 - 9:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Its a broad field. Skills used include:
- listening and talking with difficult people,
- geography,
- economics,
- computer skills (database, cartography),
- writing, and
- various stuff.

There are no typical planning jobs. You can specialize in economic development, environmental planning, transportation planning, zoning, and public adminstration.

All are very different in approaches.

I don't know if I would consider it fun everyday, but it is a very satisfying career choice.

And you should not plan on becoming rich off of it. You will do okay, but for the longest time my siblings wondered why I was wasting my time doing what I was doing for such little pay. Of course over time, my job has been a lot more stable, while their jobs no longer are.
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French777
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Username: French777

Post Number: 225
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 7:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks that really helped!!
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Rfban
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Username: Rfban

Post Number: 180
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 7:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitplanner, what firm do you work for? I understand if you would like to keep that anonymous so, let me revise my question--is your work in the private or public sector?
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 1382
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 8:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I work for the non-profit sector. Most of my work falls in the realm of public sector, but I deal with both sectors on a daily basis.
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Miketoronto
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Username: Miketoronto

Post Number: 641
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 9:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What kind of pay are we looking at?
I am starting uni in one more week for Urban Planning.

I hope to make atleast a decent wage :-)
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 1383
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 10:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I make somewhere between McDonalds and stock trader wages.

You should check out some of the employment websites for a better idea on range. The American Planning Association has lots of jobs listed as does the Michigan Society of Planners.
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Miketoronto
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Username: Miketoronto

Post Number: 642
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 11:16 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know the transit planners in the company I work for here in Toronto make from between $65,000-$90,000.

I am guessing that is a pretty good wage to start off and even in mid career.

Most of all I want to make change in our cities.

I want to make at least a decent wage.

(Message edited by miketoronto on August 27, 2007)
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Jfried
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Username: Jfried

Post Number: 1044
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 11:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll second detroitplanners notion that you'll encounter great variety in the planning field. Every classmate I graduated with (about 8 yrs ago) is doing something completely different.

In school, you'll be exposed to basics of the profession - this includes everything from landuse/zoning, public participation, environmental concerns, economic development, etc, etc. While you will more than likely learn the basics, that will pale in comparison to the experience you get on the job.

My best advice is to become as involved as possible in planning community as early as possible. Start attending all the professional events you can - Michigan Society of Planning, Michigan Economic Developers Association, CEDAM, SEMCOG University, etc, etc. You will have the chance to learn a lot about current trends, and more importantly you'll start to make contacts in the field.

Second, I encourage students to become exposed to as many areas of the field as possible. Regardless if it's a paid internship, volunteering, or working with your local non-profit, just get involved. You will be amazed by the different opportunites that may arise as you approach graduation.

I still am amazed by the variety of projects I have worked on through the years, and really never expected to be doing the type of work I'm doing now.

My first position involved mostly long term projects, and honestly, the lack of seeing immediate progress in community was very frustrating. My next position involved working housing rehab, and getting to see immediate improvement in the community, and to have the satisfaction of completely a project every few weeks was much more rewarding to me.

I have been involved in completely different projects over the years. Everything from land use & zoning, running a downtown development authority, master plananing, transportation planning, brownfield redevelopment, etc. I would have to say what has always kept me interested is that variety.

Now, I'm much more focused on the economic development side. I find that I'm doing something different everyday, and more importantly to me, it seems that I'm learning something new everyday, too. There is an unbelieveable amount of potential in this area, and working in economic development you really get to be part of that.

It seems that the emphasis on economic development in the planning profession is really starting to grow. With this in mind, I think while you're in school it would be very beneficial to take as many business classes as possible.

Ok, that enough rambling from me.
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Cman710
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Username: Cman710

Post Number: 359
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for your comments, Jfried, and also Detroitplanner. I am considering eventually studying urban planning, and your comments have been very helpful.
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Jfried
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Username: Jfried

Post Number: 1045
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 11:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's a lot of loonies Mike. Depending on your emphasis you can easily make that mid-career, but you should expect more in the area of 40-50k starting off. You mention transit planners and I'm guessing they probably have a civil engineering background, if not professional engineer credentials.
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Miketoronto
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Username: Miketoronto

Post Number: 643
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 12:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually no. From what I found out so far, transit planners just need an urban planning degree.

Jfried that sounds really good being able to do different things. I really hope to work on different projects.

So overall you guys like your jobs? Do you see a lot of change. Like really being able to help people?
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 1545
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 12:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whatever you do, don't get into Civil Engineering. It is basically the lowest paying profession for which you need a professional degree!
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Amy_p
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Username: Amy_p

Post Number: 827
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 12:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Charlottepaul, let me introduce you to social work... ;)
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 1547
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 12:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL, I'm sorry for you. Didn't think about that. Guess I meant, "Civil Engineering is basically the lowest paying profession for which you need a GRADUATE degree!"
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Steelworker
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Username: Steelworker

Post Number: 967
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 2:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

which would you think is a better degree to get if you plan on doing urban planning. economics, geography, business???
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 1384
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Steel

It would all depend upon what you want to specialize in. Other typical fields I've known urban planners to have graduate or undergraduate degrees in include: law, landscape architecture, architecture, political science, and civil engineering.
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Fareastsider
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Username: Fareastsider

Post Number: 560
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 3:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am going to get a degree in Geography w/ a co major in urban studies. I thought I was done but a week before my last class I was mailed a letter telling me about a class requirement I had missed. Both the Department and the counselor told me I had met all my requirements, but were wrong. I tried to get a waiver for it but was turned down. Anyways my point is how would a perspective employer look at me missing that one class which I will be done with in December. I have only had one interview in Genesee Co. and did not get the job and I told them of my situation. Also anyone know of any openings in SE MI????
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Rfban
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Username: Rfban

Post Number: 181
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fareastsider,

I would recommend getting a Master's degree, or at least getting into a program. It's very awkward game of balancing network relationships with past experience. Most likely you are going to have to work for free or very little until you are established enough and have the right connections and past experience.
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Jfried
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Username: Jfried

Post Number: 1049
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 3:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Steelworker - any of those majors would be good choices. In addition, I work with people who have backgrounds in social work, history, public administration, political science. If you plan on going to grad school, get an undergrad degree in whatever field you're most interested in.

Fareastsider - it can't hurt to continue your job search, but it will more than likely be difficult to find a full time gig before you complete your degree.

Here are a few job links.

http://www.cedam.info/Career_C orner.htm
http://www.pzcenter.com/jobs.c fm
http://www.planningmi.org/reso urces4055682.asp
http://www.govtjobs.com
http://www.mml.org
http://www.planning.org/Jobson line/ads.htm
http://www.mnaonline.org/class ified.asp
http://www.idealist.org/if/ide alist/en/AdvancedSearch/Job/de fault
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French777
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Username: French777

Post Number: 226
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

so is the Job market ok to become a Urban Planner or is it kinda like you need to be different or better than everyone else to get a job.
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Jfried
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Username: Jfried

Post Number: 1052
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 5:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are lots of jobs out there, but just like most other fields right now the most jobs are in growing areas like Nevada, California, New Mexico, Arizona. In my experience the jobs are more competitive in the major cities, and usually offer less $.

The best way to make yourself stand out is to have practical experience through internships and volunteer work.

(Message edited by jfried on August 27, 2007)
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 1385
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 5:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Right now the job market is slow in Michigan compared to elsewhere. Government is trying to get things done on a shoestring because so many places are strapped for cash.

However, the market was not always like that. Revenues should begin to rise soon. Planners are typically the ones that administer and coordinate federal money that comes to Cities as well. Eventually the politicians will realize that pennywise is pound foolish and start spending more in code enforcement, looking for money to fix roads, bridges, and sewers; and improving the quality of life.

I'd agree with Jf some cities attract more planners than others. It is very much driven by the local market. Around here you can make a decent wage, but its hard to get a job. In Vegas the wages are huge, but so is the turn-over. Places like Portland and Denver pay comparably like crap, but those are magnets for planners.
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Miketoronto
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Username: Miketoronto

Post Number: 644
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 5:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lets hope the job market improves. Because when I graduate, I want to become planner at DDOT for a year or two.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 1386
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 8:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I am going to get a degree in Geography w/ a co major in urban studies."

Thats what I did. I was Valedictorian of CULMA by default (no one else graduated, in fact I was to meet my family by the CULMA sign, but there was none!

Mike you better start lining up how you are going to accomplish that. If you are a Canadian Citizen there will be quite a few hoops to jump through.
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Miketoronto
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Username: Miketoronto

Post Number: 646
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 8:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am an American citizen also.
But I am guessing jobs with DDOT are not opening up everyday.
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Classico
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Username: Classico

Post Number: 52
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Its very slow in this state. You can see this clearly when job searching on various sites..Clearinghouse/APA....et c. I think I have seen only about 2 Michigan job postings in the last 3 months, and one was the Domino Farms corp looking for a GIS mapper. It's bad when you see Wyoming and Alabama with more combined job postings for the month than any from this state in the year.

The thing you will learn though that most jobs are not advertised, and if they are, usually are just for show. By law you need to post it. I've discovered this with countless jobs. When you see a job only posted for a week its pretty obvious they already have someone in mind.

Some want you to be grossly overqualified and underpaid I've noticed. It seems like for simple GIS skills posted internships your against competition form mid level and up Grad students. Which is ridiculous for a basic get your foot in the door job. You don't even need a undergrad for some of these jobs to carry out the duties.

I'm a math competency test away from receiving my Urbain Studies/Geography Co-major as well. Basically I've found out rather quickly there are only a handful of ways to get indoctrinated into this field.

1.Internship-paid or unpaid,volunteer work
2.GIS-If you can create shapefiles, know the basics of geoprocessing, know how to add data layers/create layout views, you can do any basic/entry level job with GIS. Just got to get the chance to demonstrate it.
3. Network Network Network.

In fact I'm planning to go up to Traverse for the big MAP Workshop. This one has a ton that I'm interested in, let alone the fact that its places like this were contacts are formed :-)

Is anyone planning on making the trip up?
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Dannaroo
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Username: Dannaroo

Post Number: 141
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 8:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am currently working on my Master's degree in Urban Planning at Wayne State University (am about halfway through) and work in the public sector in an economic development capacity. Before this I was working in the private sector for a major Detroit area non-profit organization. At work, I am pretty low on the totem poll (I've only been there a few months so far and have already been asked if I would be interested in a substantial possible promotion, so keep your fingers crossed!) but the starting pay was decent (especially for the Detroit area and the market right now).

I have a B.S. in Public Administration and B.A.s in Public Policy and Economics and was originally going to law school and after one year, decided that it was just not for me and after gaining some information about Wayne State's Urban Planning program, I made the switch.

As far as the job outlook, I've noticed a lot more job postings in the metro Detroit area lately, you just have to know where to look and be willing to look at organizations you might not normally think of.

Also, if you are planning on studying here in Michigan, check out the programs closely at the different universities before you decide on one. I picked WSU without really looking around much but wish I would have considered MSU or EMU because both have programs with a much deeper focus on geography and technology than Wayne does (MSU also has more of a focus on the environment/landscape design, UoM seems to focus on design/architecture theory, and Wayne is policy heavy focus).

You may want to check out the forums on Cyburbia.org
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Dannaroo
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Username: Dannaroo

Post Number: 142
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Classico:

I am working on getting my office to send me up there for the MAP conference as well.
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 511
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 9:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It was the urban planners at DDOT that directly caused the Livonia SMART bus reductions along with the illegal DARTA. They planned this by running late buses on Plymouth Road with no time tables and almost always empty usually just behind a full SMART bus.

It's easy to be an urban planner at DDOT, just put on a suit and stand around at MDOT and SEMCOG meetings. No need to know anything because you sit in an air conditioned office and play video games. When the phone rings, you never answer it and you eat $40. paid meals.

And you drive a big red Lincoln Navigator

The main requirement is that you must be a friend or relative of the mayor or some other Detroit official.
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Classico
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Username: Classico

Post Number: 53
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 9:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dannaroo,

Wouldn't be surprised if we know each other, or at the very least a common bond with various people within the Urban Planning/Geography department at WSU. Some of my very good friends in fact just showed a proposal in Lincoln Park with Boyle :-)

There's another one in this thread, but I won't out him. lol


Trainman,

I worked for MDOT 2 years ago as my internship(too bad the internship did very little for me other than fulfill a 8 credit hour graduation requirement). The Detroit offices are houses on the second floor on Howard Street in the Greyhound bus Terminal.

I would sometimes have to make copies of papers for certain big whigs coming over form Lansing. Some of what you said isn't that far off, but there was some really good people trying to make things happen with some bad nuts mixed in.

Wish I hadn't lost some contact information from a few who told me to give them a call when I got my degree....:-(
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Joebrazier
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Username: Joebrazier

Post Number: 7
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 10:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Move to Florida--plenty of planning jobs down here.
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 1437
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^Only if you can stand the heat and humidity, plus the occasional hurricane...

(Not that I truly hate Florida)
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Udmphikapbob
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Username: Udmphikapbob

Post Number: 429
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 8:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

so it's pretty much impossible to get into planning unless you have the planning degree then? i have my masters of architecture from UDM, with several planning courses. i've learned the basics of ArcGIS on my own at home, and i just want to get in the door somewhere! i also got a business certificate with my undergraduate degree, so i'm hoping to go in the economic development direction.

is it a foregone conclusion that i need to go back to school first? i was hoping to get an entry-level planning/development job first, then go back part time to get the planning degree.
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Dannaroo
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Username: Dannaroo

Post Number: 143
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 8:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think an actual planning degree is necessary, especially in a situation like yours UDM Bob. But for somebody like you, who has more of a background in design, I would think that you might be more likely to get your feet in the water by starting in an entry level at a larger private acrhitecture/design, engineering, or survey frim (such as Wade-Trim). These consulting firms offer a wide range of services to their municipal clients and will likely have a lot more use for somebody with your skills right off the bat while a smaller planning consulting firm (like LSL Planning) or local government might look for somebody with a bit more of a policy background.
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Steelworker
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Username: Steelworker

Post Number: 968
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 11:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I mainly looking at a bachelors in anything relevant to planning for the sole purpose of getting a new job and continuing my study towards urban planning masters. Im horrible at math which is why I keep debating different degrees at WSU. When I have taken Economics classes I enjoyed them but I fear their are no jobs in that. I love maps and geography all my life but I beleive they dont have a good geography program at WSU. Ive taken ton of business classes and slowly im hating it, but i think i may be able to get a job in it. Ive even debated moving to arizona to get a bachelors in urban planning, but alas my GF refuses to move with me. Any more opinions or advise would be appreciated. Thanks
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Rfban
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Username: Rfban

Post Number: 182
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 12:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I will be attending the conference as well Classico. See you then!
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 1388
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd love to attend the conference but that is a busy time for me at work. I am most interested in AICP educational credit changes. I have a lot of questions, and am wondering what will now be an acceptable source of those credits.

I'm concerned that the $300 + and the extra training fees (my place of employment will only pay for things directly related to your job, with a six month advance request...) may force me out of the AICP and APA all together. I'd like to see MAP put together simple one day trainings on various topics and price them accordingly.
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Jfried
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Username: Jfried

Post Number: 1056
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 12:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The AICP exam is now $450! Pretty ridiculous considering what membership offers.

Steelworker - w/ a degree in economics there is a good chance that you could land an entry level planning job. I know Wayne has a Grad Certificate in Economic Development through their econ. department - can you take any of those classes as an undergrad?

Have you thought of the undergrad planning program at MSU? A lot of undergrads from this program compete with master degree graduates for jobs across the state.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 1549
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 12:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"so it's pretty much impossible to get into planning unless you have the planning degree then? i have my masters of architecture from UDM, with several planning courses. i've learned the basics of ArcGIS on my own at home, and i just want to get in the door somewhere! i also got a business certificate with my undergraduate degree, so i'm hoping to go in the economic development direction.

is it a foregone conclusion that i need to go back to school first? i was hoping to get an entry-level planning/development job first, then go back part time to get the planning degree."

Hate to say it, but you might be able to go about what you want to do by getting in with some developers. That might not require any more schooling, and you probably already have/know most of what they want.