Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning January 2006 » Cutter Mackinaw in Detroit 4/20 for Final Stop « Previous Next »
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Awfavre
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Username: Awfavre

Post Number: 40
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 69.3.206.177
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The venerable US Coast Guard Cutter Mackinaw will be stopping in Detroit on her farewell tour before being decommissioned in June. She’ll be at Hart Plaza from 1 p.m. to 5 p.m. on Thursday, April 20. http://www.d9publicaffairs.com /go/doc/443/115477/
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1383
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 141.213.173.94
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the post. This is worth checking out and taking some photos. I've seen this boat regularly at its mooring in Cheboygan, and out in the Straits. It served the tall order of cutting northern Great Lakes ice for a long time, and its replacement which is now in Cheboygan is awfully sweet. This boat is bigger than you would think, so it will grab your eye if you're downtown on thursday.
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Solarflare
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Username: Solarflare

Post Number: 411
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 63.69.106.29
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cool. Thanks for the heads up.
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Track75
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Username: Track75

Post Number: 2309
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 12.75.22.9
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 5:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What will be done with the Mackinaw after she's decommissioned?
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1131
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 7:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WAGB 83 is supposed to become a floating museum up in her home port of Cheboygan, Michigan. Some funding still has to be set in place, but that's the current plan.
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 2490
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.167.210.27
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 7:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My uncle was an engineer on the Mackinaw in the 1950's. Back in the 90's there was an open house on the Mackinaw, so I took my uncle and son down to her dock in Cheboygan. My uncle was too feeble to come aboard so he stayed in the car but my son and I went on board for a ride out into the straits.

The Mackinaw is an icon in Cheboygan and was also a source of jobs and revenue for the community. Her funding has hung by a thread since the 90's and that open house was a event to rally public support. It looks like the day has come. Now that it has happened, it makes me wonder why she would come to Detroit; why they would spend the money, if they can't afford to keep it running? There is no ice to cut here.
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1132
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 8:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Life is often not fair, and the same applies to boats. Here is the Mighty Mac, a vessel not really well known by many Detroiters, one that few have ever set foot on, and not a vessel that carries passengers, yet she is scheduled for "retirement", a place practically assured, in her home port of Cheboygan. We all wish her well. She is a beautiful vessel, and has worked hard to keep shipping lanes open in the winter time and to patrol the Great Lakes.
On the other hand, here is the poor old Steamer Ste. Claire, once the pride of both Boblo and Detroit,continuing to rot away in Belanger Park. Now the City of River Rouge has filed suit to have her removed. At best, she might spend a little time in Ecorse, berthed next to her running mate, Columbia, but from there her final distination is neither retirement nor as a museum ship., She is headed for the scrap heap. Sad but true.
Somehow,I think, Federal dollars and private contributions will save the Mac. But not our revered Ste. Claire.
Yes, "life is not always fair", and it applies to vessels too.
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Sailor_rick
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Username: Sailor_rick

Post Number: 126
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 12.2.192.223
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 8:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the heads up.

As a "land crab" (a warm & dry one at that) I'd like to see what she looks like on deck & down below.

Many a times she busted us out of the ice, especially in Saginaw Bay.

My last few years of sailing on the Lakes, thick pack ice was minimal, global warming?

Nah, that's tree-hugging, anti-growth, fuzzy science.

L~ Good PR for the USCG, I'd venture.
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Sailor_rick
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Username: Sailor_rick

Post Number: 127
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 12.2.192.223
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

AGH! That's what I was afraid of Rock.

"The horror, the horror."

You'd hope somewhere, someone would realize it's irreplaceable, uniqueness of not just Detroit, but American maritime & social history -I don't care if it ended up as a floating Wal-Mart in Taiwan.

Anything's better than being melted into rebar.
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River_rat
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Username: River_rat

Post Number: 110
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 71.126.183.10
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 9:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The rock. How correct you are. It isn't fair, but then, what is when we talk about Detroit?

As a community, society, whatever; we have allowed an enormous number of treasures to go to ruin (Lowell's original - the Ruins of Detroit). Not the least of which are the SS Columbia and Ste. Claire, the last of their kind. I saw them last year, rotting away like much of Detroit. It would likely be far too expensive for either of them to be restored as a successful commercial venture. But is that any different than the hundreds of structures that our city has watched fall into worthless ruins?

Mourn their passing, understand that unless Detroit begins to find a way to bring back businesses and save our treasures there won't be a renaissance. Almost everyone of us knows the real reasons behind the problems of our city, but we can't rationally discuss them. Too many hot buttons.

At least maybe the USCGS Mackinaw will survive. Maybe Cheboygan has more sense than we do. The question of why the Mackinaw would come here is puzzling. Detroit shipping and manufacturing was dependent on the ability to keep the upper lakes open longer and the Mackinaw was the vehicle for the job. Now that we have less manufacturing we don't remember the ore loads to Zug Island late in the season from the mines in the UP - all due to the ice breakers.

the river rat mourns losing history
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2433
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From "Iron Fleet: The Great Lakes in World War II" by George J. Joachim:

"Another federally funded, wartime construction project that drew a less-than-enthusiastic response from the Great Lakes shipping industry was the building of the Coast Guard cutter Mackinaw. The decision to build a state-of-the-art icebreaker for the Great Lakes, with a price tag estimated at eight million dollars, was announced by the government on 20 February 1942. When the ship was launched in the fall of 1944, the total cost had risen to a whopping ten million dollars, over five times the cost of a standard freighter and two million dollars more than the cost of the MacArthur Lock. The ship was 290 feet long with a 75 foot beam - dimensions that effectively land-locked the ship to the Great Lakes - and was powered by diesel engines totaling ten thousand horsepower. Many ice-breaking innovations were included in the vessel's design, including a bow-mounted propeller that churned the water under the ice (to change its static buoyancy and make it easier to crush) and a heeling system that pumped water from one side of the ship to the other at the rate of one ton per second, thus allowing a rocking motion that would free the ship from ice. The Mackinaw would carry a crew of 12 officers and 164 other men.

The construction of the Mackinaw was a war measure, and the stated justification for its incredible cost was the need to extend the shipping season to the greatest length possible in order to meet the established iron ore quotas. The assumption was that the new icebreaker would be able effectively to clear a channel through the heavy, windrowed ice of Whitefish Bay and the St. Marys River in late March or early April, so that the industry would no longer be forced to wait for mild weather before beginning the season. There were those in the shipping industry, however, who doubted the wisdom of spending such a large sum on one vessel, pointing out that winter's grip extended over many places on the Great Lakes simultaneously and that "the centralization of facility in one ship [was] ill-judged and the enormous cost [was] extravagance."

Commissioned in the fall of 1944, the ship was available for duty at the end of the 1944 season. However, unusually mild temperatures allowed vessel operations to extend into December without the need for ice breaking. During the month of January 1945, the Mackinaw escorted three oceangoing cargo vessels, recently completed at Duluth-Superior, to Chicago, for ultimate delivery to New Orleans through the Illinois-Mississippi Waterway. Later that same month, the cutter escorted the brand-new auxiliary destroyer Donald W. Wolf from the shipyard at Bay City, Michigan, to Chicago for a similar trip down the Mississippi to New Orleans. During this time period, the ship also served as a special training vessel, hosting officers of the Russian Navy, who were observing operational procedure in preparation for the delivery of four modern U.S. Coast Guard icebreakers to our Soviet allies under the lend-lease program. The Mackinaw took part in ice breaking at the beginning of the 1945 season, but the unusually mild conditions again rendered these operations secondary to the natural disintegration. Thus, the overall contribution of the Mackinaw to the war effort was negligible."


SailorRick, I've noticed from informal aerial observation that the ice pack seems to be getting thinner every year, especially Lake Michigan. Looking at the ice charts, the heaviest ice this season, during mid-March, didn't come close to matching previous years:

March 13, 2006





March 27, 2003

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Sailor_rick
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Username: Sailor_rick

Post Number: 128
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 12.2.192.223
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 4:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mike,

Thanks for the "scientific verification" of my observations.

"Thinner every year", just like my hairline.
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1135
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 2:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

river rat ---Always a big challenge for those who try to save old historic vessels is that when the public outcry is finally felt and the quest for $$ is put into high gear, the ship, by then, is usually in deplorable physical condition and the financial cost is just too much.
Take the South American, a former Detroit passenger boat which holds many memories to a lot of folks (including me)in the Detroit area. I saw her leave for the last time from Detroit in '67 when she had been chartered for a trip ( "one farewell trip") to Expo in Montreal. A sad, chilly and rainy day. 100's. maybe 1000's, came down to the dock to waive goodbye.
But by the time the clamour was really felt to "Save the South", she had been rotting for several years in Camden NJ,listing to starboard, her decks collapsing in on one another, the Coast Guard in a fret that any attemps to remove here constituted a "threat to navigation" etc. She ended her days in a Baltimore scrap yard. Her sister ship, The North American, fared little better, sinking off Nantucket while under tow.
Thank God, there are some exceptions---the Keewatin in Douglas, the Valley Camp in The Soo, and the Mather in Cleveland etc. They have lived to see another day.
But I am probably not telling you ( and others) something you don't already know. I am just thankful that in the case of the Mackinaw, it looks like she will beat the odds.
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1136
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 2:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And it's good to hear from sailor rick who has "been there,done that", and also from our man in the cockpit, mikem. Wondered where you two have been.

One last note---if and when the Mackinaw does tie up at her proposed dock in Cheboygan, I trust you guys will join me in bringing along some white paint, and we will return her to her original livery! All white, that's how she should be remembered.
mikem is probably satisfied with the current red and white combination as it reminds him of NW.
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Island
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Username: Island

Post Number: 17
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 207.91.212.254
Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 11:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Went Thursday afternoon for the uncrowded tour of the open decks and the pilot house of the Mackinaw. Lots of CG Auxillary personnel helping out. One nice Riverfront Resident offered to take my photo with the Mac in the background for only $5! Said he'd take my address and mail it to me...
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Awfavre
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Username: Awfavre

Post Number: 41
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 69.3.206.177
Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 1:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I went, too. What a beautiful afternoon! I was stunned at how small & narrow the bridge was. I tried to take a picture of the Mac looking forward from the stern & got whopped by a flag. :-) She was just gorgeous.

Before I went down to tour her, the downbound steamer John G. Munson gave her a Master's Salute with her full-throated steam (I think) whistle that just echoed off the buildings Downtown. Beautiful.

This morning, the Mighty Mac left with a last blast of her horn, bound for one last tour stop in Sarnia, & then on (hopefully) to being a museum ship in Cheboygan.

Goodbye ol' girl.
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Billybbrew
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Username: Billybbrew

Post Number: 150
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 12:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

NO Steam horns anymore on the Munson, You'd have known it if there were. She had a very unique steam sound. Now she has huge air horns in her stack and it looks like gumby (not the forum gumby)
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Busterwmu
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Username: Busterwmu

Post Number: 241
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 24.247.221.241
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Munson got air horns maybe 4 season ago now. But they sure are unique as they are! Not high pitched "buzzers" but you can almost feel them before you hear their bass range notes.
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Ssport
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Username: Ssport

Post Number: 23
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 69.246.37.236
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 3:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Boblo boats should be sank. The Great Lakes is home to some of the best preserved ships in the world, due to it's fresh water and relatively cold temps. By sinking both ships it would at least allow them to be preserved for a few hundred more years and scuba divers to enjoy. That fate would be better than them being melted down.
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Sailor_rick
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Username: Sailor_rick

Post Number: 129
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 12.2.192.223
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 2:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sport,

Initially repulsive as sinking such irreplaceable vessels my be, you’re right; at least they would be given a proper “burial at sea” near their home.

Much better than being returned to us in the form of Hyundai’s and Chinese I-beams.

We could haul a few vintage Buicks and tail-fin Deluxe De-Sotos aboard. Cram ‘er full of what’s left of Tiger Stadium too.

Make it a Motor City underwater theme park. The” Incredible Aquatic Ruins of Detroit-The Lost Industrial Atlantis”.

We could operate glass bottom tour boats with slinky female deckhands in provocative urban gear.

I’m dustin’ my license off now!
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 2528
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.167.210.27
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 10:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rock, don't forget a nod to Cap'n Billybrew who is still doing it in the Straits of Detroit.

I like SSport's concept, expanded on by Sailor Rick. Environmental issues would probably make the project infeasible. Most older ships are loaded with asbestos not to mention all the fuels and other chemicals that would need to be abated or removed. However, a ship graveyard for divers, perhaps in the Saginaw Bay area where there arealready many wrecks could be an interesting tourist industry attraction. Great post from a newbie on his 23rd post.

"... glass bottom tour boats with slinky female deckhands in provocative urban gear." LOL I'll bet you are dusting off something.
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Toolbox
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Username: Toolbox

Post Number: 900
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.184.29.148
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 11:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Sailor_rick
We could operate glass bottom tour boats with slinky female deckhands in provocative urban gear.




Only if we can dress Sport up as Captain BobLo!
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Awfavre
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Username: Awfavre

Post Number: 42
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 69.3.206.177
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey, BBB, thanks for the clarification. I haven't been around long enough (like your old self) to remember the steam horns. ;-) You also have to remember, my primary frame of reference is some loud-ass train whistle on a cute little tugboat that occasionally floats by my window! :-)
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1155
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 8:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I will always admire Great lakes sailors like Billybrew and sailor rick whose vocations took them to the water.Sure, they ate well, and seemed to really like their jobs, but I gather it was a tough life, away from home, even dangerous when "North winds blow". The FITZ brings their life more into focus.
And you gotta be careful when you go scuba diving on GL wrecks. I am told that diving on the CEDARVILLE is VERY dangerous, yet my old favorite CG cutter( ACACIA) was purposely sunk so that scuba divers could go down 100 feet and explore her remains.
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Billybbrew
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Username: Billybbrew

Post Number: 151
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, It's not that bad The_Rock, I get to go home every night and pretty much get to choose whether to wait for weather or not, as an owner/operator. (most often, I wait, it's not worth the risks) I've sent you a couple e-mails recently, drop me a note if you get a chance. and what can I say about the train horn Awfavre, I like how it wakes everyone up downtown and makes them do a double take looking for the train :-)

BBB
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Sailor_rick
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Username: Sailor_rick

Post Number: 130
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 12.2.192.33
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 11:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BB, you run a tug/barge?

Yeah, I almost snagged a job before I quit sailing W/GL. But I guess being an office slug in Troy is my just reward for 22 years at sea.

Ah, Rock, I was usually more frightened of turbulence at 30,000 ft than storms (except the North Atlantic).

Lowell,
Ha-ha, "dusting off something", yeah, I use it about as much as my license anymore.
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Billybbrew
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Username: Billybbrew

Post Number: 152
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 2:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

drop me an e-mail rick, you can link directly from my user name. The_rock, you must have mistyped "Acacia" instead of "Mesquite"...just wanted to clarify for other forumers that might not be in the know like us....Trivia, the Acacia is the only 180 foot WW2 era buoy tender still operating on the Great Lakes, 2 (Sundew and Bramble) are preserved as museums in Duluth and Port Huron.

bbb

(Message edited by billybbrew on April 26, 2006)
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1156
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 9:35 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MESQUITE it is. Another senior moment, if jjaba sees this, I am sunk and will never hear the end of it.
The poor old MESQUITE.(WLB-305) I got to board her a few times in Charlevoix. The citizenry up there loved her and the crew were part of the Charlevoix community.
Dec. 4, 1989-Rookie ESN Susan Subocz,fresh from the Academy, acting conning officer, backs onto a shoal as LCDR Lynch is down below having a cup of Joe. This at about 0200. End of vessel. Heads did roll.
Wonder where poor Susan and Lynch are today.

I don't recall getting emails from you Billybrew, but I will contact you. By the way, Pat Labadie will be our guest speaker at the annual Dossin Dinner this October.

Are there any steam whistles still "active" on the Lakes? I occasionally get out my old tape of the big Whistle Blow that the Great Lakes Historical Society recorded many years ago at the Fisherman's Wharf in St. Clair. All those old whistles from both boats and even a few train engines hooked up to the Det Edison compressor. Awesome/nostalgic---better than a Julie London recording.

sailor rick---Sometimes a desk job is more "dangerous" than at sea. I guess it all depends who you are working for!
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2436
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 10:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A hobby you might want to take up:
http://www.shiphorns.com/
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Billybbrew
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Username: Billybbrew

Post Number: 154
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 6:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a few boats with steam horns left on the lakes....Wilfred Sykes, Edward L. Ryerson, Kaye E. Barker, Herbert C. Jackson, Charles M. Beeghly, Middletown, Alpena, J.A.W. Iglehart, St. Marys Challenger, Saginaw, Michipicoten, Badger, Canadian Leader, Canadian Voyageur, Voyageur Independent, this is not a complete list and off the top of my head. Other boats that might still have stean horns...Mississagi, Cuyahoga, Manistee

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