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Racist E-Mails Sent To Council Member - 1Super_d114 02-27-06  11:29 pm
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Docmo
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Username: Docmo

Post Number: 12
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 24.8.46.119
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is still the single most important and divisive issue for all of SE Michigan. The CC action of the last 10 days has harmed this area for years. There is clearly no support from the citizens of Detroit to do something about the idiots (BRC, JW and Kwame Kenyatta) who are rerepsenting them.

All I see here from most of the Detroit residents is examples and proclamations that racism exists so it is OK for their leaders to recklessly shout out racism whenever they are challenged in political negotiations. Nice Detroit. I used to believe that it was the state legislature and suburban leaders like LBD who were most responsible for the lack of regionalism in this area. Not anymore. The immature race baiting comments from these incredibly thin skinned leaders of Detroit are, by far, the primary reason this area cannot cooperate. You can yell and scream that LBP is a racist all you want. It does not make it true. Yes, his zoo comment was derogatory. It may not have been very well thought out. It still is simply a barb sent regarding the lack of intelligence demonstrated by the CC. Only in the imaginative minds of some here can you conjure up racism in that remark.

Here is the timeline. The CC feels disrespected and pressured by negotiations for transfer of zoo maintenance to the Zoological Society.

BRC comes out and shows her frustration with the following comment. “The symbolism is that Detroit is a black city and that we’re unable to govern ourselves. So we need an overseer, the state legislature, or what have you, to step in and tell us what we must do and how to do it. “That is a racist attitude. I resent it very much. I’m trying not to let it color my judgments, but we’re not a plantation, blacks aren’t owned by white folks anymore,” said Collins. This single remark set off the firestorm. Any hope for the city from many suburbanites sunk with her divisive remark. This disgust will not likely lessen anytime soon. The lack of any significant outcry from the Detroit residents further disgusts many suburbanites. It is the specific plantation reference that most find so unpalatable. The infernce that suburbanites are akin to slave owners is infuriating. Sure, there is racism. That has been well pointed out in this thread. No one is denying that. The great majority of whites support serious legal reprisals for anyone demonstrating racial intimidation. I fail to see how political negotiations over zoo's future could possibly have made BRC feel as though her situation was the same as a yound slave girl quivering under the whip of a plantation slave owner as he is about to rape her. Just because you felt some degree of racial disrespect, DO NOT equate that with slavery and slave owners. That disrespects the thousnads and thousands of slaves in this country who endured torture, rape, and the complete loss of all their civil rights. There's the rub for most whites. Yeah, blacks have to put up with racial intolerance today. But to equate the racial intolerance you deal with today with what your great, great great grandparents went through is incredibly self-absorbed. BRC's comment was stupid and inflammatory. She should not be left off the hook.

Sometime after this remark is published the idiots from the mortgage company sent a racially intimidatimg email with the "n" word to BRC. They were immediately fired and the author of the remark is under federal investigation for racial intimidation. Appropriate penalty for their stupidty and racial intolerance is doled out.

LBP utters his now famous "(The Detroit City Council) belongs in the zoo, not deciding the future of the zoo," This comment was insensitive and derogatory and in poor taste when given by an elected leader. It is not, however, racist. As LBP said "I can criticize Granholm or Ficano, and it goes with the political territory," he said, referring to Gov. Jennifer Granholm and Wayne County Executive Robert Ficano. "But if you say anything about the City of Detroit leadership, you're automatically a racist." Only in the minds of the CC apologists and the CC itself is it racist. Just because, with good cause, he feels the CC is incompetent does not make him a racist. It is the actions of the CC, not the color of the majority of their skins that led to his derogatory remark. The actions of the CC almost justify his comment, though it was still in poor taste.

The CC then have their Tuesday press conference. To give her a smidgeon of credit, BRC did say she regretted her plantation remark. She then went on to say "People are outraged at the stance taken by L. Brooks Patterson," council member Barbara-Rose Collins said. "We all know his background" - referring to the time in the 1970s when he worked to fight busing in Pontiac - "and we don't think highly of his opinion either." She may not like him personally or his opinion. That is clearly her right as is her right to criticize LBP. Her implication of racism due to LBP fighting busing in the 70s is incredibly weak. Busing in the 70s--give me a break. Monica Conyers did not hide her racist sentiment toward LBP with the following: Council member Monica Conyers stressed this was the time for Oakland County and Southeast Michigan to work together, "not be divided by racist comments by L. Brooks Patterson. Nice way to difuse an exploding situation.

The next day Joann Watson gets into the act with her boycott proposal. “Detroiters should spend money where they live,” Watson said. “It is clear there are layers of disrespect, racism and white supremacy. It’s not about getting along. Racism is a disease in this country. A lot of black folks walk around and deny it. This country got rich on the backs of black folks.” Way to promote regionalism and cooperation. Again, anytime someone challenges these people they cry racism and now white supremacy which harkens to the Neo-Nazi movement. When the suburbs and white are called out as white supremacists, we become angry. Now I am being equated with scum who want to exterminate or at least deport anyone of color or non-Chritianity. Get a fucking life JW. You are crazy.

Now Kwame Kenyatta gets into the act. Kwame Kenyatta called L. Brooks Patterson the "Grand Dragon of Oakland County," a title typically associated with the Ku Klux Klan. This is so deplorable it almost funny. Now LBP is a Grand Dragon and is plotting the lynching of young black males stringing up their naked burning bodies from a tree limb. The KKK is a disgusting group who were able to inflict untold horrors on blacks in the southern US before federal intervention dramatically curtailed this inhumane and nauseating behavior. Now, Kenyatta doesn't like being told he belongs in a zoo and so he lays this inflammatory moniker on LBP. These people are truly out of control. I am so saddened by the lack of outrage from Detroiters.

I do not care what color the leaders of Detroit are. It would be nice though, if the Three Stooges of the CC would not resort to inflammatory race baiting every time someone criticizes them or challenges them during a political negotiation. Worse yet, is this propensity to claim racism which is comparable to the horrors of slavery and KKK lynchings and terror. These leaders of Detroit have disrespected their ancestors who truly did endure the true horrors of racism. By making such outrageous claims every time they are challenged or criticized, they lessen the impact of the racism that is still prevalent today. Detroiters, you should not stand for this inexcusable race baiting by your leaders. It has harmed your city. It has harmed this region. Much of what I have seen on this thread is an apologist remark for their behavior. It again leaves me sad, angry and dismayed.

(Message edited by docmo on March 01, 2006)
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Zulu_warrior
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Username: Zulu_warrior

Post Number: 2562
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.251.27.41
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 11:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Last Human in a Zoo

picture
Ota Benga

picture

"They Belong in a Zoo, Instead of Making Decisions about them" L.B. Patterson
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 3762
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.221
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 1:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That Mayor of New Detroit L.B. Hitler Patterson should belong in the Zoo period.
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Docmo
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Username: Docmo

Post Number: 13
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 24.8.46.119
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 2:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As I can see by most of the posts here, the only disgust with this debacle is with LBP. I am no huge fan of his, but his remark no way had the outright racism perpetrated by BRC, JW and Kenyatta. Calling the suburbs and its leaders plantation slave masters, white supremists, Grand Dragons has left an indelible imprint on the minds of many in this state. While most of us who were appalled by the CC remarks can do nothing regarding Detroit political leadership, there will likely be significant fallout from these racist, inflammatory CC remarks. Those of you who are against the Michigan Civil Rights Initiative better do everything you can to keep this off the November ballot. Assuming it does make the ballot (sure looks like it will), the people of the suburbs and outstate Michigan will well remember the fully racist leanings of the Detroit City Council and will be unlikely to vote to support affirmative action when all you get back from black leaders is unsubstantiated, inflated racist crap. This incessant victimization from the CC makes me sick.

So when MRCI passes, the victims within the City can riot in protest of the racist suburbanites who voted away afirmative action (aka reverse discrimination). Maybe building a wall around the City would not be so bad an idea after all.
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Kimmiann
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Username: Kimmiann

Post Number: 21
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 155.139.50.15
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 3:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Docmo - thank you for your thoughtful and rational posts in this thread. You're not the only one who tires of the "race-baiting". It's unbecoming an elected official, to say the least, whether it be BRC or LBP. More importantly it's counterproductive. I had a boss a few years back who asked me to define politics. His definition was "politics is the art of getting what you want". An interesting aside, this boss got his start in business working for the CAY administration.
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 993
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 136.1.1.33
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Docmo, as a city resident I am equally disgusted with a couple of the city council members along with LBP. Both groups said some needlessly imflammatory things.

I wasn't particularly surprised at BRC's initial remarks... this gave her some cheap publicity regarding control over a city asset, a hot-button issue for her hard-core supporters. Basically the same type of cheap publicity as Warren Mayor Steenbergh and his "Fortress Warren" remarks, just the other side of the coin.

Her remarks don't mean that all or even most of the city council agrees with her remarks, though. I'm resigned to the fact that there will always be a couple of extremists on the council, given the at-large voting system. It doesn't mean that regional cooperation is a lost cause. Now if the council can't come to a compromise on the zoo causing it to close permanently, that would be a major blow.

And to be fair to LBP, he is probably unaware of the story of Ota Benga.
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Matt_the_deuce
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Username: Matt_the_deuce

Post Number: 534
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.14.248.252
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 3:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Docmo - thank you for your thoughtful and rational posts in this thread"

Only if you want to wall the city off I guess... jeeeez
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Zulu_warrior
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Username: Zulu_warrior

Post Number: 2564
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.251.27.41
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Docmo enters the discussion with the idea that the CC is racist and has been at the center of this drama which is harmfuil to the region.

While clearly a passionate view, it is clearly misguided and short-shrift of true understanding of the polictial, social, and economic reality of SE michigan.

The truth is that the Mayor of Detroit made an incomplete proposal to the council. One full of holes and gaps that needed to be filled.

The CC would have been irresponsible to accept this.

But again this is the democratic process, the Mayor Proposes and the Council Disposes.

The matter will be resolved now that he vetting has occurred, but it was a necessary step.

The media calalmity that ensued when the mayor's press team said "We're gonna close the Zoo", is little more than politcal brinkmanship.

This cavalcade of sentiment for the zoo touches all who have ever gone there, but the guilt lies in the lack of willingness for regional support.

Looking at the aforeposted map of those who voted for and against the regional tax proposal basically points to oackland county who said- we dont want to support the zoo with our tax dollars.

Understandible, because taxes are high in Oakland County, that this would occur.

What is not understandible, is that the rationalization of polictial choice relative to detroit is not understood.

Let put this in laymens terms:

Detroit is paying millioons of dollars to feed and house a bunch of animals , when most Detroiters cant get a squad car in under an hour.

That is preposterous.

No one will by the zoo, it cost too much for anyone to by or administer, so what should be the priority:

Feed the bears or by police cars

Feed the snakes or get a fire truck.

Docmo is correct to state the region has suffered a set back, but it is the hidden economic of racism that is to blame. Partcularly with whites, who would not stand for inrtusion into internal political discussions. See the Liviona-Redford debate on the Walmart for proof.

Perhaps Docmo will grow to face his short sightedness- as the affairs of men and safety should take precident over those of animals.

Otherwise, this super bowl moment, when this region could actually move together, will be over sooner than later.

Remeber Ota Benga.....
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Detroiternthemist
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Username: Detroiternthemist

Post Number: 16
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 64.118.149.50
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 4:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I honestly don't think the CC remarks had anything to do with Zoo. Those remarks go back to the School Board take over, the 36th District court merger, and every other issue the State has stepped in and taken over. Also the fact the LBP not the single reason for the decline of Detroit but no doubt will keep his foot on the proverbial neck of the City in order to maintain control over the SE Michigan area. People don't be so naive to think that just because "color only" isn't written over water fountains and KKK aren't marching down Jefferson. That it doesn't exist.
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Angry_dad
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Username: Angry_dad

Post Number: 19
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 71.227.49.60
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 5:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Build a wall around the city?

Leave it to the politicians to do exactly that with words.

Question is do you want to be the mortar and brick that these people use to create this wall?
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Spartacus
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Username: Spartacus

Post Number: 96
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 209.114.251.65
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 5:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Zulu:

I believe it is incorrect to say that the agreement was incomplete and full of holes. I guess we'll see what changes were made and we'll see what exactly was missing.

Also, no one is faulting Detroit for cutting funding for the zoo. I don't recall reading any posts that suggested that the City did not have the right to stop subsidizing the zoo. This is not the issue and entirely misses the point. The State of Michigan stood up and offered funding to ease the transition provided management was transferred in 60 days. The CC (and in your view the Mayor's office) imperiled this money with their no vote. The real issue is "why did they vote no?" Would you agree that if Detroit is no longer funding the zoo's operations then CC should not be able to have a say in where the zoo money goes?

Maybe this belongs on the zoo superthread. In regards to the topic of this thread, does anyone really think that a few coworkers sending a racist email has anything to do with what went on with the zoo?
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3269
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 8:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Angry Dad, building a wall around the city? You're old enough to know that quite a few suburban cities around Detroit built walls of words (psychological), and real phyiscal walls long ago. Who turned their back on who, you say? I admit building the wall that other's already built higher doesn't make things much better, but does it make it any worse?
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Docmo
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Username: Docmo

Post Number: 14
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 24.8.46.119
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Zulu:
Again, I have no real problem with the CC using the political process to negotiate the best deal for the city. I haven't criticized the initial vote. It was the Free Press who called the CC action asinine. The CC did imperil the state money and risked closing the zoo. I suspect, though, that the political process will work out and the zoo will remain open with management under the Zoological Society and the City free of the massive subsidy. There will likely be some small improvements to the City's interest in the deal. That's how politics works. Eventually get the deal done and the whole PR debacle slowly fizzles away. If only Barbara Rose Collins could have kept her fat trap shut regarding slave owners and plantation politics. Then, like lemmings, Joann Watson, Monica Conyers and Kwame Kenyatta spew the same race baiting crap. L. Brooks Patterson is not much better in my book. While his comment was not, in my opinion, specifically racist, it was derogatory and spiteful. The whole race baiting thing is disgusting.

Also, while there is undoubtedly some institutional racism within this region, your example of WalMart in Livonia is a very poor one. A few misguided citizens made racist statements at a planning commmission meeting. They were publicly chastised at the meeting by the Commissioners. The great majority of people protesting Walmart were protesting the 24 hour nature and scope of the proposed SuperCenter. The people in the quiet neighborhood behind the Wonderland site did not want the constant intrusion of delivery trucks throughout the evening. The fact is that the Livonia Planning Commission voted in favor of the 24 hour Walmart. How is that racist? This story actually ends on a happy note for most all involved as the Wonderland site is being redeveloped and WalMart agreed to close its store from midnight to 6 a.m. Sure there are a couple of racist Livonia citizens who aren't happy. Too bad for them. They will have to deal with the Detroit residents who have every right to visit Livonia and give WalMart their money. A couple of racist citizens does not make a racist city. The Livonia elected officials did not condone racist comments at their meeting. They acted responsibly and appropriately. That is far more than I can say for the elected Detroit City Council members.

Also, sorry, Zulu. I had to do a search on Ota Benga. I was unfamiliar with Mr. Benga and the erroneous and racist scientists of his day. I highly doubt if LBP was familiar with Ota Benga either.

Dougw:
I am heartened to see that you and a few others of the city residents on this board are disgusted with the race baiting of these elected officials. I have not had a chance to fully guage an opinion on all the CC members. Ken Cockrel, Jr. does seem to be man of integrity. I hope he uses his leadership to try to rein in the CC extremists. Unfortunately, the ward system seems unlikely to happen anytime in the foreseeable future.

I have followed this forum for a long time. I do so because I truly want Detroit and all of Southeast Michigan to prosper. Yes, I believe the two are irrevocably tied together. I have learned much from the fellow forumers here. I always enjoyed checking out a Detorit gem that I read about on this forum. Within my circle of friends, I am know as the Detroit guy. Ask docmo for directions downtown or a place to eat before the game. Oh, and what's that Campus Martius thing I keep hearing about? I did think of myself as a Detroit ambassador. I was a Super Bowl volunteer. I was almost giddy from the level of regional cooperation we all saw with the SuperBowl. I anxiously anticipated the continuing revival of Midtown and Downtown. I do still believe the Riverfront can be a catalyst for the prosperity of the entire region.

That high all came crashing down for me with the BRC comments and the lack of any significant fallout for her or her band of racial extremists on the CC. I am almost as disgusted with LBP. I don't live in Oakland county, so I don't have much recourse with him either.

I take back my build a wall around the City comment. I will still likely continue to frequent the City. I am inexplicably drawn to Detroit. I get Detroit and all its known and hidden gems. The fact that I do have a passion for the City and the region is why I have been so animated regarding this debacle. These elected officials have done serious harm to your city and to this region. While I will continue to visit the City, I doubt I'll ever move to the Riverfront with anything like the present CC governing. The problem for the City and all of you good residents of the city is that you need regional support. Downtown needs suburban investment like Rock Financial. You really could use an influx of suburbanites moving into the city to enhance the tax base and general economy. Much of the dining and entertainment is dependent on suburban support. Detroit would benefit greatly from the improbable regional cooperation necessary for mass transit. We all benefit from these things. Apparently the CC hasn't figured any of this out. Detroit is bleeding residents and tax revenue. If the CC closes their eyes and wishes real hard, maybe the deficit will just disappear. They can't see that regional cooperation is the best way for Detroit to prosper. It would be nice if the CC actually tried negotiating and didn't cry racism every time the negotiations got a little heated. I am not saying the City Council should kiss the suburb's or state's ass. Mutual cooperation and respect would be a novel thought. Unfortunately, cooperation means sharing and even giving up some control. Cooperation may even mean a little loss of power. That will never fly with BRC, JW or Kenyatta. Power and not being disrespected by the suburban racists is all that matters to these three stooges of the Council.
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Angry_dad
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Username: Angry_dad

Post Number: 21
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 10:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Angry Dad, building a wall around the city? You're old enough to know that quite a few suburban cities around Detroit built walls of words (psychological), and real phyiscal walls long ago. Who turned their back on who, you say? I admit building the wall that other's already built higher doesn't make things much better, but does it make it any worse?"

You want the answer? The state offered cash to the city to keep the zoo alive. There were conditions. The city couldn't take the cash and piss it away. So the council didn't like that. Now how can that be described as turning their backs? Simple enough? Cash is tight, it's not "disrespect", it's reality. It stinks that politicians have to resort to name calling and innuendo to defend their posistions. Too bad they cannot just act in the best interest of the people that voted for them. But it sure must beat real accountabilty and results.
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Zulu_warrior
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Username: Zulu_warrior

Post Number: 2565
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 10:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I believe where Docmo fails in his discoruse is in the implication of the racism of the council.

The story of Ota Benga, and the subsequent period of minstrelsy, where Africans were portrayed as monkeys, animals, and sub human types is a very sensitive and bitter memory in the collective of Black thought.

Down through the years, such inferences seem not to really leave the American ethos- Planet of the Apes, the King Kong movie, and other such personification of animals, often wind up as twisted elements in the minds of some whites.

Perhaps you have never experienced white peoples inferences to the less than human examples when discussing Black Americans. Perhaps.

Unfortunately, the fault line that LBP crossed is one that doesnt set well with us, and Ms. Collins was well within her right to speak her mind on the issue as such.

IF anyone can deny this truth, please do:

There are those white people who feel that Blacks are incapable of higher order citizenship, like governance- and that they would be better off sequestered in areas that isolated them from the white world.

They make jokes at parties, or in private groups, at barbques and at other gatherings. They do and it is common place.

Even on this board, people make such inferences or statements.

It is not acceptible behavior. In light of other achivenments.

The other matter that comes into play is control. How many white persons, with in reach of my key strokes, have Black superiors? Have ever had a Black superior?

This is culture privledge is pervasive, so that people feel that a wise decision of the CC is somehow disempowereing to them.

The Lviona city council issue- you missed the analogy, Docmo.

The Redford City Clerk said that Redford was open to Blacks living and shopping here, unlike the unwise elected officials of Livonia.

This statment was not a factual one, but it was made, and Livonians were offended.

I have traveled regularly through these areas and have never once had anyone step out of line with me, But Livonia Has a Racial image problem- being labeled the whitest city of SE michigan.

The Analogy here, Docmo, is that the Redford officials had no official business dealing with Liviona's matters, but did so anyway- because it affects the region- and livonia got mad.

http://www.hometownlife.com/ap ps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060 202/NEWS16/602020733/1033

This region will not move forward until suburban whites get over their incestuous circumlocution of black primal fear and deal with Blacks as intelligent people who make rational decisions.

Giving up control is the issue, but sharing responsibility is an even bigger issue.
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Shave
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Username: Shave

Post Number: 1055
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Zulu,

There have been many times in my life in which I messed up really bad. The running theme was that I was on the outside looking in thinking that if only the person(s) would do it my way it would work. When I actually was given the opportunity to "do it better," I quickly realized the work involved and the challenges, hurdles, and obstacles. I quickly grew bored, angry, and disinterested. My lesson: the mind is brilliant until you have to put it to use.

As always, wonderful information that you so brilliantly share. Thanks.
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Docmo
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Username: Docmo

Post Number: 15
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 24.8.46.119
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 11:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Zulu,
A few things where you are wrong. First, Ms Collins started this mess with her comment to the press on Monday inferring the suburbs/state as plantation slave owners. This was the first comment immediately after the council voted down the KK administration proposal. LBP made his statement Tuesday morning on WJR. Therefore, BRC was not responding to any alleged/imagined racist comment. She just blurted out her racial victimzation crap because she did not like how the zoo negotiations went. The email from the mortgage company guys was sent after and in response to the BRC's racist hate mongering statement. My biggest gripe with the mortgage co. guys, other than they are racist idiots, is that they managed to take the heat off BRC. Oh, some nobody sent a racist email with the "N' word to BRC--see all white people are racist. That is your way of thinking. You will never see the damage or acknowlege the barriers caused by the racial victimization so adroitly manifested by BRC. Elected leaders always crying racial victimization grows old very fast.

You argue strongly that LBP made a racist statement. He was responding to the CC vote and, just like the Freep, he felt their actions were asinine. He used the zoo analogy only because it was the subject at hand. I would absolutely buy your argument if he made a zoo/ape/animal derogatory statement if the zoo wasn't directly the subject at hand. Again, his statement was divisive and inflammatory. But, it was not racist. That is your problem. You imagine all derogatory comments as racist. Someone questions you, and they are a racist. You and your CC leaders. Your leaders make stupid decisons and when they are criticized it must only be because they are black. Zulu, you are obviously a very intelligent person. You have my respect for your intelligence. I just question some of your convictions.

There is no primal fear of black intelligence in the white community. The number of extremely gifted blacks in this country is far more than could ever be covered here. We (speaking generally for whites) do not fear blacks or their intelligence or their leadership. There is no problem with governance by blacks. I see this country's two most recent Secretaries of State of examples of blacks who are held in extremely high regard for their intelligence and governance. It is not that blacks lack any intelligence or leadership. It is that, sometimes, blacks do not make rational decisions. Their decisions may be clouded with a ingrained sense of victimization. Their decisions may be clouded with a misguided beleif that all whites do not trust and respect them as intelligent humans. Black people went for centuries in this country without any political power. Now that they have political power in many cities of this country, the overriding issue of importance is the maintenance of that power. Not giving into the white suburbs or the white state government or the white corporation, even if that small sharing of power could significantly benefit their constituents. Don't let anyone interfere with our crappy schools--they're our crappy schools and we are not going to let some rich white guy give us $200,000,000. The main thing is we still have full control/power of our crappy schools. It doesn't really matter that our children won't have the opportunities they might have had had we accepted this generous gift. Power and control over children's education. That is the type of irrational decsions that have been made that make people question some of your governance decsions. Again, you have me convinced. Your argumentive discourse here is laudable. I bow to your obvious intelligence. It is simply some of your opinions that I question.

Oh, by the way, my senior partner is black and has acted as a mentor to me for many years. Until I turned 40, I always greeted him as Dr. C. as sign of my immense respect for his intelligence and wisdom. It is precisely that wisdom that I believe is lacking in the Detroit CC extremists and, quite possibly, also in you, Zulu.

(Message edited by docmo on March 02, 2006)

(Message edited by docmo on March 02, 2006)
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Zulu_warrior
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Username: Zulu_warrior

Post Number: 2566
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 11:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sonqoba Simunye, Shave. (bowing low)
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Orignal_d
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Username: Orignal_d

Post Number: 4
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 69.222.11.226
Posted on Thursday, March 02, 2006 - 11:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To the members of the Detroit City Council from a Black man.

I am tired of every last one of you time wasting, money burning, over-paid clowns. Since I have been voting and watching politics I have not seen one positive thing come out of city council and as far as I'm concerned none of you need a staff, none of you need exspence accounts, vehicles or such high salaries. You may say that this is a difficult job to do, however since none of you are actually doing any thing except making yourselves look foolish, you do not need the afforementioned amenities. Detroit looks almost the same as it did after the 1967 riot, and if you do not believe me take one of your older constiuents and/or an older staff member on a drive down one of Detroits' main drags, you can even choose the road, be it Rosa Parks Blvd., Grand River, Linwood, Dexter Avenue, etc. You will find buildings that have been in the same burned out dilapidated shape since the streets cooled in '67. Why in a city that is riddled with crime are police officers being laid off? Why in a city this large are fire trucks being de-commissioned and firemen being laid off? City workers have been making sacrifices for years, and why does the little guy always have to make the sacrifices? What happened to the playgrounds, and the swim-mobile, what happened to city sponsored little leagues? If you say these things are too expensive, why can't some of you take pay-cuts for real, (not the fake ones , where you first vote yourselves a huge raise and then take a minute pay decrease), be not deceived we are watching. If you are wondering about my age I am 47 years old and I remember Detroit before and after the riot. I remember neighborhoods along Woodrow Wilson, and the former Twelfth street. Neighborhoods with tree-lined streets, bustling businesses, and families that were, for the most part happy, the majority of my child hood years were spent at 1570 Richton between Woodrow Wilson Avenue and the Lodge freeway, after my parents divorced and we were forced to move, our family lived in different parts of the city. Gratiot-I94 area on Bessemore street, Atkinson Street in the Boston-Edison historic district and the W.Grand Blvd. Rosa Parks Blvd. area on Ferry Park. I love Detroit and I'm tired of hypocritical two-faced politicians who come into office with less than honorable intentions. If this is not you, members of the city council, "I'm from Missouri", show me.
Prove us infidels. Do something for the city that employs you, do some thing for Detroit. Remember we don't owe you, you owe us.
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Barebain
Member
Username: Barebain

Post Number: 5
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 66.208.220.242
Posted on Thursday, March 02, 2006 - 11:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Docmo,
It is interesting that you bring up the point that African Americans have not had political power in this country until recently. In fact, Blacks did have a good deal of political power in the South during the decades following the Civil War. After the war was over, African Americans used their new freedoms and voting rights to put their leaders into political power. For a short while, the South looked as if it had survived its most horrible place in history.

Of course, we know this didn't last. Black leaders were soon accused of corruption, political favoritism, grandstanding, etc. (sound familiar?) It is during these decades that the KKK rose to power in all areas of Southern society. Its attitudes and actions ran wild in these years, rolling over the burgeoning Southern Black Society. In a short time, those first leaders of the Black south, it congressmen and council members, had been removed from office and subjected to Jim Crow laws. What promised to be never was, and soon after, Southern Blacks would begin the great migration to the North... to places like pre-WWII Detroit, in search of the promise of jobs, freedom, and respect they knew they would not find in the South.

Can you honestly say, in your estimation, that we gave it to them?

Whites have done much to sully their reputation over the years, and yet Western European White Society still rules the world. We have the power and are not willing to give it up. This much has been proven.

I understand that you were hurt by the words of the Detroit City Council members, but Blacks have been hurt by much much worse both in their history and today. We need to be able to get past all of this history in order to have a real discourse about the shape of our society. However, I believe that we are far from being able to have that discussion on equal footing. The wounds still burn too fresh and run too deep.

We, as whites, still need to listen more than we preach. Ms. Collins said some things that stung me a bit, but in listening to them, I fear that I heard an ounce of truth buried deep in her words.


Zulu,
Thank you also for your considerate words. And while your timeline may have been off, I fear that your sentiments were not.

In answer to your question: I am 30, and have had one Black supervisor in 15 years of different jobs. It was my first job, it only lasted one summer, and I have not had a black supervisor since. In addition, I would like to add to your informal poll the question of whites having African American teachers in their lives. The answer is equally un-nerving. From pre-school to grad-school, (roughly 100 teachers in 20 years of schooling) I have had two black teachers. TWO! Based on the demographics of our society, I should have had 10 times that many.

Zulu, I believe you have made your point.
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Docmo
Member
Username: Docmo

Post Number: 16
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 24.8.46.119
Posted on Thursday, March 02, 2006 - 12:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Orignal_d,
Glad to see you are challenging the ineptitude of the Detroit City Council. There may be a few intelligent and reasonable minds on the couincil, but it appears today's version is dominated by spiteful, contemptuous people who have little regard for the prosperity of the Detroit.

Barebain,
Yes, the history of African Americans has been exceedingly difficult in this country. Some, great African Amercian leaders have risen above this difficult history rather than to let their spite for the past drag them down. The problem with some on this City Council is they carry this anger from the past very openly. It colors everything they do. It leads to their ingrained victimization. It leads to their incredible lack of trust and to their constant cry for entitlement. It leads to their pandering to the most bitter base of their constituency. They are successful politicians who keep getting re-elected by screaming whitey/suburbia is a racist and whitey/suburbia hates us. You have given some of the reasons in African American history that may have led to this bitter victimization. The only problem is, though, this is exactly the type of politician who will drag Detroit down to its death. Politicians need to create bridges. They need to compromise. They need to lead and not simply pander to a disenfranchised base. They have to develop some thick skin and not resort to racial mud slinging every time a negotiation is dificult. Much of what I am saying also applies to suburban and state politicians. Unfortunately, BRC and JW have none of these qualities. They are a weight around the neck of a gasping/tiring City of Detroit who is struggling to stay afoat. They are the ones who are building the wall around Detroit. It is their bitterness and racial victimzation and verbal mud slinging that is sequestering only the poor and the truly committed in this city. Much of the black upper/middle class is moving out. The city shrinks every day. Why? Those former residents have seen inept city government and services for far too long. It is the ineptitude and bitterness of the CC that is driving these people out. Detroit is facing incerdibly difficult decisons. It must contract and prioritize city services within the ever shrinking tax revenues. How is this City Council ever going to accept any assistance from state/suburban resources which may require sharing control? Will we have to repeat the last two weeks for evry council decison? The city needs to privatize some service to better provide the residents and release a major expense from the budget. Not with this CC. They aren't giving up their power, even if it drives the City into receivership. That will be fine these individuals, because then they can take their obvious political skills to the people and pander how the State is a bunch of racists who just want to control black people. It wil probably get the elected to congress. They will become heroes to the poor who cannot afford to leave the City and will become a sad afterthought to the hundreds of thousands of black upper/middle class who will have left and moved on to the suburbs where they have better schools for the kids and city services that actually work.

The mayor is a black politician who, I believe, has risen above the bitterness and has the capability and charisma to lead this city by embracing regionalism. Unfortunately, he is unlikely to accomplish much when he constantly has to knock heads with the imbittered, victimized and racially animated extremist members of the Detroit City Council. Kwame had the capability to ride out all his scandals and still provide leadership. Where he will likely fail is in having to deal everyday with this CC. I can't believe how frustrating it must be for him to watch his city deteriorate simply because of the bitterness of the people on the Council.
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Eric
Member
Username: Eric

Post Number: 352
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 35.11.210.161
Posted on Thursday, March 02, 2006 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jack Lessenberry wrote great article yesterday pretty much sums up this zoo mess

Barrels of ink have been spilled over the Detroit zoo controversy, and nearly everyone who has written about it has missed the real meaning. This is not really about the zoo. Not at all. (The zoo will be saved in the end.) What this is actually about is one central blinding and horribly dismaying truth — that blacks in the city and whites in the suburbs intensely and viscerally fear, distrust and loathe each other.

Which, if it doesn't change, means a death sentence for Detroit.

http://www.metrotimes.com/edit orial/story.asp?id=8943

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