  Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 268 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.246.10.215 |
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20060527/BIZ/6 05270369 Just what this old gem needs.... | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 824 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.21.35.84 |
Great news! | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1052 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
big *sigh* of relief Recently I read the owners just bought a similar landmark hotel in Pittsburgh. I was afraid the Pontch was either going to go or the new acquisition in Pitt would end up neglected like the Pontch has been. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1013 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
This is excellent news. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 978 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.221.93.254 |
The Pontch hasn't gone through nine owners in FORTY years -- the original family, the Gershensons, owned it through '84, '85 at least. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 5962 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.213.167 |
Glad to see Sheraton trying to redeem their good name in Detroit : ) | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1080 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.122.204 |
Tear that schitt down.  | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 979 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.221.93.254 |
For me, the Cadillac will always be the Sheraton Cadillac, that's what it was when I ate their with my parents and sipped a Shirley Temple as a wee tot. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 243 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 64.53.238.2 |
The Pontch was originally planned as a two - tower (identical) hotel. The infrastructure was build for the second tower but the Gershenson's recognized after the first tower was completed that the whole idea no longer looked so good and the second tower was "temporarily" dropped. While its location close to Cobo should make it the premier hotel downtown, it does not have the necessary number of rooms and meeting/banquet facilities to be designated as the primary hotel for most larger conventions. It would have if the second phase had been built. It's now lucky to get any overflow. After the RTC forclosed on the hotel I was asked to be one of several investors to bid for the hotel for $5,000,000. I and most others opted out and that deal did not get done. It was not deemed to be worth $5,000,000 by me and most others for the reason that it was losing $900M+ a year and there was very little upside which would eliminate the anticipated multi-year deficit cash-flow and operating losses. It would have been a gut-shot bet on the revival prospects of Detroit at the time and very few if any were willing to take that bet. Everybody who has been sucked in by that turkey has lost money. Maybe these new prople know something nobody else does. Hope so. Bet they don't. And, at one time, it was a really nice place. Chuck Muer had a couple of great restaurants in there and weekly "P-Jazz" concerts on the outside deck (site of the proposed 2d tower) were great crowd generators. With all the new casino hotel rooms coming on line (so they say), and the B-C a possibility, there is probably no viable justification for completing the original Pontch plan. | ||
Apbest Member Username: Apbest Post Number: 66 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.40.65.66 |
so we should let it deteriorate? | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 244 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 64.53.238.2 |
Let nature take its course. Whatever that course may be. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7496 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 4.229.99.51 |
3rd - I assume 900M is a typo. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3799 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.11.154.56 |
Great news, though, I believe in the not-too-distant future, the land that the Pontch sits on will be very valuable. There will come a time when Cobo will need an attached hotel, and as someone alluded to, one large enough to make it a viable convention center hotel. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 245 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 64.53.238.2 |
Jt1: No typo. $900,000 M=Roman numeral for 1000 Lmichigan: You got it.If the market is there, or develops, someone should carry out the original plan and build the originaally proposed 400-500 room building, and possibly connect it by a walkway to Cobo. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2172 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.81.209 |
By the way, IIRC, the expanded Cobo was designed for an easy catwalk connection above Washington Blvd. from Cobo to the Ponchartrain. Only it was never built. 3WC, you shouldn't be mixing Roman and Arabic numbers.... 900K would make more sense! (Message edited by Gistok on May 28, 2006) | ||
Dalangdon Member Username: Dalangdon Post Number: 12 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 67.171.17.254 |
It interesting to see how much faith Starwood (the parent company of Westin and Sheraton) is putting in downtown detroit. They are hard-nosed businesspeople, and if they are investing, they must believe there's money to be made there. | ||
Kookie Member Username: Kookie Post Number: 97 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 69.14.46.86 |
since starwood doesn't own it, the company isn't taking too much of a risk. but I think they realize that starwood needs a presence downtown, especially since they probably have the most loyal customers in the hotel business. I won't stay anywhere else if I can avoid it. | ||
Kilgore_south Member Username: Kilgore_south Post Number: 62 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 24.176.20.117 |
Exactly what year was the Pontchartrain built anyway? I'm too lazy to go look it up... | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1086 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.122.204 |
It's an early to mid '60s POS, IIRC. | ||
Kilgore_south Member Username: Kilgore_south Post Number: 63 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 24.176.20.117 |
1965 according to Emporis. POS?? You could do worse for 60's architecture. Plus have you seen the views from the top? | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1087 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.122.204 |
It's the view of the building from the street that I don't like. I'm sure the view from an upper floor in the Ren Cen hotel is breathtaking as well. But when all is said and done, it's still the Ren Cen. Ugh. (Message edited by Fury13 on May 28, 2006) | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3800 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.11.154.56 |
Personally, I'm indifferent to the design, but it certainly serves its purpose for the time being. The concrete-faced base may not be attractive at all, but I've seen much worse for the 1960's, in terms of architecture. The way they creatively designed the hotel to give each room a view of the river is a very redeeming feature, and gives the structure a lot of extra texture. | ||
Dalangdon Member Username: Dalangdon Post Number: 13 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 67.171.17.254 |
"since starwood doesn't own it, the company isn't taking too much of a risk. " Generally speaking, Starwood is agressively moving out of the real estate business. In many cases, they are selling the real estate they own to a division of Marriott while continuing the operation of the facility. But beyond that, operating a hotel means investing in people and resources. In this case, it's especially noteworthy that they are putting two of their best brand names on the line (as the Westin Cadillac and Sheraton Ponchitrain) in an area that they recently left (Westin operated the hotel at the Ren Center for a while, but I think they left prior to the Starwood merger. I don't know if they were asked to leave, or wanted out.) It's difficult, and sometimes quite expensive, for a company to pull their name from a hotel, particularly when they have convention contracts five or six years out. Savvy meeting planners insist on out clauses in case they think the new operator of the hotel is not up to their standards. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 269 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
When GM took over the REN CEN they asked some hotel corporations to bid on managing the hotel. Hilton, Marriott and Westin gave bids and GM went with Marriott after over 20 years of Westin managing it. This was before Westin became part of Starwood and I think its standards might have been a little lower than now (pre-heavenly bed, bath, etc.) I think it's great that (hopefully) in a few years we will have a Marriott, Sheraton, Westin, Omni, and Hilton (even if it's lower Garden Inn version) downtown. Now we need a Hyatt, Ritz, full-service Hilton, and we will have all the mainstream luxury hotel chains downtown where they belong. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2177 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.81.209 |
Although they may have had a bidding process, I think that the whole deal may have been biased in favor of Mariott. After all the Chairman of Marriott sits on the GM Board of Directors. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2178 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.81.209 |
I think that the David Whitney Building would make an excellent Hyatt. By moving the ornate wrought iron skylight from above the 4th floor arcade to the top of the 18th floor (there is a 14 story light well above the arcade glass ceiling), they could do their trademark soaring lobby effect, and they could put wrought iron railings around the 18 story atrium thus making it an early 20th Century Beaux Arts verions of their trademark soaring atrium. How cool would that be! The exterior once had a subdued Beaux Arts exterior, then the ornamentation was removed in a mid 20th century modernization. This included some ornate sculptural embellishments along the roof line. | ||
Apbest Member Username: Apbest Post Number: 67 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.40.65.66 |
i believe development of whitney may occur w/ Rock HQ on Statler, imo...and from what I've heard from supposed insiders it might be residential targeted @ rock employees, but its renovation (according to these people) would accompany the rock development | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3803 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.11.154.56 |
I've always imagined the David Whitney Building being half hotel/half residential, or some other combination of the two, with the ground floor finally being filled back in with retail establishments. It would seem that its future would be much more promising as a mixed-use development. | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 51 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 12.45.2.184 |
I like the idea of turning a old building into a hotel but not in DETROIT, not any more. Old historical buildings like the D. Whitney should be converted into condos or apartments preservering the building for the residents of the city/region and build new buildings for the hotels. DETROIT is just about out of old buildings anyway  | ||
Kilgore_south Member Username: Kilgore_south Post Number: 66 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 24.176.20.117 |
Love the idea Gistok, but for me it really would be a shame if the Whiney was anything but an office building. IMHO it's the best example Detroit has of an early 20th-century office tower. On the other hand you can't preserve everything like a museum, and there's already a ton of vacant office space downtown... As long as somebody gets in there I'm happy. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3804 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.11.154.56 |
The David Whitney is so great in that it can work on so many levels. It can be just about anything, and is one building that I have no doubt will see reuse in the future. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 829 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.231.189.137 |
I really hope that one day the Whitney will be saved, along with Rock would be great...however, I have it from a pretty strong source that Rock is a no-go. Hopefully the source isnt as strong as it appears | ||
Dalangdon Member Username: Dalangdon Post Number: 14 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 67.171.17.254 |
Just for the record - as someone who has slaved under all three brands - Westin was, and is, superior to Marriott and Sheraton. Although Marriott and Sheraton had much better benefits. Starwood's senior management has, by and large, come up through the Westin side of things. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2179 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.72.162 |
I agree, the Whitney has the potential to be just about anything. But I would probably rule out office use. The trapezoid donut shaped floor plans are not well suited to current office needs... but never say never! | ||
Rbdetsport Member Username: Rbdetsport Post Number: 107 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 68.61.11.146 |
Motorcitymayor2026, who and when did you hear that from? | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 834 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.231.189.137 |
I heard it last week. I cant say who exactly from, but he is the top man at one of the premier business real estate and building firms in the state, HQ'd in Southfield. Thats really all I can say..hopefully he is wrong | ||
Mr_onion Member Username: Mr_onion Post Number: 178 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.205.46.219 |
i think it should sit there abandoned for 30 to 40 years, stripped of any usable material,, then years of neglect and snow and rain bathing it in Deetroit BLack soot,, then let many people argue about what should be done about it,, fight over stuff like Bonds,, Taxes, kickbacks, Then have the Mayor have a Major announcement letting us all know he will Rebuild her,, but then have the deal fall thru ,, have numerous useless websites devoted to it,, Then Start peoples hopes up all over again, as it continues to rot in the city by the river we know as Detroit. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1631 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 75.7.44.149 |
This is good news?
All I can say is, typical Detroit. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1520 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
So are you saying that Ben Maibach personally told you that Rock was a no go? | ||
Esd Member Username: Esd Post Number: 18 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 160.109.103.190 |
Come on Dabirch don't you know all highschool seniors in Brighton have the inside track to the latest happening in the D? | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1521 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
well, it was either him or his best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend who heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw a guy who know's Rock is a no go. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1860 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.106 |
I heard from a reliable city source that the Rock deal is virtually DOA. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 5998 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
I'll write a letter. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1275 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.42.251.225 |
I wish the old Pontch the best under the Sheraton moniker. But I still remember when it opened way back when. It really looked and was beautiful, really classey. We booked a lot of clients in there when they came into Detroit for depositions or trials. But over the years, even though it has been under different management of various well-known hotel names, it never has looked as good, nor was it as inviting a place to stay than it was under "original ownership". And I don't even recall who they/he /she was/were when the doors first opened. But I will always recall the "original Pontch" as a real showpiece. | ||
Esd Member Username: Esd Post Number: 19 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 160.109.103.190 |
I'm going to write a letter too! | ||
Matt Member Username: Matt Post Number: 1050 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.49.95.12 |
Is that sarcasm, NDavis? I honestly can't tell. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1861 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.106 |
It's not sarcasm this time. | ||
Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c Post Number: 756 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.76.202.10 |
Why would that be the case, Ndavies? What reason would Rock have for not coming down? Any mention? | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 854 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.231.189.137 |
Alright, Dabirch...whether I am a high school senior or not I am in the know on this one. Ya see, there are lots of prominent businessmen that live in my area, whom I regularly talk to, and knowing how interested I am in Detroit, we regularly discuss Detroit happenings. You dont have to believe what I tell you, but I have no motive to make this shit up. Also, if you dont belive me you dont need to try and discredit me... | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1278 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.42.251.225 |
An interesting thread on the Pontch has been quasi-hijacked into a heated discussion on the Rock group coming down to Detroit from suburbia. Don't knock the Rock, but if you do, knock the Rock elsewhere. Bring back the Gershensons, let Shearaton build elsewhere and the Pontch's troubles are solved. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 986 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 71.144.86.59 |
It would be a younger generation of Gershensons...it was the matriarch, Sylvia Gershenson, who last presided over the Pontch in its glory years, into the early '80s. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1525 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
MCM -- Not stating an opinion on the veracity of what you said. Nor did I discuss your age. Rather, I was mocking the name dropping, and trying to point out to you that Detroit is a small city, and you are talking about one of probably 4 people (i.e. Maibach, Farbman, Watchowski, or Schostak), if your definition of "leading real estate and building company" is accurate. A lot of people know a lot of people in the area, and I am quite certain that none of those four would appreciate having somebody post something as large as this on an internet forum that could be attributed to something that they directly told somebody. Be careful how you try to gain credibility in what you say, it can come back to bite you in the ass. Maybe I should've been more direct in my original post, but where's the fun in that? | ||
Lurker Member Username: Lurker Post Number: 1644 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 65.196.220.198 |
You're going to have to wait until after 3pm to get a response, Daburch. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 856 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.90 |
Oh come on, you know they get computer access during 3rd hour priv | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 505 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 172.161.169.92 |
Let's hear some old timers' memories of 1960's high style dining at the Top of the Pontch. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 855 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.231.189.137 |
Actually, school's out Lurker. Dont be so sure that it is one of the four people you mentioned either. We'll see what happens. Hopefully this man is wrong, and then you can all come and blast me and say how stupid I am. Looking forward to it. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1832 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244 |
Why do we have to wait to tell you how stupid you are? You have 855 posts now. There are plenty of reasons to call you stupid even if you are right about Rock. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 987 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 12.34.51.20 |
I have memories of 1980s high style dining at the Pontch...it was still top-notch. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3855 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
There are scores of un-named hotel chains not represented in Detroit. Compare to Chicago, Houston, New York, New Orleans, Miami. Pontchartrain Hotel, Built 1965, by architects King and Lewis. First hotel built in downtown Detroit since the roaring 1920s. It was a result of the grande Civic Center planning by Albert Cobo and the City Council in the 1950s. The hotel has angular bay windows so views out a guest room would include Detroit River AND City of Detroit. The site is the approximate site of Antoine de la Mothe Cadillac's Fort Pontchartrain of 1701. The hotel was built to complement the Cobo Hall conventions, local events, Jewish weddings, and The Rock's legal business. After The Rock retired, the place never recovered. The last time jjaba was there, the elevators were in-op, the escalators were not working, the carpet was threadbare, and in July, the lobby was hotter than a Finnish sauna. It is rumored that the window washers were last there in 1985, and still waiting to be paid. Faucets in bathrooms were leaky. jjaba, tells it like it tis. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 859 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.231.189.137 |
Go ahead merchantgander, a majority of your posts are much like the one above, full of useless insults. This is a website to help share and spread information about Detroit. I had some information to share and I did. Get over it. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1837 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244 |
I also had some information and shared it. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 860 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.231.189.137 |
Well, your information can be classified in the "Non-Detroit Issues" as your insults dont belong on the "Discuss Detroit" forum. | ||
Pamequus Member Username: Pamequus Post Number: 49 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 158.229.218.204 |
High School graduation dance held at the Ponch, 1967. Wonderful memories. | ||
Pamequus Member Username: Pamequus Post Number: 50 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 158.229.218.204 |
One more thing.... I am NOT an old timer!!!!! | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3432 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.251.226.28 |
Don't trust anyone over 30! | ||
Tayshaun22 Member Username: Tayshaun22 Post Number: 203 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.14.101.116 |
Moderator, this thread is getting out of hand. Can you please move it to Detroit Memories? | ||
Radiorick Member Username: Radiorick Post Number: 1 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 69.235.234.163 |
I was born in Detroit (Harper Hospital) in 1954. My paternal grandparents were long-time Detroiters. My grandfather had an office in the David Whitney building, and by the time I was old enough to comprehend/remember anything (say 6 years old), they had moved to 435 Glendale (near Livernois). My family by this time had moved to Chesaning (~100 miles north) but we would occasionally drive to Detroit for holidays, etc. We wouldn't always stay at my grandparents house, and on several occasions we stayed downtown at the Ponchartrain. This would have been shortly after it opened in 1965, and one trip occurred in the vicinity of the 1967 riot, during which we (at least my brother and I) were scared out of our wits with all of the sirens screaming through the night. But I digress. The Pontchartrain was a great hotel with fine room service and prime rib at the La Mediterranee restaurant. On the subject of a different hotel, the Pick-Fort Shelby: In 1972 I entered the US Air Force at the Detroit Armed Forces Entrance and Examination Station (AFEES). Lodging for about-to-be-inducted recruits was at the Pick-FS. I remember getting off the bus in downtown and coming from small-town Chesaning (and just 18 years old), I was a bit overwhelmed with all of tall buildings and with my neck craning, I was quickly accosted by a pimp who asked me if I needed any help. I told him I was looking for the Pick-FS and he rattled off some directions. I said thanks, checking to make sure my wallet was secure, and as I walked away he inquired as to my racial tastes in women (black, white, asian, etc.) and whether I might be interested in some entertainment after I got settled at the Pick-FS. I knew that no good was likely to come of such and arrangement, and politely declined the offer. As I understand the history, the Pick-FS was on its last legs by that time, which would be consistent with the former luxury hotel stooping to cater to a government contract for lodging. I can only imagine what damage the rooms must have suffered at the hands of 18-year-old guys, many of whom were destined for their Government sponsored trip to Viet Nam. Enough rambling for now... Rick | ||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 1363 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.122.57 |
Freep version of the renovation appears in today's Travel section: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060611/FEA TURES07/606110535/1032 |
