Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning January 2006 » Could midtown use it's own Campus Martius Park? « Previous Next »
Top of pageBottom of page

Mind_field
Member
Username: Mind_field

Post Number: 497
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 209.240.205.61
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 9:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wondering what forumers' thoughts are on the matter. Would an iconic, well designed public park be as successful in midtown as Campus Martius Park is in downtown? Midtown has an established residential base and a solid employment base with Wayne State and the DMC. The cultural institutions bring in a lot of people as well. But the dynamic in midtown is different. Woodward is much wider without the canyon effect that downtown has. Also, employment isn't nearly as concentrated in midtown as it is in downtown.

Two locations that seem to be in the middle of, or close to, a lot of activity are Woodward and Mack or Woodward and Warren. At Mack, the park would be used by Ellington residents, DSO and Max Fisher patrons, maybe DMC employees and Brush Park residents. At Warren, Wayne State, DIA and Science Center would provide park users. But would a park in the middle of a traffic circle ruin the traffic flow at these intersections? Would the park fail as a great urban space?

If you were to tell me in the year 2000 that the intersection of Woodward and Michigan Avenues would become one of Detroit's most vibrant districts, I would have laughed you out of the room.....but look what happened.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jdkeepsmiling
Member
Username: Jdkeepsmiling

Post Number: 33
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 208.50.91.234
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 9:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with you that Midtown could use some kind of defining urban space. I don;t know if a park is the answer though. I think the problem you run int at any of the intersections you mention is land aquisition. How can you put it at Woodward and Mack, The Max and The Ellington go right up to the street. I feel that since midtwon is really just starting to develop into a cohesive urban neighborhood, maybe you give it a little more time to naturally find its center and the place where people naturally gravitate. I think it is a good idea, maybe just a tad premature.
Top of pageBottom of page

Dialh4hipster
Member
Username: Dialh4hipster

Post Number: 1429
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.61.187.234
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 10:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Midtown functions differently than downtown, so I am not sure it needs the same kind of defining urban space. It's more neighborhoody, and full of cultural and educational institutions, so there really no lack of open space.

I don't like to get sucked into these hypothetical discussinos, but the one thought I did have is that if you continue the NYC analogies people like to make (Campus Martius = Rockefeller Plaza), then something like Washington Square Park might be an appropriate model.

(Message edited by dialh4hipster on February 15, 2006)
Top of pageBottom of page

Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6736
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.251.24
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 11:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Midtown does have some nice open spaces in front of the library DIA, near/next to CCS. There is plenty of open space and not the same level/type of density during the work day and for events as downtown.

As I see it midtown has plenty of spots for a nice picnic so I don;t think any new green space is necessary as it does not need a central point like downtown.
Top of pageBottom of page

Iddude313
Member
Username: Iddude313

Post Number: 10
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 69.212.42.247
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 12:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

isn't there supposed to be some sort of "green loop" idea being developed for Midtown?
Top of pageBottom of page

Quickdrawmcgraw
Member
Username: Quickdrawmcgraw

Post Number: 45
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 63.77.247.130
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 12:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In addition to replacing the streetlamps to the 1920's style era streetlamps along Woodward, the need for trees and added greenery would be nice. Maybe some pocket parks if there are not going to be development along the way. And I do remember seeing that green loop around Midtown proposal.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lurker
Member
Username: Lurker

Post Number: 1584
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 65.196.220.198
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 12:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Midtown Loop rendering:

http://www.detroitrising.com/i mages/greenway3.jpg
Top of pageBottom of page

Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13

Post Number: 896
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.222.11.226
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 1:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ideally, we'd have a landscaped "Central Park," maybe bordered by the Fisher Freeway on the south, Woodward on the east, Park Avenue on the west, and Charlotte on the north.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rotation_slim
Member
Username: Rotation_slim

Post Number: 35
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 24.221.70.68
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Keep in mind, CM works for one reason, and one reason only. It is privately owned and priveately run. The city leaders can not touch it... therefore can not screw it up.. that is why it works.

To have a similar success at midtown you would need some non-governmental entity step up & make it happen... otherwise you'd end up with the "Bobby Ferguson Park" or perhaps a parked named "3 big headed boys park"

Ask yourself this question, how does that CM space, which is about as big as a basketball court become the center of Detroit, when you have THE most incredible urban space in the country, Belle Isle sitting there fallow.. easy, Government screws stuff up.

Maybe it should be renamed "Penske Park" and give Rog the keys.. he'd get it fixed!
Top of pageBottom of page

Treelock
Member
Username: Treelock

Post Number: 86
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 68.77.166.98
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Midtown — oh, shit, let's call it what it should be called — The Cass Corridor I don't think lags that far behind downtown in terms of being a jobs cluster. There are many large employers there: Wayne State, the DMC (both administration offices and its various hospitals), VA Hospital, DIA, Charles H. Wright museum and the other museums and cultural attractions, CCS, Cass Tech and Performing Arts high schools to name the biggies. They are a little more spread out than downtown, however.

One area I'd love to see become a focus even if it's not exactly centralized within these job bases: The diag in front of the Masonic Temple. Granted, the surrounding neighborhood is pretty seedy, but the park is absolutely beautiful and could rival anything found in Boston or NYC. And it's surrounded by some gorgeous architecture. It's not unconceivable that in several years, the surrounding neighborhood starts to rebound.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jfried
Member
Username: Jfried

Post Number: 718
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.190
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 3:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

how about continuing the focus on cleaning up the parks we already have? cass park, veterans park, john R @ watson, the park behind the DIA - these are all great neighborhood spaces that just need a little attention. there is also a lot of open space on the wsu campus, and the athletic fields west of the lodge.

and I can't wait to see the compeletion of the midtown loop!
Top of pageBottom of page

Bagman
Member
Username: Bagman

Post Number: 31
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 71.144.83.56
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

remember that Campus Martius is a PRIVATE park.

I would like to see public open areas.

There is a great piece on PBS about parks and open spaces. It shows how black folk have used parks and open spaces and how the white establishment would use these parks and open spaces to keep the blacks in one area or seperate black and white via the parks
I think it was called OPEN SPACES, I will look for more info on the program, I have seen it twice, and it is very informative, it also covers Belle Isle
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 1776
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.72.79
Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK, we have this discussion from time to time....

Midtown is not the same thing as Cass Corridor. The Cass Corridor is a subset of Midtown.

The Cass Corridor is the western third of Midtown. The Woodward Ave. corridor and Brush Ave. corridor (although not known by those names) make up the rest of Midtown. For example, Brush Park, the DIA and the DMC were never in the Cass Corridor.

The Midtown folks want to permanently eradicate the term "Cass Corridor" because it symbolizes drug use and prostitution. I whole heartedly agree.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gravitymachine
Member
Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 860
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 198.208.159.18
Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 4:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree, there is plenty of under utilized public space in midtown already....I also agree about the assertion about cass park, some great and very different buildings around it.

midtown is defined by 75, 94 and the lodge and/or grand river is is not? thats a hell of a lot bigger area than the "cass corridor"

(Message edited by gravitymachine on February 16, 2006)
Top of pageBottom of page

Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1202
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 141.213.173.94
Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 5:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just make Woodward more pedestrain friendly. Getting more retail there is key, but I would propose making, at the very least, Woodward two lanes in each direction (with no street parking between Farnsworth and Ferry) with a large divider with a small plaza in the center. A more elaborate (and larger, since Woodward is so wide) version of N. University in Ann Arbor, in the Hill Auditorium/Diag area, is what pops into my mind. This would contain more than one pedestrian crosswalks, making all of midtown, east to west, easily walkable, and really tying the DIA and Library together. Bring the speed limit down to 15 mph between Warren and Ferry, also.

Or we could do something more elaborate that really announces that Woodward between the DIA and DPL is the center of midtown. A smaller take on Campus Martius would work. As great as Detroit's street layout is, I wish we had something like Philadelphia's Ben Franklin Parkway from downtown to the Art Institute, because it is so grand. I could see a little CM-like park in the center of Woodward with a sculpture or something announcing the center of midtown and the road taking the shape of a Euro-style turning circle right there...be BOLD!
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 1779
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.72.205
Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 6:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mackinaw, the only problem I have with your median for Midtown is the Thanksgiving Parade route. Will it be JUST downtown in the future? Or will Midtown continue to be a part of it? If so, a median could be a problem.

But I do like your idea about something spectacular for between the DIA and DPL.

Also, I have seen historic photos of Philadelphia when they built that avenue between downtown and their Art Institute. They even had to tear down a hospital to put in that road.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 282
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.139
Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 6:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hate to be a wet blanket, gang, but let's get the C of D back on a sound financial footing well before we blow money they haven't got. And that's probably a decade down the line.

A balanced budget is Job Number One.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1417
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 7:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mackinaw,

You've got me thinking.

I would modify your proposal to be between Farnsworth and Kirby. That is really where the open space is.

As an engineer who studied transportation planning, I would caution you that changing the speed limit alone will do nothing to make it safer. Other techniques can be used to bring down speeds and give pedestrian's higher priority.

This is my really (really) rough idea, executed using a Google Maps image and MSpaint.

MSpaint Sketch

The challenges and pitfalls would be making sure that there is a sufficient turning radius where necessary. (Remember that Woodward carries truck traffic here.) We also have to be really concerned about sidewalk width, mostly at the corner of the Maccabees building and the Park Shelton. I don't believe sidewalks are currently sufficient there now.

We also have to make sure that the areas in the middle of traffic are large enough and the traffic around them slow enough to make it inviting to both be in the area and to cross the street to get to it. I estimate that the diameter of these circles is a tiny bit over 100.'

It looks to me that Campus Martius is about 150' wide and much longer. Maybe these circles would need to be stretched to the middle to make them more ovals.

Not only is the size of concern, but programming. What can be put in there that will draw people? Fountains? Large Art? It would be a challenge.

Of course this would mean that the DIA would loose their sacrilegious valet parking situation.

(https://www.detroityes.com/art/01diadecay.htm)
(https://www.detroityes.com/art/02diathinker.htm)

Finally, large parcels of surface parking in the area should be redeveloped at higher density in order to really make this a vibrant place. A few more occupied buildings in the scale of the Park Shelton and Maccabees would do a lot for the area. But who would fill them? I'd suspect that a finished DIA and privately funded circle park system would enable a pretty good absorption rate for residential, maybe even some limited office.

The UCCA is doing great things. Maybe someday they will tackle something like this. The good thing about this idea is that the window of opportunity isn't really going to close. The land is almost all city owned or ROW. It isn't like a parking garage might be built in front of the DIA next year....I hope.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1418
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 7:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BTW - Logan circle in Philly is about 200' diameter.

The circles I just looked at in DC are also about 200.'

(Message edited by jsmyers on February 16, 2006)
Top of pageBottom of page

Ro_resident
Member
Username: Ro_resident

Post Number: 146
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 63.85.13.248
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 10:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is an interesting proposal. However, Woodward at that point is a state trunkline. Woodward at Campus Martius is a city road. So you would have to bring MDOT to the table.

An with my experience with MDOT, medians, and roundabouts, they would not want the center island or medians to be public spaces.

One other thing--Campus Martius is a public/private partnership. The city owns the park, while the Detroit 300 Conservancy operates the facility. The mayor has representation on Detroit 300 Conservancy.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gravitymachine
Member
Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 862
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 198.208.159.18
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 10:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

exactly what would carry traffic north south if you stop up woodward like that? cass ave at the height of a shool day at WSU? john R. or brush that have their own school/museum related congestion?

not to mention it would eat up so much real estate to be functional that it would destroy the relationship of those buildings to their surroundings, and destroy some of the "majesty" of both the DIA and DPL
Top of pageBottom of page

Jfried
Member
Username: Jfried

Post Number: 721
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.190
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 10:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

roresident makes a good point. mdot has not been been open to pedestrian activity on any of the traffic circles/roundabouts they have studied - they don't even want trees located on medians if they were not preexisting. they also are not very interested in traffic calming on state trunklines. I don't have recent numbers, but looking at 95 traffic counts between 25-30K car travel that route per day. thats a lot of cars to put through with pedestrians added to the mix.

to put in those large radii necessary to move that many cars would ruin the open space that exists now, and as gravity mentioned the relationship between the buildings.

I like the idea of the median, but there are so many existing open spaces & parks in midtown that could be improved before dropping the huge amount of $ to even look at something like this.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1419
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 11:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You are very right about the difficulty in accomodating both vehicles and pedestrians. I have not carefully considered anything about the design. It is just a response idea to Mackinaw's idea. I'm not even sure if it is a good idea.

As for MDOT, they have been incorporating an increasingly context-sensitive approach since they got a new director. As long as their direction from above doesn't change (maybe even if it does to some extent), they will continue towards helping place making.

One idea to help move through traffic would be to tunnel the through woodward traffic under the whole thing. Of course that makes it go from being expensive to enormously expensive.

I disagree with this though:

quote:

not to mention it would eat up so much real estate to be functional that it would destroy the relationship of those buildings to their surroundings, and destroy some of the "majesty" of both the DIA and DPL



Just like Campus Martius, it would really eat up any more real estate or open space, it would just move it around. As for the "majesty," it would definitely change the way they relate, but that is a matter of opinion.

Because of the symetry of the buildings and the setbacks of the wings, I actually think that it may increase the "majesty." Right now you have two attractive buildings on either side of a highway. (With a parking lot in front of one of them.) Something like this would make it different than the rest of Woodward. In the end, I think whatever is put in the space, and however it is programmed would dictate the "majesty."
Top of pageBottom of page

Futurecity
Member
Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 219
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 68.252.2.146
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jsmyers - Great concept!

However, I would agree that it would be extremely tough to get around MDOT.

MDOT - truly evil engineer car-heads. The ruin of cities and pedestrian environments.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1420
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MDOT is a big ship that will take a long time to turn around.
Top of pageBottom of page

Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1205
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 141.213.173.94
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 3:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jsmeyers, that is great.

I wanted to make a little diagram like that. Kirby was what I meant, not Ferry. I had in mind the street between the historical museum/DPL and the DIA/Park Shelton.

The traffic flow will just be a tad slower, but it shouldn't bunch up any worse. For a nice midtown/cultural center we need to make pedestrians a priority. Crossing Woodward to make a visit to the DIA for art class at Wayne was difficult. Plus i believe there are a couple small businesses on the first floor of the P-Shelton (like a Coffee shop/bakery I think that advertises in the South End) which would like the pedestrian flow of Cass/WSU to wander their way.

Gravity_Machine, the answer to your condundrum is very easy. If you're coming south and it starts getting packed around Ferry, then you can take John R. If its packed going north, Cass or the Lodge, or Anthony Wayne which curves and turns into 2nd going to New Center. If you are leaving Wayne State for I-75 or 94, you take Anthony Wayne to Palmer to Woodward. I commuted to Wayne for a time and I know that, for the students, Cass and A-Wayne are the primary streets used. Tons of students just take the Lodge and then use the structures focused around the Lodge. Slowing up Woodward a bit shouldn't hurt the WSU traffic flow much at all, and will not stop Woodward from being a main thoroughfare for through traffic.

(Message edited by mackinaw on February 17, 2006)
Top of pageBottom of page

Gravitymachine
Member
Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 865
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 198.208.159.18
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 4:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

are you kidding? gettin up and down cass between forest and 94 during a school day is usually a nightmare, what with all the people walking every which way, and cars lined up out of the main parking structure.

john r has its share of bottle necks as well (CCS, DIA, science center....)

as far as the greenspace is concerned jsmyers, its not only the quantity that contributes to the DIA and DPL's "majesty" or stateliness, but its the shape of the lots at well, take some circular sections of of the corners of each lot and you've taken away that relationship between building and lot

(Message edited by gravitymachine on February 17, 2006)
Top of pageBottom of page

Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1422
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 5:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In a matter of speaking Gravity, you are right. You take some of the space away from the DPL and DIA, and you make it separate from the either. It stands on its own.

What happens is instead of having 4 large off in the corner square spaces, you have 4 small yards and two large areas in the middle. Since people have to cross that area to get where they are going on foot, it has the potential to be much more widely used an lively. The spaces on the side that you speak of probably would still be big enough to work as they currently do.

That is changing things, not necessarily good nor bad. I believe that it it were done well, and programmed correctly, the "majesty" that you spoke of would actually be improved.

Notice that I write "may" and "has potential." I'm not sure there is enough room to pull it off. Those spaces in the middle are smaller than most circles. Maybe elongating them would help, and having two mitigates the concern as well. But I'm not sure how many lanes around the circle you would need. I think it would be ideal to send the through traffic under the whole thing (Like Dupont Circle in DC). But of course that is very expensive.

The main thing to me is that right now, design put vehicle traffic first. It is the center of the urban room. It is true that the walls (DIA, DPL, Maccabees, Park Selton, etc) look nice. The room itself is basically a highway.

Doing something like this gives the room a floor, and takes the focus off of the left-turn lane.

Here are some pics of the cirlces in DC (keep in mind they are about 2x the diameter of what I estimated above).

http://www.kestan.com/travel/d c/dup_cir/
http://umcp.org/archive/pictur es/a12/

BTW - I found this ridiculous link while searching for pics:

http://www.theforbiddenknowled ge.com/chapter3/
Top of pageBottom of page

Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1207
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 141.213.173.94
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 7:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Very well said, re: the idea of an urban room.

Gravitymachine, I was commuting to WSU on a daily basis, during peak times, as recently as last spring. It can get a tad hairy, but for a place where nearly 30,000 people gather everyday, things flow awfully well. Even WSU acknowledges that there is more than enough room, why do you think that their master plan proposes narrowing Anthony Wayne Drive by two lanes (and removing some of the parking structures between AWD and the Lodge)? Cass carries two lanes of traffic in either direction and usually works pretty well. The frustration caused by pedestrians is nothing compared to Ann Arbor, and, I have to say, the theme of most of this discussion from where I'm coming from is to make Midtown more pedestrian-friendly, and the chief thing we need to deal with is the Goliath which is Woodward Ave.
Top of pageBottom of page

Futurecity
Member
Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 220
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 69.215.246.45
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jsmyers - The DC Dupont Circle photos really sum it all up. If only we had that here.

Here in our car-head state, it's hard for people to imagine a beautiful and vibrant Dupont Circle environment encroaching on their beloved 12-lane road.

"How will I pilot my enormous Ford Exploitation to and from the parking deck!!" (No need to fear, MDOT will save us from such worries).
Top of pageBottom of page

Gravitymachine
Member
Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 866
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 198.208.159.18
Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 9:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

mackinaw, points well taken, and while I agree that the WSU isn't a complete clusterF like ann arbor, all that traffic that would be choked off of woodward by this pie-in-the-sky greenspace idea has to go somehwere...and that somewhere doesn't seem adequate to handle it in its present state IMO.

jsmyers, I hear what your saying, but the idea still seems like two oversized round pegs in square holes.
Top of pageBottom of page

Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1210
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 141.213.173.94
Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Campus Martius, replete with ice rink and pastry shop on a very small island, seemed awfully pie in the sky not too long ago.

I will say that we NEEDED CM Park. All we need in Midtown is something to bridge the two sides of the cultural center. It may not have to be in grand proportions or divert traffic flow, but it ought to be creative when and if it happens.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6805
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.251.24
Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Midtown is seeing a fair amount of development on its own without a park like catalyst. Use the money to improve neighborhod parks and community centers.

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.