  Reetz12 Member Username: Reetz12 Post Number: 36 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 69.246.61.199 |
Just throwing the idea around...what would you think about closing Monroe between Beaubien and St. Antoine to all vehicle traffic,(I think restaurants could receive deliveries from the alleys?)and infilling the street with brick pavers and benches. This would be an area to just hangout not a park but someplace to chill. As cheesy as it sounds maybe even put a rooftop like Freemont street in Las Vegas. Would this idea work in Detroit? Or would this area be a hangout for after bars closing and cause trouble...but that is what the casino is for right? Just thinking....... Also what is JC Beal..pretending to build in greektown next to plakas | ||
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 177 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 71.227.95.4 |
I can't even imagine the number of panhandlers if they had comfortable benches to sit on. =) If it was done it would have to include access for emergency vehicles. It would also make it more difficult for disabled or elderly. That and impossible to drop off/pick up people at the doors, but it would look pretty cool. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 975 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.122.204 |
Studies have shown that when you close a street to through auto traffic (i.e., create a pedestrian "mall"), the commercial viability of the street dies. In other words, it becomes a dead zone and businesses leave. Sounds like a nice idea in theory, but it has rarely worked in practice. (Message edited by Fury13 on March 03, 2006) | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1660 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.212.213.210 |
No more Pedestrian Malls. Haven't you noticed we've been agressively ripping out all the pedestrian malls. They don't work. | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2778 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.209.149.54 |
Absolutely not. Mt. Clemens tried this throughout their downtown, and it died. Besides which, that stretch of Monroe doesn't need any "improvements." It's one of the liveliest strips in downtown, and has been for decades. If anything, they need to figure out why Monroe didn't shrivel up and die, and carry that over to the rest of downtown, to make it recession-proof. | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 539 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.214.106 |
Pretending? I don't know what that means, but there is a new restaurant going into the old Monroe bakery/grocery building. Construction is now underway. | ||
Skamour Member Username: Skamour Post Number: 217 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 69.136.145.142 |
"Studies have shown that when you close a street to through auto traffic (i.e., create a pedestrian "mall"), the commercial viability of the street dies. In other words, it becomes a dead zone and businesses leave. Sounds like a nice idea in theory, but it has rarely worked in practice. " I suggest that every forumer one day takes a walk through any European city, and especially any Central European city. You will then realize that not only is this viable, but these areas tend to be the most vibrant and populated. Granted, there exist certain distinctions and differences between the American and European urban planning models, but there's is one that I would more than whole heartedly mimic. There is nothing better than taking a stroll down the long auto-less streets of Budapest or along the river in Ljubljana, two cities where man is king, not his motor! Hoping someone sees that light... | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5349 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.156.92.83 |
Two words: Washington Boulevard. | ||
Iddude313 Member Username: Iddude313 Post Number: 13 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 70.236.172.70 |
Back in Austin they close down 6th street for several blocks but only on Saturday night. Its been done that way as long as I can remember. You can actually socialize and hang out in the wide streets. As far as Greektown goes, I can't stand driving down Monroe. Half the cars on the street are not moving anyway. I'd rather walk. Detroit will never be a walking town. So it would never work here. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 977 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.122.204 |
Skamour, it may work in Europe, but historically, it hasn't worked in the U.S. The biggest bomb of this type was when Chicago tried the State Street Mall in the '80s-'90s. It killed the street. Luckily, the city fathers there opened it up to traffic again, and the street has been reviving ever since. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1842 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.105.129 |
Skamour, part of the reason it seems to work so well in Europe is that most pedestrian areas tend to be in the "Altstadt" or the narrow street old town areas of most European cities. That also happens to be the tourist areas where all the historic attractions are. Also Europeans have a totally different mindset when it comes to walking. Europeans do a lot of walking, while American's tend to avoid it like the plague. | ||
Kilgore_south Member Username: Kilgore_south Post Number: 23 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 24.176.20.117 |
Like others have said, for whatever reason pedestrian malls hardly ever work in this country. They tend to have the opposite effect of what their planners intended. My own little city of Kalamazoo installed the very first pedestrian downtown mall in the country, way back in the '50s. Some people even call K-zoo the Mall City (yuck). Anyway, the mall totally killed a formerly lively Burdick Street. But because it's 'historic' I don't think we'll ever get rid of it. SO, please please don't mall-ify Monroe St. It's one of the liveliest parts of Detroit; a mall would just make it into a dead zone. (Message edited by Kilgore_South on March 03, 2006) | ||
Hysteria Member Username: Hysteria Post Number: 2 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
Kilgore_south, I didn't realize K-zoo still had the pedestrian mall. I believe it was the model for most of the other urban pedestrian malls. My home city of South Bend, IN, tried the same thing on Michigan Street. Didn't work. In fact, it killed the area. I agree with others. Leave Monroe as is. | ||
Kilgore_south Member Username: Kilgore_south Post Number: 24 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 24.176.20.117 |
Re: the Kalamazoo mall - they've actually allowed one lane of traffic through one block of it, one way only. But there are still a couple of blocks that are totally car-free (along with business-free storefronts). | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3274 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
If done right, pedstrian malls on forumer automobile streets can work, but it has to be very well planned, and take into account traffic patterns and all sorts of factors. Lansing's Washington Square Mall was a complete flop for the sole fact that they filled in 3 blocks of which there was only one or two retail establishments pretty much meaning that after 5, the mall was completely dead. They are correcting this, though, and have already ripped and and rescaped the 100 North Black, they now have to get to 200 and 300 before they hit Lansing Community College, where they gave up their right of way a few years back. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1487 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 70.227.207.76 |
Closing Monroe Street between Brush and St. Antoine on weekend nights during the summer would not be a bad idea. Given the amount of pedestrian traffic in the summer, closing the street to car traffic would enhance the atmosphere of Greektown along that two block section. It would be like Bourbon Street after dark or like it was during the Winter Blast/Super Bowl. If folks could carry their drinks along that stretch, like they did during the Winter Blast/Super Bowl, then that would also be a plus. | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 359 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.136.144.196 |
Closing off Monroe at selected times isn't a bad idea. But turning into full a pedestrian mall would make it inconvenient durning off peak hours killing the street. | ||
Taj920 Member Username: Taj920 Post Number: 94 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 68.42.252.205 |
Wasn't Woodward Avenue closed off for a while in the 70s or early 80s? Only now is it starting to recover. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1489 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 70.227.207.76 |
Woodward was never closed. There were plans to close it at Grand Circus Park and turn it into a mall with a roof, but that never happened. The only thing that came out of the plan was the narrowing of the street and the widening of the sidewalks. | ||
Jdkeepsmiling Member Username: Jdkeepsmiling Post Number: 47 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 69.216.99.9 |
I think they should defintely close down Monroe during the weekends, maybe startign at 4pm. THis would tempt more people who aer there already, to wander over to some other attraction. I also beleive that, like during the Superbowl, when the street is closed down, there can be crinking in the street. It would give this tiny slice of Downtown a very vibrant atmoshpere. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 2825 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.252.13.225 |
Sorry Royce, It was a pedestrian mall closed to auto traffic, buses were still permitted through. | ||
Bibs Member Username: Bibs Post Number: 462 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
The main reason a pedestrian mall will not work in the US is Americans will drive ten miles to go to a health club to run on a tred mill. | ||
Austinjohn Member Username: Austinjohn Post Number: 276 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.113.22.101 |
I grew up in Jackson and the city had a downtown pedestrian mall along three or four blocks of Michigan Ave during the 70's. They tore it all out in the mid-80's and opened the street back up. While in place, one store after another moved to the mall. The local department store Field's was one of the last to go after being on Michigan Ave for years. The retail trade picked up downtown after the mall was removed, and a few building have been restored. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 18 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 209.220.229.254 |
Memphis also closes Beale St. on certain nights (perhaps all weekend nights, I was only there for a night). Police just close the street, so emergency vehicles could still get through if needed. As mentioned, this allows drinking in the street and turns the block into a big festival that is like a poor-man's Bourbon St. | ||
Rayraydetroit Member Username: Rayraydetroit Post Number: 5 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 67.72.98.45 |
I remember Woodward being closed except for buses. | ||
Sailor_rick Member Username: Sailor_rick Post Number: 115 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 12.2.192.223 |
During weekend nights, Houston also closes a few blocks of “Main Street” in a “historic” area full of trendoid clubs bulging with folks of pale-ale tone. There's plenty of Chez-Pud dining establishments serving up Estonian-Kurd delights too. Wasn't Monroe St. closed back in the early days of the Grand Prix? | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1254 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94 |
Monroe street is good the way it is. One of our few intimate streetscapes where pedestrians usually have the right of way, despite the through traffic. Let's focus on growing Greektown onto the neighboring intimate streets. Pedestrian malls are for places where they come naturally, like for scenic areas between landmarks or around institutions like campuses, museums, and hospitals. They do not bode well for retail. Sure, retail should be driven by foot traffic, but there is no reason to cut off vehicular traffic at all times. The Brush mall at the DMC, the Gullen Mall at Wayne, and the Ingalls Mall in Ann Arbor are examples of what a pedestrian mall should be. Now if we want to talk about a pedestrian arcade (i.e. Nickles in Ann Arbor), that would be cool. BTW, what is the status of the NE corner of St. Antoine and Monroe? Is that parking structure going to be replaced with a block of retail with parking up top? |
