  Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 390 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
50% of Canadians polled said they will make fewer trips to the United States or stop going across the border all together if the US implements its passport plan. I wonder what percentage of the Metro Detroit economy is made up of the products purchased and services used by Canadians? It looks like that portion of the economy is going to be cut in half. ID plan to keep Canadians home Windsor Star Published: Monday, May 29, 2006 One-half of Canadians would either travel less to the United States or never go again if the Americans made it mandatory to show a passport or other identification at the border, a new poll suggests. The Leger Marketing survey indicated 33 per cent of Canadians would go south less often, while 17 per cent would no longer go at all and 39 per cent would go just as often. The poll of 1,500 Canadians was conducted May 16-21 and distributed to The Canadian Press. It is considered accurate within 2.6 percentage points, 19 times out of 20. The U.S. government originally planned to require all travellers by sea or air to provide a passport or new high-tech identification cards at the end of this year, and for land crossings by the end of 2007. But on May 17, the U.S. Senate voted to push back the Jan. 1, 2008, deadline. Under an amendment that still has to pass the House of Representatives and receive presidential approval to become law, the deadline would be extended to June 1, 2009. Ken Oplinger, president of the Bellingham Chamber of Commerce in the state of Washington, says the tougher measures would hurt not only tourism, but also trade, especially at major crossings in Buffalo and Detroit. "In both places, when cars back up for a significant period of time at those bridges across the border, the trucks get caught as well," Oplinger said in an interview. "If we have cars backed up because there are delays at the border with people who don't have proper ID, trade is going to take a hit as well." © The Windsor Star 2006 | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8500 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.71.57.39 |
Keep those damn Canadiens home! | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 767 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
I doubt that requiring passports would deter Mexicans, especially illegal aliens. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5568 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 209.216.150.127 |
The worst part about the plan is that it is very isolationist. The plan IMO isn't to keep Canadians or Mexicans out, but rather to keep Americans at home, and to discourage international travel. I read somewhere that less than 20% of Americans even have a passport. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 2791 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.47.100.44 |
Would Detroiters feel any less about going to Canada if they had to pony up for a passport to visit Canada?? | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 391 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
Certainly, Detroiters will be less likely to go to Canada if a passport is required. At this point Canada has not announced whether a passport will be required to enter Canada, however US citizens will need a passport to re-enter the US. This is an American law -- the law in Canada has not been changed. Hopefully the war on terrorism will not turn into a war on tourism.... | ||
Naturalsister Member Username: Naturalsister Post Number: 671 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.30.158.46 |
This would certainly have an adverse affect on tourism. A large demographic of this region would find passports costly and bothersome to obtain. On both sides of the border. later - naturalsister | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 2794 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.47.100.44 |
OOoooo man, I can see how many folks are gonna be up in arms when they go OVER to Windsor from here, whether it's the casino, the strip clubs, the weekend jaunt to Toronto or whatever and then get smacked around at their own border for not having a passport. How many Americans even know about the re-entry law?? I've had my passport for years and have always kept it with me when going to Canada even though all I've had to use was the barest pieces of ID. I wonder how many of the supposed 80% of Americans (going off of Aiw's stats above) who don't have a passport will pony up the cash to go get one now just to go to our friendly neighbors' land. | ||
Naturalsister Member Username: Naturalsister Post Number: 673 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.30.158.46 |
I have had a passport since I was 11 (40 on New Years Eve this year) and I can count on one hand how many of my friends and associates also have them. The bulk of the people I'm talking about are college-educated, homeowners, auto leasees, white and blue collar people who are very likely the ones pouring dollars into the local economy on many different levels. For some reason, having a passport is not the mindset that I run across on the regular. later - naturalsister | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 378 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 68.43.81.191 |
Is it that much of an effort to get a passport? I think it took me all of 15 minutes at the Post Office to fill out the form and get my picture taken (they can do that for you at the post office now). A few weeks later your passport will arrive by mail. I wasn't even planning on leaving the country when I got mine, I just wanted one so that I would have it in case I ever needed it. Let's be honest, the most impoverished people in the Metro Detroit area probably aren't taking trips to Canada. The Americans crossing the border are heading to the casino or the bars/clubs or for some other form of entertainment. These people can afford passports, I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of Americans crossing the border can afford a passport but will bitch about it because they are too lazy to go get one. | ||
Pacypacy_ Member Username: Pacypacy_ Post Number: 56 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 24.192.166.67 |
Fine and dandy. Keep those funny coins on the other side of the boarder. I bet the Red Wings wish that the Edmonton Oilers would have stayed home. :-) | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5569 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 209.216.150.127 |
These figures are from 2003, but I doubt that much has changed: http://www.gyford.com/phil/wri ting/2003/01/31/how_many_ameri ca.php | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1690 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.212.51.175 |
Requiring folks to show a valid passport is hardly a "war on tourism". It takes about 15 minutes to fill out an application for a passport and only a couple of seconds to show it to the guy at the border. A "war" requires just a wee bit more than that. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1058 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.130.18.100 |
My sister-in-law's parents were from Canada. She has many relatives still in Ontario, where they even hold a family reunion every year. But now my brother would have to pony up $522 for six passports to take the kids along (and kids' passports are only good for five years). Once again screwed by stupid, biased Federal policy. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 392 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
Fnemecek, apparently you do not enjoy a good pun. It only takes 15 minutes to fill out an application if you have all the necessary documentation handy. How many Americans/Canadians (outside Windsor/Detroit) keep their birth certificates handy? My mother, a Canadian by birth and an American by blood, has been working on her US passport application for several months now. Since she was born in Canada, she needs to obtain my grandfather's birth certificate from Detroit, a copy of my parents marriage records from Windsor, a copy of her own long form certified birth certificate from Toronto, and have my grandfather swear an affidavit that must be drafted and notarized. Oh, and she has to spend 15 minutes filling out her passport application. Right now, for a family of 4 from Windsor to go to a Tigers game they need to pay for: - price of tickets - parking or tunnel bus fare - price of snacks, etc. at the game As of 2008, you can tack on $400 for passports and $70 for passport photos. Guess who is driving to Toronto? (Message edited by upinottawa on May 29, 2006) | ||
Sknutson Member Username: Sknutson Post Number: 586 Registered: 03-2004 Posted From: 64.139.1.36 |
I'd feel so much more secure, being better protected from those Canadian terrorists. | ||
Detourdetroit Member Username: Detourdetroit Post Number: 211 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.236.145.157 |
We went to Canada for the weekend. Toronto was amazing and doing so many things we should be doing here in D-Land. But I won't rant about that... What made us extra sad to be Americans was the border experience. While I understand at least the rhetoric of the "War on Terror" spiel and the idea that our borders must be secure, and therefore filled with overly stern, badass customs agents, blah blah, would it absolutely kill them to smile and say "Welcome Home..." (after giving up our passports and birth certs, and seeing in plain sight that we don't fit a racist profile)??? The difference between going and coming is palpable and somewhat depressing... | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3808 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.11.154.56 |
The whole "It only takes 15 minutes" argument is a gross oversimplication, at best. This resurgence of nationalistic "Fortress America" is going to bite us in the ass...again. | ||
Cynknight Member Username: Cynknight Post Number: 69 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.208.37.143 |
Maybe the real battle in all this is to get the price of getting a passport reduced. For adults, at least it's good for ten years (I'm on my third passport which expires in two years). If the cost of kids passports could be reduced (or eliminated), do you think that would be good enough? I personally have no problem affording a passport - but understand there are many who can't afford it. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 599 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 207.200.116.139 |
As noted, getting a passport is no big thing, but our open border with Canada has been too long a tradition to change. Watch for this plan to eventually end up in the Congress' shitcan. You heard it here first. I can't imagine my yearly trip to Detroit without a slab of ribs from the Tunnel BBQ. | ||
Naturalsister Member Username: Naturalsister Post Number: 675 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 70.8.73.2 |
Right, It's just not that simple, nor affordable for many. later - naturalsister | ||
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 267 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 71.227.95.4 |
I can see this law hurting Canadian border cities and businesses much more so than our own. Many places in Windsor rely on the large amount of Americans traveling there. Especially places like the casinos, bars, shops and restaurants. While some American business's will notice the difference, I don't see it affecting Detroit or Port Huron as badly. They both have a huge metro area to rely on for customers. Many of Canada's border cities are basically suburbs of their American neighbors, without the easy cross border traffic they will be in trouble. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2186 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.72.27 |
With the Candian dollar approaching the value of the American dollar, it will dampen future cross border bargain shoppers coming to the USA. | ||
S_marshall Member Username: S_marshall Post Number: 36 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.28.83.215 |
I only wish Canadian passports were good for 10 years. They're good for only five, and seem like they are more of a hassle to get here than they are in the US. I have one because I went to the UK two years ago, yet right now, I get waved right through US customs when driving over the Ambassador Bridge or Peace Bridge at Buffalo, even without checking ID. So much for security anyway. | ||
30th_street Member Username: 30th_street Post Number: 24 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
So the folks that are balking at obtaiing a passport, I suppose they also balk at $100 gym shoes, buying the next generation coolest ever than ever obsolete in 6 months video game system or maybe it will be the folks that would have to put on hold that cell phone they are going to buy their 9 year old. Just get the passport. Why do they cost so much anyway? | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1059 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.130.18.100 |
FYI my brother's family has none of that - not even cable tv my sister-in-law is one who daily tracks every penny they spend so they stay right side up | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 2804 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.47.100.44 |
Now here's a question for Americans & Canadians alike who cross the border on a semi-regular basis... where do you get hassled more? The US side or the Canadian side?? As it is now it seems I get hassled much more coming BACK home to the US. They know I've got US plates, a Michigan driver's licnese and all of the fancy paperwork that says I belong here and yet they still give me more grief. It makes me wonder whether the US even wants their own people back at times! If I were a Windsorite, would it even be worth my while to even come to the Detroit side if I was getting hassled that much? | ||
Deputy_mayor_2026 Member Username: Deputy_mayor_2026 Post Number: 56 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
What is the cost for an adult passport? | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 2808 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.47.100.44 |
Here are the prices on obtaining passports... http://travel.state.gov/passpo rt/get/fees/fees_837.html They have different levels for obtaining new passports, renewing, and age categories. I also know of services where they can obtain a legal passport for you immediately as well. They somehow have courier services and all sorts of safeguards but it's a small fortune depending on the amount of rush time you give them. | ||
Deputy_mayor_2026 Member Username: Deputy_mayor_2026 Post Number: 57 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
Thanks. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5571 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.71.64.28 |
Smogboy, 100% more hassle on the US side. | ||
Compn Member Username: Compn Post Number: 62 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 65.29.121.215 |
canadian passport fees: http://www.ppt.gc.ca/can/fees. aspx?lang=e Document Adults Children 16 or over -- 3 to 15-- Under 3 24-page passport $87 $37 $22 48-page passport $92 $39 $24 only get hassled at usa side. canada side is 100x more inviting. btw has anyone seen more canada plates since the dollar is getting near even exchange rate now? i havent noticed any upswing in ontario plates... maybe its a more popular shopping area in new york? (Message edited by compn on May 30, 2006) | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1007 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 64.142.86.133 |
I think its silly. Won't change much for the better IMHO. Only make more hassle. FYI the last 3 times I've been to canada over the past 3 years I haven't even been asked for my drivers license, much less my birth certificate. Every time its been "citizenship", "where you going","where you come from", "tobacco/alcohol/firearms", "good day". If that's what most people's experiences are now, what good is a passport gonna do? None. I don't really care either way. I don't have one now. They're kinda pricey but a good idea to have anyway. I should get one. I just don't think its necessary when going to or coming from Canada, and to be honest, I think it creates more of a friendly atmosphere and brotherhood between the nations. We are all a little Canadian and a little American. And I can remember as just a wee kid (15 years ago) that the US border agents were always more business like and less friendly than the Canadians, and they asked more questions. I don't think anything has changed in as long as I can remember. My view, more people would rather sneak into the US illegally or to do harm than would go from the US into Canada. And if US border security elsewhere (such as the airports) is stiffer than Canadian border security, we're doing a lot of the screening for them in the first place. If a bit less friendly experience and more probing questions mean a criminal is stopped, I can deal with it. | ||
Cafe Member Username: Cafe Post Number: 1260 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 84.162.60.80 |
Y'all are funny. You need a passport to travel to any country. The EU has made it possible for citizens of the participating countries to freely move with in the EU countries, but that is fairly new. I miss the stamps. You still have to keep your passort on you when you are out of your own country. The US passport people are easy when compaired to the Moraccan passport authority. The U.S. is starting to require what the rest of the world has required for a long time. I guess we are catching up. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 5990 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.213.167 |
If it would help keep AIW out, then I fully support mandatory passports. And blood tests. | ||
Ramcharger Member Username: Ramcharger Post Number: 1 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 68.42.78.175 |
"It takes about 15 minutes to fill out an application for a passport and only a couple of seconds to show it to the guy at the border." The last time I returned from Canada I handed my passport to the border guard and he spent the next 10 minutes flipping through it, examining and questioning me about every visa and every overseas trip I've made over the last six years. If they do that to everybody, crossing the border will take hours. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 395 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
Cafe, I would hardly say that the United States is catching up. The EU security perimeter approach is the way of the future. The current US/Canada non-passport entry was one of the most progressive border crossing systems in the world only to be passed by the EU several years ago. Moving to a passport only entry between Canada and the United States is the opposite of what the two states should be doing. The United States and Canada should be developing a security perimeter approach that places increased scrutiny on those entering North American and reduces (to some degree) scrutiny on those who are validly in North America. I think that enhanced driver's licences along the lines of the REAL ID Act that include place of birth would be a more than sufficient improvement on the current system. Most people carrying a driver's licence most of the time, few carry around their passports. Passport only entries will significantly reduce spontaneous trips across the border. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 396 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
Itsjeff, your plan won't work: Aiw has a passport - I remember that he went to Paris last year.  | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 5993 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
Curses. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5574 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.228.198.239 |
That's right, it's too late.... Also the problem with the US CBP agents is that they treat everyone as if you are a criminal. Endless questioning and hassles. In the last year I have been though customs in England 3 times, France, Switzerland, Canada and the US. Guess which one of those is the biggest hassle to deal with? Cafe you are too funny to say the US is "catching up". As some one who's inside the EU, you can honestly say that the USA's system is better?!?!? | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 399 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
Last summer I visited France, Germany, Austria, and Italy. I went through customs once in Paris and again back in Montreal. During the second week of our trip we stayed in a Bavarian town about an hour south of Munich. We thought nothing of heading over to Innsbruck, Austria for lunch -- no customs, no delays, no hassles. Now the US is planning to have Canadians carry passports to catch an afternoon ballgame in Detroit and planning to have Americans carry passports to go to Casino Windsor for a couple of hours. Catching up? I'd suggest it is more like falling behind. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5576 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.228.211.172 |
An interesting article in Maclean's this week, (For our American friends, Maclean's is the Canadian version of Time or Newsweek) about the border. I looked online, but the article isn't availabe. In the article it claimed passport ownership levels of 24% for Americans vs. 40% for Canadians. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2214 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.105.86 |
US Customs folks have always been jerks, even before 9/11. And they're like that both at the airport and at the border crossings. Are these folks naturally unpleasant, or do they take a class in it? What a way for first time foreign visitors to experience American hospitality. | ||
Blitz Member Username: Blitz Post Number: 178 Registered: 09-2004 Posted From: 72.139.243.118 |
American customs officers go way overboard, I was just going to the Tigers game on Sunday and was harassed with a bunch of irrelevant questions, had to explain why I didn't have the tickets on me (was picking them up at will call), and then had to get my trunk searched. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 401 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
Blitz, that's what happens when you avoid the tunnel bus. However, getting your car's trunk searched is better than getting your trunk searched when you get off the tunnel bus.... | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 483 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 64.79.90.206 |
Customs Officer Green at the Bridge is really terrible: posturing, vaguely threatening people with his power, overly talkative and boastful when he does his inspection interviews. You should fear getting in his line because it's slower by half than the other lines. I once went in the office to complain about him. It was funny because I was so incensed at his behaviour that I never thought about how everyone in there would be cold and nasty to me. I do give the supervisor credit though. He was pleasant. But Green's cowboy antics continue. | ||
Blitz Member Username: Blitz Post Number: 179 Registered: 09-2004 Posted From: 72.139.243.118 |
Yeah, this was actually my first time not taking the tunnel bus to a game (I avoided it because I knew it would be really crowded and hot). |
