  Bpjeff Member Username: Bpjeff Post Number: 9 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 198.185.18.207 |
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060519/BUS INESS04/605190369 Metro Area residential construction down almost 50%, but up 16.6% in Detroit. January - April. | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 62 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.141.144.2 |
i feel like that's sort of an old story. I remember back in KK's state of the city address, he touted that figure big time... it's not really a good thing, though... if the region is doign poorly, then so is detroit... | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 671 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.42.176.123 |
It's an update to a story. Yes, it was big news that Detroit led the region in buildind permits last year. This story showd that the trend is continuing. with th additional info that the burbia sticks are being hit hard. It may not be a good thing, but at least the COD isn't taking the brunt of the beating for once. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1547 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.221.35.117 |
I have to say this is good news. The only bad news is that we are clearly still in the mindset that says new construction and sprawl = good economy. SE Michigan economy sucks, relatively speaking. But we aren't suffering by any means. If it takes this sort of speedbump to slow sprawl, I'll live with it. Detroit's housing market is clealy robust enough to overcome the prevailing economy, so that is excellent news. | ||
Alexei289 Member Username: Alexei289 Post Number: 1148 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.61.183.223 |
"The city of Detroit remains the bright spot of the region with a 16.6% increase in building permits for the first four months of this year. Last year, for the first time in more than two decades, the city recorded more new residential units than any other community in the metro area" Amazing... how out of that whole article.. with Detroit being the only standout INCREASE among every other big area in the region while everywhere else sux... that it is just barely mentioned... almost like "lets hide this under the covers before anyone gets any ideas about Detroit growing".. maybe im just cynical.. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1548 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.221.35.117 |
Oh I agree. I had to scan the article a few times to find mention of the city. | ||
Alexei289 Member Username: Alexei289 Post Number: 1149 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.61.183.223 |
its just that they never even interviewed anyone why Detroit is a standout increase... never did any investigation into why Detroit isnt following the trend of the rest of the region... | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 201 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
The only reason building has declined in Clinton Twp is because there is no more vacant land to build on. You should see how its changed in the last 16 years, it was so peaceful and open and green around here, they have built on every open spot they could. They have ruined it. Strip malls sit vacant, homes sit vacant, but they just HAD to build them. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 367 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 69.220.142.7 |
Alexei289, I agree this story is written terribly. A bunch of Detroit player-haters!  The new home construction slow down in the suburbs is simply supply and demand. The industry has built WAY TOO MANY HOUSES in a region with little population growth and a lagging economy. My bet is that Detroit is doing well because it's on the sweet side of supply and demand. After decades of little new constrcution in the city it is finally being built and with the new demand for urban living in Metro Detroit and little supply in the city, it's no wonder that Detroit is getting a housing boom. IMO, the main thing holding Detroit's back from an epic housing boom is the lousy SE MI economy. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3763 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.11.154.56 |
Actually, this is good news for the metro in that it is reducing sprawl (i.e. not stretching resources too thin), and consolidating resources back to the center, however small the turnaround may be. If even it's not growth for the region, housing growth does not a healthy economy make. As has been said, all of this housing growth without population growth is irresponsible in that it is unsustainable and just plain wasteful. | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 631 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.214.106 |
What was so different 16 years ago? How have "they ruined it"? 16 years ago, Clinton Twp was a sprawling suburb with new strip malls and subdivisions popping up on every corner. Nothing has changed in Clinton Twp over the last 16 years. Clinton Twp has been building strip malls and subdivisions at a steady pace for 30 years. Did you really think that they would suddenly stop 16 years ago? Your lament over the loss of the "peaceful, open, green spaces" really confounds me. Your post makes it sound like this new development destroyed acres of pristine nature and park land. You memory must be cloudy, becase 16 years ago, most of the open land in Clinton Twp had been clear cut for new development. For the sake of clarity, which developments really "ruined" the "peaceful, open, green spaces" in Clinton Twp? Was it the development of the NW corner at Garfield and Canal? 16 years ago, there was an old house on that corner, completely surrounded on all sides by subdivisions, gas stations, and strip malls. Was it the developments at 18 and Garfield? 16 years ago, Garfield was filled with fast food drive thrus, strip malls, gas stations, and very little open land. However, the NW corner of 18 and Garfield was a clear cut "beautiful, open, green space" filled with weeds, devoid of trees, and featuring a beautiful sign that said "Will build to suit." This "peaceful, open, green space" was complemented with a row of drive thrus and quickie oil change shops across Garfield, and a Rams Horn, BK, and large strip mall on the same side of the street. This "beautiful, open, green space" was also complimented by the subdivision abutting the rear of the property, and the gas station located across 18 mile. 16 years ago, most of the land along Canal and 19 mile had been developed into subdivisions, condos, and apartment complexes, but there were still some open lots along Hayes. Was it the infill developments on Hayes that "ruined" the "peaceful, open, green spaces" of Clinton Twp? ------------- I apologize for my harsh comments, but anybody that moved to Clinton Twp looking for "peaceful. open, green spaces" is an idiot. The people that are now moving to Canton Twp or Macomb Twp for these same reasons are also idiots. If you are seeking "peaceful, open, green spaces", you should move to an area with large lots, vast park land, and a more rural setting. I'll end this post with some free advice for the suburbanites seeking "peaceful, open, green spaces." DO NOT move into a booming suburb and expect the development to suddenly stop after you move in. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 203 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
how about the land where the Meijer sits on 15/Utica, used to be a small airport, how about the houses on Moravian and Utica, used to be a farm with horses.......when I moved here there was no 7-11 on Utica and Moravian nor was there a strip mall behind the small bar, which has now become Baraboos, nor was there a Mcdonalds, oil change place and an Arbys on 15 and Utica....so dont tell me where I moved wasnt open and peaceful 16 years ago.... there was plenty of open fields and farm houses and nature surrounding my home........and this is part of the reason I am moving to 11.5 acres outside Charlevoix, no neighbors, no cement, no noise. (Message edited by miss cleo on May 21, 2006) | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 204 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
btw, I dont live in a *sub* in clinton Twp, I have a 1/2 of land, you have no idea how peaceful and quiet it was here 16 years ago, the traffic and noise has increased along with new development every frickin year, and those *must have* new stip malls sit empty....dont tell me I dont know what has happened in MY area the past 16 years sheesh! | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 1999 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.2.148.109 |
So the problem was not you moving there, but so many other people moving there? | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 205 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
when they destroy a horse farm and put up more houses than needed and strip malls that still sit empty after a year...yes! They built way more than needed and destroyed open land, they have saturated every last spot of open land On my street, there used to be and acre or so between houses and places where it was open for 5-8 acres, we had hawks and deer and other wildlife....a developer came and and put a gajillon tiny houses in so close together you can reach out your window and touch your neighbors house. Same developer forced us to go to city water and sewer when we were fine with our well and septic. All the things they have built have not improved my quality of life, they have brought it down with increased noise and traffic and people....6 more weeks and I am gone! | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 2485 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 68.230.22.99 |
Miss cleo, why didn't you or your family buy up the land like the developer did, and keep it as you would have liked it? Perhaps when your own family's home was built there were others who thought you were intruding - houses, wells and septic tanks disturb others, you know - even if it is just the "hawks, deer and other wildlife." To avoid it happening again in your next location, I suggest buying the land around you, all the way to the horizon. | ||
Ilovedetroit Member Username: Ilovedetroit Post Number: 2277 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 68.40.230.17 |
This is a good news story - typical Detroit bashers finding something wrong. Have you considered the fact that people just like the city and what it is starting to offer (more jobs, downtown entertainment, restaurants)...I was at a dinner part last night in Bloomfield Hills and was pleasantly surprised to hear that the hostess has decided to sell her condo and look for a condo in Detroit. She is interested in Garden Court or IV Manor. She wants the excitement of downtown, with the diversity - she is tired of plain old condos filled with rich divorcees in Oakland Co. PLUS it is closer to work for her at FMC. I think metro Detroiters are realizing that it is not such a big ole scary place as they have brainwashed to believe for many years. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 206 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
Perhaps when your own family's home was built there were others who thought you were intruding - houses, wells and septic tanks disturb others, you know - even if it is just the "hawks, deer and other wildlife." Thats just stupid as it can be applied to EVERY home ever built and I guess we didint buy up all the land cause we are not rich and it wont happen in my new location, trust me | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 2003 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.2.148.171 |
oh, right... because you are not a sheep, and nobody else is moving to Charlevoix. Seriously, have you considered Kansas? | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 209 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
spout off about things you know nothing about, makes ya look real smart. Homework and research has been done.....I will not have to put up with noise and people like I do now.....thank goodness | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7436 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
I wonder if the people in your new city are going to be annoyed about new people moving in and adding to the congestion. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 2498 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 68.230.22.99 |
Well be careful, Miss Cleo, because you already said "it" - referring to your intrusion - "can be applied to EVERY home ever built" I hope you mean that you're now rich and bought up all the land around you. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 210 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
I am a mile in off the main road, I have 11.5 acres, I am in an association that limits building......., the home is already built, there are no other homes around me, I am intruding on no one. You guys can be real assholes.....and the only *congestion* around there is from VACATIONERS like yourself . You can keep spouting rubbish all you want, you know nothing about it. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7437 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
Hello pot, I'm kettle. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 2503 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 72.25.177.194 |
Usually the rich don't just come out and call others a-holes when they realize it all just comes down to money. Congrats that you now have (bought) your own piece of paradise. BTW, if you read your own words from the beginning of this thread, you sound rather naive and silly. Jt1 - LOL | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 211 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
I am no asshole, I dont pick apart what other people are happy about. I dont try to tell them that where or how they want to live is wrong. You love the city? more power to ya, but dont take away from what makes ME happy.you are the silly ones, spouting off and making assumptions about something you know nothing about. I am done on this thread, its usless to debate with people who are not informed | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7438 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
Pure comic genius. Nearly every post of yours is spouting off about how horrible Detroit is. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 2508 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 72.25.177.194 |
Miss Cleo said: "a developer came and and put a gajillon tiny houses in so close together you can reach out your window and touch your neighbors house." Then Miss Cleo said: "I dont try to tell them that where or how they want to live is wrong." Miss Cleo said: "They built way more than needed and destroyed open land, they have saturated every last spot of open land" Then Miss Cleo said: "you are the silly ones, spouting off and making assumptions about something you know nothing about." Miss Cleo said: "You guys can be real assholes" Then Miss Cleo said: "I am no asshole, I dont pick apart what other people are happy about." Miss Cleo said: "we didint buy up all the land cause we are not rich" Now Miss Cleo says: "I am a mile in off the main road, I have 11.5 acres, I am in an association that limits building......." Time for Miss Cleo to say: "Hello, Betty Ford...." | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 212 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
Pure comic genius. Nearly every post of yours is spouting off about how horrible Detroit is. but I dont tell you you are going to ruin it and you shouldnt live there do I? I am entitled to my opinion and I dont like city living, big deal Karl, take your prozac, you are comparing us buying multiple lots on my street 15 years ago to us buying a new home on acerage today? okaaay | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 2511 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 72.25.177.194 |
No Miss cleo, I'm simply saying that 15 years ago, you were poor, and today you're now the developer - you are wealthy enough to buy the land and do with it as you please - a right you & developers had in this great country 15 years ago, and thankfully for you, you still have today. Good luck with your new acreage, and try not to encroach on the wildlife and your neighbors any more than the construction of your new home, the road & your cars going in and out, and your general intrusion on the environment already has. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1563 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 68.248.11.200 |
I think most people forget that there are open, beautiful, green spaces in most major cities. They are called parks. Many cities also have at least several neighborhoods where you can buy a house on a large lot. In Detroit and its inner-ring, nice-size backyards are pretty prevalent. Even living on a 50' wide lot, within a block of a thoroughfare and the border of Detroit, I have found plenty of that 'peace and quiet' right here in the city. Sure its not the utterly remote and completely natural peace that I have experienced so often in a more wilderness setting up north, but I can appreciate my backyard, my local park, etc. I live in a pretty urban setting, but every night it becomes very quiet (despite living by a major road), and the rabbits and the racoons and what not come out here south of 7 mile just like they do up on 22 mile. And there are deer on Belle Isle just like in Rochester Hills. And I see more pheasant and now even hawks, and other birds, in my neighborhood then I do out in the country. I think most people have a hard time putting themselves at ease in an urban setting, and most people in this area also have a hard time grasping a sense of place, and dealing with small spaces, and hence our sprawl patterns--mile after mile of ranches or mcmansions on 1/2 acre parcels. It is a crock to think that there is a more natural experience or more quiet settings in Canton as compared to Dearborn, Troy compared to Utica, etc. Yet people keep moving to the edge thinking it's more peaceful out there or something. Well, everyone else is doin' it to, and the congestion and pollution from the traffic follows. I have not yet even touched on the clear fact that the sprawl caused by people looking to the edges destroys the nature that appealed to people in the first place, nature that was often used in marketing of the place. People will buy condos because there is a nice forested hillside or a pond or a pasture across the way; whelp, the same company you just bought from is going to build low-density housing over there and pretty much remove the trees and the pasture. And when all of this is happening in a region that is not experiencing an overall population growth, and that already has an oversupply of houses (and plenty of abandonment in the center city), this is plain IRRESPONSIBLE. People need to start looking harder at what is 'authentic', and if they are looking for nature and peacefulness, they need to stop assuming that it correlates with how many miles away from the city center you are. (Message edited by mackinaw on May 22, 2006) | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 2517 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 72.25.177.194 |
Well said, Mackinaw - Your last sentence passes over something, though - valid or not, if folks don't feel they are safe and their kids are getting a good education, they'll continue their search for something better. Image in these areas is as important as meadows, ponds, forests, etc. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1565 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 68.248.11.200 |
Image is really important, and so is education. The safety thing often has stats to back it up, and you and me have jousted over that, but I say that this too is usually an 'image' issue. You want to live in a place where you 'feel' safe. Well, even Grosse Pointe just had a murder. Bad stuff can still happen even in great places to live. I think a lot of people with kids might want to live in cities but don't even do the research to see if it a possibility. I believe it is possible in many cases to save a bunch of money on housing by buying an older house in the city, and using those savings to send children to private schools and invest in the house, rather than buying a mcmansion in a lily-white school district. Raising kids has everything to do with the parents instilling the correct values, but I think that complementing this with raising them in a diverse urban setting will help a child to be more acquainted with reality, and have greater cultural awareness. But since urban living has some challenges and uncomfortable moments, most people will exchange all of this to live in a place which is not diverse and not beautiful. What really boggles me is when young couples or single folks are living in condos in sprawling areas. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 377 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 69.220.142.7 |
Mackinaw, you fail to mention the #1 reason people avoid Detroit and anything close to it. I don't even have to say what it is. Everyone who lives in Metro Detroit knows. People who move to sprawlville, far from Detroit, don't hate neighbors they hate very specific types of neighbors. That is why the old white folks are heading for the hills and the young white folks are heading for the city. On another note, it's great to see Detroit leading the region in new home construction, but I have to say that I wonder exactly how much of the new housing is affordable/low-income (i.e. SUBSIDIZED). I see a lot of the affordable stuff being built. I sometimes wonder if the old houses in the city are just wearing out, hence the surge in demand for affordable housing, hence the lack of population growth in the city. Think about it. We are experiencing a housing boom and population loss simultaneously? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Unless the new houses are simply replacing torn down ones and families of five are being replaced by families of two. And yes their definitely is a loft boom going on, but the new lofts are adding very minimal population to the city as a whole, with most units only occupied by 1-2 people. And on top of that, Didn't Detroit tear down 2,000 houses last year? And how many permits were issued? I think it was less than 2,000. Can someone confirm? | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 378 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 69.220.142.7 |
Um. Mackinaw. I don't know how to break this to you but.... the young and single Republicans and need condos to live in too. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 213 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
A *park* doesnt compare to acreage to me. It might get quiet where you live, but here, I can hear my neighbors radio at 3am (even though they have been asked to turn it down repeatedly)and they are 1/2 an acre away. I am woken up by passing cars with the bass turned up so loud I can hear it in the house with the windows shut. Urban settings have nothing to offer me. Deer on Belle Isle doesnt compare to having them in your own yard. We hunt, fish, canoe, hike and now I dont have to leave home to do it. Keep bashing country living and I will keep bashing city living cause we will never agree. Good quality of life means different things to different people. I dont want to live on a *lot* I dont want to see or hear my neighbor, I dont want to go to a *park* to enjoy green space, I want to be surrounded by it, my choice! | ||
Dag Member Username: Dag Post Number: 217 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.211.222.62 |
Misanthrope, get the Heidegger outta here. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 380 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 69.220.142.7 |
Miss Cleo, where the heck do you work? Are you gonna commmute to Metro Detroit from Charlevoix??? | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 381 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 69.220.142.7 |
And where the heck is Charlevoix? (In this neck of the woods it's a street that intersects with E. Grand. ) | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3361 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.79.82.213 |
Miss_cleo If you want respect for your life choices, I'd suggest you respect other choices. I've lived in a tiny hamlet in PA, surrounded by State and National Forests, bears foraging through my garbage, deer in my front yard, etc. It was a wonderful place. But I came back to Detroit, and live in an urban area, that I love very much. Both life experiences were part of my life, and I can't choose which was better. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 382 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 69.220.142.7 |
Ha ha!! lol! Those wannabe suburban gangsta's actin' wild in the townships! That's hilarious! I live in the middle of the dreaded "urban environment" that you speak of and it's peace and quiet all night long! | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 214 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
My husband got a great job out of the Auto Industry in East Jordan, it will only be a 15 min commute vrs the 45 min it took him to get to work down here. I do respect peoples choices to live in the city, but you spend an awful lot of time here bashin the burbs, turnabout is fair play no? ( I dont like the burbs either) Charlevoix is near Petosky, about an hour from the Mackinac Bridge. This will be an awesome lifestyle change, so much less stress and aggravation for my husband. No more worring if the company is going under, we went through 4 buy outs at his last job....and he got out just in time cause his old company has cut pay and stopped 401k matching etc, etc.and its looking like they might close all together........at his new job in East Jordan, he will be making more money, unheard of Up North, but true in our case. So I am excited and happy for the move | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 383 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 69.220.142.7 |
Actually Miss Cleo, that sounds like a great opportunity. Good luck. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3362 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.79.82.213 |
I hope that "you" in that statement was not directed at me personally. I made my money mostly from travelling to the suburbs throughout the Metro area for my assignments. I've been in some incredible homes in the suburbs, and have no animosity for those people's choices. It's taken years for even my family to understand and agree with my preference for living within the City, but I enjoy very much their choices of suburban or semi-rural areas when I visit them. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 215 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
no, not you personally, just generally. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1566 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 68.248.11.200 |
Eastsidedog, you'd be suprised how many Republicans love big cities and how many liberals live in suburbs. Haha but anyway, I was just saying that its seems like way too many young college grads (if they stay in this area), choose to live in sprawl-settings. Thankfully this is starting to change. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 384 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 69.220.142.7 |
Mackinaw, many people I work with who are without children live in deep into suburbia and live in condos, apartments, etc and I know many of them to be conservative. City residents on the other hand are definitely left leaning for good or for bad (many are flat out socialist). But you have a point. My aunt is a bleeding heart liberal and lives in RO. And a neighhbor on the next street over (in Detroit) sports a Bush '04 bumper sticker on her truck! I agree with you that these young folks are missing out on city life. When you're young is the best time to experience city life (the diversity, the interesting people, art, music, culture, density, uniqueness of place, and other attractions). I've spoken to one co-worker who is married with children who wishes she had experienced living in a big city when she was younger, she mentioned Kansas City (?) - not exactly Detroit, although she realizes that Detroit offers much of what other big cities offer and she's always excited to talk to me about the city. I tell her it's never too late. There's many empty nesters that move in to the city! | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 385 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 69.220.142.7 |
Mackinaw, you wanna see how many Democrats there are in northwestern OC? Go to one of their meetings. 5 people will show up. No bumper stickers. No shirts. No lawn signs. Very disorganized. I know. My in-laws went and were shocked! Now they want to move to Troy or RO. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 216 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
anyone wanna see my new house? | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 2524 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 72.25.177.194 |
Sure Miss Cleo!! | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1569 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 68.248.11.200 |
These sorts of dilineations will probably break down even more over the next generation, Eastside. Most cities have a pretty diverse crowd, even in terms of political affiliations. Detroit doesn't. It will be more like other cities 15-25 years down the road, though. | ||
Apbest Member Username: Apbest Post Number: 65 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.40.65.66 |
it is true that most big cities with economic power (ie NYC or Chicago) have affluent economically powerful areas that tend to be conservative, but it is undeniable when looking at the spread of any popular vote that nationally the most centrated blue areas are cities or urban areas. Urban areas have diversity (economic, ethnic, and racial) which tends to accompany more progressive ideals. NY, LA, Philly, Boston, etc etc all more liberal than surrounding states, even true of places like Atlanta in the south | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3777 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.11.154.56 |
Mackinaw, I disagree with your opinion on Detroit politics not being diverse. You've got quite a bit more spread in ideologies than you'd think, regardless of the D or R they profess. I can think of quite a few more liberals cities, quites a few more Democratic strongholds...socially conservative Democrats make up the biggest voting block in Detroit, with the rest (still pretty sizable) pretty evenly split between socially conservative Republicans, and liberal Democrats. Funny thing is that as much as the cities demographic has changed, the politics haven't all that much. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 217 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
needs painting, but thats about it | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3374 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.250.174.70 |
It looks very nice and seems to suit the lifestyle you prefer. May you enjoy it. I'd show you the 2500 sq ft home in Detroit I'm working on purchasing. Brick, 3 story, 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, 2car brick garage, with an asking price of $60,000 in a nice neighborhood but I prefer to limit the competition. And that will fit the lifestyle, I prefer. Can we just celebrate the diversity of choices we have? | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 218 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
yes we can, thank you and good luck with your home | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1571 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.221.77.142 |
Lmich, I won't disagree on what you said about much of Detroit's democratic base having a conservative lean. In your opinion, would Republican's who genuinely reached out to urbanites (obviously someone other than Bush and DeVos) have a shot at getting over 20 percent of Detroiters? | ||
Bpjeff Member Username: Bpjeff Post Number: 10 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 198.185.18.207 |
I am a new resident of Detroit and have an economically conservative "lean". In the past I have generally voted Republican. I think over the next few years there will be more of us as my neighborhood, Brush Park, continues to grow. As for the governor's race, I am undecided. Granholm has not done anything over the last 4 years, but I am afaid that DeVos in beholden to the westside of the State and is too socially conservative. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 2546 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 72.25.177.194 |
Miss cleo, it's a mansion - very nice, and looks like the paint will last more than a little while. Congrats - the 11.5 acres will ensure peace and quiet too. Uh, good luck on that driveway in the snow - I hope it came with a plow! Now about my upcoming visit..........BTW, is this still a Lutheran household?? | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1575 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.221.77.142 |
Charlevoix and the surrounding hills/countryside is really beautiful, you'll enjoy that. Bpjeff, very interesting comments. I agree with your assesment too. I'm sure a lot of the fresh blood in Detroit will be liberals as well, but the wildcard in making Detroit a little more Republican is for the party to reach out to conservative minorities who always vote Democratic. There is quite a social conservative strain out there among Latinos and African Americans. What we need to start this transition is, at least on a local basis, a charismatic candidate with some crossover appeal, who will of course deal with urban issues. I would like to think Keith Butler will do this. We shall see. And a question to those who want to carry on this political side-topic: do you think K. Kilpatrick is an economic conservative? I think he is in some important ways. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 219 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
lol, I meant the paint on the inside. The association we are in plows right up to our house so that wont be a problem........ | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 2552 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 72.25.177.194 |
Mackinaw & Bpjeff, As conservative African Americans will tell you, they are "delighted" that the Democratic Party equates being black with being gay - both should be equal in the eyes of the civil rights crowd, at least on the Dem side. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 395 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.8 |
KK is definetely economically conservative, he has cut spending and not raised taxes (with the exception of the garbage fee which actually cuts taxes for the wealthy). Coleman raised taxes many, MANY times. | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 67 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.141.144.2 |
as someone who would call himself "very liberal" - in common terms - socialist - I don't think that detroit would benefit AT ALL from raising taxes. the poor are already strained enough taxwise, and the rich would only have more reason to leave... my point here is that taxes are already high as hell... kwame not raising them doesn't make him economically conservative, but rather, not a *complete* idiot. (he's still a regular idiot) | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 403 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.8 |
Andylinn, you still have to give him SOME credit in light of the budget crisis. He has proposed cutting taxes many times (but he NEVER mentions the income tax). Still, I'll believe it when I pay it. Sorry this is getting OT... | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7455 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
I thought the income tax was getting cut in small increments over the years. Anyone know the situation? Also since I don't know I thought someone could help answer this. What taxes can KK cut. The mil rate is set based upon specific taxes. Can he cut those as he wishes (along with CC approval) or does the service have to be cut as well. I assume that debt obligations must stay or can the city find other ways to pay off the debt obligations and deducts those mills from the tax burden. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1577 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.218.79.65 |
Andy, I credit you for recognizing that lower taxes are a solution for our city. Detroit's problems have brought you, a socialist, and I, definitly not a socialist, together, and that is really something. Jt1, I don't have an answer. What I'm wondering is what Quicken Loans employees paying income tax would do for the city coffers. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7461 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
Depends - Many people that work in the city manipulate the income tax. There are very easy ways to avoid paying it and I suspect that happens in many cases. **The city income tax only applies for days that you worked in Detroit. Often used clause. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 404 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.8 |
Jt1, in recent years the city income tax has gone from 3%/1.5% to 2.5%/1.25% (residents/non-residents). It began under Archer/Engler and it actually was Engler's idea - he guaranteed state-revenue sharing would remain fixed as long as the income-tax was gradually lowered to 2%/1%. Granholm cut state-revenue sharing to Detroit because of the state budget crisis and in response Kilpatrick stopped scaling back the income tax hence it has been 2.5% for several years now (please someone correct me if I'm off). This is still way better than the early 80's when Coleman Young, with voter approval, bumped the income tax from 2%/1% to 3%/1.5% (Yikes!) to solve a budget crisis (sound familiar?). Let's just be thankful that Kilpatrick hasn't proposed raising it to 4%/2%! | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 405 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.8 |
Jt1, many employers don't even deduct city imcome tax. Borders never did until they opened the store downtown. So you could live in the city and work at a Borders in the burbs and pay no city income tax. My experience has been that this type of thing is extremely common. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7467 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
But the employees are required to file city income tax and pay even if the employer doesn't deduct it. Goes for the other cities with an income tax as well. Those people may want to be careful they don't get hit for late fees and fines in later years. Of course the city is so out of order that it probably won't happen but they are still responsible to pay even if their employer does not deduct the money. Thanks for the info on the current income tax. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 407 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.8 |
Jt1, No problem. It's no secret that it's easy to dodge the city income tax.
Are you serious? No chance. NO CHANCE! I pay my taxes like a respectable citizen. But there are tons of people who skirt the system, which is too bad. The tax collection in the city is deplorable. Fixing the tax system in Detroit is more important than anything, even tackling crime in the city. If the city has more funds it could fight crime much better. So how about that new construction being up in the City of Detroit? | ||
Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c Post Number: 751 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.76.202.10 |
About a year ago, I got a letter from the City of Detroit Income Tax Department stating that I did not pay my 1999 city income tax. Of course I had, and faxed them proof. Within a few days I received a letter stating they had corrected their records and thanked me for my cooperation. Point is: SOMEBODY, SOMEWHERE was paying attention! | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1578 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.218.79.65 |
Not just new construction, Eastside, but all building permits are up, so it includes rehabs and additions. This number will grow again, perhaps drastically, in 2006-7 with the East Riverfront becoming a new focus for building activity. (Message edited by mackinaw on May 24, 2006) | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 410 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.8 |
Eric_c, I stand corrected. So no one responded to my question in an earlier post. How much of this new/rehabbed stuff is affordable housing (i.e. SUBSIDIZED)? And how many houses were torn down last year vs. permits issued? Anyone have this info? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7472 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
There is a fair amount of affordable housing. I believe the work being completed in North Corktown has earning limits. The new places built between Cass and Second on Peterboro(?) are availabel based upon income. There are definitely some pricey new builds but the lower middle class and poor are not being completely left out of the new housing market. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 411 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.8 |
Jt1, In previous post I wondered if the the housing boom might be a result of old housing finally wearing out thus the housing boom. I mean, how is it that there is a housing boom and population exodus going on simultaneously? It just doesn't make sense unless Detroit is losing a lot of existing housing. I can personally attest to the fact that two large houses have burned down in my neighborhood in just the last two years. One was a rental, one was vacant. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7474 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
ESD - There are a number of factors. Much of the city has older housing stock and a good deal of the new homes being filled are from Detroiters moving. Some communities are people from the suburbs and some are mostly Detroiters moving into newer homes with better amenities. I also believe that the inward migration is by single people, retirees or married couples with no kids. The outward migration is families. The net is a loss. One thing to consider is how much of a boom this really is compared to the total housing stock. I believe that Detroit has about 350,000 housing units within the city. I can check SEMCOGs numbers (although those are estimates). So over the last 2-3 years what has been built? About 3-4 thousands units. Three thousand units still represents less than 1% of the housing stock. By Detroit standards it is a boom and it is great to see. By normal standards this is nowhere near a boom. It has to start somewhere but the total percentage of housing stock indicates it should be business as usual. It is seen as a boom because the city went so long without any new housing. Just my 2 cents and much of it is nothing more than my opinion. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 412 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.8 |
^Jt1, I've heard this arguement before and I think you're absolutely right. But it still seems wierd to have a "housing boom" as people are moving out at a rate 1,000 per month. I guess calling it a boom is purely relative (did you know that in 1985 not ONE building permit was issued in the city of Detroit!!!). Besides most of the existing housing stock will outlast the new stuff in the long run, as long as it's maintained. Most of the the old houses and apartment buildings in the city are built amazingly well. As long as as the roof stays intact and the elements are kept out they last forever. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1724 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
Not hard numbers, but from what I've seen, a big portion is low/moderate income housing. Most is subsidized in some way if you count the NEZs. Those are not necessarily equal. There really isn't a growth in Detroit housing, but diversification and improvement. It seems that many neighborhoods with quality housing are improving, and many areas are experiencing growth in housing (downtown/midtown especially) where there were vacant land/buildings. But there are also a lot of areas that are slowly emptying out of people that are able to upgrade to a better situation in the burbs. I think it is really the same process that the region has been seeing for about 3 decades (more housing is being produced, even though there are not more households). The difference now is that much of this new housing is being produced within the city limits, which was mostly not the case except for a number of heavily subsidized mega porjects. Another thing that I believe is hitting Detroit hard is certain demographic shifts: 1. Old folks are passing away. 2. Households are getting smaller (especially since many families with kids avoid living in the city). 3. Groups that are getting larger in the city are either more transient (young people and college students) or less trusting of authorities (Latin and middle asian immigrants). These groups are less likely to be effectively counted. But I don't doubt that population is declining. That doesn't worry me much as long as the city is also shifting towards a place that people want to live, with a sustainable tax base, and a more representative sample of the metro area population. |
