  Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 11608 Registered: 10-2003 |
Could somebody please explain to me the history behind the area in which Redford Theatre is located, which is Lahser and Grand River. I was under the assumption that the theatre is located in Detroit, which after verifying their address on my brochure, appears to be correct. However, when I inquired today amongst some long time Detroiters and Metro Detroiters, the stories all varied. I would like to know whether or not the area was once a suburb of it's own, if it was annexed by Detroit at some point, or if it was simply a neighborhood of Detroit known as Redford. I also believe that there is still a Redford and/or a Redford Twp which is/are stand alone suburb(s), correct? If somebody could clarify what exactly all these Redfords are referring to it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, -Supersport | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3024 Registered: 02-2005 |
It's solidly in Detroit. It sounds like it may have been annexed, we'll see what the historians say. I worked in that immediate area during UM's Detroit Project day last spring. There is a nice strip of retail and a nice art gallery/jazz lounge next door to the Theatre. That area right along Grand River seems to be quite a bit older than the rest of Brightmoor/NW Detroit. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1008 Registered: 04-2006 |
That area is known as Old Redford which was a part of Redford Twp, I believe. | ||
47to86 Member Username: 47to86 Post Number: 3 Registered: 06-2007 |
I can do that in some detail, but not off the top of my head. I used to have tons of "Old Redford" history stuff, but am not sure if its around anymore. I'll have to look. I do have a set of Redford High School newspapers (Outpost) that contained a series of articles on the area. Some general points: About 25 square miles of the original Redford Township was annexed to Detroit in 1926. That included the "Old Redford" area (the area around mcnichols and grand river including the Redford theatre). The community known as Redford Township today is what remains of the original. The 36 sq. mile township was bounded by present day eight mile rd., Greenfield, Joy and inkster when first surveyed in the 1830's. The Lahser/Telegraph intersection was the center of a community called Sand Hill (one of many in the area). Sand Hill incorporated into the Village of Redford in 1907. That community was absorbed into Detroit in 1926. The name "redford" refers to the fact that a "ford" over the rouge (red) river existed in the area. If you want, I can provide some more detail -- just have to get a little time to refresh my memory. | ||
Waxx Member Username: Waxx Post Number: 213 Registered: 09-2006 |
I posted a thread about this some time ago, and I tried to relocate it in the archives but I couldn't find it, I was gonna copy and paste it here. but from what I've observed from the history books, was that there was a war between the French and the British over the fords (shallow areas) of the Rouge river. I forgot who did this, but (I believe) the French were fur poachers at the time of the war. And Redford was originally named (Rouge)ford but before that it was named either Pixin, or Peking Township named after a Chinese town. And as was mentioned by a few others, Certain areas in Detroit you can tell at one point in time was Redford Twp.. Case in point: St. Mary's of Redford Catholic Church The Redford Theater Redford HS (est. over ten years after Detroit had taken over that area I recently found out) Originally aside Redford's current location, it stretched from 8 Mile to Schoolcraft from 5 Points to Greenfield and if you travel around the Evergreen-7 Mile area to Lahser and even to Telegraph, you can tell that some of the homes are very identical to the ones in Redford, and you can tell that at one point in time those 15-plus square miles of land used to Redford, I wouldn't be surprised if Redford even reclaims part of that land let alone the rest of it seeing that the area is drying up. If I'm not mistaken, that "Old Redford" area, was the original Downtown Redford. Looks like it anyway. Hope this helped out. | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 830 Registered: 07-2005 |
Here you go Sporto, a copy of a map of Redford, Livonia, Nankin, Dearborn from the David Rumsey Collection. It is from 1873 before Detroit annexed Redford, Greenfield, etc:  | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 831 Registered: 07-2005 |
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Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 2199 Registered: 10-2003 |
Grand River and Lahser is old downtown Redford. Whether a downtown of an incorporated city/village, I don't know, but it was definitely the center of the Twp. and existed long before the surrounding area. It was annexed into Detroit as stated above. Now Redford Twp. calls Fenkell and Beech Daly their "downtown" (it's quite a pathetic dwtn). Sand Hill is to the north of Grand River between Telegraph and Lahser (since Telegraph and Lahser are N/S streets they don't intersect as stated above). For some great info and history on Redford, check out this thread from the HOF. About half way down we get into the Redford stuff. When you see Mikem's maps that's where we start talking about Redford: https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/6790/24296.html?11697395 08 | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 3123 Registered: 10-2003 |
Redford was the name of a very large area that was annexed by Detroit back in the dim prehistory of most Detroiters. Once annexed this area became lots of different Detroit neighborhoods (Redford, Brightmoor, North Rosedale Park, South Rosedale, the Grandmonts, Warrendale, Crary St. Mary, Minock Park etc.) There was a portion of this area that was not annexed by Detroit that was mostly developed postwar that is called in some places Redford Township and others, I think, became [arts pf Dearborn Heights, Livonia might have a nibble of this original Redford too, I'm not sure about that, that is getting a bit too far west from my comfort zone ... In addition to a church and a couple of schools, some of the old timers on the forum might remember a few businesses etc. along GR far east of Redford or Redford Twp. that had "Redford" in their name. SS, most savvy westsiders know the difference between Redford and Redford Twp. The term "Old Redford" was, AIR a 70's era marketing gimmick to brand the GR/Lahser retail center, the residential neighborhoods nearby went by other names, (Sand Hill, Redford and Riverside are some of them). That retail center predated the annexation. By the time it was fully developed (say the 1960s) and built up the neighborhoods around "Old Redford" were a really weird demographic mix: working class appalachain whites not too far removed from their Brightmoor kin lived in the immediate east and a bit south, solidly middle class white collar folk in postwar housing to the west that was virtually identical to stuff in the nicer parts of Southfield or even the rivery western edge of Birmingham, lower middle class and blue collar scots irish oooold stock Detroiters to the immediate north and south displaced from inner city neighborhoods, there was even a small old black neighborhood that predated the white flight era. Not a lot of eastern european ethnics around what became "Old Redford" back in the olden tymes. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4616 Registered: 08-2004 |
I wonder why they didn't annex the entire Township? Was the rest of it empty land, and therefore not considered worth annexing back in 1926? | ||
Masterblaster Member Username: Masterblaster Post Number: 56 Registered: 03-2005 |
There is a small 2-story building on one of the sidestreets south of Grand River and West of Lahser in that Grand River/Lahser Commercial Strip. The signage on the building is engraved in architectural concrete. It says: Redford Village Hall 1921 | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 834 Registered: 07-2005 |
Great description of Redford Rustic, good to see you back. | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 438 Registered: 05-2007 |
47to86: Would you be willing to scan and share (i.e. post) the Redford High School newspaper (Outpost) that you have? A few of us would find that information very interesting. | ||
47to86 Member Username: 47to86 Post Number: 4 Registered: 06-2007 |
vetalalumni I assume the information you would find interesting is the contents of the paper and not just the history articles mentioned above. I actually have the complete issues of all Outposts published between September, 1970 and June, 1977. I thought there were others, but haven't unearthed them at this point. Let's continue discussion of this topic in the Redford High School 70's thread. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 2036 Registered: 02-2004 |
Jesus, I wrote for the Outpost then. I'd like to see them too. The corner of Northrup and Curtis was the original Lahser Home. All of the houses on that street (and surrounding area) were very cool, all different, mostly built in the teens and twenties, very working class but skilled-trad-y, union-y. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1441 Registered: 12-2005 |
 Grand River, looking west to Lahser, note original Redford theatre on right  Grand River/Lahser, note C.F. Smith bldg on right, original Redford theatre on left  Here is a shot that has the NEW Redford theatre in the background. Does anyone know what the large, pillared building is just south of the Masonic temple along Redford street? That was gone by the 1960's when I started haunting the Redford--looks like it was a church. images from the WSU virtual Motor City website, originally from the Detroit News files. I think the top two are from when Redford was annexed to Detroit, by the look of the cars and what I know about the local businesses. www.redfordtheatre.com | ||
Parkguy Member Username: Parkguy Post Number: 55 Registered: 04-2007 |
A friend of mine recalls driving with his dad from their farm in South Lyon to Eastern Market via Grand River. They would have to back their truck up "Sand Hill" on the east bank of the Rouge River-- the regular low gear wouldn't handle the grade, but reverse was a lower gear and could make the climb. The old Interurban maps show the neighborhood as Sand Hill. There is a subdivision that still calls itself Sand Hill, marked by a sign at the entrance on Grand River. Up until 10 years ago or so, there was a clinic on Grand River at Redford Street, I believe, that was called Sand Hill Clinic. | ||
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 449 Registered: 08-2006 |
What is Old Redford today was a unincorporated town that was a commercial center in Redford Twp pre Detroit Annexation. We have a discussion of these types of towns going on in the FAiled Municipal Incorporation thread. I also would like to know why Detroit did not annex the rest of Redford. Maybe by vote those residents didnt want to be part of the city. Ever see the subdivision in Novi that is still Novi Twp!?!...maybe something like that? | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 440 Registered: 05-2007 |
Parkguy: I'm chuckling over your post today. It is humorous to visualize backing a truck up to climb the old "Sand Hill". Now that would be a funny photograph and caption! Thanks for the post. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 11609 Registered: 10-2003 |
Thanks for the info everybody! | ||
Kronprinz Member Username: Kronprinz Post Number: 511 Registered: 12-2006 |
The Redford Theater has a pretty "swell" organ... http://www.atos.org/locator/#m ichigan Please check the "calander" at http://www.atos.org and attend the Redfords goings-on. It's awesome and they need all the attendees they can muster | ||
Parkguy Member Username: Parkguy Post Number: 57 Registered: 04-2007 |
Vetal-- My buddy is a cracker-jack! Fareastsider-- I think that most of those annexations were by petition to the city from the areas to be annexed. Usually it was to get the excellent city services Detroit offered, plus to get some control over zoning and health regulations, like banning outhouses and getting hooked up to water and sewer systems. I know that before annexation, Rosedale Park had its own water source (south on Artesian-- thus the name) and was in the Redford Union School District. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1444 Registered: 12-2005 |
Kronprinz--thanks for the boost (I'm on the Redford board) but the Redford website is: www.redfordtheatre.com as listed in my previous post | ||
Waxx Member Username: Waxx Post Number: 214 Registered: 09-2006 |
Some recent pix I took of Old Redford with my newly purchased digital camera (as opposed 2 my traditional-and trusty-camera phone). Hope y'all like 'em. http://i172.photobucket.com/al bums/w23/313arts/P1000115.jpg http://i172.photobucket.com/al bums/w23/313arts/P1000122.jpg http://i172.photobucket.com/al bums/w23/313arts/P1000088.jpg http://i172.photobucket.com/al bums/w23/313arts/P1000083.jpg http://i172.photobucket.com/al bums/w23/313arts/P1000019.jpg http://i172.photobucket.com/al bums/w23/313arts/P1000107.jpg http://i172.photobucket.com/al bums/w23/313arts/P1000030.jpg http://i172.photobucket.com/al bums/w23/313arts/P1000120.jpg http://i172.photobucket.com/al bums/w23/313arts/P1000112.jpg I'll post more when I get a pro account on flickr. I've taken TONS of pix! | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1446 Registered: 12-2005 |
Waxx, your picture http://i172.photobucket.com/al bums/w23/313arts/P1000030.jpg brought me a chuckle. That storefront has been in that state of re-muddling since 1977--that's as far as they ever got. I'm sure the owner who was sponsoring the update has long since sold the building. Thats right up there with the Rosedale Players "Plywood Palace" theater on Grand River--a case study for EFIS is there ever was one. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5387 Registered: 11-2003 |
WAXX, excellent photos. Thanks. That term "Old Redford" is definitely some 1970s term. The signs are from that era of urban revival when areas were renamed and promoted by Detroit City Hall. As the white people were flocking to the suburbs, City Hall was paving sidewalks, installing brutalist concrete garbage cans, and revisionist signs. The above renaming had followed the off-street parking lots of the 1950 and 1960s, which popped up behind regional shopping areas in response to Northland and Eastland. Many of the lots supplanted homes behind the stores, and some luckly parking meter salesman made a ton of money selling thousands of them. Redford neighborhood of Detroit was way out there at the end of the Grand River electric feeder buses and had a wealthy cache'. The Management classes out there drove into downtown to run Detroit. We were proud of our Westside and aspired to live there. In any other city but Detroit, Redford would have been gentrified 25 yrs. ago and would have coffee houses, yoga studios, ballet lessons, and pilates today. The shoes and dress boutiques, small restaurants, a wine shop, and trendy bars would line Grand River and the sidestreets. But this is Detroit, and most white folks would rather commute 50 miles and live in Yeminsville. jjaba's descriptions about packed Grand River buses running every three minutes, controlled by dispatchers wearing white gloves at interim stops has been recorded on previous Grand River and transit threads. jjaba, Old Timey Westsider. | ||
Waxx Member Username: Waxx Post Number: 215 Registered: 09-2006 |
Thanks, fellas. I'm glad U liked them. Like I said previously, I got A WHOLE LOT MORE! when I get a pro account on flickr., I'll post them then. | ||
Waxx Member Username: Waxx Post Number: 216 Registered: 09-2006 |
Wow, jjaba. U got some stories 2 tell about the river, don'tcha? I'm BEYOND impressed! | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6094 Registered: 02-2004 |
Since the western part 6x 3 1/2 to 1 1/2 mile of Reford TWP hasn't been annexed to Detroit. Detroit could get the rest of it years from now. Even through voters or by govt' legislation change. If Detroit could annex the rest of Livonia Westland, Dearborn, Dearborn Heights, Garden City, Melvindale, Lincoln Park, River Rouge, Ecorse, Allen Park, Highland Park, the 5 Grosse Pointes , Harper Woods and Hamtramck. Then this city would be almost big as Chicago with over 2.5 million people. But that didn't happen and we folks are dealing a sizable big city with a shrinking population. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6095 Registered: 02-2004 |
it's a pitty that the old C.F. Building on the corner of Lahser and Grand River Ave. is long gone by fire and so the Old Redford Bowling Alley and few other stores in the crumbing now ghetto -ize shopping district. Even the Old Redford Library is transformed to African American Heritage Center before the extension was completed. The Redford High School is going to be shut down soon and the police station across the street is long closed. But the folks round there still take pride of the ghettohoods waiting for a developer to gentrified the area to their liking. |
