 
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 3780
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.223
| | Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 10:01 am: |    |
What are the urban requirements do Oak Park and Hamtramck have. So far they are both culturally diverse cities with a culturally diverse population. What lured these people in any ethnic background to these cities? And how do they effect Detroit and other suburbs? Any thoughts? |
Tomoh
Member
Username: Tomoh
Post Number: 91
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.40.205.183
| | Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 9:49 pm: | |
I wish I knew. The Poles came to Hamtramck for work in the new nearby factory and I thought the Jews came to Oak Park from Detroit fleeing unrest but I don't know why they chose Oak Park. I think their urban forms have quite a few differences. In Hamtramck basically everybody is within half a mile or less walking distance to a main commercial district with storefronts built to the sidewalks (Conant or Jos Campau) and housing is a bit more dense, with less green space. Now, I can't explain why there's continued South Asian immigration to Hamtramck, but I know that the walkable streets with lots of bars is what's attracting the younger generation from the other suburbs to move there. As Hamtramck densifies and gentrifies it'll have a positive spillover effect into the Detroit neighborhoods to the north and east. Highland Park remains a big question in my mind. |
Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 20
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 209.220.229.254
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 12:05 pm: | |
It's only a matter of time before the artists and perhaps the gay community embraces Highland Park. When you see the beginnings of gentrification, it's usually those two groups in on it first. |
Steelworker
Member
Username: Steelworker
Post Number: 599
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 68.79.120.17
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 1:17 pm: | |
oak park has nothing redeaming except generic ranch homes similar to south warren and eastpointe. |
L_b_patterson
Member
Username: L_b_patterson
Post Number: 288
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.229.203.121
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 1:47 pm: | |
^i second that
well the vietnamese karaoke bar is alirght too |
Mrsjdaniels
Member
Username: Mrsjdaniels
Post Number: 159
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 69.221.67.104
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 7:50 pm: | |
hey i live in OP! :-) |
Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 25
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 209.220.229.254
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 11:30 am: | |
OP's current draw is location and affordable housing. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 6929
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.251.24
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 11:41 am: | |
quote:well the vietnamese karaoke bar is alirght too
Closing down over some liquor license thing. I believe OP voters approved an ordinance that beer can not be sold by the glass or soemthing like that.
2000 Census Demographics:
Hamtamck:
Population (year 2000): 22,976, Est. population in July 2004: 22,241 (-3.2% change)
Males: 12,056 (52.5%), Females: 10,920 (47.5%)
Median resident age: 31.5 years
Median household income: $26,616 (year 2000)
Median house value: $71,200 (year 2000)
Races in Hamtramck:
White Non-Hispanic (60.4%)
Black (15.1%)
Two or more races (11.9%)
Asian Indian (5.4%)
Other Asian (4.4%)
Hispanic (1.3%)
Other race (1.1%)
American Indian (1.1%)
Ancestries: Polish (22.9%), Arab (9.4%), Ukrainian (3.2%), German (2.9%), Irish (2.2%), Italian (1.8%).
For population 25 years and over in Hamtramck
High school or higher: 62.2%
Bachelor's degree or higher: 11.5%
Graduate or professional degree: 4.5%
Unemployed: 6.3%
Mean travel time to work: 25.1 minutes
For population 15 years and over in Hamtramck city
Never married: 35.0%
Now married: 43.7%
Separated: 2.4%
Widowed: 9.7%
Divorced: 9.2%
41.1% Foreign born (23.1% Europe, 17.2% Asia).
Population change in the 1990s: +4,546 (+24.7%).
Oak Park:
Population (year 2000): 29,793, Est. population in July 2004: 29,074 (-2.4% change)
Males: 13,947 (46.8%), Females: 15,846 (53.2%)
Median resident age: 34.6 years
Median household income: $48,697 (year 2000)
Median house value: $114,400 (year 2000)
Races in Oak Park:
White Non-Hispanic (46.4%)
Black (46.0%)
Two or more races (4.1%)
Hispanic (1.3%)
American Indian (0.8%)
Filipino (0.7%)
Other race (0.6%)
Vietnamese (0.6%)
Ancestries: Polish (5.7%), German (5.1%), Russian (4.9%), United States (4.0%), Irish (3.5%), English (2.9%).
For population 25 years and over in Oak Park
High school or higher: 82.2%
Bachelor's degree or higher: 27.2%
Graduate or professional degree: 9.8%
Unemployed: 5.4%
Mean travel time to work: 24.5 minutes
For population 15 years and over in Oak Park city
Never married: 32.2%
Now married: 47.0%
Separated: 1.6%
Widowed: 7.4%
Divorced: 11.8%
14.9% Foreign born (9.4% Asia, 3.7% Europe).
Population change in the 1990s: -879 (-2.9%).
From city-data.com |
Steelworker
Member
Username: Steelworker
Post Number: 600
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 68.79.120.17
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 11:47 am: | |
Well i'll be honest only good thing about oak park is my GF lives there. |
Gary
Member
Username: Gary
Post Number: 118
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 66.73.238.5
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 3:33 pm: | |
Oak Park has always had a ciy ordinance prohibiting liquor sales by the glass, hence there are no bars, major restaurants or hotels located there. The Thai karaoke bar on Greenfield was previously part of Royal Oak Twp., therefore its pre-existing liquor license was gandfathered in when that section of R.O. Twp. was absorbed by Oak Park. |
Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 3248
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 9:29 pm: | |
10,000 Bangledeshis came to Hamtramck from Queens, New York City. Rents were too high in NYC and in Hamtramck, they could afford to buy homes.
Jews move every generation in Detroit. When they reached the Detroit City Limits in NW Detroit in the 1950s, their next venure was to Oak Park. Acculturated Jews then moved to Southfield and Farmington Hills, then W. Bloomfield and Novi. Those Jews remaining in Oak Park today are either old retirees or young very Orthodox Jews who prefer to build in one place over longer periods and build long-lasting institutions.
Jews did not move out from Detroit City Limits because of any factor other than their desire to move every 25 years. jjaba predicts in another hundred years, Detroit Jews will all be living along Lake Michigan.
jjaba, seen 'em come and go. |
Arc312
Member
Username: Arc312
Post Number: 9
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 68.41.184.86
| | Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 8:15 pm: | |
The Detroit Jewish News had an article last summer stating that the young Detroit Jewish community would be centered in the Commerce/Walled Lake area within 15-20 years.
While that could very well be the already current trend (which it is), I'm scared that things like that act as a self fulfilling prophecy. The idea of me possibly living in Commerce (confusing roads, lack of a major highway/mass transit unit, distance from the urban core, and tons of old Jewish drivers scares the shit out of me. OY.
I'm convinced, that for the short run for the older drivers, that the roundabouts being built in the FH/WB area are some form of anti-semitism.
Also, Jjaba, what proof do you have that Jewish people just “like to move?” I’m curious. |
Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 34
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 24.192.25.47
| | Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 10:12 pm: | |
^^ Other than history? You just said it yourself, your Jewish paper said you'd all be out in Commerce in a few. |
7051
Member
Username: 7051
Post Number: 4
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 70.230.228.187
| | Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 10:56 pm: | |
Actually, the FILIPINO karaoke bar(owned by my friend's dad) was forced to stop selling alcohol and shut down when the ballot issue last fall was narrowly defeated (to allow by the glass alcohol sales). It is NOW in Oak Park and closed! He lost his ass on this well established bar but will be reopening in Ferndale by summer. |
Gary
Member
Username: Gary
Post Number: 119
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 69.221.78.47
| | Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 11:45 pm: | |
7051...I knew the bar had closed after the OP voters turned down the liquor-by-the-glass referendum, but I thought it had remained open during the interim period of time when that section of R.O. Twp. was annexed into Oak Park and the actual election last fall. That's was I was refering to when I said their license was grandfathered.
Sorry to hear that your friend's dad had to absorb such a loss with the closing of his bar. From a business standpoint, he'll probably be better off in Ferndale, anyway. Hope all goes well for him there.
(Message edited by gary on March 09, 2006) |
Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 3259
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 12:37 am: | |
ARC312, welcome to the Forum.
The term Jews use for moving is "the area is played out."
A signal is given, a few people move, and suddenly there's a massive departure of a community. For a current example, try Southfield, Michigan. Compare the census of 1990 with year 2000 and call jjaba in the morning.
You'll have your proof.
These data correspond to the generations. (25 years is a generation.) Younger families are formed, and they move to the next adjacent town, community, or in Detroit, neighborhood.
Detroit Jewish social ecology settlement patterns began at St. Antoine and the Detroit River and moved north on the Eastside to Clairmont. Then, jumped over to the Westside to 12th St., Linwood, Dexter up to W. Davison. Then, leapfrogged to W. Mc Nichols, Curtis, W. Outer Drive, then out to Greenfield-Evergreen and W. Seven Mile. In the 1950s, Oak Park was next.
If you need more proof, call jjaba in the morning.
jjaba. Westside Bar Mitzvah Bukkor. |
Hysteria
Member
Username: Hysteria
Post Number: 10
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 12:41 am: | |
jjaba, one of the most memorable things I have seen on the forum was your take on the 'strong Detroit neighborhoods' thread. To try and make your Detroit house more 'Livonia like' in the 1950s is so Americana. |
Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 3263
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 1:11 am: | |
Thanks Hysteria. jjaba has experienced alot and tries to share the truth. Welcome to the Forum with your 10 posts. Please keep posting and learning.
jjaba's father immigrated from Ukraine and moved to Detroit in 1928, taking a job in Detroit, very close to Hamtramck. jjaba has lived with much knowledge about the city.
jjaba, Westsider. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 3790
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.223
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 9:28 am: | |
jjaba is absolutely right about how all the ethnic Jews moved from Detroit to the OC cities with in 100 year period. Also when the ethnic Jews continue their exodus to the promise land across 8 mile Rd. also known to them as the Jordan River, the black folks most from Detroit followed. If you can log on SEMCOG or log on to M.I.M.I.C. WSU Urban studies website you will see the pattern that lots of blacks are starting occupy most of Southfield, Oak Park, Lathrup Village for those area used to be predominately ethnic Jewish from the 1960s to 1980s. Now most the ethnic Jews are now Americanized and most of them are up in Bloomfield TWP. West Bloomfield, Bloomfield Hills the northern parts of Farmington Hills, and Commerce TWP. and the black folks are following them too. |
Gary
Member
Username: Gary
Post Number: 120
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 66.73.238.5
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 9:59 am: | |
I was waiting for someone to raise that point, Danny. The traditional migration patterns in Detroit have shown that whenever the Jewsih population moves out of a neighborhood, Black folks tend to follow them in. The best examples are the Dexter/Davison/Linwood corridors, the northwest Detroit neighborhoods and the Southfield/Oak Park areas.
jiaba, I heard at least one theory about this migration that says in the 40s, 50s and 60s, Jews were more likely to sell their homes to Blacks than were non-Jewish whites. Would you agree or is this a generalzation? The old neighborhood covenants that used to be in effect in many neighborhoods that were designed to keep Blacks out apparently didn't apply in Jewish neighborhoods.
Of course, after 1967, the old rules ceased to apply anyway and whites of all ethnic persuasions were all to happy to sell to Blacks (or anyone else) and get the hell out of the city. At least that's the way it happened in my neighborhood. |
Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 3266
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 3:26 pm: | |
Jewish people are quite liberal. They have never insisted on housing discrimination against blacks in Detroit once the signal is given and the generation moves to the next town.
We are in the census as whites, but we do not hold the values similar to other white ethnics about racial discrimination in housing.
This is certainly borne out in the census as illustrated by Ghettoman. In Detroit history, there were many conflagrations when blacks bought "in the wrong places" around the City. None of these caes involved Jewish neighborhoods.
jjaba. |