  Wilus1mj Member Username: Wilus1mj Post Number: 64 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 216.111.89.3 |
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/a pps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2006 0517/REG/60517002/1016 | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 988 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
This is awesome news. | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 602 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 192.122.250.250 |
Now when do we get to see people working? That's pretty exciting | ||
Boshna Member Username: Boshna Post Number: 131 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 71.227.103.29 |
Skipper's rule | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 39 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 35.8.144.6 |
Great news!! I am assuming the Detroit Commerce building will be demolished to make room for the parking ramp? | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 5887 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
Yes and we've already has this conversation about what a shame it is that 150 has to come down. Not that that will stop us from re-affirming our position that, yes, it is a shame that 150 has to come down. | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 40 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 35.8.144.6 |
Yes, it is a shame, but to get the BC Hotel renovated, I dont mind the trade off. | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 662 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 194.138.39.55 |
Nice try, ItsJeff, but I doubt it'll work... | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7413 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
Too bad the city officials hate preservation. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 665 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.42.176.123 |
I would not have too much of a problem with sacrificing 150 for a parking garage that would make both the BC and Lafayette viable. However, that comes with the stipulation that the garage has ground floor retail and is aesthetically pleasing, i.e. 1001 or Opera House garages. Both of those features were confirmed as part of the plans when this was talked about on this site last winter. This is great news. My gut tells me the June deadline will be met this time. I can't wait to see work starting on that building. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 375 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
Pictures of 150? | ||
Sknutson Member Username: Sknutson Post Number: 576 Registered: 03-2004 Posted From: 67.114.23.202 |
Its a shame that 150 has to come down. Has this been discussed before? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7414 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
Stupid anti-preseervation city. Knocking down 150. They should at least save the footprint and turn it into a park to remember the history. How can Detroit advance if we keep knocking down our history. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 666 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.42.176.123 |
Here's one pict of 150 or also known as the Detroit Commerce Building. There are more in the archives.  | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1821 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.105 |
Last time I checked the only way to advance is to get rid of the historic ways of doing things. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7415 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
NDavies - My post was purely sarcastic. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1659 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.215.246.97 |
It would be great if we could save every building. However, the reality of the situation is that we do have to sacrifice one building in order to save another one, from time to time. We're not alone in this one. Chicago, St. Louis and every other major city have had to do this at one point in time or another. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1660 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.215.246.97 |
Ah, I had my sarcasm detector turned off. In that case, please disregard the above post. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 667 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.42.176.123 |
Besides, if Skulker couldn't knock down buildings he would go crazy. | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2466 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 130.132.177.245 |
JOKE 1: naw it's just that the BC has more friends than the Commerce building ... ... and with friends like these, who needs ... | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 5889 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
OMFG! When exactly was Fnemecek replaced by a pod???? | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2467 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 130.132.177.245 |
JOKE 2: check the Commerce Building offa the city's hit list: Madison-Lennox Statler Commerce Tiger Stadium MCS Ford Auditorium Cobo Arena Joe Louis Arena Globe Cass Tech United Artists AAA ... (Message edited by rustic on May 17, 2006) | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1661 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.215.246.97 |
Last Thursday. The real Fnemecek is on vacation at the moment. He'll be back next week. | ||
Llyn Member Username: Llyn Post Number: 1534 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 68.61.197.206 |
Well, Ford Aud can go any time... | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2114 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.24.99 |
Rustic, and that's just the first 11 off that "top secret" 100 list.... | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2468 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 130.132.177.245 |
scroll up ... the list grows as we speak ... | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 97 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.33.56.156 |
i just don't understand it--with ALL of the empty space---why tear down 150???---doesn't make sense | ||
Nellonfury Member Username: Nellonfury Post Number: 149 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 68.43.156.135 |
About time the Book Cadillac is finally get a make over and the BEST part is ..... NO DELAYS!!! | ||
Andyguard73 Member Username: Andyguard73 Post Number: 52 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 64.25.200.14 |
Speaking of the Lafayette, are plans still on track for its renovationsS? | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 669 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.42.176.123 |
Jjw: The answer to your question and the reasoning behind the demo were discussed in a thread ad nausem last winter. Do a search for Book Cadillac in the archives and you'll find it. | ||
Jeff Member Username: Jeff Post Number: 2 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 209.69.49.34 |
When I was in Indianapollis I saw an interesting parking structure. They took the facade of the building and enough space for pedestrian traffic and turned the rest of the building into parking. Kind of like the Michigan but this looked like it was done by a professional. I hope you all understand what I'm trying to say. I didn't have a camera to take a picture. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1710 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
True(so I won't get into it), but I still fundamentally disagree with it. To many public sector and NGO building, planning, and Economic development activities in Detroit see themselves in a bubble. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3738 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.197.28.31 |
Since we're still making issue of the Commerce Building, I'm still disappointed they couldn't creatively fit a verticle, automated garage (i.e. Merchant's Row Garage) on the surface parking lot DIRECTLY ADJACENT TO the Commerce Building. It would require some kind of tunnel through the Commerce, but it's something that could have been done, albeit, at a higher cost. So, any criticism of bringing down the Commerce for the Book and Lafayette is still valid, in my eyes. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 172 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 24.192.25.47 |
Just because a building exists doesn't make it historically significant or requiring "saving" | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3741 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.197.28.31 |
I agree, but I didn't say that anywhere in my post. Historic preservation aside, the building could easily be reused, as it's not in terrible shape, and reuse should always be considered. In this case, there is literally a surface lot directly adjacent to the Commerce, that could be worked out in such a way that the Commerce wouldn't even need to come down. Problem is, it would raise the price of the overall BC project. The fact remains that this isn't a case where a building just has to be brought down because of lack of space for parking. The BC has quite a few lots directly in its vacinity that could be built upon if the developers of the BC and/or the Lafayette were willing to pay more for the parking aspect of the redevelopments. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1168 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.60.143.186 |
The commerce building isn't an incredibly stunning building. Just because it is old doesn't mean it is great. We went over and over the posibilities and none of them worked out financially so we are faced with the demolition of one not so great building in order to save two really great buildings. Pretty much a win if you ask me. Plus you know with how much skulker hates building we had to appease him the destruction of at least one building. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1713 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.212.42.214 |
I agree that it is not worth saving for another building. But in my book, almost any building is better than a parking garage. | ||
Rbdetsport Member Username: Rbdetsport Post Number: 96 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 68.61.11.146 |
If it is a garage like the 1001 Woodward garage, then I believe that that is better than an abandoned building. Plus, it has to have ground floor retail because of what CC passed. | ||
Andyguard73 Member Username: Andyguard73 Post Number: 53 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 64.25.200.14 |
Does anyone know if they tear down the commerece building will the garage replace it and the surface lot next to it, or will it simply replace the building and will we end up with a parking garage next to a surface lot? | ||
Broken_main Member Username: Broken_main Post Number: 1102 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.222.11.226 |
I am wondering if there will be retail in the parking structure. Does anyone have the details of the entire project?? Time until completion?? | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3742 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.197.28.31 |
Doesn't Detroit now require any new parking structure, within a certain zone, to have ground floor retail unless there are other circumstances that would make it almost impossible to do? Again, people keep saying that all old buildings aren't worth saving, and I completely agree with that. But, in this case, it has nothing to do with historic preservation, and everything to do with bringing a building down that doesn't necessarily have to be brought down. It's not like there isn't enough empty lots around the BC and Lafayette. It's simply asking the developer to be a bit more creative, and do a bit more to fend off a needless demolition. Again, it's not as if there are no other empty lots around these two buildings that a parking garage could be built on. What it seems to be about is the current trend that parking MUST be directly adjacent to a development. Go look at aerials of this area at Terraserver. It's already been discussed. | ||
Alexei289 Member Username: Alexei289 Post Number: 1136 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.61.183.223 |
... its got more to do with $$$ than anything... if your budget is 175million... with SEVENTEEN layers of financing... you better not go over it... obviously removing that building is the cheapist way to getting this done. Chances are they are building the garage to cash in on parking space once the lafayette gets done, as well as the kenedy square building... | ||
Apbest Member Username: Apbest Post Number: 61 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.40.65.66 |
in regard to Lafayette (not to send the thread in a different direction)the Peebles group website indicated that work was still supposed to start this summer, especially in BC stays on track, I dont see any reasons why we should expect delays considering Peebles good tract record | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3745 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.197.28.31 |
Who's expecting delays on the Lafayette? With all I've said, I'd still be willing to tolerate the loss of the Commerce/People's Outfitting Building for a revitalized B-C, and I'm sure most would to. I'm still sad to see a building that could be saved (if even for a bit more cost) be lost. | ||
Andyguard73 Member Username: Andyguard73 Post Number: 54 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 64.25.200.14 |
Thanks apbest. Lmich, he was responding to one of my earlier questions. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 5891 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.213.167 |
I'm expecting delays on the Lafayette. If they continue with their original scheme of high-end condos going for over $200 psf, then I predict they'll have financing problems. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1777 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244 |
Itsjeff you are always so negative. Try to be a little more positive please. | ||
Crew Member Username: Crew Post Number: 955 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 146.9.52.18 |
If someone else mentions a parking garage with first floor retail I am going to scream. | ||
Esd Member Username: Esd Post Number: 9 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 160.109.103.190 |
Parking garage with first floor retail! | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 670 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.42.176.123 |
All of the parking garage questions are answered on this thread. https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/62684/61752.html | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 828 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 209.104.146.146 |
I want a parking garage with first floor retail and second floor lofts. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 829 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 209.104.146.146 |
Any chance they could use the shell of the Detroit Commerce Building to create the parking garage? | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4147 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.173.154 |
Yeah Right! That's what KING KWAME and Ferchill told all of us since last year. If I see any construction going on at the Book-Cadillac Hotel, then I would believe it. | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 3740 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.42.65.36 |
Umm...I know you are a dumbass and all...but even you should have noticed the construction going on at the B-C over the last two years... | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 422 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 35.12.18.234 |
Jelk-- The remediation and interior demo work, though certainly necessary, can only be called "deconstruction." | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 5892 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
Salvaging the facade of 150 through a facadectomy would cost an additional $6 million to the budgeted $17.8 million. If any one has $6 million + 20% for over runs, please call the DDA immediately and give them the money. That $6 million includes discounts for a facade easement donation. | ||
Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c Post Number: 742 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.76.202.10 |
Jeff, you did it wrong! How many times do I have to tell you?! Show them full price, THEN give 'em the discount! Noob! | ||
Alexei289 Member Username: Alexei289 Post Number: 1137 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.61.183.223 |
where are u comming up with 6 million? to hold cars that building would have to be completely destroyed from the inside... with the outside still standing... thats ALOT of engineering work... They would be better off just removing the outside facade... then demo the building and reuse what was left of the origional building to make it fit in... but for a parking garage.. a whole new building will have to be built, regardless... | ||
Toolbox Member Username: Toolbox Post Number: 910 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.184.29.148 |
That $6mil IJ mentions would be in addition to the $17.8mil for the parking garage. So instead of the cost being 17.8mil for the garage alone now add 6mil to keep the current facade on the deck for a grand total of $23.8mil. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 5893 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
What Toolbox said. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1716 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
I actually don't care much about putting historic building makup on a parking garage pig. I'm irritated at the loss of a perfectly good building (that happens to be irreplacable, even if it isn't particularly remarkable) to build parking. This parking wouldn't be needed if there was strong leadership for transit 5 or 10 years ago. Anybody (or group) that claims to be working to revitalize downtown isn't doing much unless they are also working to improve transit. Transit created downtown, and it can't be revived without it. Unfortunately, many people that work really hard at economic development, financing, and marketing, believe that transit isn't their issue. It is. | ||
Alexei289 Member Username: Alexei289 Post Number: 1140 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.61.183.223 |
Id rather see a parking garage with some 3d dynamicism, and something to stand in front of to block the wind when lighting a cigarette than an open series of parking lots... that if your lucky have trees in them... | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3753 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.11.154.56 |
Jeff, since you know how much a facadectomy would cost, what would be a base cost for a demolition the building the size of the Commerce? Also, at 500+ cars, how much would a vertical, automated garage run in the parking lot right next door to the Commerce Building (i.e. where Kline Drug Store was)? | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1616 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
Jesus Lmich, since you're the one pushing for an alternative to the current plan, why don't YOU do the homework and find out how much that shit would cost? Good Lord - this is all good news, let it go. It's just another abandoned building in a city full of abandoned buildings. | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 45 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 35.8.144.6 |
There is love abound in this thread. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 831 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 209.104.146.146 |
Dial4hipster...the 'good enough' mentality is why Detroit is in the state it is today. People have said for fifty years, "Hey, it's progress - it must be good!" However, different development has different positives and negatives. We should try to maximize the number of positives. Isn't there a lotto winner on the site who can come up with $6 million for this facade/garage project? | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1617 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
1953, first of all, I was in no way saying we should settle for "good enough." Personally I think it's GREAT and not much of a tradeoff, all things considered. My issue was primarily with Lmich asking everyone else for all the info to bolster his/her arguments. If you can't even be bothered to do your own research, why should anyone take you seriously? Also, this was all hashed out on the last thread about this. Of course, like the Statler threads, this discussion will probably be a blight on this forum until the new structure is actually full of cars. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 5899 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.213.167 |
Lmich, I'm not an engineer or a construction worker (I was actually the cop in the Village People) but from talking to people close to the project, the $6 Million number includes all the extra costs AND cost savings and tax incentives. I have no idea what the base cost is to demo a building but I imagine that each building has its own set of problems. Whatever it is for the Commerce Building, I am sure it is somehow factored into the $6 Million. I don't know how much an automated deck costs, again, I was the cop. But seeing as people don't seem to be in a rush to build them, I can't imagine they are any cheaper than a regular deck and they probably cost a whole lot more. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3755 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.11.154.56 |
Isn't the cop that was once part of the Village People an actual, real-life fugitive, at the moment?  Yeah, automated garages as obviously more expensive, but I'm wondering how much more? Looks like a have a research project to do... BTW, that was a pretty good response considering you're the cop from the Village People. Wait, did you just mention your the cop from the Village People? | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2476 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 192.131.129.140 |
naw the fugitive is Cecil Fielder not the cop .... .... hmmmm wait a minnit ....  (Message edited by rustic on May 18, 2006) | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2477 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 192.131.129.140 |
 | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 176 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 24.192.25.47 |
Using a facade from an older building is actually more common than some people think (though it's not necessary in this case because this building doesn't raelly hold any historic or nostagic value) You can see here on the campus of Western Michigan University where Oakland Gymnasium, built in 1925, was torn down for an indoor practice facility. The street-facing facade was kept intact and a 2003 building was built around it. This was the first example I'd seen of this kind of "re-use"   | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 992 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
They also did a facade reuse in the former Welsh Auditorium in Downtown Grand Rapids, it is now and entrance to the large ballrooms in the DeVos Convention Center. | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 2532 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105 |
H&M in San Fran:  | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1149 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.73.202.124 |
Here's a pic showing the Book-Cadillac, 150 Michigan, and the Lafayette Building left to right. And Tubby's.  | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1613 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.215.66.87 |
Is the Commerce Building the only building coming down? It has a skywalk over the alley that is attached to another building. Will that building also be torn down? Also, what about the building directly north of the Commerce Building? Is it going to be torn down as well? I can't see a 528-space parking garage fitting just on the Commerce Building site. Is it possible? | ||
Wolverine Member Username: Wolverine Post Number: 157 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 24.231.201.120 |
Yes, it is possible for it to fit, but only the Commerce Building would need to be demolished, as well as the skywalk. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3758 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.11.154.56 |
I'm wondering if the garage will expand all the way to the corner where the current surface lot is? It would be hilarious if it only took the site footprint of the Commerce, with a surface parking lot next door to it so close to Campus Martius. lol I sure hope they take the parking garage to the corner of Michigan and Griswold. I wonder if they'll take it on to the Capitol Park frontage, as well? (Message edited by lmichigan on May 19, 2006) | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 667 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 194.138.39.52 |
I'm pretty sure it HAS to use the lot next to it to accomplish a 500+ garage without being 30 stories tall. I think in the previous thread, it was confirmed. Regardless, I think this is a WIN for downtown AND this section of the city. | ||
Crew Member Username: Crew Post Number: 956 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 146.9.52.18 |
yeah but will it have first floor retail? | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 673 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 194.138.39.52 |
yes it will. it is a requirement of the city. | ||
Crew Member Username: Crew Post Number: 957 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 146.9.52.18 |
...it a requirment of the forum anyway.... | ||
Esd Member Username: Esd Post Number: 11 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 160.109.103.190 |
Will it have a CheeseCake Factory? | ||
Crew Member Username: Crew Post Number: 958 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 146.9.52.18 |
The roof of the garage would make a perfect place for an ESPN Zone but I heard Majic Johnson is already considering building a theater there. | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 493 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 172.130.165.154 |
Anybody know the history of that skywalk on the north side of the Commerce Building? Did People's Outfitters expand at one time into the other building? Just curious. P.S. The Commerce Building with its irreplaceable terra cotta facade really does add important fabric and context to Michigan Avenue. In many cities experiencing revitalization, it would be a prime candidate for re-use. In Detroit though, its proximity to the Book Cadillac and the Lafayette dooms it. Its loss is a sad but fair trade-off for the restoration of these other two important buildings. | ||
Esd Member Username: Esd Post Number: 12 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 160.109.103.190 |
Perhaps another letter writing campaign is in order? | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 675 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 194.138.39.52 |
Naw, I couldn't get any guarantees out of the Cheese Cake Factory that they will open a restaurant in the City of Detroit. But you can write all the letters you like... | ||
Alexei289 Member Username: Alexei289 Post Number: 1146 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.61.183.223 |
Cant save em all... were saving the lafayette... and the book cadillac.. but losing the commerce building for a new structure other than a parking lot to replace it... Not a bad deal if you ask me... | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 267 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.236.160.226 |
House of Blues, PF Chang's, ESPNZone, Como's, Post on Broadway...where have you gone? | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3762 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.11.154.56 |
Crew, it is now a requirement of the City of Detroit, from what I've heard. |
