  Audible_nectar Member Username: Audible_nectar Post Number: 67 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 12.217.110.64 |
After composing a thread starting post addressing just how impressed we were from our Super Bowl trip, I want to address some issues that arose. Many of you served as Detroit's best critics on some of these, like People Mover and Shuttle issues, which were to a degree expected, especially given the size of the event. But there are also some issues that should have NEVER existed, and should not exist in the future, because these issues will not only affect the quality of your lives as city dwellers (most important, because you live here), but the impressions of your visitors as well. One issue I worked hard to deal with in advance of our trip was parking. We knew it was at a premium, and felt that Detroit's public transit systems would be overtaxed, and felt the best way to do this was OURSELVES. So we set out to find parking companies who would reserve us space in advance in a nearby downtown lot. We made some calls to local parking companies, to no avail, but then we found our saving grace - or so we thought. An article appeared in the Detroit Free Press, an expose on "Joe Tailgate", and the lot he was inhabiting, operated by "Woodward Parking". The article is here: http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20060129/ENT0505 /601290358/1026/FEATURES After several calls, we made arrangements to purchase reserved parking from Woodward Parking for 4 days (Thursday through Sunday) in the lot at 125 W. Elizabeth. Since they did not accept credit cards, they faxed me a form to return with payment (after much chiding about my "non-union" auto, which should have been my first clue not to deal with these people, but they were all I could find willing to sell space in advance, and I needed that space). And I AM "pro-union", and want better wages for workers - but that's no way to treat visitors, either! I then sent payment that same day (Monday, January 30) express overnight, then verified with the parking company, as well as with the courier that payment had been received. I brought with me to Detroit the fax, the stub from the money order, a computer printout of the confirmation of receipt of the express mail payment, and the names of the people confirming receipt of payment at Woodward Parking, to ensure that there would be no issues with my space in the lot at 125 W. Elizabeth. And I brought this proof in TRIPLICATE. But ohhhhh, were there ever problems. It took 45 minutes to convince the parking lot attendant to let us into the lot on arrival Thursday (almost missing the Pepsi Smash gig, as they closed the doors once the theater was full). Then I get a call on Friday afternoon from Woodward Parking (same person I had all conversations with on this issue, and whom had already verified receipt of payment) stating that they DID NOT have my payment, and that I needed to go to their office on Grace Street to pay the bill, or I would forfeit my space. After explaining to this person that you already verified my payment, the trouble I had parking the night before, and the proof I held in hand, I offered to bring that proof to the main office if necessary, but asked them to check again before I would need to go down there. She then stated "Oh, I'm sorry, I have payment right here, and I assure you there will be no problems for the rest of the weekend". Fat chance. I had the same 45 minute argument on Friday AND Saturday, bringing my Ren-Cen policed badged friend (whom we stayed with) to get us in the lot on Saturday. Then the lot was full and closed at 10AM on Sunday - we paid another $70 on Sunday to park in the lot next door (and then had the driver's side window smashed out when we returned from the game). One big nasty all weekend hassle, courtesy of Woodward Parking. The Woodward Parking that the Detroit Free Press saw fit to do free advertising for in a high demand market. We weren't the only ones having problems. Others I talked to in the area had similar complaints, and we collectively assumed these companies prefer to sell each space twice. They had our money, so why not take someone else's too? Not to mention the "scalping" of space, especially on Sunday, where the lot I parked in changed prices on three separate occasions as it filled, because they could get away with it. The family we stayed with stated that this was no surprise - that this sort of "arm twisting" is pretty standard fare. Even after explaining this to Detroit police officers, I got no help from them, either. They had "bigger problems". If the City of Detroit wants visitors to come back for smaller scale, less "desireable/high profile" events, or just to have a good time Downtown, they need to clean this up. Out of the four Super Bowl host cities attended, this was the BIGGEST parking mess I had ever seen. I understand that space is tight, but someone in your city needs to put the clamps to the parking sharks in town. It's corrupt, plain and simple. There's no way I can come back to Detroit without remembering this - and since I cannot count on public transport, I feel I have to do it myself. Odds are, if I DO come back, it will be to Downtown, especially the Stadiums, and will wonder until the minute I park what kind of racket I'll run into when I get there. Point two: The taxis at Ren Cen....... This was a BIG no-no. I have very good information that taxicabs were boycotting the Ren Cen over the weekend due to the security checks. WHOOPS, you taxi drivers just PO'ed the most important group of people as far as the NFL was concerned - the people at Ren Cen running NFL Headquarters, and the press covering them. Trust me on this one.....this WILL get back to the NFL. And they won't be happy about it. And those angry are those most likely to be listened to by the NFL, because these are people close to the NFL, who are used to working and covering the Super Bowl. Wanna have Super Bowl again? DO NOT get these people angry. MORE than people like me, the city and system wants to BE SURE to make these people happy - as their voices carry the most weight. Point three - The Scalpers, the Police, and the laws....... Having attended so many high profile events, I feel I have a pretty good understanding of how scalping and secondary markets work. My visit to Detroit did nothing to change this. First postulate of any "black market" item: It will be more expensive, and more likely to be bogus, if it is illegal to engage in the sale of that item. And in this instance, it was tickets, tickets, tickets. Not just the Super Bowl, but for many events held throughout the weekend. And of course, the Detroit PD was more interested in someone scalping Kid Rock tickets, than simply informing the buyers that there were tix at the Box Office (a real scalper's bum trip), or doing other more important functions throughout the weekend. In an environment where resale of tickets is allowed, there are more sellers, more competition between those sellers, and more open information exchanged about the tickets being sold. People can banter between sellers and make them all drop price, where if it is driven "underground", the seller pays a higher price, and is more likely to get taken. Even in supposedly illegal to scalp Jacksonville, you could ask for and offer tickets for sale with no issues - as long as your tickets were REAL. This made it easier for people to protect themselves, as buyers and legitimate sellers weeded out the counterfeit sellers and handed them to the police themselves. This protected the legitimate sellers and buyers, and weeded out the sharks - and created a cooperative atmosphere with the police. After all, if a buyer agrees to pay a certain price for a ticket, the buyer and seller DID AGREE, so who gets hurt? No one. I saw LOTS of people with "I got screwed" stories on tickets. Tickets they bought on the streets of Downtown Detroit. If a buyer could have simply asked someone in the crowd if that ticket was legitimate, the buyer could protect themselves. But since it is illegal to engage in an above face value transaction on either side of the deal, everything gets hidden - and more people get ripped off. When Detroit and Michigan have laws like this on scalping, more of the "bad" elements of scalping come to the fore - like people not getting what they paid for. As long as people get what they pay for, what's the problem? Now I dislike paying any more for a ticket than I have to, but as a buyer of tix on occasion when sold out, I know I will pay less in a state like Indiana, which has open resale laws. So in effect, the existence of scalping laws in Michigan creates more corruption/ripoffs/crimes/comp laints than if we get it out in the open. It also allows people like Joel Schwartz at "Big Time Worldwide" to make even more money. Food for thought, especially with coming high profile events, and simply for games in your neighborhood. Wanna pay less for scalp tix for Lions games? MAKE RESALE LEGAL. I want to remind the board that even despite these opinions, your city did a great job overall, but as is my typical fashion, I give the good and the bad, to be fair and honest. It really was 95% GREAT, but this was a bit of a "fly in the ointment" - especially the parking. I didn't expect the City of Detroit to build an NYC quality subway system, but I did expect proper business practices from the parking companies. Judging from the comments from my "innkeeper" local family that such "graft" was common, it's not a very good "face" to show a visitor - and not a good environment for residents, either. NO CITY is free of such issues, especially LARGE cities, but I sensed more consternation from locals on this issue over the weekend than I thought "normal". I'm well traveled, and this stuck out to me. Thanks for reading, and I'll look forward to reading your comments. My intent is to instruct and inform, not to "bash", so I hope this isn't taken as such. | ||
Crew Member Username: Crew Post Number: 836 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 146.9.52.14 |
Great feedback. Thanks for this. | ||
Swpablo Member Username: Swpablo Post Number: 18 Registered: 05-2004 Posted From: 68.255.243.188 |
im sorry to hear about your nightmare. i parked on trumbull in front of brooks lumber(across from tiger stadium)for free. walked next door to checker cab company and got a $5 cab to c-mart. on another day i parked in the same place and rode my bike into downtown. no broken windows or any problems at all. if you know the city a little more its easy to find free parking. i went to 15 tiger games last year and didnt pay for parking once. in fact, i almost never pay for parking downtown, unless its a parking meter. next time you come downtown, ask around here what is your best bet. -pablo | ||
Gambling_man Member Username: Gambling_man Post Number: 644 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 199.178.193.5 |
I could have definitely picked a better company than Woodward parking......this is the most ill-run parking company downtown. | ||
Atl_runner Member Username: Atl_runner Post Number: 1807 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.209.118.72 |
Good post and certainly things to be unhappy about. With the exception of the scalping laws, which I totally agree with you on, I have to say that the other problems were problems one could encounter anywhere. Problems just the same though. I am anti union in a big way. Your post just cements that feeling a bit more. After paying a local bum 20 dollars to not park, I learned my lesson and parked next to the FOX for free, 3 nights in a row with Zero hassle. The walk from there was easy, but cold. I can see parking there being a problem, with all the events you attended and being on a tight schedule. | ||
Mind_field Member Username: Mind_field Post Number: 490 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 209.240.205.61 |
Could you file a lawsuit against the owners of the parking lot where your window got smashed in? I think it is crazy that you pay exhorbidant rates and then have that happen. They should have at least a few people watching the lot if it's not secure. If you were parked on the street then that would just have been big city tough luck, but this shouldn't happen in a private lot that you paid to use. Where are you from Audible nectar? It's great hearing detailed opinions from visitors to Detroit. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8119 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.228.199.153 |
So an ongoing issue with a private parking firm is Detroit's problem? Cabs who didn't want to go through a bazillion checkpoints is Detroit's problem? And getting burned on scalped tickets is Detroits problem? Sorry, I don't get it? Yes, parking seems unregulated during major events (as does every city). Cabs usually have indepedant licenses and can choose to go where they like if they see fit (here is where mass transit would work so much better). The police could offer advice but they are there to protect and make sure things go smoothly not run about smacking the hand of scalpers and coddling those who bought tickets. I guess someone should have planned ahead and bought the tix legit. Sorry, but no tears here... | ||
Mind_field Member Username: Mind_field Post Number: 491 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 209.240.205.61 |
^No all that is windsor's problem. Detroit is perfect. | ||
Bsu Member Username: Bsu Post Number: 102 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.236.201.55 |
I parked at the lot on Woodward between the Fox and State theatres at 7:00 p.m. Friday for $15. And then parked for free in the beautiful new motown parking at I-75 and Woodward on Saturday at about 6:00p.m.. We had no problems, we even had a couple of beers before we left the lot. The best time I have ever had in any city. I can't wait to get downtown again. | ||
Audible_nectar Member Username: Audible_nectar Post Number: 69 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 12.217.110.64 |
Regarding the second lot company (whom I paid $70 to park on Sunday): They offered to pay for the window, stating that Seahawk fans got out of hand when the game went south in the fourth quarter. I knew that I had comprehensive auto insurance, and would have no issue getting it repaired. At this point, I just wanted to get the helloutta dodge, because I had enough BS from the parking companies, and figured that simply leaving was the best way to avoid crushing an otherwise excellent vibe, just capped off by the Super Bowl itself. The window was gonna be open until at least Monday, so we just left and went back to our "home". The more I thought about this, though, the more things seemed weird. First, the $70 lot on Sunday took our keys as "valet", so if someone behind us needed to leave, the parking company could move our car and let the lot empty out more. Also they said to bring our SECOND key with us to get back in it, and once they knew the car no longer needed to be moved, they would place the key under the front mat and lock it. They seemed "sharp" so we went with it, having claim check in hand. After our brunch, though, we came back to change clothes - to a LOCKED car with the key IN THE IGNITION. OK, so we figured they were done with it, but placed the key under the mat, just in case they did need in - but then that didn't make sense, either, because THEY locked the car with the key in it. Imagine figuring this all out with a couple of postbrunch cocktails in ya, and it's a real confusing mess. So we left the car with the key under mat, then locked the doors. When we returned, the glass was broken with three parking attendants pleading that they were sorry, that they would pay and to just send them the bill - and that the Seahawk fans did it. Now there's something wrong with this picture. First, NO parking company bears liability for damage by others to your car - it states as such on your receipt. So why would a parking company offer to pay for something when they didn't have to? I surmise they offered from a guilty conscience: I think they broke back into the car because they needed to move it (after realizing thier mistake of just locking it up with key inside). IT WAS RUNNING when we got back - with window broken - and in a different place (we thought for a few minutes that it was stolen when we first returned, because we saw the broken glass where our car USED to be - until the attendants came running to show us our car). We fixed the window on Monday, insurance paid the $260 bill. But the people I'm FUMING MAD with is Woodward Parking. Had they honored their agreement, this window episode would not have occurred, because my reserved lot WAS fairly secure - at least bordered by buildings on three sides, and a small lot as well - room for 18 cars at best. That road and lot was blocked by 11 AM on Sunday. I did good on the location - that lot WAS a good place to park - that is when I was allowed in it. | ||
Bagman Member Username: Bagman Post Number: 27 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 70.228.59.243 |
An- Welcome to Detroit would be my response. These parking lot companies have been sticking it to people for years. Last year the city started to crack down on them and basically all they did was inform the companies that in order to raise their rates they had to make application to the city. Most figured out with the super bowl coming they should ask for a higher special event rate. I wonder how many tickets were written to lots for charging more than they should. As too your window being broken. You gave a great clue as to who broke your window. You said that you parked next door. I'll bet the guy from the lot you had the argument with broke your window. Was anything stolen? I have heard these guy do this around the Masionic Temple. If you park on the street where it is free, they will try to charge you and if you don't pay they say then they are not responsible and you come back to a broken window.....Most of the parking lot flag guys are our local street urchants. I have seen many of these guys begging on the streets downtown and waving the flags outside the lots you are describing. I like the way the media scared all the people onto the shuttles cause that left all kinds of space for those of us who knew where to find it. | ||
Hooha Member Username: Hooha Post Number: 85 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.81.52.188 |
I've never had my window broken, but I've dealt with guys trying to charge you for parking in the street before. I parked between those lots in front of Comerica one night (I get an unending feeling of satisfaction parking for free right next to the $10 sign), and this guy comes up as soon as I exit my vehicle and asks if I have a couple bucks. I oblige and give him a few dollars, and THEN he says he works for the parking company and that parking on the street is 10 bucks! After telling him street parking was free and starting to walk away, he proceeded to follow me and ask for "donations" for veterans and THEN a "donation" to the United Way! I wonder how many people actually gave in to this guy at some point, because he was pretty persistent despite changing his story every 30 seconds. | ||
Bagman Member Username: Bagman Post Number: 29 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 70.228.59.243 |
Hooha - the only ting I would have fo a guy like that is a boot to the head. It's assholes like that that give beggers a bad name | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 108 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.2.191.57 |
Bagman, where would you recommend your customers park? Thanks. | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 47 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.33.56.156 |
the reason why parking is such an issue in detroit is because there is NO other alternative. So, please don't say it is like other cities because it is not. If I know parking will be an issue, I take rail or the bus or walk---but not in Detroit. The issues Audible brings up are real and need to be addressed, not simplied bum-rushed by saying it happens elsewhere also | ||
Audible_nectar Member Username: Audible_nectar Post Number: 70 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 12.217.110.64 |
"Welcome to Detroit would be my response" You don't KNOW how many times I heard that phrase when asking locals about this issue....it is permanently etched into my brain - even the "tone" still sticks  "I like the way the media scared all the people onto the shuttles cause that left all kinds of space for those of us who knew where to find it" And I knew that counting on those shuttles was a sucker bet. That's why I went through the pre-reserved parking hassle. And I don't know all the crevices and secret spots, or what to do when those fail, so I just paid in advance. It seemed the smart thing for a visitor to do. It LOOKED to me that this was a systemic problem, and your post, Bagman, seems to confirm what I was told by locals. As for Goat's comments, all I can say is this is constructive criticism from someone who was overall very happy with the experience - but thought these issues worth mentioning. I see this event as a springboard to bigger and better things for your city - and am simply offering suggestions to allow that momentum to go forward. It starts with honest business practices. That's not just good for us as visitors, but for YOU as citizens. It IS your city, and you live there. If this is considered acceptable and normal, and continues to go forth as such, the city may lose that momentum. Yes, these things do occur in SOME cities, but by and large I avoid returning to such cities who show a consistent pattern of such activity. As a possible future visitor to the "D", I wonder what things are/will be like when NOT in the media spotlight. As is often said, the content of one's character can be determined by what one does when no one is there looking. With two new stadiums and an expanding downtown, the city does need to address this. | ||
Gogo Member Username: Gogo Post Number: 1207 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 63.240.133.93 |
In my opinion, Detroit never looks better than when the media hoopla isn't looking. Detroit is a beautiful city and its people and assets are beautiful as well. While I am happy that so many people enjoyed Detroit this past weekend, I think it was very superficial to gage Detroits success on things like how nice the sidewalks are, how easy it is to park, or how many taxis one could find. This isn't what defines Detroit, nor should it be what defines any cities beauty and its a shame that some reduce enjoying Detroit to how nice our sidewalks are or how easy they can park. You'll need to scratch a little deeper if you ever want to appreciate how beautiful Detroit is, or anywhere for that matter. | ||
Ilovedetroit Member Username: Ilovedetroit Post Number: 2056 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 63.149.5.130 |
Hear, hear Gogo...I agree with your comments 100%. Also for parking - I parked EASILY near Comet Bar and Lafayette Park and walked - no problems and very easy in and out. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 9880 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.226 |
Bitching about scalping as if it is Detroit/Michigan's problem? Come on dude, people buying tickets ain't children. You buy tickets on the street, that's a risk you take. It sure as hell isn't our local DPD's job to make sure you don't get ripped off. Anyways, they are too preoccupied playing crossing guard for all the visitors. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6683 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
The complaint was that due to enforcement and over aggressive anti-scalping laws you have no recourse if you get screwed. Stacks the deck for the fake ticket sellers. The man's just giving his opinion. | ||
Toolbox Member Username: Toolbox Post Number: 835 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.125.129 |
If you are from out of town the parking and cabs really suck compared to other places. I parked on the street in Brush park on Friday night and when I returned in the late morning my vehicle was in the same spot undisturbed, cost FREE. This was only a 4 block walk to the State, Fox and Stadia. Sunday attended a SB Party 2 blocks from Ford Field and most drove and had no issue parking a few blocks away for free. I felt sorry for the 2 guys from Jersey that were looking for a PM stop at 4am so they could go to Macomb Mall!!! After a round of laughs they thought they might be parked at Fairlane Mall. After not remembering where they had parked for sure and figuring how fucked they were we pointed them to a cab and wished them good luck. I will admit there were some issues last weekend but I can compare this first hand to the cluster fuck in Atlanta during the Olympics. That was 2 weeks of my life I will never get back. The positives you mention far outweigh the negatives. Tings do need to change but in Detroit change needs to be forced unfortunatly most times. | ||
Funkycarrie Member Username: Funkycarrie Post Number: 174 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 69.208.32.222 |
hey, be happy you didn't get assaulted by the lovely DPD for selling tickets at face value. I can't really grasp your gripe on that one, sorry. | ||
Jz_detroit Member Username: Jz_detroit Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 12.19.128.172 |
Park at Greektown Casino. It's a $20 charge however if you go inside the casino, you will find a automated validation machine. It stamps your card and now you are free from pay any parking charges. Hope that helps some of you! | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 32 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 216.144.206.2 |
Woodward Parking sucks. I don't think the Financial District Garage ever came close to filling up. I parked there all weekend. The surface lots in that area are shady because they only really do business for events. Stick to the garages and you'll be happier. | ||
Matt_the_deuce Member Username: Matt_the_deuce Post Number: 485 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.248.252 |
I parked in the Comerica bldg. deck Sat. night and there were plenty of spaces. | ||
Dnvn522 Member Username: Dnvn522 Post Number: 95 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 204.24.64.25 |
I was pleasantly surprised by the parking too. We drove right downtown Sunday without much hassle and parked in the ramp on Grand River and Griswold. Not overly crowded and easy to get out of too. I was expecting much worse. | ||
Audible_nectar Member Username: Audible_nectar Post Number: 72 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 12.217.110.64 |
"The positives you mention far outweigh the negatives" Absolutely - and that is my intent. The positives definitely outweighed the negatives - and that's not by accident, IMO. Regarding the "ticket laws/scalping": First, I want to mention that I never bought, sold, or offered to buy or sell any ticket at any price the entire weekend I was in Detroit. I had all the tix I needed for the weekend when I arrived on Thursday. That was not my intent or point of that section of the post. It's about a larger issue. That issue surrounds the creation of a criminal element by the existence of scalping laws. As soon as an activity is deemed illegal, a criminal element is drawn to it - and the advantage is placed into the hands of the seller of that item vs. the consumer. If I am on a street corner wanting a ticket to an event, and it is illegal to engage in that sale, I'm going to have to go "underground" or behind a building to seek that ticket. Now it's hidden, and out of the public eye. If it is legal, sellers will be out in the open for all to see. This places a better balance between buyer and seller, and creates an open marketplace. I do not care so much about recourse as I do about having an environment where people can make better decisions for themselves. In an "open information market", consumers can better protect themselves, and therefore, the need for recourse is reduced. Another good illustration lies in an organization known as the National Association of Ticket Brokers. This organization exists for two reasons: 1) to bring standards to the resale industry (a good thing) - but also, 2) to lobby lawmakers to write law to the advantage of the broker (not so good). Brokers LOVE states like Michigan, where brokers get away with resale but private citizens cannot. This creates a market advantage for the broker. Imagine it being illegal to buy a used car from a private party, that you can use a dealer only. Market advantage now goes to the car dealer. That's what current ticket resale laws do. This POV comes strictly as a CONSUMER of secondary market tickets - and NOT as a seller. I never sell tix above face - but occasionally will BUY them above face if necessary. I make frequent trips to Indy for this very reason - I can take an impromtu trip to sporting or concert events and know I can find tix legally - AND for less money. In my 39 years of roaming this planet, I have failed to get into an event only once (Super Bowl XXXIX in Jacksonville last year) - and that includes World Series, NBA Finals, various playoffs, and numerous BIG concerts I went to without tix. In over 100 times purchasing tix on the secondary market, I have only been taken once - and even then, I still saw the game In sum, the point of my "issue" with resale laws is the criminal element created, and the increase in the number of people who get "taken" as a result. The way to alleviate both is not by making it ILLEGAL, but by getting it out in the open. I realize that for most, resale laws don't really matter - or if they do matter, they haven't had the experiences I have had in understanding how those "levers" work. Anyone who enjoys concerts, sports and theater in your region should have interest in this issue. It really did not affect me personally on this trip, but it does affect anyone who enjoys events in your region (mostly you folks), and so I thought it would be topical for some - especially in light of the event: Tickets (and resale) is always an issue or topic with such events. So I hope this sheds light for some here. (Message edited by Audible Nectar on February 10, 2006) | ||
Eastside Member Username: Eastside Post Number: 781 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 69.246.10.58 |
Thanks Audible for your thoughtful postings about the problems you encountered while in Detroit...I feel you on every point. In regards to those forumers who find constructive criticism of their city distasteful....welcome to detroityes. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3047 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
And where's the ethics of charging $2,000 on ebay for a Super Bowl ticket? Is that any worse than streetside scalpers? Free enterprize is free enterprize. Caveat Emptor. Let the Buyer Beware. No regulations can prevent consumer stupidity. The same with parking. This website was full of knowledge about parking. The newspapers were full of tips on parking at the Super Bowl and associated activities. Nectar, the onliest mistake you made is not being prepared and not knowing the territory. Your preparations were flat out misguided. Had you called any sports fan in Detroit, he would have counselled you on what to do with your car once you drove into the Motor City. That whole contract with a parking lot sounds just amazing. jjaba thinks that tops a new level of angst for a car in automotive history. Sadly, the same thugs who made a contract with you, turned on you in their greed. So sorry you had to endure assholes who would damage your vehicle, whomever they were. jjaba's bet it wasn't Seattle people. jjaba is a proud homeboy in Detroit. Please accept his apologies in the context of the above. Nectar, where do you live? Perhaps you live in a little less complex suburb somewhere. Detroit is good people but this place gets a bit complicated at times. jjaba, Westsider in the Cobo Hall Deck, $10. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 9888 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.228 |
So before you disappear from this Detroit forum, never to be heard from again, what exactly is audible_nectar? Sorry if you've already answered this elsewhere. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3053 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Supersport, 9888 posts and doesn't know Audible nectar. He might be ours. He's got a good start at posting with 72. jjaba, giving Sporty a big gift at 10,000 posts, a world record. Remind jjaba. | ||
Spaceboykelly Member Username: Spaceboykelly Post Number: 124 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.246.30.248 |
I honestly don't see how parking was so difficult for some people. My Superbowl weekends' parking: Thurs. Parked for free 2 or 3 blocks from the spot where Woodward was cut off, and walked from there. Fri. Took the Woodward bus there and back. Waiting a little while for the inbound bus, and about 20 seconds for the outbound bus. Cost: 3$. [Also, anyone could've parked like a mile away from Woodward for free and take the bus for 3$ round trip.] Sat. Parked for free 2 or 3 blocks from the spot where Woodward was cut off, and walked from there. Took the people mover on the way back because it made sense. Cost: 50 cents. So, I went downtown for 3 days in a row, and paid a total of 3.50 to get there and back. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3054 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Spaceboy tells it like it tis. Remember the "Music Man." Ya gotta know the territory! jjaba carries a big organge work cone in the trunk. You leave your space, you put it there. Private parking spot. Bingo. Just like in a dense apartment block in Chicago. People respect that there's a reason for it. jjaba. | ||
Lghart Member Username: Lghart Post Number: 92 Registered: 03-2004 Posted From: 24.90.243.145 |
Parked in Corktown all three days and walked in no problem for me. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 508 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.212.169.194 |
"Pro-union" but driving a "non-union" vehicle to Detroit. Gee, tough break. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3056 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Must be one of those dreadful minis from Asia. Eastside, we love you unless you change your name to East Pointe. Just don't try to park at UAW or Teamsters Hqs. jjaba. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 509 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.212.169.194 |
I'm not talking about me, Jjaba, I'm talking about the original poster. Trust me, I could easily park my car at UAW Region 1. | ||
Audible_nectar Member Username: Audible_nectar Post Number: 73 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 12.217.110.64 |
"And where's the ethics of charging $2,000 on ebay for a Super Bowl ticket? Is that any worse than streetside scalpers?" No "better", yet no "worse", either. The market decides. If people decide that's too much, the seller drops his price. If someone decides the ticket is worth it, they buy it. It's that simple. Just like with any other good or item. Ebay in some respects might be better, though, since it is possible to verify certain information about the seller that could not be done on the street. Still, caveat emptor does definitely apply. "Home rentals", is another example. Numerous people in the region tried to offer homes and dwellings for 1,000 to 5,000 per day. Most did not rent. Some (especially the Woodward area lofts) did, but most did not. Just like the hotel rooms the travel agents and brokers could not sell at $500 per day - they returned many of these rooms back to the hotels themselves - and they did sell, for $200-300 per night. The market again decides. "Free enterprize is free enterprize. Caveat Emptor. Let the Buyer Beware. No regulations can prevent consumer stupidity." Agreed. "The same with parking. This website was full of knowledge about parking. The newspapers were full of tips on parking at the Super Bowl and associated activities." That's very true. There was LOTS of advice, and to a degree, I was getting almost "too much" information. Some conflicting, therefore I wasn't sure which way to go But ultimately, I DID read the newspaper, as I linked above where the Woodward Parking lead came from. Verification here would have been a good idea I hold no "fault" to any of the posters here who advised on this issue. I guess my point was to expose what appears to be a systemic issue with the downtown parking companies, Woodward Parking in particular. In the context of "what did I think as a visitor, and how can the City Of Detroit keep the momentum going and grow the city and therefore bring more residents and visitors", I think it is an important issue. The "damage/loss" for me is "water under the bridge". It's over, I've been mostly compensated to the degree possible, so at this point, this is just "advice/feedback/point of view". "Nectar, the onliest mistake you made is not being prepared and not knowing the territory. Your preparations were flat out misguided. Had you called any sports fan in Detroit, he would have counselled you on what to do with your car once you drove into the Motor City. That whole contract with a parking lot sounds just amazing. jjaba thinks that tops a new level of angst for a car in automotive history." Oh no, it was just a broken window. I've seen worse. And you are also correct that I chose the wrong advice. Reminds me of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom: "I chose.........POORLEH" "Sadly, the same thugs who made a contract with you, turned on you in their greed. So sorry you had to endure assholes who would damage your vehicle, whomever they were. jjaba's bet it wasn't Seattle people. jjaba is a proud homeboy in Detroit. Please accept his apologies in the context of the above. Nectar, where do you live? Perhaps you live in a little less complex suburb somewhere. Detroit is good people but this place gets a bit complicated at times. jjaba, Westsider in the Cobo Hall Deck, $10." I reside in the Quad Cities, about three hours west of Chicago. And yes, things are a bit less complex here - although given my travels through 44 of the 50 US states, I am also accustomed to places "more complex", although, as documented here, I was a first time visitor to the "D" on this occasion. You live and learn, I suppose! And although no apology is really necessary, I do appreciate the gesture. | ||
Audible_nectar Member Username: Audible_nectar Post Number: 74 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 12.217.110.64 |
' "Pro-union" but driving a "non-union" vehicle to Detroit. Gee, tough break. ' I guess I got what I deserved, huh? Allow me to explain...... Yes, I am "pro-union" - which is to say that I want working people to have better wages, healthcare, and a standard of living in this country. I shop in union stores (I LOATHE Wal-Mart), advise and inform anyone willing to listen as to the plight of the working person in this country, and have spent numerous multiples of my postings here in other places fighting for everyday working people. Not to mention that I TIP - a fact lost on the fellow running the lot at Woodward Parking. My wife and I had $50 allocated to tip the lot attendant over those four days - over and above the pre-paid bill (that's how we earn a living) - but that money went to the operator next door to pay for Sunday parking, due to the non-performance of Woodward Parking over the weekend. I do care about the plight of working people. I have owned two autos (one GM, one Ford), both purchased brand new, and neither lasted the payments (tranny on one, too many items to list on the other). Both manufacturers refused repairs within the warranty period. I called "up the chain" as high as I could go, and discussed at length my position: I want to stay American, but you people are trying my patience. Still mindful of labor issues, I purchased the Geo Prizm, (Toyota Corolla clone), built in the NUMMI plant in Fremont, California. At least SOME benefit went to US people! I am now on my second such vehicle, the Corolla version (couldn't find a Vibe, which I wanted, and HAD to buy something, since the purchase was a result of a totaled vehicle). I would DEFINITELY buy a NUMMI built car (Pontiac Vibe, Matrix, Corolla) again. I still look for a 100% US owned and built car with a track record like this one - and if it comes along, I would definitely consider it - and probably buy it. I like US built BIG cars - but I don't like the mileage. I lay the blame at management who has insisted for too many years that we will buy whatever they build. I do not blame the unions. People pay 3-10K more for Toyota and Honda vehicles - they are NOT buying them for PRICE. They are buying them because they last, and hold more resale value (and if you ever get a car totalled, that really matters). I have suggested to the US automakers that they put more money into the cars to catch up - to innovate their way out of the problem (maybe CAFE standards weren't such a bad idea after all, given that we now need fuel efficiency more than ever). People WILL pay more, if you justify it with quality and value. Just like parking space. I was willing to pay more, and got less in the bargain. I still hold on to the Buy American ethos on as many products as I deem reliable: Audio gear (and you have to look, but it is out there), hand made clothing, anything I can find that I deem worth owning - I look American first. But on cars? My luck has been terrible, and since autos are expensive, it has to be done right the first time. I did wonder, and still do wonder whether or not this "incident" was union "motivated". I really cannot say just how much that is the case. After reading this thread, I do have to wonder. But I will say this, if it is true: THAT IS NO WAY TO TREAT A VISITOR, it is not a way to continue the good momentum from the Super Bowl, and it is cetrtainly no way to convince that person to buy union. In fact, if this is the way a "union town", as the Woodward Parking people put it, operates, maybe I'm not as "pro-union" as I first thought. That's a good way to turn someone like myself against you, who otherwise has a very sympathetic ear towards the City and it's people. But I would like to think that I can see "deeper" that that - and therefore still hold energy to fight for working people....... And ultimately, for your city. I took great pride after reading this forum to spend as much money as a percentage in Detroit (vs outside the city) as possible, because I thought your city could use the economic benefits more than the suburbs. I want to see that continue - and therefore, ultimately, it is the reason I am still here. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 494 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 70.236.179.227 |
Thanks, Audible. SPending your money and time here is certainly appreciated. And i really dont think your parking troubles had to do with your type of car. There are more and more foreign cars being bought here in the Metro area. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 511 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.212.169.194 |
"You people are trying my patience..." Likewise. We dont need you blaming big city problems on Detroit. These issues arent Detroit specific. How's parking in NYC? I bought a Ford once and bla bla bla.... give me a break. The quality gap doesnt even register in some categories. Dont call yourself "pro-union" and then give some diatribe about buying a foreign car that is "at least made here"... yeah, yeah... and the profits go where? the engineering is where? the wage cycle does what? the trade deficit is what? At any rate... I'm not thanking you. Plenty of people LOVE and LOVED Detroit, and didnt blame Detroit for their lack of big city savvy. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3059 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Nectar, you are a real mensch. You are so kind, so articulate in your posts. NUMMI is a good plant, good people. Their products have brought wheels to that huge mid-market. California is a huge market and NUMMI does right by their people. When they built Chevy Novas and Toyota Carollas on the same line at the beginning, Americans were so excited about Toyota, they bought 6 Toyotas to every Nova, THE SAME G-DAMNNED CAR! We understand you now. We appreciate your angst and the bad issues you had to confront in Detroit. jjaba just adores Iowa. It is so pretty and the people are so progressive about education. We know you, we know what happened. Too bad one of us couldn't have housed and cared for you. As you see, we park on the streets and walk there. But you got bad advice. Stick with us. Please return and meet us. Your comments about UAW parking lot tied it all up for jjaba. jjaba, Westside car-shop John. (Old Detroit expression which tells it all.) | ||
623kraw Member Username: 623kraw Post Number: 770 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.224.200 |
NUMMI (New United Motor Mfg Inc) has been around since 1984 (17 Novas were built that year). GM owns the Freemont plant. Toyota kicked in $100 mil. It is and always was UAW. |
