 
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 2996
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 5:43 pm: |    |
quote:In most cases I normally favor your side of the great debates of this forum, however I do need to point out that even cities with good/great transit build huge amounts of parking.
Example: Trump Tower Chicago.
486 residential condos
286 hotel rooms
1000 parking spaces
You're using one project in another city to justify a well-oiled machine of disproportionate and excessive amounts of automobile parking throughout Detroit. I could understand if Detroit had an occupied building on every block of downtown, but it doesn't. Please explain how this stretch is applicable here. |
Detroit313
Member
Username: Detroit313
Post Number: 446
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 7:29 pm: | |
Danindc-
I'm with you all the way on this one,
but the Trump and the Book are simular sized projects so I understand the need for more parking.
And if we can add a few condos to the equation, the better.
<313> |
Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 1786
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 7:35 pm: | |
Back in the fifties and sixties (Pre-Walgreens and CVS pharmacies) Kinsel's downtown was the only 24/7 pharmacy in Detroit. They did a lot of business due to that. |
Wschnitt
Member
Username: Wschnitt
Post Number: 35
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 11:13 am: | |
Does anyone have any new pictures? |
Oliverdouglas
Member
Username: Oliverdouglas
Post Number: 131
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 11:19 am: | |
re: new pictures of Griswold - just prep work so far, not much to see. |
Ptpelee
Member
Username: Ptpelee
Post Number: 25
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 6:42 pm: | |
In the '20's and '30's the Tunnel Bus would stop in front of Kinsel's drug store. My Grandfather said if you stayed there long enough you would always see someone form "Down home" get off the bus. (Nova Scotia). At the time the trains from Eastern Canada arrived directly across the river where Dieppe Park is now. |
Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13
Post Number: 2455
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 7:12 pm: | |
I believe there were two Brass Rails -- the one on Adams across from Grand Circus Park and the one just down Michigan Avenue from Kinsel's (near People's).
I still wonder why the old United Shirt (now American Coney Island annex) building was reduced from four stories to two. Fire, maybe? |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 5000
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 7:48 pm: | |
It doesnt even look like the same building Fury unless they removed the stairs on the Griswold side... |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 45
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 8:01 pm: | |
I don't think it will have a big effect on the overall skyline (even if it's two more stories) because it's so closely packed in between even taller buildings that only poke at the overall skyline. It niec to hear that it will be taller though.
They've already begun on fixing the streets and streetscapes for Grand River and Griswold.
(Message edited by Detroitrise on September 26, 2007) |
Charlottepaul
Member
Username: Charlottepaul
Post Number: 1760
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 9:42 pm: | |
Looks like it will be pretty visible from the Capitol Park side as it is taller than any of the other buildings on its block. http://www.thegriswold.com/gal lery.htm |
Toog05
Member
Username: Toog05
Post Number: 162
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 11:44 pm: | |
How is the griswold coming along? |
Bearinabox
Member
Username: Bearinabox
Post Number: 429
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 11:55 pm: | |
The site doesn't look any different than it did when they first demoed People's Outfitting. The Book-Cadillac really looks nice with windows, though. |
Kenp
Member
Username: Kenp
Post Number: 901
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 10:23 am: | |
as of nov 2
|
Detroitbill
Member
Username: Detroitbill
Post Number: 390
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 12:17 pm: | |
Is the Griswold condos a go ahead for sure? I know they are building the parking garage but was wondering if the status of the condos is the same..
With all the financing problems in Michigan and developers haveing a hard time building anywhere it seems I was wondering if the bank pulled the financing on the condo portion? |
Mdoyle
Member
Username: Mdoyle
Post Number: 268
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 12:19 pm: | |
Slow going on the Griswold. Perhaps it will speed up in the spring now that the caissons are being poured. Im excited to see it get going. |
Apbest
Member
Username: Apbest
Post Number: 651
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 2:32 pm: | |
http://modeldmedia.com/develop mentnews/griswold12307.aspx |
Charlottepaul
Member
Username: Charlottepaul
Post Number: 2083
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 7:27 pm: | |
The Griswold's..."concrete panel walls will start rising at the end of December."
Pre-cast? Anybody know? Can't say that I have ever seen a precast deck with an occupied building on top of it. This could be a first. |
Rocket_city
Member
Username: Rocket_city
Post Number: 491
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 7:41 pm: | |
I'd assume it would look similar to the elevator garage at Lofts of Merchant's Row. |
Warrenite84
Member
Username: Warrenite84
Post Number: 193
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 2:26 am: | |
Wasn't the Greektown Garage mostly pre-cast panels? |
Tigers2005
Member
Username: Tigers2005
Post Number: 168
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 8:13 am: | |
It was all precast panels. |
Mdoyle
Member
Username: Mdoyle
Post Number: 269
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 10:28 am: | |
nearly all parking decks are precast, It doesnt mean theyre not unique but rather that pouring them offsite is less expensive and can be done faster. |
Charlottepaul
Member
Username: Charlottepaul
Post Number: 2090
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 1:25 pm: | |
At Greektown, the parking was precast whereas the hotel is cast-in-place. You can't put something on top of precast. Pre cast does not work the same as cast-in-place. |
Charlottepaul
Member
Username: Charlottepaul
Post Number: 2091
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 1:29 pm: | |
Pre-cast: http://www.flickr.com/photos/g ab482/531971896/
Cast-in-place: http://www.flickr.com/photos/g ab482/2080628275/ |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3789
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 1:31 pm: | |
quote:At Greektown, the parking was precast whereas the hotel is cast-in-place. You can't put something on top of precast. Pre cast does not work the same as cast-in-place.
Huh? I have a building under construction now that uses a substantial quantity of precast planks for the floor systems.
True, precast concrete is prestressed, and is reinforced very differently from most cast-in-place construction. If you couldn't "place anything on top" of precast, though, it'd be pretty useless, no? |
Charlottepaul
Member
Username: Charlottepaul
Post Number: 2093
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 1:35 pm: | |
Well you can put pre-cast on top of pre-cast, but not much else. Once you get a pre-cast parking deck much taller then 8 levels, then pre-cast doesn't hold up too well. |
Charlottepaul
Member
Username: Charlottepaul
Post Number: 2094
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 1:38 pm: | |
Now, perhaps only the walls are going to be precast panels whereas the structure is to be cast in place. That is another possibility. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3790
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 1:48 pm: | |
quote:Well you can put pre-cast on top of pre-cast, but not much else. Once you get a pre-cast parking deck much taller then 8 levels, then pre-cast doesn't hold up too well.
And you base this on what? If the design calcs demonstrate that it works, isn't that more robust than some made-up rule-of-thumb?
Any reason why one couldn't frame structural steel or even wood into precast concrete?
quote:Now, perhaps only the walls are going to be precast panels whereas the structure is to be cast in place. That is another possibility.
Walls are structure too, if they are load-bearing. |
Detroitplanner
Member
Username: Detroitplanner
Post Number: 1468
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 3:22 pm: | |
Trolley plaza is a tall structure that is precast on top of a garage and it is 25 years old.
Millender Center is mostly precast over garage and is 20 years old. Go to Toronto and you will see buildings like that everywhere. |
Norwalk
Member
Username: Norwalk
Post Number: 151
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 4:26 pm: | |
Wasn't the Millender Center Precast as well? |
Urbanoutdoors
Member
Username: Urbanoutdoors
Post Number: 654
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 10, 2007 - 10:50 pm: | |
http://www.modeldmedia.com/dev elopmentnews/griswold12307.asp x |
Botornig
Member
Username: Botornig
Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 11:23 am: | |
From what my sources tell me, the condos will be a steel structure on top of the parking garage. The garage is being reinforced to support this structure.
I am one of the buyers of a unit. |
Kenp
Member
Username: Kenp
Post Number: 905
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 12:39 pm: | |
Botornig, If you give us a tour when you move in I will buy the beer. |
Charlottepaul
Member
Username: Charlottepaul
Post Number: 2122
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 1:03 pm: | |
The reason why you don't want residential units on top of a pre-cast deck is because pre-cast decks move. Hopefully the 'reinforced' deck is done well. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3810
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 1:07 pm: | |
quote:The reason why you don't want residential units on top of a pre-cast deck is because pre-cast decks move. Hopefully the 'reinforced' deck is done well.
Everything moves--especially in a seismic event.
The framing for the residential units is likely supported by columns--not precast plank.
In the case of buildings, "done well" is irrelevant. You either design and build for the appropriate design loads, or you don't. |
Nickstone
Member
Username: Nickstone
Post Number: 31
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 1:31 pm: | |
Botornig, where can I find information on the rates these places will be selling for? I was stunned to visit the website and find that they had small units (as well as large), increasing the possibility of my being able to possibly afford one... anyway if you can point me in the right direction to find out how much these places are selling for, I'd appreciate that very much |
Botornig
Member
Username: Botornig
Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 1:33 pm: | |
Kenp,
sure I'll give ya a tour once I move in. I am hoping it's closer to 2008 than 2009  |
Botornig
Member
Username: Botornig
Post Number: 4
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 1:38 pm: | |
Nickstone,
If you give me your email, I can have someone call you about it. I don't think they post the prices publically. You are correct, they converted some of the larger spaces into 2 smaller ones so that they could appeal to the younger professionals that can't afford the big units.
I think the smaller units were selling for under 200k, if I remember.
This project is going to be awesome when completed. As soon is the structure is in the air, you will see the demand increase significantly.
Upscale condos in the central business district? I never would have imagined.
-Botornig |
Kenp
Member
Username: Kenp
Post Number: 953
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 2:42 pm: | |
Botornig,
Any info that you can share regarding the decision to postpone the building of the Griswold condos. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1294
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 2:46 pm: | |
This thread is pretty much obsolete due to the one below (awaiting edit):
https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/messages/5/123567.html?1199298613
(Message edited by DetroitRise on January 02, 2008) |
Charlottepaul
Member
Username: Charlottepaul
Post Number: 2178
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 1:05 pm: | |
...or we can just talk about the Book Cadillac on here... |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1299
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 9:37 am: | |
I guess, but I didn't know the Book-Cadillac was growing taller. |
Burnsie
Member
Username: Burnsie
Post Number: 1245
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 10:39 am: | |
It actually got a bit shorter, since the height of the main mechanical penthouse was reduced by 11 feet or so. |
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