  Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 3745 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.208.233.74 |
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060519/METRO/605190428/1034/ENT As someone thrilled by the December format change, this couldn't be disappointing. Six employees laid of at WDET last week several others had their hours and pay cut so Wayne State can protect a criminal. Expect more notable names to disappear from the WDET airwaves soon. I hope Irv Reid, Michael Coleman, Harvey Ovshinsky, and Marla Stone are having fun wrecking public radio in Detroit. I wonder what Walter Reuther would think of what's happening at the radio station he founded?  Would you trust this man with your money? (Message edited by jelk on May 19, 2006) | ||
Newlaster Member Username: Newlaster Post Number: 169 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.136.136.209 |
Wayne State doesn't have anything to do with staffing at WDET. They just provide space and utilities to the station. | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 3746 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.208.233.74 |
Newlaster you are mistaken. They hire the station's general manager. That general manager is Michael Coleman...a convicted embezzler. | ||
Vic_doucette Member Username: Vic_doucette Post Number: 272 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 65.196.220.198 |
And WSU holds the license for the station. No matter how much or little it funds the station, it is still ultimately responsible for having an admitted embezzler at the helm. | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 364 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 68.43.81.191 |
Holy crap, does that guy look like a stoner or what? Somebody get this guy some Funyuns and a Mountain Dew STAT! | ||
Jim Member Username: Jim Post Number: 975 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.27.192 |
"We are looking forward to continuing the momentum we are seeing at WDET under Michael's leadership." Many of the articles that I have read point to a drop in listeners, a drop in donations (even with a decreased goal), employees being let go and a criminal who is the general manager. That is some momentum that in most jobs would lead to no job. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 923 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.221.93.11 |
Uh, the Arbitrons showed an increase in listeners in the winter, from the fall. Where's your info coming from, Jim? | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1668 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.212.44.25 |
Walter Reuther founded WDET? Dang, you learn something knew every day. | ||
Jimg Member Username: Jimg Post Number: 596 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
The UAW 'gave' the station to WSU in 1948, I think... Interesting that the Arbs showed an increase - usually short-term ratings drop following major programming changes. Suggests that, despite much wailing and gnashing of teeth, much of the audience welcomes the change. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5549 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 65.92.101.148 |
Jelk, I wish I had known about the staffing "changes" prior to paying my pledge. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 2626 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.167.58.162 |
Disappointing report. I note, however, that the charge is a misdemeanor, not a felony. So I don't know if he quite qualifies as a 'criminal'. Who was laid off? | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10094 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.37.236 |
Oh god, here we go again, another disgruntled employee for whom we will have to listen to bitch and whine for a good year or more, a la the bitter Compuware employee we had on here. Sounds like someboyd just worked the system against "the man" if you ask me, where's the love? | ||
Blondy Member Username: Blondy Post Number: 1038 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.73.57.215 |
Shut up Supersport. Let's see how you feel should you ever get laid off from a job. ANYWAYS, Jelk, please let me know who I can write at Wayne State to express my displeasure of their continuing employment of Coleman. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1671 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.215.247.206 |
I gave money to WDET this year. I doubt I'll do it again. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 924 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.221.93.11 |
I agree with Supersport, I'm a little tired of people with a personal beef making this a lifelong crusade. Get over it! | ||
Drm Member Username: Drm Post Number: 952 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.213.80.70 |
Maybe I'm slow, but what is the connection between the two? | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 997 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
If Ed Love goes so does my listening to WDET, at least we have WRCJ now. Although I would miss NPR is WDET goes under. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 998 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
Although I just read in todays Freep that Arbitron said WDET had a net gain 11,400 listeners (January-March) compared to the previous 3 months. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1150 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.73.202.124 |
Today's Free Press article: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060520/ENT 03/605200334 | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 925 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.221.93.11 |
Two days after it was already in the News, it's already been discussed here Bob. http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20060518/E NT02/605180438&SearchID=732451 52341510 | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 3747 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.73.59.32 |
The arb's went up because Allen Mazurek is a better program director than Judy Adams. You'll hear no complaints about the programming changes from me. It is too bad that Coleman seems to be listening less to Allen and more to a slug of an outside consultant named Harvey Ovshinsky and University bean-counters. But there can be no question that the Spring fundraiser failed, in part, because of the indictment against Coleman and the University's poor handling of the situation. A week and half before the indictment came down, Craig Fahle asked Michael Coleman point blank at a staff meeting if the controversy at WUOM would affect WDET. Coleman said point blank absolutly not, they weren't investigating him at all. Either that was a lie or Coleman is just stupid. My guess is the former, since it has since been reported that he had been questioned by authorities concerning the WUOM situation going as far back at November, 2005. WDET staff found out about the indictment when it appeared on the Freep website, even though Michael Coleman informed Wayne State Vice President of Marketing the day before. To refresh the timeline here this is less than two weeks before the pledge drive began. Micahel Coleman never made a statement to WDET staff that he was innocent (we know now why) nor did he ever apoligize for getting his employees involved in this mess. Given the bad publicity and Wayne State's decision to keep Coleman at the helm, WDET requested that Irv Reid make a statement affirming WDET's sound business practices and the University's support for WDET. IRV REID REFUSED TO SUPPORT WDET. It should be noted Mary Sue Coleman made exactly that kind of statement in support of WUOM. That's why UofM is an internationally regarded place of higher learning and Wayne State is, to borrow from Russell Kirk, a Car College. The Spring Pledge Drive had a loosely defined goal of between $600,000-$700,000, WDET raised about $450,000. Anyone that tells you an embezzlement indictment against a head of non-profit doesn't hurt fundraising is a damn fool. Coleman's legal problem was the 800lbs elephant in the room. And the poor fund drive lead to the lay-offs. There's your connection DRM. And as for those willing to stomach the "well it's a misdemeanor" spin, it still amounts to an admission on Coleman's part that he took something from a public radio station that wasn't his. He still gets to vote and purchase a firearm, I don't begrudge him that but it seems to me that embezzling from a public radio station should be enough to prevent you from running a public radio station. After 10 years of service to WDET, Jon Moshier deserved better than to be cut loose because Michael Coleman is a liar and a cheat. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 602 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.212.169.194 |
I agree with most of the content that Jelk stated... and I do work at WDET as a volunteer (and am considering stopping because of this debacle), but his delivery (on this and other matters) really destroys his message. Insulting Wayne State as a "Car College" and using "Irv"... give me a break. By the way... I would say that a good 70% of the pledge callers this time actually said that they were supporting WDET but preferred the music during the day. (Message edited by east detroit on May 20, 2006) | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 2697 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.47.100.44 |
I'm already innundated with news programming from all sorts of media outlets. If I really wanted NPR, I could still tune into WUOM. What I missed was the eclectic music during my middays. I haven't listened to WDET during the day since the switchover to more news during the day. Now I don't begrudge the news programs at all but sometimes the stories or interviews take time to develop and while I'm at work sometimes I just don't have a clear cut 20 minute block to listen to the topic. Music on the other hand comes in smaller easier to digest doses and that's what I missed the most- whether it was Judy Adams, Dave Dixon, Martin Bandyke, Ann Delisi or whoever was delivering it. | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 3748 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.208.233.74 |
Irv Reid refers to himself as Irv Reid. That's like bitching about someone calling Bill Clinton, Bill Clinton instead of William Clinton. As for the Car College crack, here is the origin... (from Wikipedia) <i>Upon completing his degree, Kirk took up an academic positiion at his alma mater Michigan State, but resigned in 1959 after becoming disenchanted with the school's declining academic standards, rapid growth in student numbers, and emphasis on intercollegiate athletics and technical training at the expense of the traditional liberal arts. Thereafter he referred to Michigan State as "Cow College" or "Behemoth University."</i> (Message edited by Jelk on May 20, 2006) | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 603 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.212.169.194 |
Wayne State hasnt pushed aside academics in favor of Coleman. | ||
Ravine Member Username: Ravine Post Number: 78 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 69.221.33.10 |
Dang right, Smogboy. NPR's news programming is very good, but that's not the point. The point is that WDET provided the only worthwhile free-form music programming in the city, and now all we get is informational programs. I don't constantly crave information. I didn't even like half the stuff that Martin Bandyke played, but I appreciated his show. John Penny was my Main Man. All gone... As for Ed Love, I respect him greatly, but I am a jazz lover who likes to occasionally hear something "a little different" once in a while, and Ed seems to have struck a groove where he is playing too much generic-sounding stuff all the time. There must be some recordings which do not feature Eric Alexander and Joe Farnsworth. As for Coleman, it would seem that he is an ***hole, he looks like one, and the sneaky post-fund raiser programming overhaul indicates one, so I'm kinda figuring that he is, in fact, an ***hole. An aside: You mentioned an Ovshinsky. Are you sure it's Harvey? You also mentioned Dave Dixon, so I'm wondering if you may be fortunate (and old) enough to remember the glorious days of TRULY great free-form radio in Detroit, on WABX-FM, where Dixon and Harvey O. both worked, Dixon as a DJ and Ovshinsky, I think, as a news editor or some such off-air capacity. I loved that station. They played whatever they wanted, from all genres of music (although I do not recall hearing any opera or country.) And, lord knows it wasn't about people-pleasing; I called up the station once, to ask Dennis Frawley to play a particular John Lennon tune, and he grunted, "No. I don't like that song," and hung up. Priceless, even though I was a bit miffed at the time. Oh, the nostalgia. Maybe I should go upstairs and put some Iggy on the stereo. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 728 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Technology has moved on. Many of today's FM stations are experiencing the same economic obsolescence as did AM radio after 1980. Cry or whine not! There's plenty of satellite and streaming alternatives. | ||
Ravine Member Username: Ravine Post Number: 79 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 69.221.33.10 |
Yeah, L-yard, you're right. That's one move into the 21st century that I really should make. I like jazz from the late fifties-early sixties, and there's none of that on the FM dial in Detroit. Don't get me started on the so-called "jazz" stations, full of hacks with soprano saxophones playing "smoooooooth jazz." Ugghhh. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 729 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Just one of several jazz streamers, and it's from . Still another difference... | ||
Drm Member Username: Drm Post Number: 955 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.213.80.70 |
Jelk - thanks for the info. I hadn't heard that WDET fell so short of their fundraising goal. I'm sorry if you're one of the folks impacted. | ||
Jimg Member Username: Jimg Post Number: 597 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
Ravine, I too love Ed but yeah jazz is a language and it is spoken in more tongues than those artists Mr L often features. I too remember (vividly) ABX, early DET and etc, too...why don't one of these jazz stations feature DETROIT jazz? Or a program with a heavy concentration of Det jazz? Otherwise it all sounds so...generic, as you said. Damn. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 926 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.221.93.11 |
Martin Bandyke and Judy Adams programmed "free-form radio"?? In what universe? How does playing endless Tangerine Dream and Pat Metheny, over and over, qualify as "free-form"? How does back to back U2, Los Lobos and other big-name, signed to Universal Records acts qualify as "free-form"? You guys should have been around when WDET REALLY was free-form. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 605 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.212.169.194 |
Thats back when they "allowed" volunteers on the air (other than DRIS). Too bad. Btw, WDET has streaming. I capture Liz Copeland into iTunes every night and listen in the morning on the way to work. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 733 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.60.177.56 |
I'm listening to Big River right now. Under Judy Adams, music like this would NEVER EVER EVER have gotten play on WDET. Just more euro-centric music. I pledged this year, the first time since the excerable Caryn Mathes told me Walter Reuther gave the station away because he knew nobody wanted to hear about labor issues. Get over it. Get over it! Bandyke and Adams are gone and GOOD! | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 2706 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.47.100.44 |
I guess I was never really loyal to Martin Bandyke or Judy Adams. Sometimes I would remember liking their substitutes better because they did bring in different music, but again I heard stuff on WDET that I would never hear anywhere else. I trusted the station's staff to be that much more knowledgable than me to bring me new music. I can't begin to tell you how influential WDET has been to me in regards to buying new music. And while I'm sure if you listen to a person long enough they will play certain artists (Bandyke & his Los Lobos, Adams and her Metheny & Hendrix), but they would still bring out something fresh every now & then. Those were the moments I lived for- I would quickly scribble down the time I heard a song I liked and would check to see just what artist it was that struck a chord with me. I'd either call up and ask or check the playlists online later and would probably dash off to buy the CD. What saddens me isn't the news content (it's wonderful), it's just that there are less chances now in this town to hear more diverse music now. During the day I've switched over to listening to internet radio just because I do want to hear music and not more news. It's just much easier to work to music as opposed to a discussion on politics or some other news topic no matter how important it may be. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1001 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
WRCJ (90.9) plays jazz in the evening also, if you want something different. | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 3749 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.40.111.105 |
Oldredfordette, I know you are a big supporter of the labor movement. If you have any connection to union people over at Wayne State, ask about WDET's business manager Marla Stone. I know you won't like what you hear. And DRM, thanks for listening. Believe it or not, those of us laid off were the lucky ones. To hear what my friends and former co-workers are now putting up with, a skeleton staff, convicted criminal at the helm, serious fiscal problems...the six of us laid off were the lucky ones. | ||
Wazootyman Member Username: Wazootyman Post Number: 53 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 71.65.15.68 |
I'm surprised at the amount of ripping on Judy and Martin I'm seeing. I listened to their programs frequently while at work, and can credit a couple of dozen CDs on my racks directly to their shows. The last pledge drive before Judy was gone I sent $120 with a note stating exactly that fact. I have a friend who did the same thing. All through my years at MSU, I managed to send in $60-120 each drive, despite being quite poor, because I listened to the web stream daily. I think I'm mostly annoyed because I don't see nationally syndicated news programs as a fraction as unique as WDET was. Not to be overly dramatic, but I don't feel the pride I used to about the WDET magnet on the fridge, the t-shirt in my closet, or the "WDET Live" CDs on my rack. Even if the stuff they played was repetitive, it was different than anything else on the radio, and I liked it. I also remember the days of listening to Chuck Horn's electronic music program from 10-12 on Friday nights, or Chris Felcyn on Sunday mornings (he's now on WRCJ). Chuck now has a program from midnight until 5 am on Sunday nights (or Monday morning, rather), but who the hell is even going to listen then? I didn't pledge this spring, because there's very little I listen to on the station anymore. Ed Love is great, but I find the jazz mix to be just as good on WRCJ, and after a while it all sounds the same anyhow. I bet they'll be at the DEMF next weekend, even though I'm not sure why they bother anymore. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 927 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.221.93.11 |
It was adult alternative music, which you CAN find on the FM dial. Bandyke is now working at an adult alternative station in Ann Arbor. If you like that format, fine, there was a small, dogged bunch of you, but the numbers were dwindling so severely that they had to do something. If the station was so great, why did it suffer such an abrupt downward turn after they went almost-all AA? As for labor issues, I have just two words for you Jelk: Judy Adams. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 2632 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.167.58.162 |
Sorry about the set back Jelk : ( I am curious. Is there an inventory of what exactly was embezzled? Wouldn't that have to be filed to get the indictment? I'm saddened to see all this befall WDET. I am a long time supporter, even a day sponsor this year, and donated to the very first pledge drive ages ago. I have seen WDET go through these turmoils before. Nonetheless, I will continue to support it because, even wounded as it is, it still beats anything on radio for me. In someways WDET has become a victim of its own fundraising success. It grew its staff and facilities and shook off its volunteer charm. The flow of swag, tickets, in kind donations and the like corrupted staff. Maybe leaner management and less fund raising time would be a better course. Personally I think Coleman should 'fall on his sword' - quietly announce retirement for 'health problems' so he could 'spend more time with his family' or whatever. As for music, I take my pick of every kind of music via shoutcast.com. | ||
Jimg Member Username: Jimg Post Number: 599 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
What bothers me most is not the format change - as Lowell pointed out, 'DET switched formats at least twice, once dumping the daytime jazz programming - but the indifference to Detroit music, which hasn't been a focal point for years (Willie W excepted). Radio is a pretty cold business, Jelk, and I hear what you're saying. 'DET survives because people care and it sux to lose someone who cared. And to retain someone who maybe isn't the best example of a leader... | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 3750 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.209.158.117 |
For the record, WDET's fundraising success is a myth. The average major market public radio station raises about 40% of their revenue from listener donations whereas WDET requires upwards of 70% from individual listerners. Where does that other 30% come from at other stations? Major grants. Something WDET could take advantage of if Coleman bothered to go out and hire a development director. As for volunteer versus staff people, bias aside, I have to disagree. You cannot hire a volunteer reporter with the chops of a Quinn Klinefelter, Joan Silvi, or Jerome Vaughn or volunteer music hosts that put the effort into preparing and constructing their shows like Liz Copeland, Chuck Horn, and Ed Love do...and Jon Moshier did. Nor could you find a volunteer to recruit other volunteers with the dedication of someone like Suzy Bjorkland. Her talents will be sorely missed at WDET. Bank on that. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 740 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.60.177.56 |
They just cut off their webstreaming in mid-story. My god. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 741 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.60.177.56 |
and then it came back on. Who is at the controls this morning? The message said no more music streaming. Does this mean no Liz Copeland stream? | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 2509 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 72.25.177.194 |
For $10 per month, you can buy XM/Sirius with hundreds of commercial-free music/news/sports/weather/traf fic stations OR you can throw more taxpayer $$ at one station, bilk the public (individuals & corporations) further with fundraising for one station, and put up with silliness in return. But don't feel bad, you're not alone. Every major city in the country still has one of these dinosaurs, courtesy of your tax money. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 933 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.221.93.11 |
Riiiight, and commercial enterprises NEVER have such problems with corruption, eh? Karl, look up the history of payola in the commercial radio business. As in, 50 years ago, and today, with all the settlements being paid by large radio corporations. Then get back to us. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 2512 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 72.25.177.194 |
Of course there's corruption and always will be in both the public and private sector. But this is taxpayer-funded corruption for an operation that duplicates hundreds of stations that operate privately, are much more efficient in the entertainment they deliver, and are readily available to all. But it is your choice, support it as much as you wish and keep the blinders on - there's nothing on taxpayer-funded radio that justifies the cost - and before you point out individual programs, rest assured that if the demand is there, they will immediately be picked up by other stations if and when "public" radio is shut down. The National Endowment for the Arts is similar, but your tax dollars hang on the wall instead of coming out of the speaker. De-fund them both and let the free market work. Many poor artists - visual & audio - float to the top if they are good and ultimately become successful. Supporting mediocrity (and corruption) with taxpayer $$ is wasteful & silly, both have long outlived their usefulness. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 934 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.221.93.11 |
Taxpayer-funded -- do you realize how little of WDET's budget is provided by Wayne State? Especially compared to WUOM and other stations? Let the free market work. Sure, look what the free market did to commercial AM and FM radio. Do you listen to it? It's driven by the bottom line and it's awful, and they are bleeding listeners by the year. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 2518 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 72.25.177.194 |
Pffft - you're right - they're bleeding listeners to yet another, better alternative. Once again, it is the free market. The "old" AM/FM formats must improve or fail. XM/Sirius is the new challenger - and charging up front, no less - a HUGE risk in terms of investment in infrastructure, marketing, etc but seems to be paying off because we all want improvements - and are willing to pay for it. Willing or not, we are forced to prop up operational silliness like WDET. We support XM/Sirius only if we wish to partake. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 935 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.221.93.11 |
I love XM and Sirius, and I fear that the "free market" will do the same thing to them that it did to AM/FM. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 744 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.60.177.56 |
The same people who over-programmed and narrowed radio are pushing satellite radio as an "alternative". No thanks. I'll support WDET despite the blips and listen to internet radio when I'm home. The free market devalues everything it touches. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 936 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.221.93.11 |
You have to hand it to commercial radio when it's good -- I do. Satellite radio is a joy. I just have seen the commercial marketplace ruin radio, so I'm going to enjoy it for the limited time it lasts. Can't take Internet radio in the car. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 841 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.90 |
If I'm not mistaken, you can get NPR programming on XM radio... | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 2521 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 72.25.177.194 |
The free market continues to evolve, and will always offer new and better alternatives. It is only when the govt tries to meddle that things get bogged down - "public" radio/WDET/Wayne State/NPR/etc are all examples of the silliness. Advertising pays for radio, listeners support advertising, etc. So if you can get an advertiser to support a station by convincing him that everyone will buy maximum amounts of his product without advertising on the station, that is utopia - assuming all listeners like everything on the station. So once again, you start over - all classical? Rock? Talk? Sports? Now, more listeners - cost of advertising goes up. Advertisers want more time for their buck, cost goes up more. A "vicious" circle that gets folks thinking - and in this great country then coming up with even more ideas to improve. AM radio > FM radio > more variety > XM/Sirius radio > MP3 > better & better............ | ||
Jimg Member Username: Jimg Post Number: 600 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.220.142.7 |
There seems to be a deep well of volunteers, and volunteer co-ordinators too, all of whom love 'DET. Before Suzy there were other folks deeply devoted. That's why public radio survives. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 5802 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.236.198.22 |
Ah, but the BEST is live local music, relflecting the core dynamic of the neighborhood. Your path leads further and further from this ideal, so I must not tread one step upon it. 'Specially when it yields yet another 'service' that costs money when it used to be free. Seems that service is to find one more way for us to spend $12.95 per month, or $19.95 per month...or whatever it is that we'll spend on average without thinking twice about it. I'm going upstairs to play my guitar... | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 2640 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.167.58.162 |
"You cannot hire a volunteer reporter with the chops of a Quinn Klinefelter, Joan Silvi, or Jerome Vaughn..." That is true ^, but then one has to ask when and why did WDET get into the local news business along with other expansions? Once it does choose to expand in that manner, it creates an unsustainable bureaucracy with ever increasing needs for fund raising days and cozying up to advertisers. It is well known that bureacracies have the tendencies of self-perpetuation and growth. Suddenly there is needs for more personnel, nicer offices, etc. Suddenly the volunteer amatuers become an embarrassment and an inconvenience to an attempted slickness; they don't fit and their programs are tossed. Arbitron becomes the ruler and we end up with a public station that is, de facto, a commercial station with an increasing stream of ads, just less interruptive. As a long time contributor, it has irked me to no end to hear how this or that program is brought to us by this and that business with rarely a tip of the hat to the real donors [the 70% Jelk mentions]. I have long suggested something like, "This show is brought to you by the donations of our listners with a paltry addition by this or that company." If the listeners give 70% then 70% of the ad time should mention that. Saying 'thank you' has a funny way of making people feel appreciated and ponying up again. On the other hand, as it now shown, the pursuit of non-listener revenue has led to corruption. I personally enjoy the WDET local news but not at the cost of crashing the station and interminable fund-raising sessions. Time to get lean and mean again. They got the easy second part down; let's see them do the hard part. Sorry for all the good folk like Jelk who got run over by this mess, but it goes deeper than Michael Coleman. And bring back the volunteer shows. | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 3751 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.208.233.74 |
Gannon uses the key word...LOCAL. Terrestrial radio will survive and thrive when the bean counters realize it is local content that distingushes traditional radio from XM/Sirrus. Local music, local music hosts, local news, etc. I can give you traffic and weather for anywhere on the planet from this here computer, what's going on at City-County Building? I got to be there for that. But as Ricky Roma famously said: "It's not a world of men...it's a world of clock watchers, bureaucrats, office-holders..." | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1502 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
That is the same logic that brought about the demise of the hardware store, general store, regional department store, etc. The bean coutners actually realize that you can get 80% of the people through pre-programmed commercial schlock. And in so doing you can cut your costs in half. Don't blame the corporate bean counters -- if blame must be placed, blame it on the drones that we call fellow citizens that are willignt o sacrifice localized and regional content and identity for slightly better (actually not better, just more) consumption. | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 3752 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.208.233.74 |
I won't disagree Dabirch, as Murrow said of McCarthyism, "Cassius was right, The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves..." But when you own one of those hardware stores, general stores, regional department stores, radio stations, etc. one would think your last, best course is to target your resources toward that 20% of the population not wowed by Applebees. That should especially be true in a business like radio where a 5% market share makes one a millionaire. I mean trying to compete head on with Home Depot on the price of Hardiboard isn't a winning business model for the proverbial local hardware store owner. (Message edited by jelk on May 22, 2006) | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1503 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
Agreed Jelk. That is what local radio must also do. The downfall of most organizations is in realizing that they can't compete head to head. Local radio does not exist. There is a nice niche to exploit if you want to, but most organizations or investors are not happy exploiting a niche. They would rather fight a losing battle against the megalith. Evolve or die... | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 3753 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.208.233.74 |
That's because exploiting a niche requires an investment, which is a concept short-sighted bean-counters waiting for their next free meal at the Aut Bar can't grasp. I look forward to hearing the teeth gnashing from the simpletons when their 401K goes belly up and their job is out-sourced to the cousins of the Asian co-workers they used to make fun of on the internet! Oh and to answer East_Detroit's comments earlier about my shots at Wayne State. I went to school there so I have first hand knowledge as to how the administration thinks about Wayne's mission...fill the parking lots with students, cash their checks, and pressure the faculty to pass them at all costs so they will come back next semester. At least that's how several faculty members described the administration. Wayne State's treatment of WDET reflects their management style. I mean these are the same retards who came up with the "state-of-the-smart" ad campaign. LET'S MAKE UP WORDS WE ARE A UNIVERSITY YEAH! (Message edited by jelk on May 22, 2006) | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 746 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.60.177.56 |
While simeltaneously shorting said professors in wages and benefits. People my age and older still remember the golden age of Detroit radio, when local music rules the airwaves, local personalities gave us the music, many of those same people used their good taste (and fat lines of coke from record execs) to turn us on to a dizzying array of music. I think that is why we put up with Adams and Bandyke for so long - they gave us the illusion of the old days. When, in fact, every Paste Magazine comes with a CD that reminds you of the daily Martin, the music really not that unusual or original. It's the norm in hipper cities. However, I'm very happy to have my tax money go to public radio (and television and the National Endowment for the Arts - money very well spent) and my pledge money too. I liked Celeste Headlee's new show, it's a good alternative to the economic show on 91.7 (till the Splendid Table comes on!). The airwaves are free - still. I'm techno girl - I travel with my pod and a case of CD's. But sometimes you gotta turn the radio on, and sometimes you get lucky. I pay for enough things. Down with Satellite Radio! (besides. you'll all get hooked then they'll jack up the price. Free market, remember?) | ||
Mc5rules Member Username: Mc5rules Post Number: 169 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 148.61.97.101 |
As a Sirius subscriber, I gotta tell you that I'm not that crazy about space radio. The playlists are only slightly less rigid than terrestrial radio, so you still get tons of repetition. And there's not the wide breadth of music one might imagine. Generally it's better than regular radio, but not much. And I'm annoyed that it's another monthly obligation. I bought it for my wife for xmas, and she likes it, so we'll keep it. But I'm unimpressed. | ||
Treelock Member Username: Treelock Post Number: 122 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 24.192.27.161 |
I just learned jon moshier got the axe at DET and I'm seriously bummed. Because of moves like this, and relegating Liz Copeland and Chuck Horn back to the nosebleed shifts, I rarely listen anymore. It's sad. I agree with the comment someone made about not being able to listen to news programming while working. At work, I slip on my headphones precisely to get away from noise polluting coworkers. With that, let me make a plug for the 24-hour online streaming from KCRW in Santa Monica, Calif. Those of you who miss the aforementioned WDET hosts or even the occasional gems that Judy or Martin spun will be happy here. | ||
Ilovedetroit Member Username: Ilovedetroit Post Number: 2278 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 68.40.230.17 |
I for one liek the format changes. And he is hardly a criminal (misdemeanor). I donated and will continue to do so. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 733 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
"I for one liek the format changes." No offense, ILD, but you're a leaker. (Message edited by LivernoisYard on May 22, 2006) | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 607 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.212.169.194 |
I agree with Lowell.... bring back the volunteer programs, such as "Radios in Motion." I inquired a while back about doing such and was dismissed with a guffaw and a "we dont allow volunteers to run shows, unless you want to pay for the engineer, etc." I'm still pushing for it, however... so, we'll see. Meanwhile, I'm on the sub-carrier. Jelk, as for your slamming Wayne with the "Car college" comment, I think I see your frustration with the administration. As a grad student, my take on the comment is defensive in regard to its potential reflection on academics (with which I would disagree as being very top notch especially in some disciplines)... but the administration, yes, thats been a problem. | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 3755 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.208.233.74 |
East_detroit, I think we've been talking across each other but your last post sums it up...it's the administration. My experience with the Wayne State faculty was positive but they are hindered greatly by the administration. The same is true for WDET. There are many talented, dedicated professional radio people's abilities at WDET are being hindered by Wayne State's lack of vision administration. As for volunteers, find me a volunteer that can cover city hall as well as Quinn Klinefelter, find me a volunteer that can cover the auto industry as well as Jerome Vaughn, find me a volunteer willing to do 25 hours of first-rate overnight programming like Liz Copeland, find me a volunteer local host for Morning Edition that was as reliable and dedicated as Craig Fahle was for nine years, and then I'll agree with you all on volunteers. Good luck! ILD, I like the programming changes as well. I don't like Michael Coleman's inability to manage the business side of the station. It has cost people jobs, hindered local programming, and may result in an exodus of talented staff still at WDET. And if you don't think his crimes affects WDET's financial situation, then you were born yesterday. Finally, oldredfordette...the dismal treatment of Wayne professors has bled over to WDET. Wayne State has put its hired goons in place (Coleman, Stone, Ovshinsky) to build a staff so docile and cheap that Wal-Mart will be jealous. | ||
Jimg Member Username: Jimg Post Number: 601 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
Jelk, before about 1984 all airstaff except Judy A, Zola and maybe one or two others were volunteers. News, except for interns, were paid as were the admin folks with airshifts (Judy A included). And the station had a really interesting and (usually) professional sound - in my opinion. Moving to a paid staff was done partly to further separate the station from the 'community radio' tag. | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 3756 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.208.233.74 |
I stand by my original opinion about volunteers versus professionals. I'll add that I think once you go to paid staff you can't really consider going back. As Mark Harris' Henry Wiggen once said: I was taught in school that slavery went out when Lincoln was shot. Although that background information does provide some insight into Harvey Ovshinsky's role in the WDET staff cuts. Coleman/Wayne State want a way to run the station without paying it's employees and they figure Ovshinsky can show them how to do that since he at WDET in the pre-1984 days. At the end of the day, he may be the dirtiest of that rat squad. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10107 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.37.236 |
As my momma used to say "Stupid is as stupid does." Why would you EVER take a volunteer position for a radio station? It's not as if it's helping the needy, it's simply giving "The Man" free labor. There is a name for that, and it was outlawed many years ago, it's called slavery. Time to move on, fuck free radio, stick a fork in it because it's done. We now have to pony up $10 or so a month to get decent music, just like we have to with tv. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3388 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.79.112.43 |
One of the most lucrative contract jobs currently available is to teach Indians or Chinese, American dialects. Already McDonalds has been experimenting with taking orders from a central location far from your drive-through to save labour costs, combining several locations into one call center. I recall my reading of Vonnegut's first novel Player Piano, it's frightening how his vision of Fordism describes our current society which he described in (correct me if I'm wrong) 1952. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 609 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.212.169.194 |
Supersport, actually there are volunteers who help the needy. http://www.wdetfm.org/dris/ | ||
Toolbox Member Username: Toolbox Post Number: 913 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.184.29.148 |
Because you love music. You do not need to be helping the "needy" to make a difference in your community. See it as helping the people who want good music. If you listen to some of the radio stations you would think Metallica had no albums before the Black album, Deep Purple had no output after Smoke on the Water. You don't hear music like Bela Fleck, Ashley MacIssac or Moev on commercial radio. High school and real college radio is a good place to see community type radio these days. Reanimate Dave Dixon. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10109 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.226 |
If you wanna help people wanting to listen to good music, give them the $10 or so for satellite radio. Air wave radio is dead. I'm just bitter that it has come to the point I have to pay to listen, I just haven't made the transition yet. As for college radio, not since "The crazy 80's" on modern rock 91.5 at CMU, hosted by our very own "Hoog," has there been anyone worthy. lol | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 3758 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.40.111.105 |
This reminds me of Supersport's tear-stained blog entry about the Rescue Mission. A regular Bishop Sheen, that one. | ||
Cinderpath Member Username: Cinderpath Post Number: 1 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 69.245.249.149 |
Well I for one miss the old WDET before the format change, and how they walked a lot of the great DJ's out the door is rotten. I used to love 'DET. It was the only place on the dial in Motown that played great music. The daytime talk is a bore, and a rehash of what I can hear on other NPR stations. It was a refuge in a world of talking heads, experts and pundits. I and my company did not donate in the last fund drive. Its funny, they asked listeners to call and voice their opinion about what they thought about the new format. I called, told them I was unhappy, miss Martin Bandyke, Moser,et,al the old crew, that I would not be donating anymore- I was hung up on. 'DET is now lame, and is becoming as homogeneous as McDonalds. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 766 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.60.177.56 |
Jeez. If you have a computer (and I think you do) find Radio Paradise. Get iTunes and find your favorite music from the thousands of internet radio station. Make CD's for your car (and if that's not enough, you are driving waaaay too much). | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1073 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.122.204 |
We now have to pony up $10 or so a month to get decent music, just like we have to with tv. I will never pay for either radio or TV. Never. It's just not worth that much to me. Besides, I usually have better things to do with my free time. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5564 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.71.67.248 |
Oldredfordette. Thanks for the Radio Paradise suggestion. I've been listening almost non stop since yesterday afternoon. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 763 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Being a 5-string banjo picker/sometimes fiddler, I get my fix of plenty of free bluegrass/old-time fiddle tunes streaming, 24/7, sans commercials, with Winamp. FM radio?--what's that? Who needs it? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 764 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Jams: "One of the most lucrative contract jobs currently available is to teach Indians or Chinese, American dialects." I do some of that using Skype to de-accent a number of Koreans in Asia. However, I'm not getting wealthy doing that although the pay isn't too bad on an hourly basis. |
