  Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 3972 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.223 |
Today UAW Membership is now under 500,000 the lowest since WWII. Is the American unions dying, to more outsourcing, or other corporate schemes? Or the corporations want more non-unions so they could save money? If we Americans don't find a way to bring solidarity to the work force. Then the elites will win. RISE UP, SOLIDARITY FOREVER! | ||
Steelworker Member Username: Steelworker Post Number: 638 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.73.3.111 |
danny are you being sarcastic? | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 2468 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.167.210.27 |
Part of the problem is with the UAW. Their leadership became part of the elite, negotiated all kinds of no strike clauses and until recently stopped organizing. Their own constitution is a soviet style process where the rank and file do not have direct election of the President. A huge divide exists as a result. The UAW in some ways seems only to exist to protect the gains of upper seniority workers and retirees at the expense of new hires and low seniority workers. As a result they are dying by attrition with the old retiring and the new being laid off. In fairness to the UAW, poorly negotiate trade agreements combined with information age mobility of capital has further hamstrung them. The labor relations arms of management have been far more adroit than the organizing arms of the UAW, which seems stuck in the '30's, impeding their ability to organize many new plants. | ||
Steelworker Member Username: Steelworker Post Number: 639 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.73.3.111 |
steelworkers are horrendous union as well. Plus companies are getting better at skirting or breaking unions as well as hurting rank and file moral. | ||
Detrola Member Username: Detrola Post Number: 11 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 69.14.28.209 |
You reap what you sow. My wife was at one time a teacher and UAW MEMBER at a FORD/UAW child care/kindergarten facility. When their contract negotiations stalled. They took a strike authorization vote. The threat of a strike was met with unanimous outrage by the UAW autoworker parents whose children were enrolled at the center. So much for SOLIDARITY. | ||
River_rat Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 101 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 207.67.146.66 |
For once, I somewhat agree with Lowell. Lowell writes, Part of the problem is with the UAW. Their leadership became part of the elite, negotiated all kinds of no strike clauses and until recently stopped organizing. Their own constitution is a soviet style process where the rank and file do not have direct election of the President. A huge divide exists as a result. The UAW in some ways seems only to exist to protect the gains of upper seniority workers and retirees at the expense of new hires and low seniority workers. As a result they are dying by attrition with the old retiring and the new being laid off. I agree with the first part of the statement. The second part should read, a huge divide exists because the elite union leadership functions primarily to protect their elite status and power. the river rat, former union worker | ||
K00jd01 Member Username: K00jd01 Post Number: 12 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 143.115.159.54 |
Perhaps it's because unions have lost their original sense of purpose. They're no longer needed to protect workers from being beaten by Henry Ford's henchmen, or ensure that employees injured on the job get taken care of. As a result, they've spent the last 30 years extorting sweetheart contracts with absurd pay, benefits, and work conditions. GM can't fire a guy for bringing drugs to work unless he does it three times. Ford can't install a robot on the line because it would put 3 people out of work. A road contractor has to pay 8 guys to do a 2 person job, because the union says so. Maybe it's good that unions are declining? | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3630 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Easy on labor unions. Car-shop Johns don't sell cars. They build cars. Detroit forgot how to sell cars since we saw the first VW bug roll on Woodward Avenue. Today, the benchmark wage is set by Wal-Mart and shop floor wages today are $10.11 per hr. gross wages. No longer are factories like GE, GM, Fords, or Westinghouse setting benchmark wages. This wage structure has rippled into what's left of industrial America. When workers think they are worth more than that, capital follows cheaper off-shore or out-sourced labor. Mexican factory workers earn $1.00 an hour, get a clean uniform, a lunch, and a ride to work. Compare that to the UAW agreements. Please, don't blame the car-shop Johns. The American people voted for a succession of governments who opened up trade with Latin America and Asia. Open trade has really meant Amercan raw materials sold overseas, and manufactured goods returning. You can count on one hand the number of American made cars overseas, while our ports are stuffed with imported shiploads of cars at Baltimore, Portland, Vancouver, Seattle, and Los Angeles/Long Beach ports. jjaba, Westsider. jjaba. | ||
K00jd01 Member Username: K00jd01 Post Number: 13 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 143.115.159.54 |
The corollary to Mexican factory workers earning $1/hour is that that wage drives down the cost of cars for us. We thus have more money to buy other goods that may or may not be produced domestically. Of course, it's not cheap to ship steel from Pennsylvania to Mexico where it's machined, and then from Mexico to Venezuela where it becomes a frame, Venezuela to Detroit where it becomes a car, and then ship the car to Peoria for sale. But when labor cartels drive up wages into the stratosphere, it's cheaper to play the international trade game than to deal with janitors making $74k/year. It's worth noting that trade goes both ways. The best software development and financial services, for example, are right here in the States. Capital thus flows here from other countries. Unions would do far better for their members to encourage education and diversification than to choke American companies to death by fighting market forces. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3632 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
KOOJDOI, we are not talking about engineers capable of developing new software. That's not the UAW membership. UAW members are semi-skilled car-shop Johns. Basically, the same folks who unload trucks and stack boxes at Wal-Mart can build automobiles. That labor is really worth $10.11 an hour. And for full-time after 6 months, we'll throw in some health care insurance. Maybe somebody can tell us what the non-unionized USA assembly line workers at the non-UAW auto plants get. Mostly, the Asian and European car makers have chosen to be an arm's length away from the UAW. They avoided Michigan for the most part. Maytag in Newton, Iowa is UAW and they can't make it either. So, it is not only the auto industry. Old line suppliers like tires, radios, batteries, electrical assemblies, wipers, door panel makers, glass makers all have had the same problems with off-shoring and out-sourcing. Chevy Equinox engines are shipped in from China to Vancouver, BC, then assembled in Ontario. Canada is a preferred place since the auto companies don't have to pay health insurance all by themselves like in USA. Canada and Mexico leaders just met with Pres. Bush in Cancun. "You're doing a get job, Brownie, taking away our jobs. Our bosses love the free trade..." jjaba, Solidarity. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 426 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Chinese workers in heavy industry make about $12K annually, according to some financial article recently. Now that the Chinese are now able to own their own cars and trucks, they do. From what I've read, tourists are surprised in the large increase in vehicular use throughout Asia the past decade. That also suggests that the worldwide demand for petroleum should remain high permanently. The lower-tier UAW workers at the Tiers are now starting around $13 to $14/hr, with lean benefit packages. The non-union shops doing heat treating, magnafluxing, etc., start at around $7 or $8/hr and peak around $10 after several years employment. And these shops are struggling. One of Delphi's plans was to cut the pay down for their lowest-level workers to $9/hr, before GM came to its rescue. (Message edited by livernoisyard on April 15, 2006) | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 931 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
New York Times Book Review 'The Disposable American' How Pink Slips Hurt More Than Workers By THOMAS GEOGHEGAN Published: March 29, 2006 Is the layoff the great American wound? In Louis Uchitelle's account, it seems a wound in triplicate. It hollows out companies so they can't compete. It hollows out the country by removing middle-class jobs. It hollows out the middle-class employees who are laid off and then too often drop permanently to a demeaning, low-wage way of life. To Mr. Uchitelle, who reports on economics for The New York Times, corporate America's addiction to the layoff has gone past the point of economic rationality. In this fascinating book he tries to tell the history of the United States in our time as the unchecked rise of layoffs. The Disposable American" is a history in which odd characters like Pat Buchanan, the former chief executives Jack Welch and Albert J. Dunlap (known as Chainsaw Al), the economist Alfred Kahn and others loom large but so do Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton and Robert E. Rubin, former secretary of the treasury. But Mr. Uchitelle is just as interested in ordinary people and in the way that layoffs keep tormenting those who have been let go. As he writes, "I did not think in the early stages of the reporting for this book that I would be drawn so persistently into the psychiatric aspect of layoffs." The layoff, Mr. Uchitelle argues, has transformed the nation. At least 30 million full-time American employees have gotten pink slips since the Labor Department belatedly started to count them in 1984. But add in the early retirees, the "quits" who saw the layoffs coming, and the number is much higher a whole ghost nation trekking into what for most will be lower-wage work. This is the Dust Bowl in our Golden Bowl, and to Mr. Uchitelle, layoffs in one way are worse than the unemployment of the 1930's. At least then, most of the jobless came back to better-paid, more secure jobs. Those laid off in our time almost never will. Mr. Uchitelle effectively wrecks the claim that all this downsizing makes the country more productive, more competitive, more flexible. He is willing to admit that downsizing can be necessary. "The global economy is not to be denied," he writes. But to lay off is now like a business school tic, whether it makes any sense or not. With fewer employees, many companies begin to crumble. Innovation also suffers. "Rather than try to outstrip foreign competitors in innovation, a costly and risky process, we gave up in product after product," Mr. Uchitelle writes. As he points out, many of the business stars now are companies, like Southwest Airlines, that have refused to downsize at all. A growing number of economists argue that layoffs cause more problems than they solve. The heart of Mr. Uchitelle's book is his detailed, wide-ranging reporting. He is present, taking notes, while airline mechanics are being counseled into job training that will take them into lower-wage work. If they were not so painful, these moments would have a certain droll comedy. One mechanic ends up running a water taxi for tourists. Another goes into maintenance. Others find jobs "throwing boxes" at Federal Express. As one of the ex-mechanics tells Mr. Uchitelle years later: "It is hard to look in your son's eyes and explain to him that you are making $12 an hour and know his high school friends are making that much on the side." In one of his shrewder moves, Mr. Uchitelle goes right into the enemy camp, as it were, and looks in on a reunion of Harvard graduates, the class of '68. But even Harvard grads are among the wounded now some have received pink slips. Mr. Uchitelle makes a strong case that the whole middle class is at risk. During the Clinton era, the claim was that the United States was expanding high-wage, high-skilled jobs, and that the laid off could simply jump into jobs as good or better. But Mr. Uchitelle takes apart this argument. After all, he writes, as of 2004, more than 45 percent of American workers were earning $13.25 an hour or less. The jobs that the country has been "growing" the fastest include those like janitor, hospital orderly and cashier. It nettles Mr. Uchitelle that even the center-left politicians have said so little about this trend or have done so little to stop layoffs. In fact, layoffs rose faster in the first half of the 1990's than they did in the first half of the 80's. Mr. Uchitelle particularly blames Mr. Clinton. One of his chapters is titled "A Green Light From Clinton." Mr. Uchitelle writes: "As much as anyone, he disconnected the Democratic party from its past, specifically its New Deal concern for job security and full employment." Indeed, it is Mr. Uchitelle's point that it took government action to bring about the reign of layoffs. He is also clear that this began long before the Clinton presidency. Mr. Uchitelle puts special emphasis on the deregulation of many industries, the dilution of the Humphrey-Hawkins Full Employment Act of 1978 and what he regards as other political wrong turns. Still, in a brief concluding chapter, it is unclear whether Mr. Uchitelle sees any good solutions now including a solution that he attributes to this reviewer. In this retelling of American history, Mr. Uchitelle is baffled by the collapse of any serious resistance to these mass layoffs. Even the protestors who began to sound off in the 90's generally believed that companies did have to downsize or die. It bothers Mr. Uchitelle that the mechanics and others he covers in this book and gets to know personally often blame themselves. "Whenever I insisted that layoffs were a phenomenon in America beyond their control, they agreed perfunctorily and then went right back to describing ... why it was somehow their fault or their particular bad luck." Many readers know Mr. Uchitelle as a business journalist with an acute analytic bent. That is in this book, but there is a surprising passion as well. He urges demands that Americans speak up: not to give empty speeches about how more of us should go to college, or "skill up," but to stop the layoffs from ravaging us all. Thomas Geoghegan is a labor lawyer and author. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 1956 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 72.25.177.194 |
And lest we forget, the leaky borders are letting in "people who are willing to do the jobs Americans no longer wish to do" which includes working for far less than union wages. If you or anyone you know is one of the workers mentioned above, you should be banging on the door/phone/email of your congressman to enforce the laws already on the books and shut the borders to all but legal immigration - or you will be equal to, and competing with, those illegally flowing across the borders by the millions. | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 668 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 68.42.220.37 |
Gosh, why is it that employment outside of Michgian for durable goods manufacturing is going up? Why is it that foriegn OEMs and their suppliers are building plant after plant here in the United States? Could it be that the UAW, the management of the Big 3 and the general population of Southeast Michigan have a diseased culture of mediocrity, inertia and entitlement which combined with low educational attainment makes them a collosal pack of LOSERS in global economic race? <== wants to vomit thinking about this pathetic region. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 465 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.237.10.39 |
Geez Ray, A little tough on the locals dude. There is a reality though that the United States is statistically at full employment with an economy that continues to grow everywhere but....here. Its going to be ugly for a few decades while equilibrium sets in. The unions are dead and eventually the kind of entrepeneurship that made Detroit the largest shipbuilder and then the largest stove builder and then the Motor City, will create new opportunities for growth and wealth. Get on board now and make your mark! | ||
Mcp001 Member Username: Mcp001 Post Number: 2105 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.14.135.95 |
I honestly expect the UAW to be a footnote in the history books sometime within the decade. As pointed out above, their "leadership" has evolved into too much of an intransigent entity, disconnected from the rank and file that it purportedly represents. That coupled with sweatheart trade deals, made by both democrats & republicans, which have undermined the economic stabliity of our country as well as a "look-and-what-I-say-not-at-wh at-I-do" immigration policy, those $10.11 jobs will be looking really good in the next few years to most people. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 3975 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.173.162 |
Steelworker, I'm not being sarcastic. You're not looking at my post very carefully. You have to wake up and smell reality for it bites. Our American unions is slowly dying and the elites are still making money from out of our miseries. So many strikes, so many bargining agreements, but it ended up with NO pensions, NO raises for unions, but for the corporate elites, and NO hope to meet the cost of living requirements. The Ghettoman and rest of his street prophets are standing up for all American unions and to make sure the elites will give up pensions and raises and to prevent more outsourcing to other foriegn nations. (Message edited by danny on April 15, 2006) | ||
Dalangdon Member Username: Dalangdon Post Number: 9 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 67.171.17.254 |
I have never been a member of a union, but I have supervised union employees in both HERE (hotel employees) and AFSCME (Public employees) and I can tell you I vastly prefer workplaces with contracts. Are there abuses? sometimes. Are there bad contracts? sometimes. But it takes two parties to agree to those contracts, so I don't have much sympathy for companies that complain. Beyond that, having a contract makes everything much easier - IF the managers and supervisors KNOW the workrules. Show me a situation with "lazy" or "unproductive" employees, and nine times out of ten I'll show you a management team too stupid or lazy to know the rules, so they can't discipline correctly, and everyone suffers. The management, in turn, blames it on the union. On the flip side, I worked at a luxury hotel without representation, and things were wonderful there. That is, until the manager left, and they put in an old-boy alcoholic who was more concerned about hiding his mistress from his wife. Under his ineptitude, things fell apart rapidly, and the hotel went from a five star to a four star, and is yet to recover. Finally, as an investor, I'm much more concerned about senior management in American corporations who are more interest in stacking the compensation committee with cronies and keeping their stock options valuable than the health of their company or industry. This is a huge problem in manufacturing, as R&D suffers, but it's also a problem in the service sector where the constant pressure to keep manhours at a minium effects service. You can't cut employees in a "luxury" hotel and expect to continue to charge "luxury" rates, so everything starts to slip, and the customers suffer. Finally, I think that - in the case of a hotel - if you are providing an opulent workplace with luxurious furnishings, gourmet food, fine wines, etc, and not paying your front line workers enough money to put food on the table and provide a decent place for their family to live, there is something morally wrong with that picture. Labor has been a scapegoat forever, but we have only been naive enough to believe it for the last twenty years or so. As goes labor, so goes the middle class. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3637 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Dalangdon tells it like it tis. Welcome to The Forum. jjaba, Westsider, remembering the Statler. | ||
Pdtpuck Member Username: Pdtpuck Post Number: 3 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 208.251.168.194 |
/\ thanks for mentioning Peoria! (grew up near there...or did you mean Peoria, ARIZONA?!?!) I was ready to rip off a LONG post about my experience with unions, but it has been said better & more thoughtfully than i could have!!! In a nutshell..... Unions have shot themselves in the foot by, as lowell so well put, protecting the status quo & not thinking of the future dues paying member. Corporations & government policy have killed off the so-called "skilled" tradesman by free trade agreements, hiring practices, and decreasing benefits packages, to name but a few. For instance, Caterpillar in Peoria has outsourced so much work to "mom-and-pop" shops that most of their new hires are called "temporary with possibility of full time employment" (not the real title, of course!) people who have to work upwards of 2-4 YEARS to be even REMOTELY considered for full-time employment, and NO benefits at all to start! Corporations are even nixing benefits for RETIREES in pursuit of the almighty dollar (I see a day in the future, maybe it's already HERE, where a good job will be $10/hour MAX and you'll have to pay for your own benefits!). Unions have been losing strength for decades, but I am hesitant to say it was Reagan ordering the air traffic controllers back to work in the 80's that finally did them in (every single union in the country should've walked for one day to show solidarity, but i digress..........). Speaking of solidarity, it doesn't mean shit in today's society of "hooray for me and up yours" mentality. Everybody has their own agenda, and guess what? You or me are NOT on it!!!! Thanks for letting me vent! | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 466 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.237.10.39 |
"I have never been a member of a union, but I have supervised union employees in both HERE (hotel employees) and AFSCME (Public employees) and I can tell you I vastly prefer workplaces with contracts" ______________________________ _________________ That is an amazing statement dalangdon, and absolutely unbelieveable. I have been a union employee in AFSCME and other unions in my early years of work, because I was required to pay dues to get the job. I have also had the opportunity to work with and supervise union empolyees in later life. There is absolutely nothing that union contracts do to make a better working relationship between management and the those they are managing. There is nothing that these contracts do to allow a company to act more effectively nor, most importantly, reward individual achievement. They are not designed to do that. Per MCP001's post, the UAW will be a footnote in history soon. Argument over. | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 560 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.216.100.1 |
500,000 to go, we can do that!! Get rid of them all. | ||
Dalangdon Member Username: Dalangdon Post Number: 10 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 67.171.17.254 |
Irish_mafia, I try to avoid sweeping statements. You seem to be doing enough of that for all of us. I supervised AFSCME classified cooks, janitors and mechanical employees at a public university. "Individual achievement" was not really an issue, because a lot of it was basically rote production work, but there were employees who were promoted to supervisor positions when they showed initiative and leadership, and some made the transition from classified to management level. In my situation, we had detailed work rules and policies regarding displinary issues that made supervision very cut and dried - if you knew the contract. Other managers in other facilities didn't, and it showed in how their facilities were run, and their budget allocations. You may have had a different experience, but it worked for me, and the employees under me. We had the highest senority of employees of any facility on campus, and we consistently scored high on all of our benchmarks (health regs, customer satisfaction surveys, and hotel accredidation) But if you want to talk "individual achievement", UNITE/HERE is doing some great stuff in housekeeping, so that a good, fast maid can clean extra rooms for extra money, if she's completed her allocation before the end of her shift. That's a winning scenario for both the employee AND the management, as more rooms get cleaned with less overtime, and it's something that a maid can work up to without unrealistic allocation expectations being forced on her. That's probably one of the reasons that HERE is one of the unions whos membership is actually growing in many cities. Bottom line is this: Unions aren't appropriate for every workplace, but most of the time they aren't the hinderance that many lazy, inept managers claim. You may have another opinion, and that's fine. But don't presume to know what my experience has been. | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 670 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 68.42.220.37 |
Wall Street Journal Article this weekend: "INDUSTIRAL PRODUCTION SURGES BUT GROWTH MAY SLOW. Industrial production surged last month, capping a period of rapid expansion for manufacturers, but economists see slower growth in the months ahead." The article is accompanied by a graph of US non-automotive industrial ouput and is captioned "BOOM TIMES". I rest my case. Industrial America (including the transplant automotive industry) is BOOMING. So much for the blaming[America/capitalism/glo balism/trade/China/George Bush]. Here in Wacky Michigan, we have fucked ourselves and our kids through our stuborn stupidity and close-mindedness. Really, it makes me sick. It's pathetic. | ||
Pdtpuck Member Username: Pdtpuck Post Number: 6 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 208.251.168.194 |
Not trying to burst your bubble Ray, but at least in the Midwest, Mitsubishi Motors of America (yes, you read that right) laid off the entire workforce of second and third shift about one year ago, and as far as I know, NONE have been called back yet (my girlfriend was one of the layoffs (layees? layoffees? lol) and her dad is still working there, only by virtue of his position (maintenance). | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 577 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.212.169.194 |
Many people are near-sighted. Can't understand why buying a Toyota has anything to do with poor Metro Detroit economics. Can't understand why Unions mean fair wages for non-union personnel. | ||
Detrola Member Username: Detrola Post Number: 13 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 69.14.28.209 |
Many people are in denial. Can't understand why buying a Ford, GM, or Chrysler product manufactured at a plant in Mexico or Canada has anything to do with poor Metro Detroit economics Can't understand why GM is in trouble when it pays an 83 year old union employee with 34 years on the job the fair wage of $74,000.00 a year to mop foors and empty waste paper baskets. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 578 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.212.169.194 |
My Mustang was engineered here, manufactured here and profits go to Metro Detroit. Ford also has a relatively higher American content, helping the suppliers, etc etc. Glad the guy with 34 years makes a decent wage. Better than setting the bar at minimum wage after 34 years. GM's problem is selling cars. If they sell enough cars, the expenses are handled. If people think its fashionable to drive a Toyota to Walmart, then they wont... no matter what exceptions are used to try to justify it for the me generation. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1312 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.220.230.150 |
You do realize that is almost impossible due to global competition and the outragoues welfare programs they have. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 935 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.129.146.186 |
Industrial output and job numbers don't equate the way they used to. Automation is as responsible for displacing workers as is moving manufacturing overseas to lower cost labor markets. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8324 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.71.59.252 |
Lilpup, who makes the automation? Those will skilled labour and those with an education. Sorry, but the days of those with a grade 10 education making $60,000 are over. Automation has replaced one area of workers but brought in a slew of new jobs; Yet it alllows companies to become much more productive which in turn makes them more profitable. Your arguement has no merit. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 936 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.129.146.186 |
Yes, automation makes plants more productive but there's no way an automated plant uses an equal or higher number of workers, with or without education. Greater production with fewer employees means industrial output can go through the roof while many still remain un- or underemployed. Automation makes plant production more flexible and scalable. Output is no longer as indicative of employment levels as it was in the past. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8328 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.71.59.252 |
I never said they did. What I did state was that people have to design, build, install the automation. While others have to keep in in running condition. Not to mention there will be people who build the parts that make the robotics. Cylinders, valves, actuators, fittings, tubing... | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 3350 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 65.222.10.3 |
where is that article about the GM janitor making $75 grand? | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1313 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.220.230.150 |
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060411/BUS INESS01/604110335 | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 469 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.237.10.39 |
"Bottom line is this: Unions aren't appropriate for every workplace, but most of the time they aren't the hinderance that many lazy, inept managers claim. You may have another opinion, and that's fine. But don't presume to know what my experience has been." ______________________________ ___________________ Dalangdon, No manager, no manager, no manager.... hopes for union representation of the employees that they hope to direct. Your story is a myth created to ensnare the few simple-minded dolts left that might fall for it. Move 0n...nothing to see here. | ||
Dalangdon Member Username: Dalangdon Post Number: 11 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 67.171.17.254 |
Suit yourself, Irish. Sorry that you have to fall back on tired stereotypes of the "right" and "left" to support your side of the arguement. That's the kind of thinking that doesn't get you beyond middle-management. I don't know - maybe manufacturing is different, but my very real "real world" experience hasn't led me to fear the spectre of unions. Then again, I was never big on ideology. I always thought Ayn Rand was nothing more than a bad romance novelist ;-) |
