Granmontrules Member Username: Granmontrules
Post Number: 96 Registered: 01-2007
| Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 8:31 am: | |
Interesting Article. I don't suppose he will get a lot of sympathy for this. Maybe we won't see him on TV in ugly Hawaiian shirts anytime soon. http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070615/M ETRO/706150380/1003 |
Angry_dad Member Username: Angry_dad
Post Number: 150 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 8:50 am: | |
Considering that Kwame has impersonated a Mayor for how long?....... |
Mcp001 Member Username: Mcp001
Post Number: 2765 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 9:01 am: | |
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Genesyxx Member Username: Genesyxx
Post Number: 749 Registered: 02-2004
| Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 9:02 am: | |
^^^^^ LOL Sad but true... No wonder he hasn't been on our boards in awhile. |
Ed_golick Member Username: Ed_golick
Post Number: 673 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 9:21 am: | |
Steve's just doing his job. That's what investigative reporters do. Anything for the story. |
Tom48236 Member Username: Tom48236
Post Number: 4 Registered: 01-2004
| Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 10:26 am: | |
search "metro times" for an interesting piece on Wilson |
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy
Post Number: 5438 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 11:09 am: | |
Steve's not just doing his job but he's also BECOME the story as well. |
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit
Post Number: 1103 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 11:26 am: | |
Our own Geraldo Rivera. |
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy
Post Number: 5440 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 11:28 am: | |
I'm sure people are waiting in line to pitch a chair at him too. From the tone of the article, it looks as though the Carlsbad cops have him dead to rights with the phone records. |
Rocket_city Member Username: Rocket_city
Post Number: 296 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 12:13 pm: | |
I wonder how else he could have uncovered the mayor's scandal though. I don't support him breakin the law, but I do support him uncovering some truths about the untouchable mayor. |
Noggin Member Username: Noggin
Post Number: 94 Registered: 09-2004
| Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 12:24 pm: | |
It is unfortunate that Wilson is the story and not the Kilpatricks stealing from the charity. Just another day in the city of Detroit. |
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 5645 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 5:58 pm: | |
This is what happens when you're constantly pushing the limits and blinded by one subject. I love the 'oh, no big deal, he's just doing his job' responses. I'd hope the mayor would receive the same nonchalant "oh, bless his heart" sentiment, but I know he won't. Double-standards are the beauty of life, huh? |
Wazootyman Member Username: Wazootyman
Post Number: 219 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 6:38 pm: | |
You're assuming that they should be judged the same, which they should not. Having never been an "investigative reporter" I can't say for certain, but I would assume that getting the story trumps all - within reason. Steve Wilson has no direct impact on peoples' lives, as where the mayor of Detroit and the charity do. Kwame is dirty, and a lousy mayor. I don't know anyone can stand up for him or defend his poor ethics. |
Gplimpton Member Username: Gplimpton
Post Number: 13 Registered: 05-2007
| Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 6:45 pm: | |
Funny and sad that it's come to this, KK. And the careful way the article was written seems to suggest they don't have a lot in the way of evidence on our favorite Hawaiian report. Nothing like wasting a little time and money, eh Kwame? |
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55
Post Number: 242 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 8:13 pm: | |
Perhaps a more pertinent question to ask is, "How many times in the past has Wilson used this same tactic to illicitly obtain private records of other politicians and public figures, only to find no wrong-doing, and was never caught doing it?" I would be willing to bet this tactic was an old, well-used trick on the part of Wilson. If so, it would be interesting to know whose records he snooped into. |
Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248
Post Number: 646 Registered: 10-2006
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 12:20 am: | |
Wilson on Thursday said he did nothing wrong. "I have done nothing illegal or unethical," he said, suggesting perhaps the hotel staff simply assumed they were talking to the mayor." What a bunch of crap this is. Oh, and by the way, two wrongs do not make a right. False impersonation is illegal. If he wants to stake his reputation on "catching people doing wrong", he needs to come clean with his own wrongdoing. |
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72
Post Number: 564 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 12:24 am: | |
BIG PROPS TO Yvette248 for bringing common sense to this topic!!! |
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72
Post Number: 565 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 12:26 am: | |
BTW, does anyone really think a criminal will actually say "yeah, I did something wrong"? (Message edited by detroitej72 on June 17, 2007) |
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy
Post Number: 5441 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 12:26 am: | |
This is a sticky situation all the way around. Yes, I believe the mayor needs a watchdog to keep him honest but are Steve Wilson and his tactics the best way to do it? Let's just say the mayor has legitimate business to lure investors from a certain city. How would he look if he was suddenly ambushed by a renegade reporter asking all sorts of incriminating questions? Would the mayor lose credibility in the eyes of those investors? If that were the case, did Steve Wilson serve his cause well or did Steve Wilson, in doing so also hurt our fair city by submarining our mayor? So I think Steve Wilson DOES have an impact upon us- if he continues to badger our mayor while he's on "business" (I realize that can be subjective as well) and paints him in a negative light to others- Steve Wilson makes all of us look bad to a certain degree. In essence Steve is shooting down our city's CEO at every turn by following him around and actually keeping him away from doing any sort of business- good or bad. |
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72
Post Number: 566 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 12:30 am: | |
It's funny that 'saint Steve' lives in Florida and claims to be a part of channel 7 that supposedly stands for Detroit. Perhaps Steve stands for his BIG paychecks? |
Eric Member Username: Eric
Post Number: 868 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 12:50 am: | |
Is anyone surprised that someone like Wilson and his ambush/yellow journalism tactics could possibly break the law for a story? And it not like this first time he's been questionable ethics. No wonder one he's been so good at catching Kwame it takes a crook to know a crook. |
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72
Post Number: 569 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 12:55 am: | |
Let's see, how would folks feel if he worked for CNN? How about Fox news? I guess if your guy is towing whatever line you choose to believe, than its all good, however, if he's the bad guy's tool, then he must be evil! Hopefully most folk's with common sense will call for jail for this clown, as well as any other local news fool that promotes this crap. Is it any wonder why most educated people turn of the local news? If it bleeds, it leeds!!! (Message edited by detroitej72 on June 17, 2007) |
Danny Member Username: Danny
Post Number: 6061 Registered: 02-2004
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 1:41 am: | |
KING KWAME is problably laughing at him right now. |
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 5647 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 1:53 am: | |
Smogboy, I don't think him doing this while the mayor is away or at home is really the issue. The issue is a reporter so blinded by his 'gotcha' bent, that he crosses a legal line, ironically, turning the 'gotcha' moment on to himself. I don't think you'll find a soul that says that investigative journal is unneeded, but when you cross the line in your quest for the truth (as you see it, and by lying, no less lol) the law should be there to keep you in line just like everyone else that crosses the line. The fact that he's an 'investigative' reporter doesn't change that or make him any less deserving of prosecution. If you can't investigate within the confines of the law to catch the mayor slipping up, then perhaps you need to find yourself another story, or another profession, entirely, huh? This story isn't about whether you, I, or anyone else, love or hate Wilson or Kilpatrick; it's about a rogue reporter believing because he/she is searching for the truth (as they see it) he/she is above the law. Let's be real, Steve is not doing God's work, here, and by that I mean something so important that you feel laws are for mortal men and nuisances. And, for those who still believe that two wrongs make a right, I guess double-standards are alive an well. (Message edited by lmichigan on June 17, 2007) |
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72
Post Number: 573 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 1:59 am: | |
^^^^ Great job Lmichigan, I couldn't have said it better myself... |
Young_detroiter Member Username: Young_detroiter
Post Number: 200 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 2:34 am: | |
As Detroitej72 mentioned about Steve's Florida residency, imagine how much he must be earning? I have no idea how frequently he makes that trip, but he must obviously be earning more and compensated more than the average reporter. |
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy
Post Number: 5443 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 2:42 am: | |
Lmichigan, I totally concur. Stepping across ethical lines to get a story is Steve Wilson becoming part of the story and I always thought that a responsible journalist is never supposed to do that. I had a conversation with my dad about his tactics and what seperates him from real investigative reporters is that he doesn't just report the facts. He puts his personal spin on them and then points the finger to us and questions why we aren't outraged. He's become such a nuisance already to the point of would anyone even want to grant him a real interview? Would anyone be brave enough to get in front of a camera with him without fear that he might twist their own words to serve Steve's better interest? Even if Kwame were on the up & up and was upfront with his dealings now- could he seriously trust Steve Wilson to give a fair & accurate account of his side of the story any more? He's liable to spin anything to hype and put his own unique spin and agenda on things. That's surely not the kind of journalism I was brought up to respect nor want to hear. It's not a report- it's a thinly veiled editorial nearing slander at times. |
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy
Post Number: 5444 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 2:45 am: | |
Where's Vince Wade when we need him the most??? |
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72
Post Number: 575 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 3:06 am: | |
Lmichigan, I totally concur. Stepping across ethical lines to get a story is Steve Wilson becoming part of the story and I always thought that a responsible journalist is never supposed to do that. ______________________________ ___________________ There seems to be many so called 'reporters' who try to become the "next Hunter S. Thompson", trying to make themselve's part of the story, Rhymeswithrawk, Please come to Detroityes's aid... At least he was in the gonzo age of days past... (Message edited by detroitej72 on June 17, 2007) |
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72
Post Number: 576 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 3:11 am: | |
Hunter, not rawk, although Rawk will hopefully be remembered long after we're all gone... |
Psip Member Username: Psip
Post Number: 1922 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 3:23 am: | |
You mean the Newshawk, Jerry Stanecki
|
Steve_wilson_wxyztv Member Username: Steve_wilson_wxyztv
Post Number: 131 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 9:05 am: | |
I never deserted this forum, only forgot my exact username and password but took the time to dig it out again in wake of some of the posts on this thread. I’ve always said I’m certainly not above honest criticism nor too good to reply to it but some of the crap I’ve read here is based on misconception, faulty logic and outright untruths. First to those who have jumped to the conclusion I’ve “stepped across the line” to commit a crime, pay attention. No charge has been filed. The mayor, in his spare time while still steaming about again being caught red handed using money collected to help children and other Detroiters, has gone after the messenger for the message he never wanted people to know but can’t deny. (You did see the Civic Fund name on that check, right? And Christine Beatty’s signature at the bottom? And although three children (the mayor’s own) may have benefited from the LaCosta Spa adventure, that about covers it.) As for “its not okay to break the law to get a story,” I know waiting for a verdict is beyond the patience of some of you here who don’t want to be distracted by the facts but, hey, you think you might want to wait and see if ever a CHARGE is filed and there’s even an effort to prosecute before you convict me here? Think about this for a minute: the mayor filed the complaint, got the police report and then leaked it to the paper. Is he so poorly advised that he didn’t think the BETTER story would be if/when there was ever a CHARGE filed? Or didn’t even HE (with the advantage of a look at the evidence outlined in the report) decide this was going to be his only shot here, that he’d look pretty petty to mention it after the case is dropped by the authorities? The smog must be affecting Smogboy’s vision: “…looks as though the Carlsbad cops have him dead to rights with the phone records.” Dead to rights—for making a call? I make lots of ‘em and, as with these, do NOTHING unethical, much less illegal. If you ever bother to read the police report itself, you’ll see the evidence is pretty thin by any standard, even if you’re looking for a “crime” to prosecute. Lmichigan: “This is what happens when you’re constantly pushing the limits and blinded by one subject…” Yup, I’ve done more than one story on Detroit’s mayor because he’s acted improperly on more than one occasion. I’ve also done stories on Steenburgh in Warren and L Brooks in Oakland County…and the two Emmys my team and I won last night were about seniors getting screwed by financial advisors and Detroit city teachers helping themselves at the expense of their students. If we count ‘em up, Lmichigan, the mayor stories are a fraction of what I do here. You must not be a regular viewer. Or maybe you have bad reception at your place? Get cable! And Detroitej72 who is ready to put me behind bars but has never seen the police report or heard any audio tape of what was (and was not) actually said by me can’t resist that tired, old red herring the mayor’s men always drag out whenever they can’t come up with anything else. “Saint Steve lives in Florida and claims to be part of channel 7…” This would be like me complaining Kilpatrick claims to be the mayor. Like my work or not—and we can certainly agree to disagree—I work plenty hard at 7, as do so many of my colleagues there in Special Projects and throughout the television station. If we can find time when I’m not working, maybe you could come over to my home near the station and we could discuss this over lunch sometime? And, yes, I have property in Florida and elsewhere. So what? Do you attack Carl Levin for having a home in metro DC and argue that proves he only CLAIMS to care about Michigan and its people? I think my dedication to this community and the people who live here is pretty clear to most folks in the work I do, regardless of where else I may choose to invest for retirement. You want to support Kilpatrick? Fine. Knock yourself out. I've said many times before and I'll say it again here: I have no personal animosity for the man. He has the potential to be a great leader and I get no personal enjoyment in pointing his frequent misconduct that hurts this great city and its people. I know plenty of reporters who, like me, would LOVE to see this city benefit by mature leadership truly in the public interest...and this guy is certainly capable. Having said that, though, enabling the status quo by stretching logic as far as you must to condone his being repeatedly untruthful and putting himself and his family ahead of the people he was elected to serve, well, is that going to better the lives of people who live and do business here? THEY can't get their children educated, the overstretched and frequently mismanaged police to come promptly when called, or afford the taxes that keep climbing to pay for unspeakable wastes that satisfy the mayor's ego. Look, a reporter’s job is to aggressively dig for the facts and report them, not just broadcast every politician's self-serving comments and reprint his/her press releases. People who do that are called stenographers, not journalists. (Message edited by Steve_wilson_wxyztv on June 17, 2007) |
Buddyinrichmond Member Username: Buddyinrichmond
Post Number: 186 Registered: 02-2004
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 9:16 am: | |
Spoken with all the pride of a used car salesman. Keep up the great work Steve! |
Mcp001 Member Username: Mcp001
Post Number: 2767 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 9:50 am: | |
I'm curious about two things: What ever happened to Jerry Stanecki? The last place that I've seen him was in a documentary on Jimmy Hoffa that has been shown on The History Channel. Second, we can put this story to bed right now by asking Mr. Wilson just one question: Did you tell the staff at the La Costa Hotel that you were Mayor Kilpatrick? |
Steve_wilson_wxyztv Member Username: Steve_wilson_wxyztv
Post Number: 132 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 10:04 am: | |
Mcp001, I have a feeling the truth will not put this story to bed for Kilpatrick supporters who clearly tried and convicted me already without the burden of looking at ANY of the evidence. But, to answer your question directly: Neither I nor any member of my team ever told anyone that I was Kwame Kilpatrick or the mayor of Detroit or any such thing. I spoke to Jerry on the phone a few months back. I believe he was in the area and doing commercials for...was it Father & Son? |
Gplimpton Member Username: Gplimpton
Post Number: 18 Registered: 05-2007
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 10:06 am: | |
All the Steve-haters here are just the same old, tired posters who only vaguely remember some of the great work he's done, but object to his "in your face" style. Deal with it, it gets results. And newsflash: He's broken more stories in the past 2 months than Channels 2 and 4 have in the past 2 years. |
Mcp001 Member Username: Mcp001
Post Number: 2769 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 10:20 am: | |
Thank you for the quick replies, Mr. Wilson. It's a shame that Mr. Josar couldn't have asked the same thing...but it would've made for a very short article. |
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity
Post Number: 705 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 10:54 am: | |
Steve: Keep up the good work. |
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55
Post Number: 244 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 12:13 pm: | |
"As for “its not okay to break the law to get a story,” I know waiting for a verdict is beyond the patience of some of you here who don’t want to be distracted by the facts..." Wow. This from a guy who shoves a microphone and camera in people's faces on the street and demands immediate answers; then, he dramatically presents his attack piece as "proof" of wrong-doing on the newscast. Wilson acts as police, judge, and jury on the people he wants to go after. When the tables are turned, however, and there is reason to believe that Wilson committed wrong-doing, he goes ballistic if anyone criticises him. It would be amusing to have some camera crew follow him around while he is doing his daily business in Florida. It would be very enlightening to see someone shove a camera in his face while he is coming out of a restaurant and demand answers to their questions. He can dish it out, but he can't take it. |
Psip Member Username: Psip
Post Number: 1923 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 12:40 pm: | |
WTVS Has an online poll asking is Steve should face Felony charges. http://www.wtvs.org/index.htm on the left bar at the bottom Police investigators in California have recommended felony charges against local investigative TV reporter Steve Wilson for obtaining Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick's personal hotel and billing records by impersonating the mayor. Should Steve Wilson face felony charges? Yes 64% No 35% |
Bumble Member Username: Bumble
Post Number: 156 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 1:00 pm: | |
quote:Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5645 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 5:58 pm: ------------------------------ ------------------------------ -------------------- This is what happens when you're constantly pushing the limits and blinded by one subject. I love the 'oh, no big deal, he's just doing his job' responses. I'd hope the mayor would receive the same nonchalant "oh, bless his heart" sentiment, but I know he won't. Double-standards are the beauty of life, huh? Steve Wilson is paid to be a muckraker, and Kilpatrick is paid to be a competent executive. Only one of them is doing his job. Not being able to distinguish between opposites must really be the beauty of life. |
Eric Member Username: Eric
Post Number: 869 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 1:09 pm: | |
Wilson is not doing his job if he has to break the law to get a story. |
Ron Member Username: Ron
Post Number: 320 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 1:49 pm: | |
The "freedom of the press" guaranteed by the First Amendment protects a cornerstone of true democracy: the need for an informed voter. Only through an aggressive press will we ever be truly "informed." In that respect, the actions taken by Mr. Wilson may or may not be justified. However, the freedom of the press is also tempered by the free market, in that media organizations are always going to present the topics which garner the most viewers in order to increase their ratings so that they may demand more $$ for advertising time. In that respect, those of you who disagree with Mr. Wilson's means can exercise the greatest power that we, as viewers have: change the channel. That being said, I have to say personally that I believe that Mayor Kilpatrick is doing a much better job in his second term than in his first term. I voted for Mayor Kilpatrick when he initially ran, and for Mr. Hendrix in '05. However, I will be a returning voter for Mayor Kilpatrick, as I am impressed with his growth in the last two years. |
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou
Post Number: 1032 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 2:02 pm: | |
"those of you who disagree with Mr. Wilson's means can exercise the greatest power that we, as viewers have: change the channel." Which is what I often do. Most of these "shocking exposé’s" aren’t about much. But it is often funny watching people like Mr. Wilson here annoy the hell out of whoever they happen to be chasing . I don’t know why they run or get mad, just sit there and answer or act like your answering the questions calmly so they can take a ratings hit. It’s the confrontation most want to view, if there isn’t one than there is no point of watching. |
Steve_wilson_wxyztv Member Username: Steve_wilson_wxyztv
Post Number: 133 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 5:36 pm: | |
Alan55: As Ronald Reagan used to say: "Well, there you go again..." when you describe me as... "...a guy who shoves a microphone and camera in people's faces on the street and demands immediate answers; then, he dramatically presents his attack piece as "proof" of wrong-doing..." Maybe you've missed the point I've made here so many times. First, virtually NEVER is my first contact with an investigative subject simply running up to them in the street to ask a question. This is precisely why what you see me doing is not an "ambush interview." I call first, identify myself, ask the person or his spokesman for an interview in a dignified setting at a time and place of his/her choosing. Only when refused and their comments are important to a complete report (can you say: accountability?), only then do I find them and ask the question they so badly want to duck. No these are no "ambush interviews"...let's call them what they are: unscheduled accountability sessions. And next, just because they have no reasonable answer is not the basis for my report, and certainly not for any suggestion or mere implication of wrongdoing. No, their reaction is included in the same broadcast as clear evidence of their misdeeds. Remember that check I showed bearing the name Kilpatrick Civic Fund and signed by Christine Beatty? And remember the Navigator I found and showed stashed in a police garage when the mayor first said there was no such car??? And Mayor_sekou wonders" "I don’t know why they run or get mad..." Gee, what COULD it be? Surely not the fact they have no reasonable explanation as to why they collect money to benefit the city's children and then spend it on first class travel for their family and a rubdown at a California spa. Nah, THAT can't be it, eh? Listen, if those who run--especially the "professional" politicians--HAD a reasonable, believable response--much less PROOF the suspicions about them were wrong--you don't think they or someone around them are smart enough to sit down and just calmly lay it out??? Oh puh-LEEEEEZE...what parallel universe do you live in? (Message edited by Steve_wilson_wxyztv on June 17, 2007) (Message edited by Steve_wilson_wxyztv on June 17, 2007) |
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55
Post Number: 245 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 7:16 pm: | |
"these are no "ambush interviews"...let's call them what they are: unscheduled accountability sessions." MY, My !! Unscheduled accountability sessions !! Why, that is MUCH different from an "ambush interview" !! (Reminds me of the Watergate hearings. Nixon's henchmen weren't lying - they were telling "terminological inexactitudes".) "Listen, if those who run--especially the "professional" politicians--HAD a reasonable, believable response--much less PROOF the suspicions about them were wrong--you don't think they or someone around them are smart enough to sit down and just calmly lay it out??? Oh puh-LEEEEEZE...what parallel universe do you live in?" I guess, Wilson, the universe of logic. I think that that sort of show-and-tell situation occurs ALL THE TIME. I think officials, rather than being pestered by you, reluctantly sit down and show you proof that they really have done nothing wrong. Upon which, you turn to your cameraman and say, "Ho Hum, no story here - turn the camera off, this was a dead end; this non-story will never see the light of day." This no doubt happens 15 times for every one time a politician refuses to talk to you. And, logically, I think there are many public figures who have already been confronted by you who say to themselves, "I'm not going to waste any more time on that one-man National Enquirer" and who just refuse to pander to your unreasonable demands. In summation, the universe I live in doesn't need the likes of the New York Post, Jerry Springer, or you. |
Steve_wilson_wxyztv Member Username: Steve_wilson_wxyztv
Post Number: 134 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 7:51 pm: | |
Okay Alan-whoever-you-are. Try a little logic with this: An ambush is when somebody you don't know confronts you entirely unexpectedly for a purpose you don't understand. Now, when a reporter calls, explains what he wants to talk about, you refuse and then, sometime somewhere he walks up to you, surely YOU'RE bright enough to understand who he is and what he wants. That's no ambush, Genius! As for your thought there are 15x more "oops, no story here" interviews than those that air, you don't know what you're talking about. By the time most good investigative reporters seek an interview, hours of research, discussion with others and/or review of documents certainly seem to be "the goods," and, like a good lawyer in court, know the questions AND the honest answers. Of course I enter every interview (scheduled and otherwise) with an open mind and there certainly have been times when I've been persuaded we're barking up the wrong tree which can happen for a variety of reasons but 15:1? Hardly. It's not even 1:15. And as for politicians who don't wish to waste their time with unreasonable demands of answering simple, basic questions, your argument might hold a little water if the demands to explain themselves and official actions actually WERE unreasonable or my reporting was found to be frequently erroneous. Can you name one such instance? The mayor can't. Finally, in your universe that doesn't need the likes of me, may I be the first to offer you this advice if your mind is so closed to the possibility that I'm doing exactly what I should be doing: simply change the channel. I mean, I hate to lose a viewer but in your case, your blindness seems to be exceeded only by your animosity and dislike of me personally--and have we ever even met? I didn't think so. |
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 4274 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 7:56 pm: | |
Steve....smells like BULLSHIT to me... And this is one of many reasons I don't watch WXYZ for my news becuase if you leave it all to them then Detroit will be hell on earth, where the nigra's don't know how to take care of a major metropolitan city nor deal with each other... Yellow journalism at it's finest... |
Danny Member Username: Danny
Post Number: 6066 Registered: 02-2004
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 8:09 pm: | |
Glad that you can join the forum Steve_wilson_wxyztv. Keep up the good work exposing the truth behind the lies. |
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man
Post Number: 441 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 8:11 pm: | |
The trip was in August...the report was the following May. If it isn't tabloid journalism, why did it take nine months to get air time? Wasn't the report ready for fall sweeps? |
Steve_wilson_wxyztv Member Username: Steve_wilson_wxyztv
Post Number: 135 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 8:20 pm: | |
We air reports as soon as we are comfortable we have sufficiently documented the facts. How long was Carlita driving the Navigator before we broke that story--in a non-sweeps period, by the way. Jimmy Hoffa disappeared in 1975. If I found out what really happened tomorrow and put it on the air, this would be "yellow journalism" in your view? Or do you suspect we've already got the whole story but we're just holding that interview until the next sweeps when we've got nothing better? As I said before--puh-leeeeze. |
Ravine Member Username: Ravine
Post Number: 1003 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 8:40 pm: | |
Since I don't have all the facts in this case, I have elected to break from DY tradition by holding off on forming an opinion about it until those facts become available. However, I really don't particularly give a damn about this issue, so I will not be bothering to attempt to gather those facts. What I do want to say is that, regardless of how one may feel about Mr. Wilson, this specific issue, or his tactics in general, I think his willingness to show up, here, and personally confront us and the matter at hand, at some considerable length, is admirable and warrants some respect. This forum, and the opinions that we enter, here, are not that goddamned important, you know. He could have just sat back and ignored this thread, giving us adequate space in which to continue being the judgmental, haughty, know-it-all pricks that we are. Most of us enjoy total anonymity, inside this forum. His posts on this thread constitute a public statement from a publicly known person, which is a horse of a radically different color. So, instead of snapping off weaselly little jabs, which any smart-ass shithead can do, show this guy some respect for showing up and answering his accusers. |
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55
Post Number: 246 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 8:47 pm: | |
Wow!! Temper, temper, Stevie !! I can only imagine, Wilson, that the approach you use on your "unscheduled accountability sessions" are every bit as abusive and insulting as the comments you have made to me. As to "simply change the channel", as you can see from the different comments above, there are many people who are doing just that - including myself; your are almost a walking advertizement for the WDIV channel 4 newscast. "Try a little logic with this: An ambush is when somebody you don't know confronts you entirely unexpectedly for a purpose you don't understand. Now, when a reporter calls, explains what he wants to talk about, you refuse and then, sometime somewhere he walks up to you, surely YOU'RE bright enough to understand who he is and what he wants. That's no ambush, Genius!" Actually, that's exactly what it is. First, we have only your (somewhat questionable) word that you actually contact these people before you accost them on the street. Secondly, despite your high opinion of yourself, no one owes you an interview (which, I suspect, if you do actually attempt to contact them in their office, is every bit as immediate, peremptory and demanding as your jump-out-of-the-shrubbery interviews). "And as for politicians who don't wish to waste their time with unreasonable demands of answering simple, basic questions, your argument might hold a little water if the demands to explain themselves and official actions actually WERE unreasonable or my reporting was found to be frequently erroneous. Can you name one such instance? The mayor can't". - And you're insulting MY intelligence ?!! Let's go slowly. Of course I can't name one instance, Edward R. Murrow, because those dozens of times are buried in your filing cabinet (or your film archive) never to see the light of day. In my previous comment, I compared you to Jerry Springer. That's not correct. In reflection, Springer is better than you. Yes, he is a sleaze merchant also, but at least he admits it. |
Gplimpton Member Username: Gplimpton
Post Number: 28 Registered: 05-2007
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 9:06 pm: | |
Alan...did you use to deliver Steve's newspaper, and he forgot to tip you around Christmas? Did he date your wife in high school? Did he beat you out for a reporting job in Iowa in 1972? What are you talking about, dude? You've clearly got it out for him! How has the man been "abusive" to you? Is your latest post the result of a long, drunken evening in your basement? Because it doesn't make any sense! Seriously...get a life. You're getting burned... |
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou
Post Number: 1037 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 9:14 pm: | |
Just change the channel people. |
Steve_wilson_wxyztv Member Username: Steve_wilson_wxyztv
Post Number: 136 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 9:20 pm: | |
Gplimpton...here's what it is.: Calling me "Stevie," then "Wilson," coupled with certain other cadence and phrases I've heard from him before (such as: "Let's go slowly...") pretty much confirms to me that Alan55 is actually Kilpatrick news secretary Matt Allen. Of course he'll deny it but I'd bet a shiny new Channel 7 mug on it. It's him! Come on, Matt. Muster the courage to come out of the shadows and take a bow here. We could even have a little debate if you like. |
Ravine Member Username: Ravine
Post Number: 1004 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 9:29 pm: | |
No, no, hell no. I think the more important issue, here, is how we at DY sit at our computers, casually tossing around judgments, condemnations, and all manner of shit-talk about everybody, including Kwame Kilpatrick, Steve Wilson, and everyone in between, safe in our anonymity and comfortable in knowing that we are not publicly accountable for backing up any of the fucking irresponsible horseshit that we dish out. |
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55
Post Number: 247 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 9:31 pm: | |
Wilson, obviously, your style of reporting has alienated many, many people. I doubt if you can ever know how many thousands of people your reporting style has turned off (both here, and in Florida). No, I am not in the City Administration, or any administration. I am just one person disgusted by the video circuses that pass for television news these days. As for you, Gplimpton, 1. Re-read the Wilson's posts, carefully - you will answer your own question about the abusive part. 2. You don't like my posts? Don't read 'em. That way, you'll get a life also. |
Ron Member Username: Ron
Post Number: 321 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 9:44 pm: | |
I, for one, would like to second Ravine's statement about being respectful of the fact that Mr. Wilson is on here using his real name and publicly defending his actions. Additionally, it is not often enough that we, as direct consumers of the press, have the opportunity for individual, one-on-one contact with a member of the popular media. We should be taking this time to express our opinion on the stories he has presented (as we are clearly doing now), as well as express our interest in the types of stories we would like to see in the future. By sharing our preferences with Mr. Wilson, (instead of just attacking him for what we may see as his past transgressions), we may have the opportunity to positively contribute to the coverage of the press in our little neck of the woods. To that end, I would like to address Mr. Wilson: Mr. Wilson, I sincerely and wholeheartedly appreciate, and support, your efforts to keep our elected leaders honest. The Navigator story was certainly timely, and I think exposed many of us to the, at-least-perceived, "extravagances" of our first-term Mayor. However, Mr. Kilpatrick went on to beat his political opponent in the election. Therefore, we should be supportive of his efforts to improve our city and region. Provided the history of Detroit, particularly with respect to our relationship with our suburban neighbors, we often must present a dignified and unified front. You know as well as I, that perception is often more important than reality in politics and social relations. The popular media possesses both a great responsibility, and a great power. You have the opportunity to "shape" public opinion, and could do so by covering some of the many positive things that Mayor Kilpatrick has accomplished. And I ask that you understand that I am not a Kilpatrick apologist, as many of my prior posts will reveal. In short, that is the type of story I would like to see covered, as the positive progress of our city has a far more direct, and beneficial, impact on my daily life than the Mayor's vacations. (.....stepping off my pulpit now) |
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 4279 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 10:17 pm: | |
Say that...say that Ron... |
Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248
Post Number: 650 Registered: 10-2006
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 10:49 pm: | |
I will agree with the previous posters that we should acknowledge to courage of Steve Wilson to defend himself in person. That being said: Steve, The reason why you are being judged so harshly is because of the low level of respect many people have for your shamelessly brash, self-promoting, brand of yellow journalism. Please do not expect us to believe that it is necessary to use these type of tactics to "get the truth". Most of us expect reporters to dig for the truth. Most of us also expect you to be civil, professional and fair. There is a way to expose corruption, unethical practices, or just plain hold our leaders to a higher standard of behavior without being crass, rude or obnoxious. While I understand that it may be difficult to change your reporting style due to employment concerns, understand that those who enjoy gossip will also enjoy gossiping about you. |
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 4284 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 10:58 pm: | |
*Standing Ovation for Yvette* |
Jelk Member Username: Jelk
Post Number: 4442 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 11:24 pm: | |
quote:All the Steve-haters here are just the same old, tired posters who only vaguely remember some of the great work he's done, but object to his "in your face" style. Deal with it, it gets results. That's a massive rationalization for Jacobin journalism. Has the Comité de salut public taken over the Fourth Estate? |
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 4286 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 11:26 pm: | |
Hey steve how is the story coming along for insurance redlining you told us you were going to look into last year? |
Gplimpton Member Username: Gplimpton
Post Number: 30 Registered: 05-2007
| Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 11:30 pm: | |
Just because someone "says" his journalism is "self-promoting," and "brash" doesn't make it so. The good thing about Wilson's stories is that when he says something, he backs it up with facts! Where are yours? |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 4570 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 12:13 am: | |
Ravine, I have to agree with you on this one. Anonymous folks on this forum can and often do say anything they want, and be as rude as they want. Hell I bet if Mike Ilitch came on here with his real name to defend himself, he'd get as bad a reception as Steve. When Michigan Building owner Anthony Pieroni posted here a couple of times, I remembers some folks getting rude with him as well. Funny how some folks are so brash behind a keyboard, but are rather timid in person. I noticed this with one or two people at the Forum Picnic. |
Steve_wilson_wxyztv Member Username: Steve_wilson_wxyztv
Post Number: 137 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 8:48 am: | |
Ron, thanks for the thoughtful post. Yours (and others like it) are the very reason I'm here. I do agree with some posters that the so-called mainstream media is loathe to much accountability itself, and this (and similar venues) are excellent places for me to get a perspective I might not otherwise hear in my office or on the street. We have a large reporting staff at Channel 7, backed by scores of behind-the-scenes pros. Bleive it or don't, most of them are not there merely to collect a paycheck. They care about this community and the people who live here. Day in and day out we produce and air reports about new housing in the city, new business in the city, a plan to fix this or correct that. You've seen those stories many times, reported by Val Clark, or Mary Conway, or Cheryl Chodun and others. MY job is a little different. And because I concentrate ONLY on investigative, I can see how you might get the idea my topics have only a negative impact on a place or issue unless you look at the station's coverage as a whole. Also, I think investigative reports can and do bring about positive change, even if it's created from shaming those doing wrong. I don't generally talk about stories in production but I'm going to make an exception here...the insurance situation in Detroit is a story now in production--and thanks to Detroit_stylin for reminding me (repeatedly) that its something we should be doing. If any of you here have specific information we should consider in what we plan to be a thorough investigation, please contact me directly emailto:wilson@wxyz.com Finally, Yvette, still accuses me of: "shamelessly brash, self-promoting, brand of yellow journalism. Please do not expect us to believe that it is necessary to use these type of tactics to 'get the truth'." I'm not averse to a different approach you might suggest if it could be more effective but in 35 years I've learned sometimes it takes a little abrasive to get at a very stubborn stain--like using Ajax on that blueberry stain in the sink. It's not the first approach, I assure you, but when you have someone like our current mayor, its sometimes the only one that will work. I try hard never to be rude or disrespectful. That's why you always hear me refer to him as "Sir" or "Mr. Mayor" no matter how he is responding. Ray Sayah did a wonderful job of keeping his cool when Kilpatrick ripped away and then tossed Rays mic the other day. Anyway, my point is please don't confuse persistence and insistence on a response as rudeness or disrespect. Sometimes it's what must be done to put a question to an official who has an obligation--not a choice--to answer to people he/she serves in public life. Yvette, please tell me: When we have an issue that the mayor (or official) should respond to, when we call and are told the mayor won't discuss it, what would YOU have us do? Going on the air and saying "the mayor refused to respond" not only allows him to escape direct responsibility for the issue but provides no insight into what his answer might be. Again, that approach--IMHO--is contrary to the role of a journalist. We're not here to cheerlead for his programs when he wants to boast, then go away when there's a shortcoming to report and he doesn't want to respond. So...what would YOU have us do? (Message edited by Steve_wilson_wxyztv on June 18, 2007) (Message edited by Steve_wilson_wxyztv on June 18, 2007) |
Goat Member Username: Goat
Post Number: 9488 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 9:10 am: | |
I like the "in your face" style and approach of reporters today. In today's politics you have to either get in their face or you do not get any info at all. If gov'ts didn't keep the electorate in the dark most of the time (let us not mention the many backroom deals and the padding of future endeavors) then reporters like Steve Wilson wouldn't have to be so "brash". It is the politicians and the general public that have become less professional, the reporters are just having to follow suit to get the damn story. It is better to have some info regardless of how it is achieved than no info at all. Keep those politicians in line Steve, we all benefit from it. |
Detroitrulez Member Username: Detroitrulez
Post Number: 287 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 10:11 am: | |
You keep at it Stevie! Detroitrulez is on your side! Mr. Scrubbing Bubbles hisself...attacking with vim and vigor the blueberry stain that is Kilpatrick, Inc. besides, everyone knows you need to pour all your $$$ into your Florida residence in the event you get hit with a huge libel/slander judgment and need to file chapter 7, thereby keeping the home. |
Qdaddy77 Member Username: Qdaddy77
Post Number: 54 Registered: 05-2007
| Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 10:38 am: | |
What I really find surprising is that fact that the main issue of the story, $9,000 being spent from a civic fund was never reported by the Non-rofit on their IRS forms! Why is everyone so quick to forget and go after Steve? Why does the Mayor always seem to slip away and deflect all press? Steve, back after the Navigitor situation, the Mayor stated he was going to have weekly meetings with the area press to keep and "open dialouge" going. Did this ever come to be? I havent heard of anything coming from them if they have? Or was it something said for good press and then dropped by the wayside when no one was looking? |
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell
Post Number: 3891 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 10:52 am: | |
I recently had the opportunity to meet Steve, when we were both panelists [different panels] at a recent Society of Professional Journalists conference at RenCen. The first thing I did was, like Ron above, compliment him for openly coming on this forum, taking the slings and arrows and explaining is actions in a manner far more civil than those lobbing bombs at him. There are numerous members of the media who both participate and lurk on this forum anonymously [and we respect and make every effort to guard their choice]. That said, I find Steve's choice to be out in the open refreshing and commendable. So, thanks again Steve, your posts and rebuttals have shed a lot of light on journalism and the issue at hand. I think there has been a rush to judgment on Steve's recent investigative tactics, an internet commonplace. Allegations and a buck still buys nothing more than a cheap cup of STFU. If there ever is any truth to them, there will be plenty of time to continue the lynching after a court of law issues judgment. If there isn't, will the accusers up in here be just as vocal about the other camp creating a paper tiger and trying to 'shoot the messenger'? And, yes, I asked Steve about the insurance redlining promise too. He assured me that it was in progress and I am pleased to hear that it is progressing. IMO, this is one of the biggest issues hindering the recovery of Detroit and all of our older cities. Crack that rotten egg wide open Steve and you will be in Pulitzer territory. |
Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248
Post Number: 653 Registered: 10-2006
| Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 2:17 pm: | |
In my travels to other cities, when the media goes after a politician, its on major issues - they are actually committing felonies. Its not this trivial stuff like what car he drives, what vacation he takes, or where his wife parks. This type of gossip reporting is just trash and garbage. I don't think anyone here believes that the Mayor is a boy scout. There is no such thing as a perfect politician. The mayor does what just about every other politician in this country does - which isn't great - but he seems to be the only one (besides Paris Hilton) selling newspapers for such stupid, inconsequential stuff. This isn't Steve's fault, but it is the fault of the media in general. There are so many more important things that needs to be addressed. If Steve ever did an "in-depth, pitbull pursuit" investigation piece that would actually HELP the city instead of contributing to the same-old, negative "Us vs. Them" bashing, I will be the very first one to swallow my pride, stand up and applaud him. Once again, Mr. Wilson, my disparaging viewpoints are not on you personally. You may be very sincere in your efforts as a human being - on that aspect, I will not pass judgment. |
Steve_wilson_wxyztv Member Username: Steve_wilson_wxyztv
Post Number: 138 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 5:32 pm: | |
Yvette writes: "...my disparaging viewpoints are not on you personally. You may be very sincere in your efforts as a human being - on that aspect, I will not pass judgment." Thank you for that. Really. I try to do the right thing and you might be surprised that we agree more than we disagree on the state of the mainstream media these days (except, of course, MY own part in it). You should also know I am great fun at parties and picnics, should anyone here wish to invite me. <grin> |
Ramcharger Member Username: Ramcharger
Post Number: 327 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 5:46 pm: | |
quote:they are actually committing felonies. Its not this trivial stuff like what car he drives, what vacation he takes When the car he or his wife drives is paid for with tax dollars and the vacation he and his family takes is paid for with money collected under the guise of a children’s charity and which was unreported to the IRS, are we sure felonies have not been committed? |
Raggedclaws Member Username: Raggedclaws
Post Number: 39 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 6:09 pm: | |
So Yvette...you don't mind if your politicians are selectively honest ? I like mine to be honest ALL OF THE TIME. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link... |
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity
Post Number: 713 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 6:18 pm: | |
With all due respect Yvette (post 650), I think you are naive. Reporters, if they're very good at what they do, will use any means necessary to get at the facts of a story. That includes misrepresenting oneself over the phone to get info, not that's that what Steve did. Cops are permitted to misrepresent anything they want to when questioning a suspect; the Su. Ct. has said it's OK to lie or do anything else short of threatening, or actually committing, bodily harm. Trickery and deceit are the norm. And society is better off for it. And, the City rarely plays by the rules either. Try filing a FOIA request. I've done it many times and the City stonewalls at every step of the way, casually disregarding the statutory mandates. I even sued the City once for failing to properly respond to a FOIA request and the judge gave the City 24 hours to produce the requested docs or be cited for contempt. They produced them. Who has the time and money to go that far? Not many. And the City knows it. (There's a discussion on another thread re: the JLA lease w/ Ilitch. All one has to do is file a FOIA request to get the lease and every other document/letter etc in the file. Try it. See how long it takes to get the info. If I did it, I would file a lawsuit the microsecond after the deadline for the City to deliver it if the info wasn't delivered. You can't let them jerk you around.) When it comes to getting a story of civic graft and corruption, ANYTHING GOES. |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 4583 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 6:25 pm: | |
Steve, If you encounter a slow news week, I have an interesting story for you, something that hits close to home: About 5 years ago I was driving along Moran road (Grosse Pointe Farms) coming up to Lakeshore Dr. There are high berms along both sides of Moran, and seeing pedestrian traffic (cyclists, joggers, etc.) was next to impossible. I stopped at the stop sign, and then slowly proceeded forward to see around the berms for oncoming traffic... when BAMM!! A bicyclist ended up on my windshield. I panicked and hit the gas, which mercifully sent the biker off my windshield into the grassy medium of Lakeshore. The girl riding the bike only had a few minor bruises, but I was in shock. She told the officer that I had stopped (but could not see her from my sedan). So I didn't get a ticket (although one came in the mail later). But what infuriated me was another pedestrian yelling at the officer that that was the 2nd injury in the last 5 days at that intersection, and that the city needed to do something about the blind spot. Needless to say I went to court, but didn't win. It took 2 additional years, and lord knows how many other injuries before the city made the Grosse Pointe Academy lower their berm. I also nearly got into an accident (twice) at Mack Ave. & Ashley (in front of Mr. C's party store), again in Grosse Pointe Farms... because they have the median so full of overgrown bushes & trees, that you have to literally be into oncoming traffic before you can see around the blind spots. It seems that the Grosse Pointes are putting pretty landscaping ahead of public safety. Just have one of your staff check out the number of accidents that happened at Moran & Lakeshore to see what I'm talking about. It's scandalous!!! |
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100
Post Number: 1138 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 6:32 pm: | |
I second Gistok's story about not being able to see around landscaping. It's not fun trying to rollerblade down Lakeshore and try and make sure not to get hit when crossing Moran. It is still too high for people to see over when coming down the sidewalk. |
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55
Post Number: 249 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 6:42 pm: | |
"Trickery and deceit are the norm. And society is better off for it." No, no, no. (I am amazed that you would say something this naive.) We are never better off with trickery and deceit, whether committed by a politician, or a reporter. Dishonesty is never the norm - that is why we have a rule of law, and societal standards. Does dishonesty occur often? Yes. Do the wrong-doers get away with it? Sadly, yes. Fortunately, wrong-doers are caught often enough to at least make others think twice about doing it. "When it comes to getting a story of civic graft and corruption, ANYTHING GOES." Anything? You mean like secretly breaking into a home (actually, let's call it YOUR home)and searching thru private papers and files, hoping to find some inkling of illegality? How about the police arbitrarily putting up a roadblock on a busy highway and searching EVERY car, hoping to find an illegal weapon, drugs, or an unreturned library book? How about calling up a hotel and trying to get copies of someone else's (say, YOUR) bills? All of the above probably have been done at one time or other; I only hope that, when they happen in the future, that they happen to people who feel that this type of activity is acceptable. |
Ravine Member Username: Ravine
Post Number: 1010 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 8:23 pm: | |
It is clear, right there in 3rdworldcity's sentence, that the "anything goes" applies to the investigation of civic graft and corruption. Your rebuttal is hereby disqualified. |
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55
Post Number: 253 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 8:32 pm: | |
Actually, his third sentence / paragraph spoke of "cops using trickery and deceit". In fact, he said: "Trickery and deceit are the norm. And society is better off for it." Regardless of whether it applies to civic graft and corruption (as you incorrectly interpreted) or to a wider use, it is still immoral, unethical, and in most cases, illegal. |
Ravine Member Username: Ravine
Post Number: 1014 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 8:48 pm: | |
Jesus Christ. Why is this so difficult? The SENTENCE, dammit, the SENTENCE. I did not interpret the sentence incorrectly. 0-2. You probably shouldn't swing anymore. |
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55
Post Number: 254 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 9:25 pm: | |
Read his whole post, Ravine - then you will understand. |
Angry_dad Member Username: Angry_dad
Post Number: 152 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 9:43 pm: | |
I get a kick out of this board. And especially the link to the should charges be brought poll. It seems that convictions in some people's minds are not a matter of proof or process of law but are instead a matter of social stature. I have to give SW credit. He's willing to at least post that he did nothing wrong. His name's here. For some odd reason, the people at the resort or anybody connected to the mayor's office aren't. Cripes there's enough crimes that really have scarred people, why mess with something that is just another chapter in an encyclopedia of incompetence. |
Jrvass Member Username: Jrvass
Post Number: 115 Registered: 01-2007
| Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 10:11 pm: | |
To Steve Wilson, I appreciate that you are here defending yourself. Mayor K. certainly isn't. I also heard your interview on WJR while driving to Lansing the other day, and it seemed a reasonable explanation. I only seem to see or hear about your reports when you are in a controversy with the mayor. Fine with me. Living in the Detroit area and working in Lansing I only catch bits of the 5am news. But I read the paper and KK is a chameleon, IMO. If Detroiters want Mayor Kilpatrick, they'll just keep voting him in. Graft, corruption, perks, theft, or whatever. All you can do is your job. Reporting on what is revealed/uncovered. And I, for one, appreciate it. James |
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 4288 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 10:55 pm: | |
So Steve, When can we expect the expose' on the insurance redlining and can we expect you to pursue this as doggedly as you have been pursuing allegations against the mayor? If you ask me insurance redlining is a far bigger problem affecting MANY people that live in the City of Detroit instead of parties at the Manoog or whether or not he took a trip with a fund that he helped set up... |
Steve_wilson_wxyztv Member Username: Steve_wilson_wxyztv
Post Number: 139 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, June 19, 2007 - 11:09 am: | |
3rdWorldCity...your experience with FOIA is exactly what I'd like to include in a piece I'm producing on THAT topic. Of course I have no idea who you are...could you contact me directly at mailto:wilson@wxyz.com? And while I agree there are lines beyond which is misconduct by a reporter--and again, for the record, I know where the line is and did NOT cross it--I note Alan55 (who denies he is the mayor's news secretary Matt Allen) writes: "How about the police arbitrarily putting up a roadblock on a busy highway and searching EVERY car..." You mean like those DWI checkpoints we report about all the time? Hmmm.... |
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap
Post Number: 849 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, June 19, 2007 - 11:49 am: | |
"And, the City rarely plays by the rules either. Try filing a FOIA request. I've done it many times and the City stonewalls at every step of the way, casually disregarding the statutory mandates." Amen. Just try to pry information out of the City Planning Department. And, the DPD brass never answer a phone call or letter - and that includes the Commanders at the SW District. I think the world of muckraking reporters. They have a long and storied history of making this country a better place in the long run - although they have never always been disdained by the people who are trying to stiff the hoi polloi, who they think are at best ignorant sheep. |
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge
Post Number: 191 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, June 19, 2007 - 5:16 pm: | |
Southwestmap, What information couldn't you get out of the Planning Dept.? I have always found them to be the most helpful of the city departments. DPD is another matter altogether - no chance at getting any data below the city level. Chicago is not scared of posting their crime data (www.chicagocrime.org) |
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55
Post Number: 260 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, June 19, 2007 - 8:18 pm: | |
""How about the police arbitrarily putting up a roadblock on a busy highway and searching EVERY car..." "You mean like those DWI checkpoints we report about all the time? Hmmm...." EXACTLY ... now you are starting to get it. Just because things are done "all the time", does not make them right, or ethical, whether it is the police doing arbitrary searches, or reporters trying to obtain information thru subterfuge. Obtaining information, whether it is personal records, or police evidence, "BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY", is wrong. |
Granmontrules Member Username: Granmontrules
Post Number: 97 Registered: 01-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, June 19, 2007 - 8:34 pm: | |
I just wish channel 7 would go away. It is the most negative of stations towards Detroit. When I am channeling surfing and land there I immediately switch if the news is on. |
Ffdfd Member Username: Ffdfd
Post Number: 100 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2007 - 8:51 am: | |
http://metrotimes.com/%5Cedito rial%5Cstory.asp?id=10646
quote:News Hits has been reading with interest a debate raging on the DetroitYes! forum regarding WXYZ-TV (Channel 7) investigative reporter Steve Wilson. Wilson is no stranger to controversy, but the report that Wilson may be hit with felony charges has his critics practically wetting their pants they're so excited.
quote:But he did get the story, and before anyone pops Champagne corks at the prospect of the messenger taking a hit, we should keep the question raised by Wilson's investigation front and center: Is the mayor using a nonprofit charity as his personal slush fund? |
Themax Member Username: Themax
Post Number: 693 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2007 - 9:41 am: | |
To Wilson's critics: How do you suggest that he get the hotel bills? Or isn't the money the mayor spends on his trips important? Detroit had a school board that were driven around in chauffeured limos for years. And what was the name of the woman legislator who hardly ever attended sessions? From what I read of a lot of his critics, it's just jealousy at the money he is making. Like he would have a lot more credibility if he was living in a cold water walk-up. The overall opinion I observe in Detroit is that the voters really don't mind being scammed by one of their own. You get the government you deserve. Making the reporter the center of attention instead of the story is a tried and true way to get rid of reporters that are annoying certain big people. Going undercover and using disguise to catch crooks and people bending ethical mores is not a new reporting method. Don't shoot the messenger or you may find you have no messengers. Then the citizens of Detroit can wonder cluelessly why the city is in such lousy shape--as a lot of them do right now. Since most of the leaders of Detroit are ministers, I assume they will replace investigative reporting with prayer. |
Mcp001 Member Username: Mcp001
Post Number: 2775 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2007 - 9:55 pm: | |
I guess that the supporters of the mayor and his family enjoy being used. |
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity
Post Number: 715 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 6:33 pm: | |
Alan55: Please do not call me naive until you learn to read and comprehend English. I was perfectly clear. You chastize me for pointing out that police officers (federal, state and local) are permitted to misrepresent anything they choose when interrogating a suspect. The ONLY thing they may not do is threaten or commit bodily harm. Lieing, trickery and deceit have been upheld by the Su. Ct. as perfectly permissable once Miranda rights have been read and a suspect agrees to continue talking, as many of them do. Criminals tend to be rather stupid and society is better off for having those tools to get to the truth of the matter. |
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55
Post Number: 272 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 8:36 pm: | |
3rd World, I not only read very well, I perfectly understood what you said. Perhaps instead of referring to you as naive, I should have referred to you as unprincipled and unethical. "Trickery and deceit are the norm. And society is better off for it." "Lieing, trickery and deceit have been upheld by the Su. Ct." THIS is your justification? Because the Supreme Court says it's OK? How about "extraordinary rendition"? This has been occurring with the full consent of our current administration - does that make it OK? How about secret wiretaps? That seems to be in fashion these days with both our administration and courts. Maybe your preference is for secret searches done in the dead of night. Maybe we can get those private CIA contractors to institute some of those swell Abu Ghraib techniques locally; maybe "society will be the better for it". Yes police are permitted to behave unethically by our Supreme Court (the same Court that elected Dubya, 5 - 4). I can only hope that you someday will be the recipient of this behavior and are convicted of a crime you didn't commit, because "society will be better off for it." I am ashamed for you. |
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity
Post Number: 716 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 9:37 pm: | |
Alan55: I have no problem w/ "unethical and unprincipled." Just not naive. You wish me to be convicted of a crime I didn't commit. Thanks, Mr. Ethical and Principled. But, who's talking about convicting people of crimes they didn't commit? I don't see anyone here doing that except you. (Are you sure you're a good reader? Are you sure you were reading my post when you apparently came up w/ that conclusion?) You have no qualifications to posture yourself as an ethicist. (Do you?) Or are you just naturally born holier than thou? It's touching that you're ashamed for me. Have a couple of stiff drinks and the shame will pass. Then, reflect on your own real or imagined shortcomings. |
Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248
Post Number: 669 Registered: 10-2006
| Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 10:38 pm: | |
Oooooh, a whole vacation! Wow, such corruption! Please! Compared to what the Bushes are doing with Halliburton, a lousy few days in the sun does not a scandal make. Give your buddies billions of dollars in oil contracts, then we can talk. |
321brian Member Username: 321brian
Post Number: 378 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 11:03 pm: | |
Worst argument ever.... "Well, so and so is doing this so who cares if someone else get away with something else." Maybe nobody should care about anything. That would solve things now wouldn't it? Bush sucks and Kwame isn't doing much either. What does one have to do with the other? |
Larryinflorida Member Username: Larryinflorida
Post Number: 830 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 12:27 am: | |
In the film "All the President's Men", Woodward and Bernstein used various forms of misrepresentation to get data to bag the Plumbers. And they were heroes, lol. Is it the size of a story or magnitude of consequence that is a threshold for such ambitious action? Maybe that's the question. |
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55
Post Number: 275 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 7:03 am: | |
3rd World, you seem awfully sensitive for someone who advocates "By any means necessary", whining about me wishing that you be convicted of a crime you didn't commit. What do you think happens to other people when police, the government, and reporters use these tactics to get information they want? They don't use them "so society is "better off", they use them because it is easier and quicker to justify the opinion they have already formed. You seem to be FINE with this being done with other people, but start whining if you are mentioned as a recipient. Well, Boo Hoo! The police and government don't give a damn about you as an individual, you are just another perpetrator who needs to be put away as quickly and cheaply as possible. If a few corners have to be cut in your conviction, if a cop has to do a bit of "testi-lying" on the witness stand, well, so what? You were guilty as hell anyway - "society is better off". So to answer your question, "But, who's talking about convicting people of crimes they didn't commit?" - YOU ARE. |
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity
Post Number: 718 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 12:25 pm: | |
OK, that proves it. You really CAN'T read and comprehend at the same time. And, wou're a bleeding heart, far left liberal who believes that the police and prosecutors are always wrong and the crooks have had traumatic childhoods and deserve a break. And, the U.S. Su. Ct, until it gets someone on it who you like (that will be scary), are pretty damn stupid, especially because they don't agree with you and whatever interpretations of the law and morality you happen to espouse. You, pal, must lead a VERY frustrating life, always being right while most of the rest of us are just plain wrong. Luckily for the rest of us you will remain out on the fringe somewhere howling at the moon. And, since you have a hard time reading English, I have NEVER advocated the conviction of innocent people and believe that rarely happens. You should find a little higher quality weed or whatever it is you're smoking. |
Gplimpton Member Username: Gplimpton
Post Number: 33 Registered: 05-2007
| Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 5:30 pm: | |
Who said "By any means necessary" except you? Until you can demonstrate he used methods OTHER than the kinds reporters use everyday...you look pretty foolish, (matt) alan! |
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55
Post Number: 280 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 6:42 pm: | |
Gplimpton, you are apparently not very perceptive - read 3rd World's quote to help you understand "by any means necessary" - "Cops are permitted to misrepresent anything they want to when questioning a suspect; the Su. Ct. has said it's OK to lie or do anything else short of threatening, or actually committing, bodily harm. Trickery and deceit are the norm. And society is better off for it." Now that you hopefully understand, you may return to your Steve Wilson ass-kissing. |
Gplimpton Member Username: Gplimpton
Post Number: 36 Registered: 05-2007
| Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 6:51 pm: | |
And again Alan, can you provide any proof that your arch enemy did anything LIKE THAT? How much is kwame paying u anyway....... |
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55
Post Number: 281 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 7:02 pm: | |
"And, since you have a hard time reading English, I have NEVER advocated the conviction of innocent people and believe that rarely happens." Well, I guess now you have to resort to lying and insults. I will print YOUR OWN WORDS one more time, hoping it sinks in: "Trickery and deceit are the norm. And society is better off for it." "Lieing, trickery and deceit have been upheld by the Su. Ct." Please tell this to the three Duke Lacrosse players, who damn near went to prison due to the LIES, TRICKERY, and DECEIT by prosecutor Mike Nifong. The ONLY reason they are not in jail is that their parents had the financial wherewithal to spend the MILLIONS of dollars required to hire first-rate attorneys, private investigators, media advisors, and forensic experts to unravel the case, and bring it public attention. I have no doubt that there are others not as wealthy as these parents, who Nifong railroaded thru trickery and deceit, and are serving lengthy jail terms in North Carolina. Is society better off for it? No. Now, if you cannot understand this, I can't help you (and probably no one else can explain it to you either.) Since you have resorted to silly-ass personal and political attacks, I don't want to waste anymore time on someone who has descended to 5th-grade name calling. |
Gplimpton Member Username: Gplimpton
Post Number: 38 Registered: 05-2007
| Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 7:06 pm: | |
HUH? They almost went to PRISON because Mike Nifong needed to win an election! Buddy, this isn't apples and oranges, it's apples and turkeys! Try again, maybe? |
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy
Post Number: 5496 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 7:10 pm: | |
Gplimpton, I think what Alan is referring to is the fact that innocent people came within half a step away from going to jail. All it took was some trickery & spin doctoring by a very aggressive person and those guys were gone. (Message edited by smogboy on June 22, 2007) |
Gplimpton Member Username: Gplimpton
Post Number: 39 Registered: 05-2007
| Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 7:19 pm: | |
I get what he's TRYING to say, but the comparison doesn't work because there's no similiarity between the two situations! |
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy
Post Number: 5499 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 7:28 pm: | |
Not meaning to paraphrase or speak for Alan, but I think the point that he was also trying to make is that if someone can come up with a very compelling case (whether it's Steve Wilson or an over zealous North Carolina DA can do with their access to media), innocent people can easily get railroaded. Who monitors the people doing the accusations? |
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55
Post Number: 283 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 8:34 pm: | |
Why should I try again? I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say you are intentionally acting obtuse. If you can't see, or refuse to see, the comparison on how lies, trickery and deceit very nearly sent innocent people to prison, and the statements referred to above, then I can't help you. |
Gplimpton Member Username: Gplimpton
Post Number: 40 Registered: 05-2007
| Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 8:40 pm: | |
Buddy, these cases are so far apart, it's laughable. You're Kwame's boy, I get it. Clearly, he can do no wrong in your book. |
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity
Post Number: 720 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 11:14 pm: | |
Tell us the truth, A 55. You're a WSU freshman Sociology major, right? The Duke case had no illegal police involvement; quite the contrary. The DA was the one who lied -- to the court and the press, not the alleged perps. Your apparent belief that the Duke case is analogous to the situations I wrote about which have been the topic of the last few posts, is illogical at best and just plain nonsense at worse. Crooks are often very lacking in intelligence and so are some prosecutors as well. And immature ......... Oh well, let's just let this off-topic diversion drop now, OK? |
Granmontrules Member Username: Granmontrules
Post Number: 103 Registered: 01-2007
| Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 12:13 am: | |
Gplimpton - Why do you hate the mayor so much? Your hatred from the suburbs comes right down here into Detroit. Take your hatred back to Shithole Suburbville where you live and keep it there. |
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity
Post Number: 721 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 10:23 am: | |
Granmontrules: I can't respond for Gplimpton, but I doubt that KKs critics "hate" him. I'm also critical of many of his decisions and some of his conduct but I don't hate him. Remember the child who cried out that "the emporer has no clothes?" Do you think he hated the guy just because he shouted out the truth? (Message edited by 3rdworldcity on June 23, 2007) |
Hornist9 Member Username: Hornist9
Post Number: 36 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 1:17 pm: | |
Mr. Wilson, I only wish that you would have been around in the area when old King Coleslaw was large and in charge. In my opinion he was one of the main reasons why the City of Detroit has (to use TV slang) jumped the shark! By your actions, you do keep a lid on these guys who are trying to keep as Mel Brooks said in Blazing Saddles "our phoney baloney jobs". I am a city commissioner in the City of Warren and even though the City Council fights like cats and dogs, they do things in a fiscally correct way. There are some on council that have outlived their usefulness, and thank goodness for term limits. A certain person who sends the idea that he's the communities biggest friend just isn't! Hopefully he won't win the mayor's office. He sure as hell won't get my one little vote! I understand that devious things have to be done to get results. It is horrible that as broke as the City of Detroit and the State are, that these rascals in office can spend the taxpayers money as if it was water with no accountability to those that they serve. |
Fasteddie Member Username: Fasteddie
Post Number: 5 Registered: 05-2007
| Posted on Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 8:35 pm: | |
Steve, Thanks for taking the time to reply. As usual, Kwame is nowhere to be found. |
Gplimpton Member Username: Gplimpton
Post Number: 42 Registered: 05-2007
| Posted on Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 8:47 pm: | |
hate him? nobody wants him to fail. if detroit can come back, everyone will be happy. he just needs to make better choices. |
Granmontrules Member Username: Granmontrules
Post Number: 107 Registered: 01-2007
| Posted on Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 10:58 pm: | |
Well I disagree as someone who actually lives in the City - I and most of my friends are very happy with where things are going. Yes, there is more that needs to happen. However, not a one of us is sitting around bitching about "Kwame" not doing anything. If anything we see the mayor doing things - we just want to see more from other citizens! More of US Detroiters need to do more for our City. |
Cybersanford Member Username: Cybersanford
Post Number: 9 Registered: 06-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 12:31 pm: | |
I love Kwame, he is the greatest waste of money ever elected to the fair city of Detroit! Colman was a crook, Kwame is a GanSta! Top that ya'll! |
Danny Member Username: Danny
Post Number: 6114 Registered: 02-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 2:22 pm: | |
Cybersanford, I don't a leader who is a member of the T.H.U.G. Mafia running Detroit, especially KING KWAME. |
Jfre66_77 Member Username: Jfre66_77
Post Number: 72 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 7:38 am: | |
Looks like Steve is not going to be in trouble with the law. http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070628/M ETRO/706280441 So back to the real story - KK spending money donated to a charity to take his family on a spa vacation. (Message edited by Jfre66_77 on June 28, 2007) |
Lafayette Member Username: Lafayette
Post Number: 20 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 8:56 am: | |
It's about ratings, kids, that's it. Because of that, your local media believes the ends DO justify the means, even if the ends mean dragging the already tarnished image of journalism further into the mud. They're doing it under the guise of "serving the public" but you've been duped, and you're tuning in and supporting him with Pavlovian predictability while ABC is laughing all the way to bank. That methodology to get a story violates one of the basic tenets of real journalism, but people want to be entertained and watch gotcha! a lot more than defend the real role of journalism as the Fourth Estate. True, much of journalism today is a sad, toothless old dog taking dictation from lying public officials. But this style of "journalism" is the wrong answer to the problem and only adds to the broader problems created by today's timid, profit-driven journalism. And it will continue as long as you show an interest in Steve Wilson's/ABC's tactics. You're getting a short-term thrill watching the local media yet again go after Detroit's mayor (for a hotel bill - can you imagine if the media put that amount of energy into hounding officials responsible for this country's real problems? But you wouldn't tune in for that, so it won't happen) and teaching the Nielson-heads to keep doing this. Enjoy your bread and circus while the real Rome burns. |
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man
Post Number: 444 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 9:01 am: | |
I don't recall seeing any type of follow up or mention of this issue on Channel 7. It must be so important that it will have to wait until the next sweeps period. |
Lafayette Member Username: Lafayette
Post Number: 21 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 9:06 am: | |
You're catching on, Wash_man. Smart viewer. You should get into local TV journalism! You've got the basics down. |
Detrola Member Username: Detrola
Post Number: 50 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 9:11 am: | |
This thread represents all that is wrong with detroit. We down play the incredible murder rate in the city by pointing to the relative handful of murders outside the city. "Hey, give the "D" a break. Look at Steven Grant, see, murders happen everywhere". The mayor continues to disassociate his actions from the critical financial state of the city. Steve Wilson used some sketchy tactics to hold a mirror up to the mayor and members of C.C. He should he held accountable. But in typical detroit fashion, the bigger issue will be ignored. "Steve Wilson lives in Florida...he's just as bad as the mayor..." etc, etc, etc. We allow ourselves to be distracted from the true issues that plague our city. We deflect criticism by saying our problems exist everywhere. Our neighborhoods are suffering. Rec centers close. Neighborhood city halls get shuttered, Yet, we look past these little truths. We look through the the bars on our windows at the promise of a revived downtown. We dodge the crater like pot holes on Fort street to celebrate the corporate sponsored, electronic music fest, riverwalk fest, fireworks, cityfest etc. We marvel at how much nicer downtown is as we drive home past the crack whores on Michigan ave. But then again, I've seen bars on windows in Melvindale. Redford has pot holes and some of their roads aren't ever paved. Ferndale surely has some crack whores. These issues exist everywhere. On second thought, Steve Wilson is an overpaid muckraking, law breaking, yellow journalist. He doesn't even live in detroit. He has some nerve attacking the mayor. The next time I see a Steve Wilson investigation I will change the channel. That is what we do in detroit when confronted with the truth, We change the channel. (Message edited by detrola on June 28, 2007) |
Jfre66_77 Member Username: Jfre66_77
Post Number: 73 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 12:27 pm: | |
So apparently journalists must be held to a much higher standard of scrutiny and accountability than our elected officials. |
Lafayette Member Username: Lafayette
Post Number: 22 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 1:47 pm: | |
Well, I guess not, Jfre66_77. You're right, let's continue the race to the bottom and just have anything goes because, well, those public officials are scum, so journalists should follow suit by defiling decades of basic journalistic standards that, incredibly, produced REAL watchdog journalism and exposed horrible wrongdoing. Let's really do it right and give you what you really want in the name of creating the charade of fighting city hall using these tactics. I hear in the next report he's going to burst into Kilpatrick's bedroom in the middle of the night with a live camera "because the public has a right to know" and when Kilpatrick protests, he'll shove a mic in his face and repeatedly scream at him "What do you have to hide, Mr. Mayor? Why won't you answer my questions? Why are you hiding under the covers? Why won't you meet with me right now? The taxpayers deserve answers!" Journalists using just the minimum, time-tested basic standards (not even high standards) of journalism, without the media circus of predatory self-righteousness (driven by viewers like you), have the ability to tear down entire governments, if journalists, and their editors/viewers/readers want them to. But it just ain't sexy enough these days for the local TV viewing public. And for those of you who insist this is the way to root out corruption in public office, fact is that up until recently, when journalists weren't using these tactics, we actually had MORE watchdog journalism that did a better job at exposing wrongdoing without the bread and circus tactics. |
Gplimpton Member Username: Gplimpton
Post Number: 45 Registered: 05-2007
| Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 2:15 pm: | |
Hi Lafayette, Your entire post seems to have been undone. http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070628/M ETRO/706280441 |
Lafayette Member Username: Lafayette
Post Number: 23 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 3:24 pm: | |
Not so. I was talking about journalistic ethics. Many things reporters do can be unethical, but they're not necessarily illegal. This just means a judge thinks what he did was not illegal. The fact that he's cleared legally doesn't mean he didn't violate a basic tenet of journalism, which gets back to my original points. |
Jfre66_77 Member Username: Jfre66_77
Post Number: 74 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 3:37 pm: | |
Unless he's using or mis-appropriating money from a charity to finance activities in his bedroom, or there is some activity going on that is breaking the law, I could care less what is going on there. Trying to make the comparison between that, and between him misusing money from a charity is just trying to avoid the real topic. I'm not an advocate of sensationalist journalism, but sometimes things need to be exposed. If I use the logic in your argument, then any sexual offender who has been nailed in an NBC Dateline chatroom sting, and has gone to a house with the intent of providing alcohol to, and having sex with a 12 year old kid has been treated unfairly, since this is "sensationalism" designed to get ratings? And Chris Hanson is a hack journalist for exposing us to these activities? I believe that the constant deluge of news and information that we get these days tends to desensitize us to an alarming degree, but that doesn't mean we should choose to ignore the things that are going on, just because we don't like the person that is delivering the message. When I was very young and would watch the news and hear about a murder, it would frighten me. In today's newscasts, the murder stories are announced almost like it's the sports segment. (Message edited by Jfre66_77 on June 28, 2007) |
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity
Post Number: 744 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 4:57 pm: | |
Detrola: Kill the messenger, right? Lafayette: Rarely have I seen on this forum such specious reasoning, illogical conclusions or unsupported allegations ("...when journalists weren't using these tactics, we actually had more watchdog journalism...") than in your last two posts. And, please God, spare of from the amateur ethicists on this forum. Did you people ever think that scamming a charity for a few grand may be just the tip of the iceberg? |
Gplimpton Member Username: Gplimpton
Post Number: 46 Registered: 05-2007
| Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 5:00 pm: | |
Lafayette, How do you know what Wilson did? |
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy
Post Number: 5542 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 5:58 pm: | |
3rdworldcity, I agree with your assumption that the charity skim might just be the tip of the Kwame iceberg but unless KK is caught redhanded doing something illegal- are we trying and convicting him here as well? Unless we have solid evidence gathered, I'm not so sure we're not on that slippery slope of being judge & jury without due process either. |
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy
Post Number: 5543 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 6:02 pm: | |
I'm starting to believe that we all agree that there needs to be watchdogs over our elected officials. What Steve Wilson is doing is being vigilent- as should every other news source in town. What I see happening here in this forum is a discussion on HOW one plays watchdog. It also brings up the discussion of checks & balances; who watches over the watchdogs? |
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity
Post Number: 746 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 6:12 pm: | |
Smogboy: You're correct, of course. I don't think anyone is judging the merits of the claim he skimmed the money. I think the thread is about how SW got the info. KK is, in my opinion, innocent until proven guilty by a court, not we forumers. |