  Mrsjdaniels Member Username: Mrsjdaniels Post Number: 150 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 68.248.6.205 |
from detnews.com jan 21 Here is the ballot language adopted by the Board of State Canvassers for the Michigan Civil Rights Initiative proposal headed to voters in November: A proposal to amend the state constitution to ban affirmative action programs that give preferential treatment to groups or individuals based on their race, gender, color, ethnicity or national origin for public employment, education or contracting purposes. The proposed constitutional amendment would: Ban public institutions from using affirmative action programs that give preferential treatment to groups or individuals based on their race, gender, color, ethnicity or national origin for public employment, education or contracting purposes. Public institutions affected by the proposal include state government, local governments, public colleges and universities, community colleges and school districts. Prohibit public institutions from discriminating against groups or individuals due to their gender, ethnicity, race, color or national origin. (A separate provision of the state constitution already prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color or national origin.) Should this proposal be adopted? Yes No | ||
Broken_main Member Username: Broken_main Post Number: 691 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.222.11.226 |
Hmmmm...I think I am going to let others speak on this before I state my thoughts. Just a little reminder though. In my little circle of friends we closely relate Affirmative Action, with reparations, slavery and equal rights. Remember that the same people that right amendments like this feel like they don't owe the African American community anything. So this is their way of leveling the playfield. I know I will be ringing in on this topic for most of the day. | ||
Pjazz Member Username: Pjazz Post Number: 12 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.212.62.212 |
What some don't realize it doesnt just affect Blacks it will affect women and all other minorities. It will also hinder Universities trying to keep thier enrollment diverce. I don't see anything in there about stopping aulumni preference. I don't feel we're a color blind society yet VOTE NO! | ||
Broken_main Member Username: Broken_main Post Number: 704 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.222.11.226 |
I too, vote NO on this This is yet another nail in the coffin for the middle class especially if something like this passes | ||
Spaceboykelly Member Username: Spaceboykelly Post Number: 109 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.246.30.248 |
Please pay close attention to this post. I know there is [or was] a challenge to this ballot that made the assertion that those taking petitions mislead people into signing. I personally was asked by two younger, attractive and seemingly well-meaning people to sign a petition for this ballot outside of the Birmingham theatre [after work]. They claimed it was to "end racial profiling in Michigan." I never sign anything without reading it carefully, and so I read and re-read the ballot, and realized they were actually talking about Affirmative Action in Michigan colleges. Calling Affirmative Action "racial profiling" is extremely misleading. It bothers me that I was almost one of the many who was duped into thinking I was doing something that I believe in. If anyone has any information on how I can add my name to a list of people challenging this proposal's legality, or any way I can appear in court or appeal to a Michigan lawmaker let me know. My email is newwave_popstar@hotmail.com Thanks. | ||
Broken_main Member Username: Broken_main Post Number: 705 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.222.11.226 |
Good job spaceboy... I know a lot of people (like my own mother) who has been a victim of these tactics. | ||
Hagglerock Member Username: Hagglerock Post Number: 198 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 12.207.6.192 |
I can understand how many people see preferential treatment towards minorities as un-fair, in fact I used to be one of those individuals. However after years of seeing many different viewpoints, many from my wife, co-workers and friends, many who are minorities, suggests that we as a society have to be responsible for all of our past transgressions. Selling that to white America isn't easy, especially since many of them have done nothing or think they've done wrong to these minorities. Yet the fact of that matter is that many minorities, especially African Americans are still given un-fair treatment in all spectrums of this country. I've seen it first hand many times. One time was at a club in DC that wouldn't allow my friend in because of his attire, the bouncer claiming they don’t allow hip hop oriented clothing into the club. The only thing hip hop my buddy was wearing were tan boots that resemble timeberlands. However, seconds later seeing a similarly dressed white boy decked out in an oversized eagles jersey, chin strap beard and complete with timberlands, waltz in the club without a second glance from the doorman. WTF? I truly believe that only diversity can make us into a society where race/gender/sexual preferences are no longer societal borders. Yet the question is if affirmative action the only way to diversify our society? What are some other programs/ideas that could further promote diversity without stepping on too many people's toes? With that said I side with affirmative action to an extent, my job uses it and it works, but I can understand why many are up in arms against it. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 2940 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 192.220.139.6 |
Equal opportunity for all. jjaba | ||
Treelock Member Username: Treelock Post Number: 82 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 67.149.59.223 |
Affirmative action policies aren't perfect and in an ideal world we wouldn't have them. We don't live in anything close to an ideal world. There are some proponents of this proposal who argue their case from a very cerebral, almost rarefied standpoint. I once saw one of the attorneys who helped argue the UM Supreme Court case on behalf of the plaintiffs speak on the issue and I found his arguments quite nebulous and difficult to follow. These people may, however, have their points, difficult though they may be to discern. However, the proposal will find most support among the garden variety racist white folks, plain and simple. I would vote no on this proposal anyway, but am especially opposed to its sweeping and reckless implications for many education and job-training programs and for the shameful way canvassers who I encountered went about promoting their petition drive, particularly in a chocolate city like Detroit. | ||
Everyman Member Username: Everyman Post Number: 20 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 24.136.14.239 |
Hrm. Even if it passes, nothing will change. A similar thing passed in Cali and the UCs still practice preferential admissions. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2288 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 199.74.87.131 |
Everyman, the UCs are also overwhelming Asian. The preferential admissions are biased towards low-income applicants. The middle-class African Americans apply to Stanford, Cal-State or out-of-state. Whites have already sent their children to the East Coast. | ||
Broken_main Member Username: Broken_main Post Number: 716 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.222.11.226 |
jjaba, where bus have you been on. haven't sen you in a while. | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 229 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 68.43.81.191 |
If this initiative passes, then I would hope that public universities like WSU and UofM would switch to socioeconomic-based Affirmative Action as an alternative. It won't be race based, so it will be perfectly legal. It will still benefit Blacks and other minorities who are disproportionately poor, but this way it will benefit the genuinely disadvantaged. The only way a college admissions committee would even know what race you are is if you tell them on your application. Take that question off of the application, and you have color-blind admissions. Instead, the application can ask questions to determine if you qualify as poor or disadvantaged and give you bonus points to boost your application if you are. That way, the people who truly need a helping hand will get it regardless of color and colleges will still get the diversity they desire because of the disproportionate number of poor who are minorities. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3056 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
Those against this (including some of the wording of the current proposal) have a HUGE hill to climb, and mobilization of resources need to be done quickly. The far right has made it quite clear that they want (and continue to plan) to declare war on nearly anything that doesn't exactly match with their very narrow worldview. And, the Jennifer Gantz character with her dubiously named organization, is probably one of the most sadisitcally ironic parts of this whole movement to push the clock back. What bother's me even more is that I've heard people from this dubiously named organization use Martin Luther King Junior to further his cause when a group like this would have been EXACTLY what he was fighting to dismantle. This is intitutionalized racism at it's very best/worst, all under the guise of "fairness" and "quality". How much more Orwellian can you get? Really, if the white women supporting this want to shoot themselves in the foot on this, let them do that on their own, don't let them drag the rest of us into this self-mutilation. In the end, they are the swing vote. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 106 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Pjazz: "What some don't realize it doesnt just affect Blacks it will affect women and all other minorities." Huh? How can women be a **minority** if there are fewer men than women? You definitely lost debating points based on this absurdity. | ||
Treez4brkfst Member Username: Treez4brkfst Post Number: 93 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 68.79.119.249 |
Women are considered a minority due to their relationship to the power structure. They are considered an "economic" minority not a numerical minority. Some complain that business then hire white women and claim to have to satisified Affirmative Action or diversification initiaves. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 108 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Treez4brkfst: "Women are considered a minority due to their relationship to the power structure. They are considered an "economic" minority not a numerical minority." Women collectively own more securities than men in the various markets. Money is power. Besides, married women receive 1/2 of community property acquired during marriage. They also out-survive their spouses. So the two sentences above are a very weak rationalization that doesn't take reality into account. Besides, they're just empty statements put forth without any evidence. Nice try, though. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 484 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.212.169.194 |
Warriorfan, what about the fact that the school districts are not all equal and those in the lower economic neighborhoods have a lesser education? Wont their scores and grades reflect this, inhibiting their ability to be on the level playing field academically, BEFORE anyone even asks about their money situation? Resolution: 1) Bus everyone to level the school district imbalances (indirect route) or 2) All local millages/taxes earmarked for schools go to the State general fund, not to the local districts, in order that each child in the State receives the same funding for the same State education (direct route) | ||
Sarge Member Username: Sarge Post Number: 198 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 204.57.109.226 |
Interesting that the language was amended to reflect both sides' concerns. Those opposed typically spin the language to make it appear all affirmative action will be prohibited by the proposal. Those in favor typically spin to make clear that only preferences will be abolished. Looks like the director tried not to take sides and instead run straight up the middle. |
