  Skamour14 Member Username: Skamour14 Post Number: 22 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 24.11.209.163 |
I was reading on MLB news that they had picked Former and great mayor Archer to handle all the bickering. This guy really has a good hand on things in my opinion, handleing a bunch of diffrent things and whatnot, and it speaks volumes for the city, I think to show that, Hey not every mayor is as bad and coruupt as Kwame | ||
Super_d Member Username: Super_d Post Number: 570 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 69.246.115.84 |
'Skamour14' quoted,////"....Hey not every mayor is as bad and coruupt as Kwame"////// Why do you say that Mayor Kilpatrick is bad and corrupt? Explain yo'self dog!___ or is this 'just' more foolish blithering. | ||
Skamour14 Member Username: Skamour14 Post Number: 23 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 207.74.168.244 |
look what hes has done..... it's people like yourself whom I assume are kilpatrick supporters, that keep the oppression going... why because he's the gangsters pick or the "pro black man" I enjoyed when mayor Archer was in office, and hoped his Deputy was going to get elected, but when someone dosent display professional public action, not once but a few times I might add, and spends the tax payers money, allows for "cronies" to go and tear up the city(mike Illitch) then how can you even support a person like that? You probally enjoyed the regime of Colman Young too didnt you? yeah he really did alot for the city huh? Stop loveing the crap that he propagates and love the truth... I want this city to one of the top ten in the country, and it has potentional, but with the "MAN" on our neck, I am relegated to just being one of those Brothas on the chain gang! "Would you likes mo of my hard earned monies mista Kilpatrick to use fo yo self?.. get real Brother!!!! | ||
Ilovedetroit Member Username: Ilovedetroit Post Number: 1983 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 24.172.45.2 |
Oh puhhhhhhhhlease Archer the big sell out. Other than getting GM downtown and Compuware (which he and Freman gave the land away) what was so great about him? Skamour14 you are just an angry white suburbanite that is trying to act black. And Mike Illitch and clan supported Hendrix NOT KK. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2182 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.141.79.112 |
"Ilovedetroit" you are one sick person. Talk about being a "sellout" and "acting Black"...you have previously identified yourself as a "female White suburbanite", then "homosexual male city resident", then "Black person", then "mixed race person that does not identify with one particular race" then back to "homosexual White male". Speaking of giving away land, how's KK's 2 million dollar crime lab that turned into an 8 million dollar land deal for one of his buddies? | ||
Ilovedetroit Member Username: Ilovedetroit Post Number: 1984 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 24.172.45.2 |
How is that new house on Bishop Metro. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2185 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.141.79.112 |
"Ilovedetroit", once again you've gotten something wrong and it also sounds like you've added STALKING to your long list of shady behavior. Again, I hope that whomever you're watching doesn't have children. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3419 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.103.104.93 |
A couple questions.... 1. Where is DaninDC touting how great DC is and that there is nothing wrong and that the DC stadium deal is a great thing unlike the Detroit deal that was fucked up. 2. What did Archer do? Set the stage for the majority of development that is currently occuring and that KK is cutting ribbons for. Kales, Merchants Row, Lofts of Woodward, Brush Park Place and the Book Cadillac all were planned and started under Archer. One Kennedy Square would not be happening if the Campus Martius plan had not been started by Archer. C-Mart Park itself came from the Archer Administration.... Superbowl XL and the Streetscapes downtown all planned and started under Archer.... The vision for the RiverWalk and the construction of the first pahses of the Riverwalk began under Archer. The three casinos.... EDS started the negotiations to move downtown with the Archer Admin.... Look around to the Renaissance Zone program and the success the Archer Admin had with that. In addition to the American Axle HQ, Archer's team landed several manufacturing and assembly facilities during his tenure through the RZ program. By time he left office the RZ program had created 3,500 new jobs and totaled another $175 MM in new investment. The program continues today and continues to add jobs and investment as we have seen over in the I-94 Industrial Park. Archer also balanced the budget, creating surplus cash for the city and dramatically improved the bond rating of the City. To say "Oh puhhhhhhhhlease" about his tenure in office really makes one sound like a big fucking idiot. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1478 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.164.127 |
Skulker, you know ILD pretty well. | ||
Ilovedetroit Member Username: Ilovedetroit Post Number: 1986 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 66.192.63.5 |
Skulker - Yeah I am big idiot...makes you look like a stupid fool when 3/4s of this city were glad to see him go for not doing a damn thing in the neighborhoods or doing anything for preservation and bloating the city pay roll with a few thousand more employees. I am not saying he was all bad but he was no great god as you think. He was just a man who made mistakes. He was not great by any means. The business community was not sad to see him and his wimpy business practices leave. | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 350 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 64.79.90.206 |
Thanks, Skulker, for a great list. Once KK called my boss personally and asked my boss to give him the credit at a press conference for something my company had done. KK said that he has to run for re-election and my boss doesn't. It was said and taken in good humor. I don't blame KK for taking credit at ribbon-cuttings. Its just that he messes up so much else, lies, brags unnecessarily and unduly discredited his predessesor when silence would have been more dignified and diplomatic - He is just such an embarrassment. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3421 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.103.104.93 |
Really? When he left office he had a higher approval rating than Young did when Young left office... his scores were in the high 60s which is a phenomenal level for any politician. The massive land slide victory in 1997 (and his easy win over Sharon in 1993) make a mockery of your statement. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1482 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.164.127 |
Skulker, you have this problem of letting the facts get in the way of other peoples arguments. I believe ILD is talking about 3/4 of her/his personalities didn't approve of Dennis Archer. (Message edited by Merchantgander on January 19, 2006) (Message edited by Merchantgander on January 19, 2006) | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2186 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.144.94.219 |
"Ilovedetroit", is that kind of like your bogus claims that "3/4s of the people at Hendrix's formal announcement of his candidacy were White"...or when you backtracked and switched the story to "3/4s of them were suburbanites"? Speaking of "bloating the city payroll" are you talking about KK's bogus EPU overtime, unqualified friends and family, double-dipping Aunt Cheeks, double-dipping Karen Dumas, or Sharon McPhail's newly created position w/six-figure salary. And since you're speaking for the "business community", would that be in your "role" as "a middle class/creative class type" or your other claim of making "six figures"?  | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2187 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.144.94.219 |
"Ilovedetroit", speaking of wimpy, you are the posterboi for that term. | ||
Skamour14 Member Username: Skamour14 Post Number: 25 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 24.11.209.163 |
hey you guys all i know is that Archer was/ a great mediator and he gets results..... ILD you probally wouldnt come to the city if it wasnt halfway decent, I AM white and i live in the city,In midtown but hey i love detroit too!!! | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 3283 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.37.83.87 |
Skulkers list is correct. What he leaves out is that Archer used tax incentives to pay for each and every item on that list. He perfected the use of the DDA to funnel city funds into these developments. Yet, none of them have made any return on the investment as promised. Archer claimed $17b and hendrix claimed $22b but in reality I can only count as high as $150 million. | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 134 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.236.190.59 |
Im sorry I couldnt hear you .....All I heard was BLAH,BLAH,BLAH | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2235 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.228.56.223 |
Brian, at least your math skills are "getting better". When it came to KK's credit card abuses, you could only count as high as $9,000 (instead of $200k+, per the "Michigan Citizen", of course). | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3447 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.42.168.34 |
Interesting how CAY was a hero to Brian for how hey was able to get development done, but when Archer used the same techniques for devlopment, he is the goat.
As did CAY. Perhaps Brian forgets the battles over Riverfront Towers with CAY saying he wished he "had 10 more Max Fishers. The we could get something done in this City". CAY willingly and vocally pushed for tax breaks while Ken Cockrel Sr. fought it tooth and nail, printing up T shirts that read "Tax Max and his pal Al"
He didn't perfect it, he merely had more money to work with. He used the same model used by CAY when the Ren Cen, Millender Center and Trolley Plaza were led by CAY. CAYs model was so successful for the DDA that it poured more money into the coffers of the DDA.allowing Archer to repeat and expand upon the successes of CAY BTW, the build cost for Compuware alone was $375 MM. About $225 MM more than Brian is able to count. | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 3284 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.37.84.103 |
Skulker, no one mentioned Young nor did I ever compare Archer to Young nor did I ever comment on Young's development in his years as mayor. Young never stood on his actions in development as an example of his abilities or success as mayor. Young used the response he received from the people in Detroit to determine his success. Archer has only his claims of development as his accomplishments as mayor. To say that Archer's development is the same as Young's does cause Archer's actions to be beneficial. Using Young to try and push Archer is what you complained about with KK. Further, Archer did not have more money than Young. BUT Archer did borrow more money than Young when it came to funding his development plans. Archer also sold bldgs way under value in order to push his political agendas. Folks here constantly complain about Illitch, Acher/Hendrix gave away millions in land to their company for pennies on the dollar. Which is why I criticize these Hendrix supporters. They want to attack Illitch and then claim Hendrix/Archer did a good job. Also skulker frequently mis-states facts hoping folks forget or because the information is not accessible he hopes folks don't know the facts. The CPWR bldg received over $200m in tax incentives. That brings the total value of the CPWR investment way down to my figure above. At some point you have to pay for those tax incentives. They don't magically appear and disappear. Its where deficits come from. (This is the same slight of hand being played by the DDA for the BC project. Its why it can't be successful with the way the DDA desires to perform the development. You can't blame it on KK. He is relying on information provided to him from the BC's functional owners, the DDA.) | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2237 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.144.84.34 |
Brian, speaking of "slight of hand" and "response from the people of Detroit", you failed to acknowledge Archer's (60%+) approval ratings. As if your erroneous figures weren't enough. | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 3287 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.37.84.103 |
It appears those ratings were as ficticious as were Hendrix polls. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3449 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.103.104.93 |
Actually, you have frequently referenced CAY as being far more productive than Archer in creating tax base and jobs in the City. NOt in this particular thread but often in the past.
As opposed to Young who used City dollars to force thousands people out an area where more than 80% owned their homes, bulldoze their active churches and stores and then give the land to GM for free???? How stupid do you think people on this forum are? That they don't remember Poletown? That they don't remember J-NAP? That they don't remember Renaissance Center? The Copmuware tax break did not total $200 MM. This isn't about bashing Young. If you are going to criticize Archer for using certain development strategies, than all mayors using the same strategies ought to be criticized. CAY perfected the use of these tools and that is one of the reasons I have a prfound respect for what he was able to accomplish. Too bad your irrational hatred for Archer does not allow you to look around and see what is best for the PEOPLE of Detroit. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2241 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.248.9.33 |
Let's see Brian, Hendrix won the primary election and the polls were accurate. Hendrix "lost" the general election, and there is still a good deal of controversy in explaining Kilpatrick's numbers (losing the eastside, winning affluent districts, winning Hendrix areas, the "computer glitches", voter turnout, etc). Ficticious indeed. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1198 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
Rumor has it Dennis was able to negotiate a deal palatable to enough of the DC Council members where it has a chance to pass. This morning, Mayor Tony Williams reportedly said that the success of the deal is up to Council President (and mayoral hopeful) Linda Cropp. Ms. Cropp has previously said she would support the legislation if the concerns of the rest of the Council could be alleviated. Mayor Williams will present the plan to Council on Friday, and Council is expected to vote on it. It will be interesting to see what the implications of Ms. Cropp's vote will be in the mayoral election this fall, given the changing demographics of the District. It's also well-known that poorer residents East of the River, who are almost all black, vehemently oppose the legislation. Wealthier, and whiter, residents tend to favor the stadium legislation. Ms. Cropp herself is black. The District's share of the stadium funding is to be paid from a tax on businesses with gross annual receipts of $1 million or more. The issues debated in arbitration have more to do with overruns and cost increases. Some of these are infrastructure items, such as expanding a nearby subway station to accommodate game-day crowds (approximately half of all fans at RFK took Metro to Nationals games in 2005). It will be interesting to see what kind of plan they came up with to address these additional costs. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3451 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.42.168.34 |
So break it down for us DaninDC...compare it to the Detroit deal. In Detroit, the City split land acquisition and utility relocation with the Wayne County Stadium Authority. The City's money came from bonds through the DDA and the County's from bonds through a hotel tax. The State picked up the tab for the tab for freeway and state tunk line upgrades. The Tigers paid for 100% of the actual stadium cost or 2/3rds of the entire bill. BTW, the Tigers pay a ground lease to the DDA, which gets full onwership of the stadium 30 years after it opens. Is this the same sort of deal Archer has negotiated for DC? Or is DC's worse / better? | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1201 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
Details are supposed to become available this afternoon. I'll break it down as I see it once the Post publishes the story. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1203 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
Here's a link to the article from the Washington Post. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01 /27/AR2006012701150.html A few highlights: -DC Council already passed budget of $535 million. Cost now expected to be around $667 million. -DC will use traditional financing using traditional, tax-exempt, and taxable bonds. Private financing had been sought. -The lease will go before DC Council on February 7. The lease will not contain the financing provisions. -Stadium rent will be $20 million up front, and $5.5 million per year to the District. If the stadium is not finished for the 2008 season, the Nationals will pay $2.65 million per year at RFK. -Major League Baseball will now build a youth baseball facility. The team will provide $1 million toward the facility, and $250,000 for 10 years to operate it. DC to provide the land. -The team will give away 10,000 tickets a year to disadvantaged youth--an increase of 2000. -DC will split the proceeds of the sale of properties to the south of the new ballpark. DC will receive 57.5%, and the Nationals will receive 42.5%. -federal government will pay to increase the capacity of the Navy Yard Metro station to handle game-day crowds. The area is already seeing increased federal employment, with the new DOT headquarters nearby. -no money from the District's General Fund is to be used for the project. The funds will come from a tax on 1423 large businesses ($14 million a year) and a tax on utilities ($14 million a year--half of this is paid by the federal government), $24 million in annual revenue generated by the ballpark (tickets, concessions, parking), and rent. $37 million in revenue from the 2005 season will be used. This leaves an estimated $16 million annual surplus to be distributed by the Mayor and Council. -cost estimate includes $315 million for new stadium, $110 million for land acquisition (fair market value) Generally, I'm against using public financing to build sports facilities. I suppose I don't mind so much in this case, since no money is coming from the General Fund (that 9% tax bracket is a killer as it is). The largest businesses in town are typically law firms, lobbyists, and trade associations--firms with too much money on their hands anyway, so I don't feel the least bit bad about them being taxed for this. I'm still kind of uneasy about it all. MLB is making a killing with this deal, and I'm not convinced that the stadium will generate as much development as the Mayor thinks it will. Much like with MCI Center downtown, the area is already starting to redevelop on its own. What I do like is that there is already new housing going up in the area, and I hope that housing is part of the development mix around the stadium. The last thing I want to see is something akin to Camden Yards, where the stadium sits surrounded by parking lots with a couple bars across the street. | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 3289 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.73.32.221 |
Skulker's explanation of the Detroit deal is not a feather in Archer's cap. But then Hendrix claimed he negotiated the deal. They didn't negotiate for the city to own the stadium but the DDA. A body not answerable to the people of Detroit. Then the above explanation of the state paying for the freeway 'stuff' make it seems like it was part of the negotiation. But the state has to pay for those items regardless. Its a state road. The question was to the governor who had to decide if they would put MDOT money into those roads. MDOT is flush with money and the business owners like Illitch and GM wanted the stadium. Seems like Duggan also took credit for the stadium deal. But the truth is that the deal was smooth sailing and folks like Dennis, Freman and Michael were mostly along for the ride. There to sign the papers when the business owners told them where to sign. MD, maybe Hendrix win and the numbers from the primary is where the election fraud occured? But then its a guessing game. You claim fraud in the general and I will claim fraud in the primary. skulker if you are using forum history above, then why not summarize all the things about the BC that you got WRONG. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2256 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.144.81.200 |
Brian, there difference between our two claims about the elections are that mine have substance behind it versus yours being sour grapes. Now back to your "world" where complex business deals involve negotiating between only one or two people. And please don't talk about getting things wrong. You have made countless claims on here that were completely bogus either because you are ill-informed, a pathological liar, mentally ill, or some combination of the three. | ||
Ilovedetroit Member Username: Ilovedetroit Post Number: 2019 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 68.40.173.250 |
Metro - I actually know Brian and he is quite an intelligent guy...I would tend to believe anything he says over some bigot like you. | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 3292 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.37.84.192 |
So then a true statement, per MD, is that Archer did not negotiate the Detroit stadiums deals. (a team of people representing Detroit and Wayne County negotiated the deals.) A complete reversal in one thread. MD, IS Archer the sole negotiator in DC? If you now claim that the opposite your sarcastic sentence, I think you have contradicted yourself. FOlks like MD are more interested in forum fighting then speaking/writing the truth. Notice how MD did not claim the above until challenged on other claims asserted. Hendrix' tactic was to tell two different groups two different things and hope they never talked to each other. I did not think his supporters who try to practice on the same web site inside the same thread and by the same person. But as usual when MD starts calling names it means MD's been pushed far enough that MD doesn't have a clue of what to respond. Sorry MD. Now whats that about Sour Grapes? |
