Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Great news for the SE side Previous Next
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1604
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 68.248.4.60
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 2:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Savarine Hotel will be reused as apartment/retail space...

http://www.modeldmedia.com/dev elopmentnews/savarine47.aspx

This is sort of out-of-the-blue from where I'm sitting--but very welcome news.

This is some really aggressive investment if they are going for market-rate spaces; sure, it's Jefferson about a minute from the GP line, but it is in a depressed area, at the edge of a neighborhood extending north from Jefferson which, as we know, is one of the most abandoned anywhere. Perhaps they've seen positive signs in the newer Victoria Pk. subdivision south of Jefferson, and in the nearby strip mall, and coupled with the overall robust nature of the loft and apartment market, they decided it was time to invest. Having restaurant/retail tenants downstairs as the article talks about would be awesome for that part of Jefferson.

I'll be interested to see how they market this, and glad to see this building used.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2190
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.72.7
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 2:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mackinaw is that the tallest building along Jefferson east of Conner? If so, then I know the building. Great news!

When you consider how the housing stock north of the East Jefferson area has been decimated to next to nothing, it is very interesting to see that the commercial space along that stretch of East Jefferson has remained pretty much intact.

One can only hope that with future development that the buildings can all be redeveloped, especially the Vanity Ballroom Building, a Deco treasure. That stretch of Jefferson still has its' high density "up to the sidewalk" storefronts. Hopefully that "community feel" won't be spoiled by some strip mall setbacks.

I know that there are plenty of the "any development is beter than none" mentality on this forum, but that East Jefferson stretch has sort of a "main street" feel to it that would be spoiled with strip malls. And that main street feel continues on into a few blocks of (developed) Grosse Pointe Park, before the residential stretch of Jefferson begins.

(Message edited by Gistok on May 30, 2006)
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1606
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 68.248.4.60
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 3:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's the one...right across from a new mall.
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Dabirch
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Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 1514
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 208.44.117.10
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 3:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A "you buy, we fry" hardly counts as a "restaurant", and a dollar store and nail tech hardly count as "retail".
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1607
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 68.248.4.60
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 3:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well it will take a long time for far east Jefferson to be more like lower Woodward, but why should we go around demeaning those people who currently do business here. They still have dignity, and provide a vibrant feel to this area, which, like Gistok said, could very easily be as empty as the neighborhood to the north. There is also at least one new barbershop and bait store in that stretch, in addition to a carwash and some kind of warehouse (once a ford showroom) that will be used by an artist.

Let's see what type of quality establishment the owners of this building can get in their ground level, to 'class it up' as Dabirch is talking about.
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Dabirch
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Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 1515
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 208.44.117.10
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 3:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hope for the best.

I really do. I have just been here long enough to not get too excited about new retail and restaurants unless they are specifically announced in advance of a buidling being renovated/built.

When was the last time you saw any retail that went into a spec site that was of any substance whatsoever?
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Itsjeff
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Username: Itsjeff

Post Number: 5989
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 208.27.111.125
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 4:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Certainly not a barber shop...
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Jsmyers
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Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1745
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 4:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

When was the last time you saw any retail that went into a spec site that was of any substance whatsoever?



Mark England Demode and the rest of the Merchants row, woodward center, and Compuware crowd.
CVS
A lot of the retail space in the Ellington is leased.
WSU's new ground floor retail on dorms and parking garages.

New or highly renovated retail space is leasing pretty well in many places. I've been told that one of the biggest problems is landlords who refuse to improve their properties. Just ask Cafe (she didn't tell me that, but I think she would agree).
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Reetz12
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Username: Reetz12

Post Number: 57
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.40.172.108
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 4:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great News.....unfortunately I think the construction schedule is a little too much, residents moved in by fall? We have all seen this before with these unrealistic dates, but like mentioned earlier this could be a great focal point for the east side to build off of.
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Dabirch
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Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 1517
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 208.44.117.10
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 5:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JSMeyers --

CVS was not spec. Conversations were held prior to building the garage.

Starbuck's and I believe Kinko's were both announced at the Ellington prior to one beam being put in the ground.

I am not sure about the timing of Merchant's Row, but I believe the car rental place and the Breakfast joint were both, if not final, at elast in serious negotiations prior to completion of the retail space.

Compuware was in advanced stage of negotiations with many tenants prior to turning dirt.

That is not spec building. When we saw JBs and Athletes foot open in the most prime stretch of retail space, that's spec building/rehabbing.

When we see what else will join Staples as well as the assorted useless stores in between fuddruckers and hollywood video, (most rented, too, I may add, but is there anything that is worth getting excited over?)that is spec building.

It is great news that they are rehabbing an old building in what would appear to be a rather undesireable location (for a mid rise market rate apartment building). I wish them the best of luck. All I said is that I am not too terribly optimistic about the prospects for the retail and restaurant portion.

Most spec retail building in Detroit ends up with nail shops, tax services, dollar stores, shoe stores, a possible cheap chain, and bad chinese food. Not to mention the check cashing and wireless giant stores.
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Jsmyers
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Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1749
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 5:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We have different definitions of speculative.

Under my definition, a project not built for a specific tenant(s) is spec. Under yours, it is only spec if the building is built before tenants are signed.

Conversations are not leases, and in many cases, even leases are not the reason the retail was put in.

I think that your attitude about specific types of commerce borders on snotty.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 10138
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.246.37.236
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 6:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dabirch,

If I didn't know any better I'd say you were Skipper Curmungeon posting under a different handle.
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Darwinism
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Username: Darwinism

Post Number: 511
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.209.164.233
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 6:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is this Savarine Hotel the same building as the Winston Place(http://atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/62684/69199.html) ?
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2195
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.24.35
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 6:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I believe it is Darwinism, but I the name threw me for a loop. Was Savarine Hotel the original name perhaps?

Boy I hope they fix up that hatchet job to the upper floors though. As can be seen by the pic on that other thread it looks like they left one of the original bay of windows, and redid the rest.

What makes the area to the east of this building so enticing is that it there was so little demolition done to that area, most of the commercial fabric still survives.

The poorer (housing stock wise) neighborhoods to the north have vanished, while the better neighborhoods on the river side are largely intact. To the north there were mostly wood frame houses, on the river side to the south there are mostly larger brick homes (that remind me of the Virginia Park neighborhood). Also to the south are the islands and canals.

I know of no other neighborhoods anywhere along the river in Detroit that have canals and canal homes.... except that canal farther west over by the Manoogian Mansion.

(Message edited by Gistok on May 30, 2006)
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 2660
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.167.210.191
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 7:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yep, same place as your pics of the Winston Darwinism. Nice shots; I missed that thread. By chance I passed by there on Sunday. Behold the Savarine.

savarine
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2201
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.24.35
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 7:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well there's a double arch window on the left side and on the front side. Looks like those embellishments were located only on those windows above the small balconies.

Hope they can do something without removing the 2 survivors to make it architecturally appealing once again.

And this building is screaming for a nice cornice.

(Message edited by Gistok on May 30, 2006)
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3812
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 24.11.154.56
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 8:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just an observation, but I've never heard any part of the city referred to as "south" anything besides the southwest side. I've always known this as a the Far Eastside.
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Bearinabox
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Username: Bearinabox

Post Number: 18
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 69.220.35.145
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 8:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Seriously, what would possess someone to brick over 2 arches in a different colour and leave the third (off-centre) one? It's like the bricklayers went to lunch one day and never came back. Either that or someone had some pretty weird ideas about aesthetics...
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Bibs
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Username: Bibs

Post Number: 496
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 10:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dabrich- Your description of spec retail made me laugh because the decription matches what you see in most retail strips any where in America. Hair shop, smoke shop, video store, wireless store, Lover's lane and collision shops ad nauseum for mile after mile. I often wonder how any of them can survive considering they are competing against one another. On Monday, I saw two liquor stores next to each other at Gratiot and Cotton Rd? Amazing!
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Dabirch
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Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 1519
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 208.44.117.10
Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 8:22 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JSMeyers - Maybe it is snotty. Or maybe it is a realist POV. Either way (1) I am happy somebody is investing in rehabbing a building, (2) I wish them the best, (3) I hope it provides services that the residents of the area, as well as those that drive past it every day, can utilize, (4) I am pretty certain of the quality of the retail that will eventually be located there.

Sport -- curmudgeonliness is a trait that most acquire around here eventually.
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Merchantgander
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Username: Merchantgander

Post Number: 1824
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 150.198.150.244
Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 8:56 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dabirch why don't you take your snotty attitude over to HFD. You will fit in better with the rest of the assholes that post on there. :-)

Merchantgander giving the finger to HFD.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1610
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 69.220.63.57
Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 9:05 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmich, this area is often called the far eastside, but in truth, NE Detroit area's i.e. along Whittier, Cadieux, Moross, and up to the Gratiot/8-mile area are actually the furthest east. The Jefferson/Riverfront a pretty much parallel in latitude to downtown, and since they are south of other expansive eastside neighborhoods along Mack and Gratiot, I'll call this area the SE side. I don't think I'm the first.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2207
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.72.39
Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 3:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yup, I grew up on the far east side (Chandler Pk Dr./Moross area) and we have Detroit's most easterly point... the southeast facing parking lot in front of Barnes & Noble Bookstore in Pointe Plaza at Moross & Mack.

The east riverfront is rarely mentioned (in these parts) as the far east side. Occasionally the local TV news programs call it that, but what to you expect.... they're all westsiders! :-)
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Irish_mafia
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Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 522
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.216.127.166
Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 3:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So Gistok,

Did you used to go down to the Sears at Mack and Moross to get a Hot Dog and a Coke and play that high-tech "Pong" game they had on display?
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Bvos
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Username: Bvos

Post Number: 1466
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.238.170.50
Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 3:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bearinabox,

The poor maitenance and patch jobs on the building have been a problem and concern of the neighborhoods for years. If the developer will be rehabing this building with historic tax credits (which I suspect he is since he's leasing at first rather than going condo) he'll have to fix all that as well as restore a cornice.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2210
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.72.39
Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 4:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Irish_mafia.... LOL.... no, I usually stayed on the "Mack-7" shopping plaza side. I hung out there with a friends in the 1960's as a kid. We went to the Woods Theatre when it was still one theatre (2,500 seats). We stopped at the Kresge's luncheonette counter for a burger, and looked at their tropical fish as well as the toy section. If we had enough money we would splurge on a Tuna Fish Sandwich and a sundae at Sanders (still remember those cone shaped paper cups with metal holders for the water).

My older brother used to work at the Wrigleys Supermarket (next to Penney's), and he used to hang out at Blazo's Restaurant (today the AAA Building).

I also remember watching them build the top 2 floors and adding the tower to the original wing of St. John Hospital.
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Swingline
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Username: Swingline

Post Number: 504
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 172.145.18.51
Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 5:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bvos, it seems kind of unlikely that $500-$800 rents will generate the kind of cash flow necessary to pay for the level of rehab usually required in historic rehab tax credit projects. I suspect that this deal has secured low income housing tax credits. Some projects get both kinds of credits, but it's kind of rare.

This building was renovated in the mid-80s using an earlier version of the low and moderate income housing tax credit program. You can see the half ass results with the inappropriate aluminum slider windows that are already being junked, the horrible masonry repairs and the first floor alterations that replaced most of the glazing with what effectively amounts to cinder blocks. These ugly results didn't attract the most appreciative tenants and the place was torn up and bankrupt in little more than a decade.

I hope the new developer can do better.
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1280
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 8:32 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Was it a Cunningham's Drug Store that was on the corner of Mack/Moross in the 60's? NW corner. Seems as if I got my Sunday NYT there. That's before "home delivery", but you got the "New York edition" of the Times back then, just like you would get if you were in Manhattan. It took me a week to get through the Sunday edition.
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Esd
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Username: Esd

Post Number: 20
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 160.109.103.190
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 8:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm trying to figure out what buying the NY Times at 7 Mile and Mack has to do with a rehab of an apartment building on Jefferson?
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1281
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 8:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess I thought in later life the Savarine Hotel shown in Lowell's photograph became the Newport hotel. Or was that at a different location? It sure looks the same.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1633
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 71.144.82.87
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 8:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well it all started with a discussion on geographical nomenclature for the east side. This happens from time to time. It's not the same as an all out thread-hijack, i.e. if we started talking about regional mass transit, or a couple posters started feuding.

But yes I do think this news is an important sign of life for the area.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4213
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.173.162
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 8:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just a year ago, the historic Savarine Hotel used to be subsidized Apartment complex met to house hundreds of low-income families. Gentrification had put them out. And Now Gentrification will turn that building from the Roach Motel into a luxury condos. I fell really sad for those low-income folks being put out of their homes in the name of URBAN RENEWAL.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1634
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 71.144.82.87
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 9:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well is it not better than the 'urban renewal' of decades past? It's not like we're gonna cut a highway through there and destroy the neighborhood. There is plenty of space for the low income people in the neighborhood...plenty of space.

But I did not know that it was recently used like that, so thanks for bringing this to the table.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2217
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.90.29
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 1:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The_Rock... you are correct... there was a Cunningham's there (I can picture the green ceramic glazed metal panels....). I think that the building is still there... it has been remodeled and used as a Kinko's today. Across Moross used to be the Woolworth's store (part of Mack/7 shopping center).

The_rock, you might be right about the Newport Hotel. Newport Street is nearby.

It seems that when there are redevelopments of old buildings that have undergone name changes over the decades, the original name is the one that is used most often.

This was the case with the new (old) Detroit Opera House. The news outlets always talked about the old Capitol Theatre being restored as the new DOH, even though it was the Capitol only from 1922-29.... and was the Paramount from 1929-34, the Broadway Capitol from 1934-60, the Grand Circus from 1960-90, and DOH from 1990-present.

(Message edited by Gistok on June 01, 2006)
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1282
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 6:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Gistok, for your input. But I think the Cunningham's I referred to was on the NW corner, and I know that the Kinko's you mentioned is on the SW corner. There is no building on the NW corner now, it is the "edge" of the parking lot for the shopping center.
And the fact that Newport street is in close proximity to the old Savarine Hotel makes me think that it did become the Newport Hotel. I knew a lady who worked on Mackinac Island in the late 50's and I thought she made her winter residence at the Newport Hotel, and that's what brought the whole subject to mind.
But I better not get into Mackinac Island memories or it will really set Esd off. He/she is not happy with my NY Times squib.
Mackinaw to the rescue......
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2228
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.105.167
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 7:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmmmm.... there was a Woolworth's in the Mack/7 shopping center. Was it behind the Cunningham's, which I assume was on the corner next to the Edison substation? I'm having a mental block about that corner. But I remember the A&P that used to be on Moross closer to the hospital.
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Bushay
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Username: Bushay

Post Number: 17
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 68.61.167.97
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 8:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is the building [on the far right end] where I had in mind to put a fish market in. The owner of the liqour store owns everything else attached. A cellular phone store is now going up in its place where the video store was. Too bad, as he didnt want much rent to occupy the building.
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Lexdetroitman_07
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Username: Lexdetroitman_07

Post Number: 20
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 74.131.204.36
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 10:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yet another project that will help Detroit!! Every little bit helps and this a major step in the right direction! I am very pleased to read about this!!

Lexdetroitman_07
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1286
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 5:35 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In the 7/Mack complex there was a Woolwoth's, a Winkleman's, and even a Radio Shack. Michelangelo's opened a "deep dish" restaurant, but it did not last very long.Their menu statted that it would be about a half hour between ordering and serving the pizza, and folks just did not want to wait that long. I forgot all about the A and P on 7 Mile.

Back to the Savarine Hotel, when it became the Newport, there was a Dixie Land Band that used to perform in the lower level, the same band that used to play behind the old Hudson store ( on Library Street?). But I cant recall the name of the group. They made great music!
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Tarkus
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Username: Tarkus

Post Number: 36
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 68.43.115.231
Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 6:26 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rock...Michelango's used to be a Lum's restaurant. There was also a Lerners at the end of the row of shops. Walk across the lot it was Woolworths and around the corner was Arbor Drug. Across Moross was Cunninghams which became Perry Drugs then it was Rite Aid. Across Mack it was Sears and Hughes and Hatcher which became a discount drug store A.L. Price?.
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2571
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 1:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't forget the Golden Lion!

Savarine
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1291
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 1:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't forget the Golden Lion. Memorable meals and even a floor-show of sorts. Walgreen's sits there now.
But I am too stubborn to concede there was a Cunningham's other than at the NW corner.
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2573
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 1:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Revco? I thought there was a bar on the corner (same side of Moross as the hospital).
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Bvos
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Username: Bvos

Post Number: 1486
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.238.170.31
Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 2:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If historic tax credits were being combined with LIHTC, rents could easily be in the $500-$800 range. I don't see how the above rents could be justified with doing significant renovations to the building.

Thanks for the great add MikeM. Lots of great marketing lines on there that you wish could still be true today.
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1294
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 2:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Revco was SW corner-where Kinko's is now.
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Esd
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Username: Esd

Post Number: 27
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 160.109.103.190
Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 2:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who really gives a rats ass what the hell was on the corner of 7 Mile and Mack?
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Mikem
Member
Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2575
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 2:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Rock. I think that's the corner Gistok is thinking of. What else can we come up with to annoy Esd further?...Gistok mentioned the A&P; does he also remember the Chatham(?) grocery store north of Kresge and behind J C Penny? Or was it a Great Scott!

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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1649
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 71.144.81.93
Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 3:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice post with the Savarine ad, Mikem.

7-Mack sucks these days with the huge parking lot fronting Pointe Plaza (not the worst strip mall ever, but none of them are good), and the empty lot on the SE corner. C'mon GP Farms, whaddya doin'?

I've always thought that this would be a great corner to build UP on, with a high-rise mixed use, alotting views of both the skyline and the lake, and bringing some new population and tax base to the Farms. Alas, it will never happen.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2236
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.3.85
Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 3:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL at Mikem.... Great pic! You can see tall front of the Woods Theatre right behind the awnings of the J.C. Penney store. Then there's Kresge's Winkelman's and Sander's, a couple of shoe stores, and then there's the Lerner Shop with the walkthrough arcade with detached display window just out of site. It almost looks like this picture was taken from the roof of Woolworth's.

Penney's was in Grosse Pointe Woods, with the Detroit border directly in front of the store. So that 7-Mack sign is at the easternmost point in Detroit.

Mikem, that supermarket (to the left of Penney's and out of sight) you were referring to was a Wrigley Supermarket.

There was also one at Harper between Bluehill and Oldtown. When they went out of business (later to become a Bruno's Furniture Store), the Wrigley Drug Store attached to the Harper store remained a Wrigley Drug Store for decades. Only in the last 10 years was it all torn down for a RiteAid big box.

When you think of Chathams, the nearest Chathams was the Morang & Kelly store (Chatham #8) where I worked from ages 16-21. The original Chathams (#1) was located on Kelly near the Vegas Supermarket in Harper Woods (between Moross & 8 Mile). They numbered at least 35 in Metro Detroit before the owners (Weisberg family) sold it to some investors who used it as a cash cow until they milked it dry into bankrupcy.

Growing up on the far east side was a wonderful experience because you had so much so close nearby. ...Starting to sound like a gentile eastside Jjaba.... but speaking in the "first person"! :-)

(Message edited by Gistok on June 02, 2006)
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The_rock
Member
Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1296
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 5:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Esd, are you on lsd? You got a short wick pal.
I just read some of your posts on the "Busted" and the "Glad To See Detroit Rise threads."
Speaking of inane.... You win the big prize. Maybe by post 30 you will really enlightened us with something other than doom and gloom.
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The_rock
Member
Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1297
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 5:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great photo Mikem of the old lot. It got pretty trashy in there in the long run and the present shopping center is a major plus for the area and so much cleaner.
I take it you were coming into City airport for a landing in a DC-3 when you got that photo, maybe a tad lower than you should be but you captured the scene and that's what counts.
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3866
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Saturday, June 03, 2006 - 12:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gistok draws jjaba into a discussion about the Eastside. Talk about Goyisha. Wow, not one word about a Jew dry goods store, no talk about Karp's Drugs, and not a word about a Jewish Delicatessen.
Well, atleast you found Borman's Wrigleys and Weisberg's Chatham Stores. No talk of Boeskey's. Really, is this about Detroit?

Wrigley's Drug Stores invented the self-serve concept in drug stores. People really liked them.
That legacy is seen today worldwide with Walgreens, Rite-Aid, CVS, etc.

Esd, welcome to the Forum. With the players on this thread, you get a real taste of the knowledge they bring about the City of Detroit.
It is important for The Rock to explain how he got the top Broadway Shows to come to Detroit by reading the NY times, Manhattan Edition. His daughter Bitsy was a local extra in the chorus line for numerous big shows. So, please, take him seriously. The Rock was also the chief of crew for Miss Pepsi, in the hydroplane races. He bankrolled Gar Wood.

Gistok knows more about Detroit theater history than anybody. He ushered downtown for 40 yrs. at several movie palaces and has the finest collection of uniforms and caps in Michigan.

Pilot MikeM stayed at several E. Jefferson Ave. hotels on layovers at City Airport and has more stories than Ty Cobb had stolen bases. He was the best ballroom dancer in the history of the Vanity Ballroom out there.

jjaba is a Westsider so this is all new to him. They almost sound like they know somethin'. Don't expect jjaba to correct them. That side is not a place jjaba has ever seen.

jjaba, Proudly a Westside Bar Mitzvah bukkor.
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The_rock
Member
Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1298
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Saturday, June 03, 2006 - 6:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, how 'bout that. jjaba joins in. Lots of Jewish lore for the eastside. Not bad for a westsider.
I just want esd to lighten up, and enjoy this Forum.Its so much more fun and interesting when we all get along, and let differences and diverse opinions manifest themselves in a positive manner.
You come over to the east side, jjaba, I will even buy you a gallon of gas at the BP station on the NE corner of 7 and Moross.( For some reason his gas is usually about 5 cents more than everyone else) We have not even discussed that corner yet.
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Danny
Member
Username: Danny

Post Number: 4221
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.173.154
Posted on Saturday, June 03, 2006 - 10:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mackinaw,

Oh there's plenty of space of low-income folks in Detroit all right. Making a shelter under the freeway bridges, making a cardboard condos on the bio-hazard concrete sidewalk or just sleep in the one of the classrooms in the at State Hall at the Wayne St. Campuses.
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3867
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Saturday, June 03, 2006 - 5:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As Bitsy would say, break a leg.

jjaba, got gas for less than $2.00 on Westside.
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Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1660
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 71.154.55.83
Posted on Saturday, June 03, 2006 - 6:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny--I'm pretty sure there is low-income housing awfully close to the low-income apartments that will now be somewhat gentrified. Winston Place/Savarine in its current state was exactly the best quarters for anyone, anyway. I wasn't being cold.
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2238
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.3.169
Posted on Saturday, June 03, 2006 - 8:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jjaba, know why there are so many dollar stores on the east side? Before their arrival, the east side always had to pay "retail"! :-)
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Darwinism
Member
Username: Darwinism

Post Number: 516
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 216.0.242.1
Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 1:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jason Jones and his company, Urban Innovation Group, is behind this project. They are knowledgable and experienced in such projects.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/f iles/2020s/20_jones.html

I am looking forward to a successful implementation of their plans.
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3874
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 2:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gistok remembers 12th Street for bargains.
There were some giant discount houses over there. That's the place you went for gift wedding present toasters.

Occasionally, somebody from the Eastside showed up, but not often.

Then the street became Rosa Parks Blvd., there were urban riots there, and the place changed forever.

The Rock, jjaba got gas today for less than $2.00 on the Westside.

jjaba.
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Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1674
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 69.221.36.73
Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 2:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the link, Darwinism
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Bobj
Member
Username: Bobj

Post Number: 734
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 65.221.183.220
Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 3:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hope this is a good project! I know a local developer that has tried a few projects like this with small apt bldgs in that area and they have not worked out well.
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2252
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.72.146
Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 3:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The_rock,Jjaba, Mackinaw, et al.... it always seems that any discussion on the east side always ends up talking about the 48224 zip code area.... We can't help it... we just like to "extoll the glories of the far east"....

We should come up with a crest or coat of arms... something with a pigeon on it! :-)
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Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1675
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 69.221.36.73
Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 3:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

48224, 48230, 48236 (kinda)...yes they do need a coat of arms. A pigeon...a sailboat...a croquet mallet...a pheasant...the seven sisters (in memoriam) and two brothers... it's just all so east-side.
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3877
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 3:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mackinaw, you are correct. "So Eastside" we don't know what the hell youse guys are talkin' about.
And with street names nobody can pronounce. How do youse guys say Gratiot?
jjaba.
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Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1677
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 69.221.36.73
Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 3:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Or Goethe, Chalfonte, Kercheval, Dequindre, Beaufait, Cadieux, and Moross, for that matter. And then the mile roads start bending to the southeast over here as part of the wheel-spoke pattern. And we point south to Canada. Man it's crazy stuff.
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2255
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.72.146
Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 3:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's easy Jjaba... "toit" comes from the ancient Sanskrit verb "to poop", and is pronounced in that manner....
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The_rock
Member
Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1305
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 12:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

48236 might adopt the mighty hexagenia a/k/a the fish fly, a/k/a the may fly as its logo. I saw a few last night. The're BACK!! And lots more to come.
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Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1690
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 70.233.3.2
Posted on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 3:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess 48236 must get the fly before 48230, because of your more expansive, east-facing frontage on Lake Sainte Claire. Thanks for the heads up, I'm sure they'll be crunching under my feet at Neff Park within a couple days.
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The_rock
Member
Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1306
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 4:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's not the crunching,its the sliding. I had a guy call me a few years back and wanted me to represent him in the St. Clair Shores District Court for a traffic ticket he received when he claims the accumulation of fish-flies in front of Fishbones Restaurant on Jefferson caused him to slide into the car stopped in front of him for the red light at 9 Mile.
He had come out of the GPYC at Vernier and was well aware that those little pests were all over the road. Hardly a "sudden emergency" situation to say the least!
I told him that the "fish-fly defense" does not pass muster on the east side, and that the local judges have "heard that one before" and he would be better off wearing a tie and coat, be courteous, appear without a lawyer,bring his checkbook, and maybe he would get a break.
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3884
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 10:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The fishfly defense has never been used on the Westside. So that's another difference about parts of Detroit.

On the Westside, our defense is I was getting bitch slapped by Rosarita when I ran over the bicycle. Oy veyesmere, the kid jumped and was not hurt. I bought him a new bike at Sears. Judge, Rosarita and I split up and I'm paying more attention to the road, your Honor.

And judge, here's an envelope. Take the wife out to dinner on Friday.

(Rock, how's the jjaba defense?)

jjaba, Westside.
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Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1694
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 70.233.3.2
Posted on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 10:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hahaaa.

Rock, I could see how the fishflies could cause an accident on Lakeshore after the July fireworks show, though, when there is a virtual fallout of them after the finale.
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2260
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.81.86
Posted on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 11:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In SCS.... gas station's, 7-Eleven's and the big 3 Pharmacies all keep their exterior lighting to a minimum in June.... all thanks to the Fish Flies. There's are times I have to drive over to Roseville to fill the gas tank cuz otherwise it's so gross walking thru the swarm and stepping on hundreds....
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2261
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.81.86
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 2:48 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The_Rock, any judge in SCS or Harrison Twp, or the Grosse Pointes who doesn't think that Fish Flies can impair an auto from stopping, has to have his head up his ass....

I know several folks who have had the same problem. One buddy with a motorcycle had it slid right out from under him at night on Lakeshore in Grosse Pointe Shores (during heavy Fish Fly season) when he was braking for another auto. Luckily the only thing he hurt was his pride, his motorcycle, and a few thousand Fish Flies.
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The_rock
Member
Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1308
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 8:15 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry--but the law firm of jjaba and Gistok is going to have real trouble in my courtroom with the fishfly defense, given the "notice" factor. With the "rear-end " presumption, the clear and convincing evidence necessary to rebut the presumption generally fails when I hear " I slid on ice, I slid on fish flies, I slid on snow". Drive slower, brake earlier, you know fish flies are in season. You know there is ice and snow in the winter. This is Michigan, this is the East side. Pay the fine, but no points if you do community service.
Now jjaba's (west side) envelope defense, is another story. We will just have to see what's in the envelope before we refer the matter to the State Bar Discipline Board.
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Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1696
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 69.221.73.49
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 11:46 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"This is Michigan, this is the East side"

haha I love it.
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2262
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.72.75
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 11:54 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

+----------------------------- ------------------------------ ------+

WELCOME TO THE EAST SIDE....
WE DON'T THREADJACK...
WE JUST BRING NEW LIFE TO OLD THREADS!!

+----------------------------- ------------------------------ ------+

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