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Detroitman
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Username: Detroitman

Post Number: 897
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 216.78.48.119
Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/c gi-bin/article.pl?articleId=28 708
SBXL: Fresh sets of eyes on Detroit
Out-of-town developers see potential in city
By Andrew Dietderich
• January 30, 2006
For many out-of-town visitors, Super Bowl XL marks the first time they’ll see the city of Detroit not as a backdrop for a gritty movie or music video, but a metropolis ripe for investment and development.


Take it from investors and developers from out of town who have been or plan to pour money into the city already, buying long-vacant structures such as the former Book-Cadillac Hotel and Kales and Lafayette buildings.
They view downtown Detroit as ripe for development, working hard to overcome its negative image and on the verge of becoming a hot spot for young people who don’t want to commute or empty nesters who want to be close to ballparks and casinos.


And they also say that because local investors and developers are more concerned with building in the ’burbs, there’s plenty of opportunity. The Book-Cadillac, Kales and Lafayette buildings, for example, are being redeveloped or have drawn interest by investors from Cleveland, Indianapolis and Florida, respectively.


“The vast majority of the local business community there has given up on the city in terms of development,” said R. Donahue Peebles, a Miami Beach, Fla.-based developer. “They’ve moved on to Troy or Birmingham or other suburbs. What the city of Detroit needs are fresh sets of eyes, and that’s what developers like me bring to the table.”


Peebles, owner of Peebles Atlantic Development Corp., said he is in final negotiations with the city to buy the Lafayette building, where he plans a $45 million residential redevelopment. He also plans to build a luxury hotel on the Detroit River.


“The city of Detroit has to stop beating up the city of Detroit,” said John Ferchill, CEO of the Cleveland-based Ferchill Group, which plans to buy the Book-Cadillac.


Ferchill also owns downtown’s Hilton Garden Inn. He said he has two other major downtown projects in the works but said he wants to progress on the Book-Cadillac before announcing anything else.


“(Downtown Detroit) is all we know up there,” Ferchill said.


Ferchill said construction of Comerica Park and Ford Field first drew him to the city. Ferchill said he saw, and still sees, nothing but potential. He expects others will do the same when they come to town.


“We said to some out-of-town lenders, ‘Look, you just have to go there,’ ” Ferchill said. “They came up to look at the place, and they were shocked at how good Detroit was. Shocked. They expected much worse.”


George Jackson Jr., president of the Detroit Economic Growth Corp., said he has seen an increase in the number of developers from out of town bidding on projects led by the city, such as the Lafayette Building project.


He said he’s seen financing from out of town increase as well.


“The most interesting thing is that a lot of out-of-town developers are easier to deal with because they see the upside of our city more than some of our local developers and investors,” Jackson said.


Jackson, a Detroit real estate veteran of more than 30 years, said there was a time when there was little interest in the city from out-of-towners.


Now, he said, he has “no problem finding more than enough developers.”


For example, he said, out of four responses for the 44-acre former Uniroyal site near Belle Isle, three were from out-of-town developers. The development team of Pittsburgh Steelers running back and former Detroiter Jerome Bettis and Pittsburgh developer C.J. Betters was chosen in early 2005. The two are partners in Bettis/Betters Development L.L.C.


General Motors Corp. said Jan. 19 that it has reached preliminary agreements with Detroit River East Partners L.L.C. to develop 13 acres east of the Renaissance Center.


Detroit River East Partners consists of Mesirow Stein Real Estate Inc. and Morningside Equities Group, both Chicago-based.


“A lot of changes have been made over the last 10 years, the last four or five particularly,” said Nico Schultz, development manager for Morningside. “That includes the city’s approach to development and interest from all sectors: private, public, and (nonprofit) foundations.”


Schultz said the city faces issues such as environmental and infrastructure, but that it’s become worth taking a chance. Morningside has spent more than $95 million on developments in Ann Arbor and Royal Oak during the past several years.


“We felt that now was a good time to take a substantial risk in the city now as it grows over the coming years,” Schultz said.


Peebles’ introduction to Detroit came when he was going to buy and renovate a Southfield hotel. Those plans didn’t pan out, but when the city of Detroit economic-development team heard he was interested in the area they called him, he said.


Peebles said the current economic-development team led by Jackson is pro-development and helpful. He said city representatives visited his other properties, for example, and made sure he had the financial wherewithal to get projects done before entering into negotiations.


Peebles compared today’s Detroit with the South Beach area of Miami Beach in the 1980s.


He said the once popular destination spot had fallen apart and was “basically abandoned” by local investors and developers, causing the area to become dilapidated.


But then investors from other areas saw the potential and began redeveloping there. Today, the area that includes Peebles’ Royal Palm Hotel has regained its status as one of the swankiest vacation spots in the country.


And though it’s unlikely Detroit will have a fad diet named after it, Peebles said he sees the same kind of potential in Motown.


“Everyone wants to build in Miami or Las Vegas,” he said. “I tell people I have projects in Detroit, and they look at me like I’m crazy. But if you don’t allow yourself to be prejudiced by the past and look beyond the cloud of the auto industry, you see it’s a city with great potential.”
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Michigansheik
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Username: Michigansheik

Post Number: 71
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 69.242.214.54
Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 11:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I do think that we're finally at the point where things could start to click. If we do repopoulate downtown we'll definitely need some effective Mass Transit. Let's hope that SEMCOG can get something going by 08!

Anyone know when/if the BOOK building will be fixed up? That place looks amazing.
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Rbdetsport
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Username: Rbdetsport

Post Number: 57
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 68.60.133.115
Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like that Peebles Corp. plans to build a luxury hotel on the Detroit River. Ferchill has two projects in the works. I like all of this, but I wish that they could get moving on their projects so that we can get these new projects out to the the press so we can judge on these plans.
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Bibs
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Username: Bibs

Post Number: 446
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 11:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting that the local developers seem to have jaded opinions about their own city: Miami or Detroit. Only outside developers are willing to take a risk and see the potential. Perhaps, they have more capital therefore the project is cheaper to finance and there is more upside potential. Is this a psychologial issue or a economy of scale issue.
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Bobj
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Username: Bobj

Post Number: 400
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 65.221.183.120
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I talked with some Ernest and Young employees scheduled to move to the Kennedy Sq bldg from Troy.They were actually afraid abd considering getting new jobs to avoid the move. They thought it just too dangerous. I gave them my point of view, but I was really surprised how strongly they felt.

I think it is that type of opinions that pervades the area and keeps local developers from making the investment. One thing I wish local developers would consider is how individual investors are buying condos/lofts/houses built in the City at a pretty good rate - even in a bad economy.
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Bibs
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Username: Bibs

Post Number: 447
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.251.23
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 2:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ask Ernest and Young employess if criminals have cars and if they believe their is a invisible filter at 8 mile that keeps wrong doers out. Please! What a myopic view of the world. Tell em the first ones to get shot are the ones who look scared! Ha
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Sharmaal
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Username: Sharmaal

Post Number: 638
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 136.2.1.103
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Funny Bobj,

I've got a few friends that work for EY in Detroit (when they aren't at the client site). They were gonna move to PWC until this got announced!
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Bobj
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Username: Bobj

Post Number: 405
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 65.221.183.120
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 4:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is funny Sharmaal. It could be an age thing - the people I talked to are working at the Company I work for and I would guess are all in the 45 to 55 age range and the ones that mentioned where they live are all in the distant Suburbs (Macomb Twp. Lake Orion, etc)
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Jdkeepsmiling
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Username: Jdkeepsmiling

Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 208.50.91.234
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 4:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone have a link or a picture of the new EY building??? Thanks.
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Ltrain
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Username: Ltrain

Post Number: 64
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.76.192.204
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 4:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If the distance one way of your commute to work and your age are the same THAT should be the ONLY reason you are looking for a new job, not some silly (and completely wrong) impression of downtown.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1592
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 4.229.123.35
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 6:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bibs your post above may be the stupidest thing I have ever read on this forum.
Last week on the news I read of a guy that was car jacked near Palmer pk.He willingly gave up his car and his money and asked, maybe even begged that the shithead car jacker not shoot him.The fuckhead shot him. So tell me smart ass was it his fault for looking scared?
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6598
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.20
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 7:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Because it only happens in Detroit.

CL, I am not sure if you can grasp this but Palmer Park is not downtown. Also, since he was in Palmer Park during the time of day I am going to assume that it was a deal gone bad or something.

Wow, it is easy to write off crime as a shady situation gone wrong like you do for AA>
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1593
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 4.229.123.35
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 7:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Assume whatever you want to jt1 maybe you are right a deal gone bad.The fact is he was still shot for no good reason...........that shit does not happen here jt1.

It amazes me how you are so damn willing to mitigate the crap that happens in Detroit.So since the incident I described happened outside of downtown somehow it is not important? Getting shot ouside of downtown doesn't count? Is there a different "scared" look one must use when in the neghborhoods to assure being shot?
As for your continueing patronizing of me fuck you jt1.The guys on hotfudge may be on to something when they cite you as the person that comes up with all the stats on how Detroit is the utopia of the world despite the fact there was 374 murders last year.
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Jsmyers
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Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1377
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

So since the incident I described happened outside of downtown somehow it is not important?




So things that happen in Ypsi aren't imprortant to AA? The distance is about the same.

Borders don't mean much...and they should mean less still.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6600
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.20
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 7:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

POinting out your hypocrisy, that's all.


quote:

amazes me how you are so damn willing to mitigate the crap that happens in Detroit.





quote:

since the incident I described happened outside of downtown somehow it is not important? Getting shot ouside of downtown doesn't count? Is there a different "scared" look one must use when in the neghborhoods to assure being shot?




For the sake of this argument yes it is off topic. They are talking about workers that are afraid to come to the CBD. You know that area with crime rates below the national average.

Does crime bother me and upset me. Yes, does crime in Palmer Park have any bearing on people's misplaced fears about the CBD? No.


quote:

As for your continueing patronizing of me fuck you jt1.The guys on hotfudge may be on to something when they cite you as the person that comes up with all the stats on how Detroit is the utopia of the world despite the fact there was 374 murders last year.




Oh no, HFD is making fun of me. I better change my whole outlook on the world. If you look at the stats I listed I typically just list the stats as they are with no interpretation. If you want to turn that into something beyond what it is go for it.

See you overlooked the thread were people were upset about a comment in ER in regards to arson and Detroit. I posted the stats showing that Detroit is waaaay up there in arson and it was a justified comment. Obviously you decided to ignore that post.


quote:

As for your continueing patronizing of me fuck you jt1




For some reason I figured the enlightened people in Ann Arbor would be much more eloquent than that.

Again, I encourage that reading comprehension class. I can check into the downtown Y to see if thet are offering them. That is if you are not afraid of getting shot.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1594
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 4.229.123.35
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 8:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is not the making fun part that they are absolutely accurate about jt1.It is your persistence in attempting reduce Detroit's crime to meaningless statistics(meaningless to the victims of crime)in order to somehow convince(yourself) that Detroit is no different than any other city which is not true.

Of course it is logical that someone that might be a new employee downtown would be concerned about shootings in Palmer park.It is the same city.The ypsi ann arbor comparison is a weak one. Not the same city and frankly ypsi looks like paradise when comparing crime rates to detroit.

Don't bother with the Y reading program asshole(hows that for eloquence).We have our own Y and I don't even have to think about being shot or having my car stolen or my windows broken or driving thru neighborhoods where if I look scared I am more likely to be shot even if don't offer any resistance to the guy that wants to take my car and money at gunpoint.
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Sharmaal
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Username: Sharmaal

Post Number: 642
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 69.14.76.187
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 8:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Citylover, you've gone too far.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6601
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.2.148.212
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 9:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

is your persistence in attempting reduce Detroit's crime to meaningless statistics(meaningless to the victims of crime)in order to somehow convince(yourself) that Detroit is no different than any other city which is not true.




Not my intent at all. I have volunteered in many situations to support victims of crimes. It is very real to me. What I am doing is using it as a measuring stick to show where Detroit compares relative to other areas of the country where the local medias concentrate on both the positive and the negative.


quote:

concerned about shootings in Palmer park.It is the same city




140 square mile without an even distribution of crime. That would be like me thinking that AA and all of the surrounding cities are the same. The problme is that people think Detroit is the same everywhere. That simply is not the case, you know that, I know that but others do not.


quote:

Don't bother with the Y reading program asshole(hows that for eloquence).We have our own Y and I don't even have to think about being shot or having my car stolen or my windows broken or driving thru neighborhoods where if I look scared I am more likely to be shot even if don't offer any resistance to the guy that wants to take my car and money at gunpoint.




AA to downtown would not send you through those scary parts you speak of. You know better than that but we all know AA is paradise and all crime victims brought upon their own fate by leaving their doors unlocked or being in the middle of a deal gone awry or whatever excuse for the day spews out of your ignorant mouth.

Now I wonder how many murders/crimes you have supported and indirectly been a part of by supporting the Detroit drug trade. But let's not consider that part of the problem when we can preach about what is wrong after we helped bring the situation to the city.

Brave hypocrie, bravo.
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 953
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.249.8.75
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 1:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This thread has gone way off-topic... (Ok, I half agree with some of CL's usual points, mainly that crime is perhaps the largest single problem in the city which can realistically be "solved" to some extent. But it is still just one of several problems that the city is facing, and some critical things are getting better. And bringing up a carjacking in Palmer Park is a big stretch... people need to understand that the CBD really is pretty safe all around. Anyway, let's *please* move crime to a different thread.)

But that was a thought-provoking Crain's article. It is reasonable to think of the Super Bowl cleanup & new facades as a sort of advertisement to potential out of town investors, aside from the obvious local benefits of having a cleaned up downtown.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1595
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 4.229.132.78
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 1:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You are reaching jt1 with your wondering how I contributed to crime etc by supporting the drug trade.So from my perspective I contributed nothng personally.I never robbed anyone, I never supplied a gun to anyone, I never sold any drugs to anyone,a woman I bought drugs from son was shot and died but he was a victm of your garden variety Detroit robbery/ murder it devastated her but she was back in business soon. Beyond that my own participation of "criminal" behavior was the way I "robbed" my family of their trust and tranquility I could give two shits about what you think I did or owe Detroit.And seeing how there are probably thousands of shithead to choose from to pin accountability for crime drug related or otherwise it seems silly that you think I would feel any guilt at all other than toward my family.

AA is not paradise.But compared to Detroit it almost is.I am confident that you could cite your statistics from any area of Detroit compare it to a simlar sized area of AA and the crime difference i.e. Detroit's will be much higher in every instance.So in the exceedingly rare incident when someone is shot in AA it is front page headline news. Carjackings? can't remember the last time there was one if ever.Car vandalism? it happens but it is unusual enough that it is newsworthy.........is that true anywhere in Detroit?

Sure I can take the expressway all the way to the city and so can anyone that might be working downtown.But when he/she reads of a car jacking or robbery or someones body found in a car they see it as the whole city and it makes them afraid .No matter how often you cite stats people will understandably be skeptical. So although you intent may not be to minimze the impact crime has on individuals and perception it may still be the effect.

What I don't understand is how you can even argue this when all I did was call out what I hope even you would call a very stupid post by Bibs. Honestly do you think anyone would venture somewhere where the welcoming commitee advises that ......."The ones that look scared get shot first"....?
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Mind_field
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Username: Mind_field

Post Number: 475
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 209.240.205.61
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 1:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ANYWAYS......back on topic. Does anyone have any insider info or could speculate as to what these "two other major downtown projects" are?
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Dag
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Username: Dag

Post Number: 180
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.241.254.67
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 2:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BTW, I was curious about the situation CL had described but I was unable to find anything through the usual news outlets so I expanded to the google news and other news databases and still could not find any information. I know that if this was reported on a television or radio station there would be an online version somewhere.


Perhaps I am just missing it, or perhaps CL is just mistaken.

However, almost the same exact situation happened just outside of Ann Arbor using a knife instead of a gun.

http://www.mlive.com/news/aane ws/index.ssf?/base/news-16/113 7769925196740.xml&coll=2
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Dag
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Username: Dag

Post Number: 181
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Posted From: 69.241.254.67
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 2:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Apparantly, even after the victim had thrown his keys to the perp he was stabbed in the neck anyways. Crazy Ann Arbor, I can't wait to get out of here.

(Message edited by Dag on January 31, 2006)
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1597
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 4.229.123.105
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 4:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dag you seem smart enough so I won't call you dumb.And I think even you know that Ypsilanti is not Ann Arbor just as Warren is not Detroit or Ferndale is not Hazel park. So I will be blunt and call you dishonest.

You are attemptting to equate an incident that happened about 5-6 miles from the Ann Arbor city limits hardly what any honest person would call .."Just outside of".. any place_ nice try though.It is not even in the Ypsilanti city limits.

Do ya think the fact that the report I saw on t.v. happened in Detroit is just conincidental? I don't. I looked up crime stats and if you combined all the murders in the suburbs it would not even approach Detroit's.Shootings? The disparity would be even more pronounced.In fact in every single category Detroit is above the national average while the surrounding areas are below.But that is not news.........well maybe to people that are concerned about having to work in Detroit.........they should practice not "looking scared".

So now I am curious, what is your point? If it is to argue that one has as much a chance to be a victim of crime in the suburbs or Ann Arbor then you will lose the argument.But you gotta know that it is so obvious that yhere is really no way to come to any other conclusion........so what is your point?
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Jsmyers
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Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1380
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 5:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know about anybody else, by my point is that Ann Arbor and Ypsilanti about equally the same city as downtown Detroit is with a Detroit neighborhood about 5-6 miles away. Cirme doesn't care about political boundaries.

It is a big city. There is room for it to be both dangerous and scary at the same time, but in different places.

BTW - Detroit has just under 3 times as many people as all of Washtenaw County, in what is a bigger area than the AA-Ypsi Urbanized area.

Back to topic:

Do you think the Crain's article that started this thread what promted Karmanos' article today?
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1598
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 4.229.123.105
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 5:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Again it seems to me that you along with some others are indirectly saying that it is conincidental that crime happens in Detroit.And I am saying or asking how can it be coincidnetal when it happens overwhelmingly more in Detroit.(?)
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Gogo
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Username: Gogo

Post Number: 1180
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 198.208.251.23
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 5:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

AA is not paradise.But compared to Detroit it almost is.




I'd rather gnaw on my own arm than endure an arts scene that cannot stretch beyond craft shows, a music scene that does not reach beyond coffee houses and a night life that doesn't stay out past 11PM. Ann Arbor sucks.
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Jsmyers
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Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1381
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 5:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Again it seems to me that you along with some others are indirectly saying that it is conincidental that crime happens in Detroit.




No, I'm saying you can't generalize about crime in Detroit anymore than you can generalize about crime in Washtenaw County, because it is a vast city with very different areas.

Crime is not equally a problem in all areas, whether those areas are in the city limits named Detroit or a county called Washtenaw.
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Gogo
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Username: Gogo

Post Number: 1181
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Posted From: 198.208.251.23
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 5:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A gun shooting at 7 mile road in Palmer Woods is about as relevant to downtown Detroit as it is to downtown Royal Oak. The only difference is downtown Royal Oak is closer.
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Merchantgander
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Username: Merchantgander

Post Number: 1541
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 150.198.164.127
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 5:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jsmyers, I think the only appropriate area to generalize is Detroit because it makes life so much easier.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 9840
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.118.137.226
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 5:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Does anyone have a link or a picture of the new EY building??? Thanks.




http://sof8mile.blogspot.com/2 006/01/right-here-right-now.ht ml

Half way down the page is a picture of it.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1599
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 4.229.126.147
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 6:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gogo if you do gnaw on your own arm I suggest Fox t.v._ you could do it live for a million dollars.

As for your assessment of AA you are entitled to you opinion.But you are mistaken about a few things.And downright wrong about this one: I see more people on the streets of Ann Arbor from the Eastern edge of campus i.e. South U down to Main st on a typical week end than I would ever seein downtown Detroit(this week end does not count).So on a typical autumn or summer or even winter night I guarantee you i.e. you personally gogo will se more people in AA walking the streets downtown then you will in Detroit.I have been in both cities at each of those times and I am simply relating the truth.
Oh btw at 11p this is especially true.
As for your other thoughts I don't disagree.But then AA is not even a city it is a town.And for a town it's size it has a hell of an arts scene that is fairly well supported.........I will let someone else discuss the music scene.

As for your contention that Palmer pk has as much relevance to downtown as Royal Oak...well I can only say that that is such a bullshit cop out statement that I won't even bother responding.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 9842
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.246.37.236
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 12:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ann Arbor sucks.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1602
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 4.229.132.93
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 12:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You obviously are not a product of the Dove-7 school of forum writing SS.
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Detroitduo
Member
Username: Detroitduo

Post Number: 470
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 84.156.51.42
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 3:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

blah blah blah
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Gogo
Member
Username: Gogo

Post Number: 1184
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 198.208.251.23
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 9:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I vote to revoke "citylovers" handle from him/her and rename it quaintlittletownlover.
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Gogo
Member
Username: Gogo

Post Number: 1185
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 198.208.251.23
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 9:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I see more people on the streets of Ann Arbor from the Eastern edge of campus i.e. South U down to Main st on a typical week end than I would ever seein downtown Detroit.




That's because everything is closed at night and people are left to wander the streets looking for something fun to do. Alas, they are misguided in their quest but continue to wander nevertheless.

In Detroit, the fun isn't outside wandering the streets aimlessly as it is in AA, it is inside in the clubs, bars, restaurants, theater, etc.
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Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6624
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.20
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 11:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

As for your contention that Palmer pk has as much relevance to downtown as Royal Oak...well I can only say that that is such a bullshit cop out statement that I won't even bother responding.




Using the ultimate cop out by claiming a valid statement is a cop out. Ha.

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