  Observant2art Member Username: Observant2art Post Number: 204 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 209.104.139.161 |
Why isn't Grand River Avenue another option to rebuild on? It seems as if the only places thats keeping this long avenue alive is Motor City Casino and Carls Chop House. I know that Detroit is struggling financially, but what about homes and businesses that are still going up as we speak. If people are willing to build on Woodward Avenue, what is wrong with Grand River? From Wikipedia History "Today Grand River Avenue remains the main street of over a dozen Michigan cities, and a scenic route through one of the state's most populated corridors." I believe this Grand River Avenue has potential. | ||
Jfried Member Username: Jfried Post Number: 783 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.190 |
lots of stuff going on around grandriver & warren - aka woodbrige west, aka woodward cultural corridor. 4731 gallery + 555.org are the anchors. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1724 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.233 |
Well then, Think of something to put on grand River, pony up the cash and do something about it. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 38 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.43.107.72 |
United Cafe! | ||
Observant2art Member Username: Observant2art Post Number: 205 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 209.104.139.161 |
Ndavies, why do you always have a problem with my questions? Anyway! I am not going to stoop to your childesh comments. For your information, I thought Grand River had potential. Why dont you pony up and join me, SmartA--! | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1524 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
Um, because he's too busy ponying up and developing downtown? | ||
Super_d Member Username: Super_d Post Number: 813 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 69.246.109.156 |
Rebuild Kingsway! or was that Federals!  super d(motordetroit) | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1725 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.233 |
Your ideas are completely arbitrary and useless. Without coming up with a real idea that can be debated or the cash to back something, you are just spinning in the wind. As dialh4hipster stated, I have cash on the line. I'm helping develop a project downtown. Now the the first project is well on it's way, I'm hoping to help get a second project off the ground. I've stepped up. What have you done other than post stupid questions? I hadn't even realized it was you. I'm just responding to another empty post with no substance. Just like I respond to most empty non contributing posts. I'm tired of these somebody should do something posts. If you feel someone should do something, why not be the somebody and do it. If you're waiting for someone else to do something, there's a pretty good chance you'll just continue to wait. (Message edited by ndavies on March 31, 2006) | ||
Jfried Member Username: Jfried Post Number: 784 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.190 |
N notveryniceguy davies - dude, lighten up. not everyone has the money, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't listen to their questions, or encourage their ideas. | ||
Toolbox Member Username: Toolbox Post Number: 869 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.184.29.148 |
The TreeTop Craftsman, Inc. is rehabbing a building near 4731 for his buisness. I think Ndavies needs to get back to work so he can pony up more dough for redevelopment. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1526 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
Ndavies may be a big grumpybritches, but he's got a point. Why in the WORLD should we listen to stupid questions, crazy conjecture and onanistic pipe-dreaming when we could actually be out there DOING something? Yeah, Ndavies, take a little time out of your day to answer the important hypothetical questions raised in this thread! | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 532 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.42.176.123 |
We should talk about crazy conjecture and onanistic pipe-dreaming because that's where ideas come from. It's better that people talk about broad subjects and crazy conjecture than ignore them. Actually, didn't the idea for the Vinton project come from a similar conversation between a bunch of forumers. Five years ago, I bet the Vinton project idea would have come off as crazy conjecture or pipe dreaming. | ||
Jfried Member Username: Jfried Post Number: 785 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.190 |
ummmm...it's an online forum. no one is required to answer ANY questions. if you don't have time, are annoyed by a stupid question, or whatever, just let it go instead of being an ass. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 275 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
So...Grand River..... | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 88 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 209.220.229.254 |
Woodward is and has been Detroit's "main street." If and when this redevelopment thing catches on big time, the other arterials will follow. It's not like Grand River is the only street missing out. Besides, as mentioned before, some of the far-west neighborhoods are some of the strongest in the city. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3504 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
How long is Grand River Avenue just in Detroit? It's sure a hell of a lot longer than from Carl's Chop House to the Motor City Casino. Recently there was a great thread of pictures of recent Grand River cityscapes. Check it out. After the DDOT gives us back the electric buses with the cool Capitol Park terminal, then we'll see investment on that wide wonderful commercial street. Bring back the dispatchers with the white gloves, snappy caps, and clip boards all along the route. jjaba rode to Cass Tech. 1956-59 on them. jjaba, on the Grand River-Lahser. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 533 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.42.176.123 |
Grand River on the city's northwest side just went through a major makeover. It looks really good now. But the Grand River sections closer to downtown definitely need to be redone. A properly redone section of Grand River near Woodbridge/Wayne State could really help make Wayne State more of a traditonal college campus instead of a commuter campus. | ||
Taj920 Member Username: Taj920 Post Number: 97 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 68.42.252.205 |
I gave up on Grand River when the City wouldn't return my phone calls about converting Olympia Stadium into a mixed-use development but keeping a portion of the ice for use by youth teams. | ||
Michael Member Username: Michael Post Number: 723 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.129.2.27 |
I hear that another contracting firm also set up shop next to The TreeTop Craftsman, Inc. Also, there is a possible residential conversion taking place in the very close vacinity. There's potentially a ton of activity from Grand River and Warren to Grand River and Rosa Parks. | ||
Gmich99 Member Username: Gmich99 Post Number: 71 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 65.29.97.102 |
Grand River Ave is 15-16 miles within Detroit. Biked the whole of it a few months ago. The pictures from the ride are linked somewhere on this forum. | ||
Souldrummer Member Username: Souldrummer Post Number: 3 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 67.149.237.90 |
I agree with E_Hemingway....we should ask questions and talk about our dreams for Detroit. I'm not rolling in the dough now, but I have ideas that might be financially viable in the future. WE have to look at the big picture. 10-15 years is not that long in the life of a city. Why not talk about 30 or 40 years from now? Times may change, but the creative juices always need to be flowing from all who are interested in seeing this region thrive. And if you can't stand the "stupid" questions be a man and ignore them. | ||
Gmich99 Member Username: Gmich99 Post Number: 72 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 65.29.97.102 |
Whats wrong with stupid day dreaming on detroityes.com? | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1032 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 204.39.225.90 |
Sorry, Ndavies and dialh, to disagree with you guys but it does sound a bit condescending to say well I am investing my money why don't you? Sorry not all of us have the resources to pull of a Vinton project or hell even fix our damn cars. You make it sound like unless we are not land owners we don't get a vote. I am sorry but that went out during the Jackson administration. If you don't like an idea let go.
Why not DialH? He is certainly taking his time out of the day to bitch and moan about these questions being beneath him. I hate to jump at you guys like that because I respect you both, but lets tone down the smugness. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 3330 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.79.98.246 |
Yeah, the whole "I am doing more than you" routine is bullshit. get over it. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3512 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Thanks GMICH. jjaba would have guessed about that. Now that's one hell of a long arterial for a city. That makes Gratiot also about as long. Wow. jjaba, hawking papers on Sat. night at Grand River and Oakman Blvd. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1527 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
My issue was with the attitude presented that (a) this is important dialog that will actually result in something and (b) Ndavies should take the time to formulate a response other than the one that he made. I disagree that the whole "I am doing more than you" is bullshit. Because, as it turns out, all many people on here do is post on the forum about Detroit, and wait for someone else to do the fixing. And then of course they pat themselves on the back for doing their part, such as - to use an example we saw many times on this forum - supporting local business by buying a cup of coffee at Cafe de Troit. And then posting about it! Look how much I do! So that attitude actually is everywhere on here. I think it is important to point out that while it can be FUN to engage in a discussion about the possiblities of an area, if no one in the group is actually going to "pony up" then it does not actually help Detroit. Go ahead and do it, but don't delude yourself that you are making a big difference. Sorry to seem crabby about it, but it can just be frustrating to see the cavalier attitudes of people who aren't doing a whole hell of a lot toward people who actually are. | ||
Missnmich Member Username: Missnmich Post Number: 494 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 70.186.39.150 |
How do discussions about old car factories help Detroit? I opened this thread hoping for a discussion, or anecdotes, or pictures about my favorite street in Detroit. Those kinds of discussions are why I joined this forum in the first place. This section is called Discuss Detroit!, not fix it. If something constructive comes comes out of the discussion, well bully for it! No wonder Hot Fudge Detroit remains so popular ... (Message edited by missnmich on April 01, 2006) | ||
Gmich99 Member Username: Gmich99 Post Number: 74 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 65.29.97.102 |
Missnmich- Couldn't agree with you more! | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 648 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.79.94.2 |
Same here, Gmich, same here | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1570 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.212.49.170 |
There are times when I have a suggestion for a development that I know I can't afford to develop myself. My thought is, "I can't develop this, but maybe if someone hears my idea and they have the money, they might go ahead and develop it." It doesn't hurt my pride if someone takes the idea and runs with it because in the end I win. For example, during discussions regarding Tiger Stadium, I have suggested that a Detroit Sports Museum or Hall of Fame be built there using a portion of the stadium and the current field. Now, I can't go to the city with my idea because I have no funds. However, there may be a forumite or a friend of a forumite who reads or hears of my idea and decides that they would like to do what I'm suggesting. The idea may have never crossed their mind, but by putting it out there, something gets done that I would like to see get done. This is a win-win situation for me and all of those involved. So therefore, what's wrong with putting pie-in-the-sky ideas on the forum? The worst that can happen is that they might happen. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1529 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
True in more ways than you intended. | ||
Gmich99 Member Username: Gmich99 Post Number: 76 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 65.29.97.102 |
No one has to justify their written day dreaming in this forum. We're all doing it. I happen to enjoy hearing improbable, if not impossible, ideas about Detroit. I even enjoy the hypothetical, even the bad ones. | ||
Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism Post Number: 455 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.209.155.143 |
With all due respect, Ndavies isn't usually like that. His response above is not typical at all. Perhaps it's the warmer weather and the lack of snow for recreation. I agree with Royce. If anything, I bear witness to the torture that he had experienced whenever he suggests something creative and out-of-this-world. He had been tormented more often than most on this forum simply because he dared to speak up and put his ideas out there. | ||
Ventura67 Member Username: Ventura67 Post Number: 11 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.245.93.12 |
It seems Grand River's devastation and slow return are linked to the major difference it has with Woodward or Michigan Ave. Both Woodward and Michigan have (or had) significant institutions: major health centers, WSU campus and related buildings, train stations, sports stadiums, museums. All these things helped to keep them fairly healthy and utilized, though as of relatively recently Michigan is losing what it had. Regardless of Detroit's situation suburbanites still came and come to those institutions. Grand River had very little of this throughout its history, only businesses that relied heavily on the neighborhoods. Neighborhoods empty, businesses empty. Also, and so sadly, each of these old artery avenues has been replaced by the "cancer" causing freeway system, but none are as paralleled by one than Grand River. I-96 has made Grand River completely obsolete within the city (and beyond). Personally it has always been my favorite avenue in Detroit. Seems to be the single most reflective avenue of the city. Not a bad question at all, isn't that largely what this forum is for, to discuss matters concerning Detroit? | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 20 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 72.229.136.103 |
Remember............there is no such thing as a stupid question.........just stupid people who ask questions!313 | ||
Cris Member Username: Cris Post Number: 402 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.227.26.131 |
I believe the area of Grand River that is part of Woodbridge (ie the dog and cat hospital, etc) is part of a "Cool Cities" grant. I've driven the stretch of Grand River from Woodbridge out to the city limits many times, especially last summer during all the freeway construction. In general (with some exceptions, including that huge church), it doesn't look too good until you hit Greenfield, then after that it perks up and by the time you reach 8 Mile you've been driving several miles through a nice looking area. Give it time. Detroit isn't going to be "fixed" overnight. There are some places that will probably never recover, especially with the suck-ass economy in Michigan. I think it makes sense to focus on Woodward first, and then work on streets like Grand River. I used to think United Cafe had the best corned beef sandwiches until I discovered Hi-Grades, on Michigan. | ||
Michael Member Username: Michael Post Number: 724 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.129.2.27 |
The TreeTop Craftsman's place, 4731 and 555 also were part of the Cool Cities Grant program as I recall. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 56 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.43.107.72 |
what exactly is the cool cities grant? I mean I heard Gov. Jenny discuss it, but whats the jist. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 896 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
But we always seem to come back to Grand River when there is any problem on I-96 anywhere in Michigan. | ||
Michael Member Username: Michael Post Number: 725 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.129.2.27 |
Cool Cities | ||
Tomoh Member Username: Tomoh Post Number: 129 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.156.15.166 |
Driving the length of Gd River within city limits I always think of how much potential that corridor has. Old Redford, the Greenfield intersection, the Grand Blvd intersection, the Warren intersection (the art galleries, potentially also the West Warren Business Association), Woodbridge, and the final stretch from about MLK to Woodward. I can see potential for the Motor City Casino environs of being a walkable neighborhood, pedestrian-friendly into the CBD, and walkable over a new bridge on Brooklyn into Corktown. Perhaps a major Masonic Temple development having some spillover on Grand River. Anyways, a good way to kill some time and gas, driving down Grand River. The original question was "what is wrong with Gd River compared to Woodward" which a few people addressed with the lack of large institutions. I'd add that Grand River has larger and more stretches of undeveloped fields than Woodward or Michigan and that there's no Midtown or Corktown equivalents near downtown on Grand River. (I think Woodbridge suffers from a lack of mixed-use streets.) There's also no districts like TechTown to redevelop. I think that buying 1000 cups of coffee from a local Detroit coffee shop does help. So does eating out as often as one can afford in downtown restaurants. So does joining a local co-op. So does renting an apartment in the city. So does buying a home there. I think you should feel like you're doing something for the city if you're going one step up from what you would normally, consciously do, although in perspective a cup of coffee is insignificant compared to investing half a million in a historic redevelopment in the most impactful neighborhood of the city. Barring a lack of coffee shops on Grand River, a lack of restaurants close to downtown, what are ways that the layman can participate in Grand River? Support the 555? Do we have ideas for co-operative stores? Loft conversions? Money-making ventures? | ||
Tomoh Member Username: Tomoh Post Number: 130 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.156.15.166 |
Also, just because Gd River has potential doesn't mean other areas have much more immediate potential. Maybe it will be redeveloped in due time -- after the other greater downtown neighborhoods. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 652 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.231.189.137 |
I agree with you Tomoh, in that I think it is important and noteworthy to put every extra cent into the city economy. I myself, try to make as many of my purchases as possible inside the city, because I know that the dollar is needed more in that neighborhood than in my suburb of Brighton. Look around, and its obvious. therefore, I dont understand why people here complain about others not making big investments downtown, when in reality they should be encouraging the attitude of spending any amount of $ inside Detroit...Instead, some bash those without the big money for "self-glorifying" themselves for spending $18 downtown, or whatever. Its not self glory, its pride in the fact that they are supporting Detroit in what capacity they can. Big difference. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 169 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 24.208.234.52 |
Tomoh--if you want to help grand river, buy wigs, nails and liquor-lotto. and go get a haircut at "we be cuttin' hair and stuff" in the 16000 block. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 1856 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 216.203.223.90 |
Or better yet, buy a building and redevelop it. Who would have predicted, 5 years ago, that Grand River and Warren would have two buildings full of artists? That area would be a good place to start. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 1857 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 216.203.223.90 |
Or better yet, buy a building and redevelop it. Who would have predicted, 5 years ago, that Grand River and Warren would have two buildings full of artists? That area would be a good place to start. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 3895 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
HAH! On Grand River Ave. anywhere from Downtown Detroit to Whitcomb St. in the NW Side. 97% of the mom and pop retail stips are all gone. Along with the big ballrooms, movie palaces and special department stores and Olympia Stadium where the Red Wings once play. It's all of one big black Detroit ghetto up to the 5 points. (Message edited by danny on April 03, 2006) | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 3896 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
Gone forever is Federals, Sears, Wards, Woolworths, Great Lakes, Grande Ballroom, Riviera, Beverly theaters, Olympia Stadium, Kresge's, Crowleys, Redford Bowl, Gone all gone due to your segregated ingnorace. Now your children in the future generations have to know about our past the they will be able to change it for the better. What's history is history. | ||
Pamequus Member Username: Pamequus Post Number: 12 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 158.229.218.204 |
Hey DANNY......whose "segregated ignorance"??? I am 56, my parents moved the family out of Detroit in the late 60s.....was not my decision. I suggest that the folks that bent to that segregation nonsense was, at the least, a generation prior to mine and are mostly gone from this earth. My point is stop pointing fingers at how it happened, put away the anger and go forward with the magnificent city Detroit was and could be again. My heart breaks when I see Detroit as it is and remembers Detroit as it was when I grew up. I am no longer there and I suppose some would think that makes me less qualified to criticise and that may be true but it is the place of my youth, the place of my heart and, from my point of view, it's time for it's residence to stop whining about how it happened and do whatever you are able to do to fix it. One more thing.....the more racism that continues to flow thru the veins of Detroit, whether it be from white or black people, will continue to inhibit the growth of Detroit. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 3908 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.173.20 |
Pamequus, So it's your mommy and daddy's segregated ignorance that join the WHITE FLIGHT to suburbantopia. That's all right let you mommy and daddy retire in their cookie cutter paradise. | ||
Cheddar_bob Member Username: Cheddar_bob Post Number: 562 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.74.205 |
Don't take Danny's post too seriously. He's "Special". | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3533 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Ghettoman, time to cool the jets. Better to educate than pontificate or surmise. jjaba. | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 629 Registered: 05-2004 Posted From: 68.40.119.216 |
Its funny to hear folks cry about white flight and then see what "they" did with their city. If they continued to shop at Federals or Montgomery Wards, they would still be there. | ||
Pamequus Member Username: Pamequus Post Number: 15 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 158.229.218.204 |
Paul.....some folks just can't be happy unless they can blame it on someone or something else.....far be if from them to assume some of the responsibility. Danny.....my parents are both deceased. As they were both wonderful people I'm sure they are in paradise now. You totally missed my point......the people you choose to blame for all of Detroit's problems aren't even among us anymore for the most part. Try facing the reality of the situation, stop blaming white folks for everything that is wrong in your life and get a life. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 3918 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.235 |
Pamequus, Yep! that cookie cutter home in their own Paradise, whether afterlife that the good Lord or the bad Devil have send them. Jjaba, What is the last time you took the tour through Grand River? And I'm not talking about your good ole' days that you went to Wards, Cunninghams, Federals, S.S Kresge's, Bakers Shoes, Big Boy's and Crowley's Dept Store that you have worked on the corner the Grand River and Greenfield area. I'm talking about now while you ride from the Grand River Bus. And then write to me in the forum after you see some information. You will see a ghetto Grand River is from Whitcomb St. to Downtown Detroit. | ||
Busterwmu Member Username: Busterwmu Post Number: 224 Registered: 09-2004 Posted From: 24.247.221.241 |
Who's job is it to maintain and resurface Grand River if necessary? Michigan Ave (US-12), Fort (M3 or M85 depending on where you are), Woodward (M1), and Gratiot (M3) are all state or federal trunkline highways. Grand River, which used to be US-16, has no designation today. With that in mind, who's job is it to take care of the road today? |
