  Dustin89 Member Username: Dustin89 Post Number: 54 Registered: 07-2006 |
In the current issue (July 23-30, 2007) of U.S. News & World Report there is an article, from p. 34 to p.36, on Detroit and Newark and their recovery from the 1967 riots. The conclusion is that Newark is no longer the poster child of urban problems but Detroit continues to be just that. There are several pictures of Detroit, and some facts and figures: 28,000 vacant lots owned by the city, a jobless rate of 13.7%, a population drop from 1,670,144 in 1960 to 836,056 in 2005. Overall, the article paints a pretty bleak picture of Detroit, where there is some downtown development, but with neighborhoods rotting and a neighborhood development plan that does not cover 90% of neighborhoods. I suppose this article is fairly accurate, but it doesn't paint a complete picture of where the city stands. The area the article mentions several times is the Rosa Parks/Clairmount area where the riot originated. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1627 Registered: 06-2006 |
Don't believe the hype...Newark was designated the most violent place on earth just two years ago when they led the nation in violent crime for 2005... | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 898 Registered: 09-2005 |
I am not sure about Newark. The last time I passed by on the train (going to NYC) there was a big billboard sign that read “Help Wanted: Stop the Killings in Newark Now!” see the following article for a reference to that sign: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07 /04/nyregion/04school.html?ex= 1341201600&en=a22a614683106a47 &ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rs s | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 939 Registered: 07-2005 |
I thought it was Camden, NJ that was the most violent place in the universe? | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 255 Registered: 12-2006 |
I just took a train through Newark on the way to New York about 3 weeks ago. My dad turned to me and said, "This looks like Detroit, but worse". | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2450 Registered: 06-2004 |
Did Newark ever even have a core industry? Isn't it basically an NYC suburb? | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3247 Registered: 02-2005 |
It had industry. And most certainly not a suburb. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N ewark%2C_nj Newark's neighborhoods are much more intact than Detroit's. It has had plenty of recent downtown investment. Like Detroit, its government has fostered much entertainment/event-based and culture-based downtown growth, seen with a new performing arts center, new baseball stadium, and upcoming new NHL hockey arena. The city has good bones, in my estimation, probably a bit bitter than Detroit because it has a strong rail network and more intact neighborhoods. | ||
Dustin89 Member Username: Dustin89 Post Number: 56 Registered: 07-2006 |
I agree with you guys-I was just trying to accurately relate what the article said. Newark & Camden are dealing with much more serious crime problems. Another issue for them is that they are smallish cities; Detroit is Michigan's biggest city and the anchor of Southeast Michigan. I'm not sure what the reasons for Newark's existence are. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1169 Registered: 04-2006 |
I don't think Newark is as far ahead of Detroit as the article claims. I think Detroit started to make it's turnaround a little before Newark. Earlier this year the NYC local media was sensationalizing the number of murders that was occurring in Newark. It's a little more densely populated than Detroit, but I think Detroit has a bit more going for it in terms of proposed developments than Newark. Plus, Detroit is the central city of the metropolis, whereas Newark is not. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9589 Registered: 10-2003 |
People can debate all they want but this is the most important thing from the Wikipedia article: quote: Until Detroit can stop the flight and see an increase in population it is no comparison. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1170 Registered: 04-2006 |
"Until Detroit can stop the flight and see an increase in population it is no comparison." Well, Newark is in a good situation because it is a 20 minute commute by train to midtown Manhattan, but a lot cheaper than Manhattan. A lot of people who are being priced out of NYC are going there. | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 941 Registered: 07-2005 |
No way Jt1, this is THE most important thing from the Wikipedia article: quote: | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9590 Registered: 10-2003 |
Excellent. Maybe we can be sister cities and send them one of ours. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9591 Registered: 10-2003 |
Crimes rates in Newark and Detroit aren't remotely comparable. Per 100,000 residents Newark violent crime: 1004 Detroit violent crime: 2361 Property crime: Newark: 4526 Detroit: 6004 While I love Detroit let's be realists before we make assumptions about other cities. | ||
Dustin89 Member Username: Dustin89 Post Number: 58 Registered: 07-2006 |
Per 100,000 residents is an unfair comparison. Newark is a much smaller city. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1171 Registered: 04-2006 |
"I thought it was Camden, NJ that was the most violent place in the universe?" Camden had the highest murder rate in 2005, I believe... | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 2352 Registered: 06-2004 |
Jt1 - thanks for that. The rest of you - open your eyes. Please. | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 942 Registered: 07-2005 |
Thanks. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C amden,_New_Jersey#High_crime_r ate quote: | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3249 Registered: 02-2005 |
While we're on the subject of comparative analysis of cities, let me say that one rust belt city Detroit is pulling away from (and again, it's hard to compare, because Detroit is so much bigger with so much more impact) is Buffalo, NY. I was just there, and I admired the 'good bones' that the city has: reasonably intact housing stock, many beautiful, well preserved old downtown buildings, transit (rail that leads right onto Main St.); however, nothing was going on downtown on the Saturday I was there, and the waterfront is a mess compared to what Detroit already has, and especially compared to what we will start building. It makes you thankful to be in a large, influential city at the center of a major metro...we have tons of stuff going on downtown. Buffalo lacks events. I know I would have probably been impressed if it was a weeekend with a festival or a hockey game or something, but the fact of the matter is the downtown was more barren then Detroit even when there are no sports going on. Buffalo has a waterfront that is cut off from the CBD by a skyway, and once you navigate your way down there, what you see is very suburban-looking housing mixed with unimpressive green space and even some office parks. I will give the city credit because of its transit, because of the good % of area residents that work downtown, and because, while it does have a high level of crime, it is much better than Detroit; however, my observations point out that there is plenty to be thankful for and plenty to admire in Detroit in its current state. Imagine 10 years from now. Soon, we won't have to worry about being ostracized in the national press. And don't forget the good press we've had lately (i.e. cover of the Wall Street Journal). | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1572 Registered: 11-2003 |
Dustin, per 100,000 residents is probably the best comparison there is. If you looked at flat numbers without weighting by pop, that would be inaccurate. Never been to Newark. Won't comment. But Detroit sure as shit is in a pretty big hole. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9592 Registered: 10-2003 |
I have to check a different report - Camden doesn't come up on the cities with more than 100K listing. But of cities with more than 100K the highest murder rate per 100,000 residents was: Gary Indiana at 48 Detroit and Flint at 47 B'ham Alabama at 45 Baltimore at 43 Richmond, CA at 41 Other Michigan cities: AA - 0 GR- 11 Lansing - 5 Sterling Heights - 2 Warren - 4 *Also - my numbers above were from 2005 (another mistake on my part) | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9593 Registered: 10-2003 |
Camden for 2005: 41 murders per 100,000 (33 murders - 80,125 residents), 2096 violent crimes per 100K. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1630 Registered: 06-2006 |
Ihearthed shit, I think you may be right about Camden...I may be confusing them because I was accepted to both of the Rutgers' (Newark and Camden) when I was applying to LS and I remember how ironic I thought it was that I was considering leaving Detroit, but for an even more violent city...it was around that time (2005) the articles were running...I really don't remember which of the two it was but now that you mention it I think it may have been Camden | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3250 Registered: 02-2005 |
I'll be applying to both law schools in Newark, Thejesus. People are sometime surprised, saying, "isn't it a hole?" If I can be positive about Detroit, surely no city will disappoint me. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 2353 Registered: 06-2004 |
quote: That is one of the greatest things about being from Detroit -- You can visit anywhere, and think "this is pretty nice..." | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1631 Registered: 06-2006 |
^you know I've never thought about that but you're absolutely right...I was in Cleveland a few weeks back and GF had to keep telling me to shut up about how cool some of the buildings and streetscape were | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 340 Registered: 07-2006 |
My brother worked in Newark for some time (perhaps he will post here). The downtown core has several major corporations and small offices of large law firms. There is also one large vacant skyscraper, while another was converted in the past few years to rental housing (with rents pretty high considering its Newark). This building was the first new high-rise residential housing built that was not subsidized by government since the 1960s. So far as I know, there has not been the degree of widespread loft development that has been occurring in Detroit. In Camden, by contrast, there is no major corporate activity, with the exception of Campbell's. There is one modern residential loft development building that has been completed (the RCA Victor Building, formerly a ruin), and another condominium development being built nearby by the same developer. There is also a redeveloped riverfront, with an aquarium, a minor league baseball stadium, and the battleship New Jersey. This area is kind of set off from the rest of the city, however. Camden has much, much less going for it than Newark, if only because the city to which it is close (Philadelphia) is not nearly as expensive to live in as that to which Newark is close (NYC). | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 341 Registered: 07-2006 |
Mackinaw, I work with someone who went to law school at Rutgers-Newark. If you live nearby, then I suppose you could walk. If not, parking can be a big hassle. | ||
Spacemonkey Member Username: Spacemonkey Post Number: 212 Registered: 03-2006 |
Detroit residents by and large are far more violent and less educated than Newark or anywhere else. In fact, they pride themselves in being so. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3254 Registered: 02-2005 |
Thanks for the info, Cman. I will look closely at the city and school if I get in. I want to be sure that there is a decent near-campus student population before I commit, having left WSU undergrad because it was too commuter-focused. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2451 Registered: 06-2004 |
quote: disappoint isn't the word I'd use - I've found being from Detroit helps me appreciate a lot of things others take for granted as well as things Detroit has that other places don't (like the lack of pretension among the residents). | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 943 Registered: 07-2005 |
Hey Mackinaw, if you don't mind, would you please elaborate a little more on this: quote: | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1632 Registered: 06-2006 |
^I go there too and I think he means that an unusually large portion of the student body does not live on or near campus... the school focuses more on building parking garages than dormitories b/c there's a lack of demand from students who want to live downtown | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 944 Registered: 07-2005 |
 | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3255 Registered: 02-2005 |
Haha. Quozl, I'm not saying its the university's fault, although they certainly break down and build a lot of parking areas, but the fact is, too large of a proportion of the people you interact with every day drive home at 3pm. WSU could become a collegetown within the city, but it just isn't right now. Therefore, UM was the place. I think college, and especially the undergrad scene, should be based around a community. So, when I mentioned Newark, I meant that I will be trying to make sure that the schools there have a substantial student population on/near campus, because it's important to me. (Message edited by mackinaw on July 17, 2007) | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 947 Registered: 07-2005 |
Okay, I am reading you correctly. I attended the University of Florida and Auburn University, both located in great 24/7 college towns. (Message edited by quozl on July 17, 2007) | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9553 Registered: 10-2003 |
As long as the fuck-tards keep dropping out of high school (like it is really difficult) then Detroit will continue to suffer. Education is the key to getting out of the poverty cycle but you wouldn't know it with high drop out rate. I guess people would rather "keep it real" than live the life of a contributing member of society. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2452 Registered: 06-2004 |
if you 'keep it real' in a very real manner, it pays better than the conventional path - *that's* the problem, risk be damned. | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 948 Registered: 07-2005 |
quote:Huh? How does one "keep it real" in a fake manner, please tell. Instead of speaking in riddles, just spit it out: Crime pays. And if you get caught, you're guaranteed to get 3 squares a day, a mattress to crash on, weight room, heating and cooling and don't have to pay a damn thing. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 4691 Registered: 10-2003 |
Seems to me that these shiny new loft developments, stadiums, and one new HQ relocation won't mean that much to the poor folks living at Harper and Van Dyke and elsewhere. Seems like these "developments" won't change a damn thing for the majority of the residents. -Steps off the soapbox | ||
Chow Member Username: Chow Post Number: 390 Registered: 10-2003 |
You are just thinking in terms of direct cause and effect. No it won't directly benefit residents at Van Dyke and Harper. But increasing the corporate tax base, the re-establishment of downtown as the core of the region, the retail that comes with it, the jobs that come with retail, the jobs that come with construction mean A LOT to a city that has no money to throw at an area like Van Dyke and Harper. |
