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Themax
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Username: Themax

Post Number: 3
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 69.246.123.118
Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've been to Chicago as a tourist and loved it. But Chicago has got serious race relations issues. Around half of the schools are segregated.
http://www.rethinkingschools.o rg/archive/18_03/expl183.shtml
So how much of Detroit's problems are Detroit's fault, and how much is the result of "other things" which you can't completely prove? I know years ago Detroit lost out on millions of HUD $'s because someone didn't do the paperwork. Did anyone lose his/her job over that? Or was there a subtle subtext that didn't really want to encourage more low-income housing in Detroit?
So how much is the City of Detroit's fault? I think that volunteering to clean up parks and mentor kids is great, but it doesn't really go to the heart of Detroit's problems.

Other Chicago problems for minorities:
http://www.suntimes.com/special_sections/black_middle_class/index.html

(Message edited by themax on April 30, 2006)
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 972
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What do you think is the heart of Detroit's problems?
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Thecarl
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Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 729
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.14.30.175
Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 2:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

themax...

you ask "how much of Detroit's problems are Detroit's fault..."

can you define the problems of which you speak?

you mention race relations, which certainly factor into a complex equation that defines detroit's situation.

you mention administration, access to governmental assistance, and a possible disconnect between the two - which corellates to irresponsible leadership, having lost valuable hud funding.

you say that civic involvement and approaching youth in the community does not "really go to the heart of Detroit's problems."

themax, i ask you: what is "the heart of Detroit's problems," as you see it?
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Themax
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Username: Themax

Post Number: 4
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 69.246.123.118
Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 3:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lack of jobs, poverty
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Themax
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Username: Themax

Post Number: 5
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 69.246.123.118
Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lack of jobs,poverty
http://www.npr.org/templates/s tory/story.php?storyId=4955488

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/sep2005/detr-s02.shtml
"
According to US Census Bureau figures released August 30, Detroit is now the poorest city in America, with fully one-third of its residents living below the official federal poverty level, a derisory $19,157 in household income for a family of four. Nearly one half of the city’s children, 47.8 percent, live below the poverty level."
(Message edited by themax on April 30, 2006)

(Message edited by themax on April 30, 2006)
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Czar
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Username: Czar

Post Number: 3040
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 72.49.166.173
Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 3:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's not just Detroit and Chicago. Most major Midwestern cities are segregated with troublesome race relations. Cincinnati had race riots 5 years ago and things still aren't much better down here.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 975
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit's in the process of re-diversifying its economy after the diffusion of the extremely concentrated auto industry boom

it's not an overnight process
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Chub
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Username: Chub

Post Number: 309
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.246.28.200
Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not surprised that Cincinnati's race relations arn't any better since the riots. As we know in Detroit, riots don't help anyone, they just make everything worse if anything.
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Thecarl
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Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 730
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.14.30.175
Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 4:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

lack of jobs




1. lack of diversification. when i think of midwestern cities that have thrived, i look at chicago, and CBOT/CBOE. chicago has a rich financial district. detroit? not so much. theater district? we certainly don't have the draw of broadway, or the allure of toronto's pantages theatre: we have the wistful memories of the michigan theater - an unimaginable expanse of lavish and artistic detail - which was trashed to create a parking structure for automobiles that crap above the seats where people were once stunned by performances and architecture. retail? hudson's was the largest department store in the world, now it's gone. mall of america is in minneapolis. then again, the music industry is on the rise - eminem, proof, dilla, etc.

2. labor. detroit has brilliant engineers, but if you want a part or product produced, it will cost you plenty. despite their production capabilities, unions will tell you how much, when, and of what quality your goods will be delivered. organized labor - uaw style - some twenty or thirty years ago, became recognized as a good ideal gone astray, offering ridiculous benefits and protections for a workforce that was largely contemptuous. i once witnessed an entire production line being shut down because a worker figured his supervisor was being "a dick" - and dropped his workglove into a gearbox that knocked a machine out, and stalled engine production at buick city. the nice thing about that, was that workers got paid whether the line ran or not. it was management's fault if they couldn't keep the line running, and that should have no impact on whether or not union workers got their "promised" wages.

we're seeing the "day of reckoning."


quote:

poverty




i define poverty as a household that cannot support itself. there are more factors involved than simply economic conditions. my dad grew up eating potatoes and fried eggs for years, because his family didn't have money. they lived off "the fat of the land." my dad's family didn't know their conditions were "poverty." why? because everyone was fed, and they got an education. my dad had caring parents, who didn't have a refrigerator full of beer and cartons of cigarettes. honestly, i've been to homes where people said they didn't have money to clothe their children, and the refrigerator was full of nothing but beer and cartons of cigarettes.

to this, i would say that much of the poverty i see in detroit comes from a mentality that expects "people should take care of me," rather than "i should take care of myself."
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3752
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cincinnati, a Northern City with Southern Exposure.

jjaba.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 978
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 6:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

$19,157 is 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year at $9.21 an hour (and doesn't include any benefit expenses) - minimum wage in Michigan right now is $5.15 an hour

many of the impoverished in Detroit are working, non-union, poor
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Cmubryan
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Username: Cmubryan

Post Number: 253
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.169.179
Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 9:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cinci is the "Gateway to the South"

Indi and Minneapolis are midwestern cities without typical "midwestern city problems." Is it because they are relatively newer cities that didn't have a focus on industry like other midwestern cities? Is it because their white population is very much the majority? Who knows.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4067
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.228
Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 3:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's what make Chicago tick. Chicago got it's population boom from the farming and mechantile exchages and its and the main manufacting source to our U.S. Ecomony. Chicago population by race is

46% white



36% black

27% Hispanics

11% Other

4%Asian

0.2% Native American and Hawaiian

Chicago city population is now 2,719,920. But it's now beginning to decline.








Since the 1850s, Chicago's Black community resides moslty on the famous " Black Belt" on the South Side until the great black migration to the north and west lured them here due to booming jobs. Restrictive covenents from various white communities kept black from buying any more homes futher into the north side. But they allow them to move futher down the south side. By the 1940s, thanks to the organized Jewish Communities. Lots of Black Chicagoans had migrated to the West side and the Jews hod moved to up the North and Northwest side. Today they are mostly at north and northwest side and filling the suburbs of Skokie and Niles.During the 1960s, The Chicago Housing Authority had installed some subsidized housing throughout the west side and the south side 30 years later most of the subsidized housing gave way to violent crime and empty promises from the alderman board So lots of Black Chicagoans had migrated further to the south and southwest suburbs. Chicago's black population had started to decline. Black flight from Chicago to the suburbs or " Dixieland" has begun.



After the boomtown are of the 1920s, The white Communities of Chicago had been spreading out through the city. When the great migration of black-folks moved into their south and west side neighborhoods they started to moved to north and northwest side and suburbs. However they know what's going to happen if the black-folks take over Chicago so they start to demarcate some the neighborhoods in the north side, suburbs and rest of Downtown Chicago. They didn't allow blacks into the suburbs of Cicero. That plan work unto this day. Chicago white population had been declining for the past 50 years, but from 1990 to 2000 the white population of Chicago is making a quick comeback, occupying up the gentrified areas with new housing, lofts and luxury apts with heavy security. Chicago remain predomitely white.



The Hispanics had arrived in Chicago sine the boomtown era if the 1920s. It didn fully had a full blown comunity until the 1960s but to more jobs. By the 1970s Chicago has it first Hispanic community located near the South side, all the way down to Pilsen (Little Village) community. By the 1980s, the Hispanic community quicky grew and a second community was established at the near north side and the third one near the East side community near the Indiana border. Now they are trying to make it way further to the south side preventing more blacks from buying any more homes in their area, that includes the north side. The Hispanics also fully took over the suburb of Cicero,too. Right now the rising violent crime in their community cause some Hispanics to move out of the Chicago neighborhoods and migrate to the suburbs or other cities. The Hispanic population in Chicago is now started to decline.

Chicago today is a very beautiful Downtown with skyscrapers that can touch the sky. The Sears Tower is now the #1 Tallest building in the U.S. and the #3 Tallest building in the world. Chicago has lots of diverse communities everywhere. Only 19% of Chicagoans are in poverty level and unemployment rate is 6%.

What makes Detroit tick: Detroit had become a popultion boom since 1910 thanks to the automotive industry and its and the main manufacting source to our U.S. Ecomony. Detroit's population is:

84% black

9% white

5% Hispanic

4% Other race

0.9% Asian

0.1% Native American and Hawaiian

Detroit's population is now 872,000 and it has been declining since the 1950s and its getting worse every day.







Detroit used to be predomdominately white for over 270 years. When lots of black-folks come to Detroit during the great migration of the north and south lots of whites in Detroit had tried their best to demarcate their neighborhoods in order to keep blacks out, but that didn't work. So when suburban spawl began, lots of whites quickly sold their Detroit home to moslty blacks and migrate to to any suburban communties and they took the jobs with them, too. Today Detroit's white population is still declining, however recent developments of lofts, condos and single family homes had lured some young generation white folks to the demarcated Detroit neighborhoods. The White flight in Detroit would gradually slow down by the next 20 years.



Detroit's black community had boomed since the 1970s. First their earlist community was at famous "Black Bottom" community in Detroit's lower east side. Their is another black community being set up at Conant Gardens and at the 8 Mile R.O. TWP. border until the white folks who developed the sub-divsions of Green Acres and Palmer Woods set up a " demacation wall" long Mendota St. to keep blacks out. Later lots of Black Betroiters expanded their community to "Paradise Valley" along Hastings Street until the all white Detroit city council wants the area demolish for a new I-75 Freeway, but that didn't stop them. By the 1950s, they has already migrated their communities throughout the west side thanks to organized Jewish communities and parts of the east side. By the 1970s to 1990s, while lots of white Detroiters acclerated their flight to sprawling suburbs, lot's of black-folks has explanded their communities throughout Detroit from the Detroit river to the River Rouge and from Outer Drive in the South west side to 8 mile Rd. Due to years to violent crime, political corruption, poor schools, some black Detroiter are fed up and they stared to migrate to other suburban commuties of Southfield, R.O. TWP, Lathrup Village, West Bloomfield, Farmingtown Hills, and Oak Park, Ecorse and River Rouge. Today 75% of the Detroit black communities are in shambles due to their lack of community togetherness. The Detroit black population has been declining since in 1990s. Black flight from Detroit to suburbs or to "Dixieland" has bugun.





The Hispanic community had been in Detroit for over 80 years. There once a Hispanic population boom back in the 1920s from The Corktown/Skid Row community in the near southwest side to West Grand Blvd. Until the Great Depression cause 90% of Hispanics to be repatriated back to Mexico and other Hispanic nations. Detroit had lost its chance for a good sizable Hispanic community to be formed. The Hispanic community continued to lay low in the " Mexicantown" district in Bagley St. until the 1970s when job opportunties cause a few Hispanics to come into Detroit. By the 1990s the Hispanic communities quickly grew by expanding its communities further in Southwest Detroit all trhw way down to Dearborn borders of the Rouge plants and some parts of the suburbs and downriver suburbs. Their is another Hispanic community just beginning to form in the "Warrendale" sub-division in Detroit's west side. The Hispanic population will continue to grow end expand in Detroit until their time is right to take over.

Detroit today is suffering from symptoms of DEMARCATION, XENOPHOBIA, SEGREGATION, ECOMONIC LOSS. for the last 50 years. Their downtown is a remanants of the Great Depression with little and no retail, 14% of Detroiters are unemployed and 34% of Detroiters are in poverty. Detroit is dire need of financial HELP. For if this city continues decline in population and jobs it would be in recievership. Causing lots of middle and low-income families in Detroit to slowy lose their properties to the recievers and corporate privatized recievers.
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 399
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 65.42.23.2
Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think a lack of serious leadership caused a great deal....

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