  Rust Member Username: Rust Post Number: 76 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 64.118.136.130 |
It seems the level of discussion on what to do with the Joe Louis Arena is heating up. Any thoughts that this is related to annoucments in Foxtown: Free Press article: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060118/NEW S05/601180348 | ||
Wmuchris Member Username: Wmuchris Post Number: 127 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.58.36.2 |
Tear that schitt down | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1326 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.61.187.234 |
As if the fate of the Joe isn't already a foregone conclusion. Just like the UA and Fine Arts buildings. That's some great PR machine they've got going though. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 126 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
Maybe they could move the Joe over to Windsor. To this day, the city's premier arena is the original Red Wings home rink. | ||
Rberlin Member Username: Rberlin Post Number: 308 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 68.255.76.255 |
I hope they keep the name, if they build another one. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 2311 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.202.227.12 |
Yeah but we know that that ain't gonna happen... | ||
Super_d Member Username: Super_d Post Number: 566 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 69.246.115.84 |
Here's a ideal__ Trade the Redwings to the Palace for the Pistons to go home to the Joe! super d(motordetroit) | ||
J32885 Member Username: J32885 Post Number: 17 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 198.109.96.3 |
If you seen that recent sports documentary on FSN about Mike Ilitch, he said he has loss some of his business to The Palace, because it is a more modern and appealing arena than Joe Louis Arena. Knowing Mr. Ilitch he would rather have a newer arena than having to revenate The Joe. The Red Wings lease on the arena ends in 2008. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3404 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.103.104.93 |
Where ever the new arena is, its name ought to be The Octopus Gardens. | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2635 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 136.181.195.17 |
Interesting that for the last few years, there were all sorts of denials about a new arena from the family and now they acknowledge considering it. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3405 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.103.104.93 |
Interesting that folks might change their mind? There is the possibility they were thinking of it for the last few years and denied it because they didn't want rampant rumor mongering interfering with making rational decisions....and then there is the possibility it really wasn't an issue for the last few years. Seems like a normal course of business for any team owner or business owner for that matter. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1146 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94 |
Wow, that article told me something I didn't already know. Not. They may want it near the Fox, but where are there lots big enough for it, unless they redirect roads and old buildings like they did for CoPa? I could see them putting it over the Motown Bldg site or somewhere in there, probably redirecting Cass or something. They best place for a new Arena, I think, is the southwest corner of Gratiot and I-375, where Greektown Casino considered moving for a while. A deal to move the jail might have to be orchestrated by the Ilitches. The MGM grand site that will soon be vacated (right?) is in a less visitor-geared part of town near the Federal Bldg. That would be a good place for a new court and jail, especially if Police HQ was moved to that neighborhood (Central Depot). Wow that's quite a scenario I just outlined. | ||
Mikeydbn Member Username: Mikeydbn Post Number: 281 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 35.11.141.32 |
Any new arena would not hold the JL name. Corporate sponsorship atcha! Perhaps the GM arena? (to go with Ford Field) | ||
Genesyxx Member Username: Genesyxx Post Number: 407 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 209.69.165.10 |
The fact that it's published says something... the fact that it's only 4 paragraphs long says something else. We all know that the Wings deserve a better stadium, and the land that would be JLA would make a great expansion for Cobo, thereby making everyone happy... wait, what was my point? | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1148 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94 |
Yeah...the expansion for Cobo could be called the Joe Louis Center or something like that, if the new arena doesn't retain the namesake. | ||
J32885 Member Username: J32885 Post Number: 18 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 68.41.108.161 |
I've been hearing rumors for years, that the reason why the Ilitches bought those ambandon buildings behind the Fox Theater, was to build a new arena for the Red Wings. Personally, I rather see them use the Tiger Stadium site. The Ilitches should either convert the old ballpark to an indoor arena, or sadly tear Tiger Stadium for a new modern sports arena. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 879 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.246.13.131 |
There was a press conference on April 1, 1977 announcing an agreement to build Olympia II across the street from the Silver Dome. CAY and City Council rushed thur the plans to build a civic arena and the rest is well known history. In their haste to fast track the new arena a few details were forgotten. One of which was a press box!. They also never made any accommodations for TV. In short it is a very poorly designed venue. There is no elevator access to the press box, therefore, all of the cameras and lenses have to be lugged up the stairs to the makeshift press box. It was actually worse then Olympia. As a side note; when Ford field went out for bid, one entire level was missed when the spec was written for the TV monitors. The result was that cost was added to the bill sent to the TV stations they paid to have the stadium pre wired for them. What should have been a 20K bill ended up being close to 60K for each TV station. Comerica Park has a few skeletons too: At Joe Louis, back when fiber optic lines were run for TV broadcast, a local station paid the installation cost and the monthly charge for the service directly to Michigan Bell. It was a good deal, the station had full access anytime they wanted it and it cost about $400 a month. That arrangement continues to this day. At Copak, the Tigers own the installation of the fiber and pay the monthly charge. They in turn charge the broadcaster a $600 PER GAME access fee to the fiber. Talk about greed. I trust that “arrangement” will take place in a new arena if owed by the Illich organization. | ||
Crew Member Username: Crew Post Number: 800 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 146.9.52.19 |
If they do end up knocking down JLA, I doubt we'll hear a lot of protests. It just doesn't have the same emotional connection as Olympia or Tiger Stadium. | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 753 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.227.85.204 |
arg, here we go again. ilitch amassed all that land behind the fox for copa. there were some hold-outs that sed they would not move for any amount of money (most notably the temple of i am; white church on grand river). this forced them to move it to it's present location. ilitches are so mum because they don't want speculators grabbing the land (whether it be this site or another) then jacking up the price. they also don't want a debacle, like with copa, in the press. odds are, all negotiations for land etc., will be done in secret and the public will be the last to know. but, of course, this is all moot because nobody has asked the big question: who will pay for it? ilitches are barely making their payments for copa, stadium authority has no money, wayne county is not in a position to fund it, and we all know what state the city is in. regardless, my opinion is to build new and expand cobo/the riverwalk. should not build it directly downtown (like behind the fox), but just outside. we've already decimated enough urban space for seasonal/occasional use facilities. corktown folks don't really want the new joe in their hood, 'cuz they are really gearing up towards a dense neighborhood (not vast surface parking like for tiger stadium). maybe find some land around motor city casino? or just east of eatern market? | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1565 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.105 |
j32885, the building Ilitch owns behind the FOx weren't bought for a new hockey stadium. They were bought for Comerica park. It was originally supposed to go there. There wasn't enough land when they added Ford Field. The plans for Comerica park were moved to the other side of Woodward when Ford Field was added to the project. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 384 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.10.63.140 |
I hope they build new as well. It would be a nice boost to the economy, as lots of services are needed for all the development that occurs with a new stadium. City is pressed for jobs, even this one-time deal would be good, generate some more tax dollars too. Tear down JLA, and thats prime real estate for either an expanded COBO or a future development. I hope it goes over the old Motown site....That would extend downtown and make the link between Downtown-Midtown more concrete, and usher in more development. Plus, the JLA parking structures downtown could now be used for office space perhaps, and maybe that would help stop the creation of all the new parking downtown..not much parking would need to be added if the new arena was placed near the Motown site, all of the Illitches lots would do fine...man they r gonna make out great on this one... i hope they dont knock down a few square blocks of a downtown that is already losing its density for the new arena... Motown area isnt dense, and has no major buidings in the area...streetowkr would need to be done...much less cost for the city than COmerica Park, where they had $35 million in streetscape and structural costs (Message edited by motorcitymayor2026 on January 18, 2006) | ||
Dpd_blue Member Username: Dpd_blue Post Number: 142 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 68.252.71.233 |
There's plenty of land on the NW corner of Woodward and I-75. The arena could go from I-75 to Temple and over to Park. Plenty of vacant land there and the city owns the parking lots on Woodward. Plus you already have established parking in the area for the games (Fox Garage, Garage next to Comerica Park, Ford Field's new garage plus Grand Circus Park garage). Will The Comet be the next Cobo Joe's? | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3415 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.103.104.93 |
Dpd Blue and others: NW corner of Woodward and I-75 is slated for a retail / residential new build development that is wending its way through the development agreement process at PDD. The area is also the site for the proposed Motown Center. Laying that traffic heavy of a use across and amidst the burgeoning residential uses surrounding the area will not fly and is a poor land use idea. Not gonna fly with CPC or PDD or the developers who have holdong letters on the land. A hockey arena is smaller than a baseball stadium and could conceivably fit behind the Fox, withoiut impacting Temple of I Am, although it would be very tricky to do right and retain a good urban feel. I would be trepidatious of massive parking structures at the Tuller / UA site to support an arena north of theses two sites. The site at the SW corner of Gratiot and 375 seems too small at first eye-ball. Tiger Stadium as a site would be fought tooth and nail and rightly so. For more than a year I have advocated on this forum, and everywhere anyone will listen, a site that makes sense and has been alluded to previously by other posters. Have MGM donate their temporary site to the City and take the tax write off, flip it to Olympia for demo and replacement with a new arena. Everyone comes out smelling like a rose. MGM has a huge tax write off and doesn't incur the carry cost of the site. The City doesn't have to get into condemnation battles. Olympia gets a site with prime access and much lower costs for buildout. The project saves huge land acquisition costs and has a pre-constructed parking deck thus realizing further cost savings and time. The site has great freeway access saving further infrastructure costs for the state. Last I heard, the Stadium Authority is not running low on cash, in fact the opposite, they are just prevented from spending it on anything other than the two exisiting stadiums. A tweak to the enabling legislation and a public vote to approve the tweak would remedy that and allow cash to flow to a hockey arena project. The Red Wings and the Tigers are seperate entities and the financial difficulties at COPA would not impact a new hockey arena as that would be a separate and stand alone project. The only downside is that the MGM is well removed from any People Mover stations. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6474 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.20 |
Skulker hates buildings. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 388 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.10.63.140 |
That does make a lot of sense. Have there been talks between MGM and the necessary entities to make this happen?? How much money does the Stadium Authority have now, and what are they spending it on now? I didnt realize that the SA was continued well after the completion of the projects. the MGM parking garage is nearly as large as the JLA parking deck right??? I understand the point behind not allowing the stadium at the Motown site, but wouldnt it improve the entire area by extending the downtown area? More tourists, more shops, bars, restuarant?? maybe even more residents interested in a downtown feeling? I hate to see the density being destroyed for stadiums. It seems downtown is getting smaller and smaller, in terms of new project sizes. Although downtown hasnt looked better in 30+ years, you would think that now would be a good opportunity, while land is available, to extend downtown perimeters | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3040 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
If they can sell of some of their properties, and get the ones they want to up and running, the funding won't be much of a problem, as well as all of the incentives they will get from the city (obviously) to keep the Wings in Detroit, and preferably downtown. The biggest problems seem to be with logistics, finding a suitable site that can handle the traffic and fit into downtown. It seems like this will be a MUCH easier fit than what they had to go through with Comerica (tearing down and entire neighborhood). Just my opinion, but the Joe needs to go, and that area made available to Cobo for any future expansions, or a convention hotel. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 131 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
"the Joe needs to go, and that area made available to Cobo for any future expansions" For the reason stated above I believe that the Wings will eventually get a new arena downtown. Making room for a larger Cobo will receive support from a variety of sources, including the Detroit Automotive Dealers Association. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1354 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
I'm not sure if you have to register still in order to view, but look here: http://www.urbanplanet.org/for ums/index.php?showtopic=20328 It actually fits behind the fox without much trouble. I also like Skulker's idea. There are serious issues withe the NW of Woodward/75 proposal, but it has its advantages, and we all know plans can change. One thing to consider is how does the placement effect the other parts of the empire and their competitors. (Does putting it near the MGM help the Motor City's rival?) This is my original post (from the above urban planet link) that started a discussion about a very similar topic:
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Motif Member Username: Motif Post Number: 16 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 152.163.100.195 |
^Agreed The Joe is the perfect property for an expanded Cobo | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1769 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 207.69.138.140 |
We went thru this same discussion a few months back, and some forumers used photoshop to overlay aerial shots of downtown to see where a good fit would be. In fact, they decided to use the footprint of the palace as well as the Joe to find a good fit. Two areas that looked promising were the west Foxtown area, one between the existing buildings on Park Ave upto Cass. The other was the triangle of land between Cass and Grand River. Both sites had Adams Ave. on the south, and Fisher Service Drive on the north. My preferred site is the triangle between Cass and Grand River. It was shown that the "I Am" church could stay, and not end up a decorative sidewalk. That would greatly improve Grand River Ave. from its' current pathetic condition, and make it a viable street in the Entertainment district, with MotorCity Casino to the northwest, and MGM Grand Casino to the west. It would also help the chances for developing the GAR Building. And who knows, it might (a true pipe dream of mine) even help with the resurgence of THE MICHIGAN THEATRE. The one thing I would like to see under such a scenario would be to have the beautiful 2 story arched Moose Lodge (does Blair McGowan still own it?) moved across Cass over to one of the vast parking lots in the west Foxtown area (like the Gem Theatre was moved for the Stadia district). With a new arena near both MGM and MotorCity Casino's, both casinos would have an arena close at hand for promoting fights and other big casino sponsored entertainments. Also, JLA will NOT be the name of a new arena. With the big bucks that naming rights for sporting facilities bring, the naming rights would fit into Mike Ilitch's plans to help pay for the new arena. When MGM Casino moves, I would love to have the temporary casino turned into a Magic Johnson Movie Complex. Its' Art Deco exterior look is perfect for such a theatre conversion. It would be a shame to destroy a complex that had over $200 million in improvements spent on it, when it went from being an ugly IRS building into a nice looking casino. Why destroy that nice building when there's lots of parking lots that can be "destroyed"? Does it make sense to destroy a $200 million dollar complex to build a $100 million dollar complex? Let's ADD value to downtown, not rob Peter to pay Paul. | ||
Quickdrawmcgraw Member Username: Quickdrawmcgraw Post Number: 36 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 63.77.247.130 |
1. Tear down Tiger Stadium and replace with a newer Red Wing stadium to blend in with the existing community. 2. Work with Corktown CDC to limit surface parking or rezone for residential use. 3. Work with MDOT & CofD and that Maroun guy to renovate the old train station to allow parking and maybe future transportation for the area & downtown. 4. Replace Joe Louis Arena (he does have a fist & statue) with an expanded Cobo Center. 5. Modernize the facade of Cobo. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1356 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. I think two things will help downtown the most: 1. More density and intensity within the current boundaries. 2. More active (and financially attractive) uses in the surrounding areas. One of vistor's most frequent complaints is that there is not "it spot" that you can go without a plan in downtown. (Except Greektown) Spreading downtown out more will limit the likelihood that this spot can be created. I think it is apparent that with Ilitch investment around GCP to go with the vast investments to CM, Woodward, Washington, and Broadway, that this area has the potential to be dense and active most of the time. Making the edges of downtown attractive to walk through and live in is the most important thing at this point. (Attractive for people like me, who live a 25 minute walk north of GCP, to walk through. I do it often, but I'm not all people. Many would feel more comfortable driving, regardless of distance.) There is more than enough space, both vacant land and underused buildings withing the ring of freeways and rivers currently to accomodate a great number of additional "residents interested in a downtown feeling." In addition, "I hate to see the density being destroyed for stadiums" as well. But you will find that in some places being discussed, that there is little density. Open up google maps and look at the area. My concern is that street grid be preserved to the extreme extent feasible. I feel that if we don't do that, our downtown will not be walkable, and that we will create a number of border vacums that will suck the life out of vast areas of downtown. That is why I think we have to be extremely careful where a new arena is placed, as well as an FBI building, parking decks, bus terminals, and casinos. The damage has been done with CoPa and Ford field, and it may have been worth it, and there may be no way around it. But at this point, I can't imagine a use that should require desecration of more than a little public ROW, especially areas set out in Woodward's plan. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1357 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
If you look at my post above from UrbanPlanet, I think that JLA is probably too small (we are looking for improvement), but the Palace is way too big. The Palace is a stand alone facility surrounded by a parking lot. Many of the things provided in the Palace can be placed across a street from an arena, even connected to it with a skywalk if need be. To use a CoPa analogy, if the baseball stadium where the like the palace, The Elwood would be inside, but it functions perfectly well across the street in a downtown setting. It would fit without too much trouble between: N: Montcalm S: Elizabeth E: Park W: Clifford This would only take out one block of a non-through street, and a few small buildings (please fill me in on what they are). The fire station and the Iodent will be fine. Surrouding vacant land, especially to the north and west can be arena associated functions that would in a suburban setting be placed inside the doors. I like the triangle idea that Gistok speaks of as well, but I don't see them putting it so far from the fox (and Hockey town) and so close to a competing casino. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1773 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 207.69.138.140 |
Hey Jsmyers, I bet that guy who owns (or owned?) the Film Vault Building near Montcalm (with the orange decorative panels), would probably start rehabbing that building again if he got an inkling of the new arena going in the area. Remember when he put all new windows into that building, only to halt all construction once he found out that the Tigers (and now Lions) were building east of Woodward, instead of the west side where his building was? What a hoot that was.  | ||
Dtwphoenix Member Username: Dtwphoenix Post Number: 37 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 70.190.215.201 |
If the following location were to be used: N: Montcalm S: Elizabeth E: Park W: Clifford The Iodent and any other desirable buildings would need to be moved. I like Jsmyers'suggestion of closing off the streets immediately adjacent during events. Possibly the streets on that block could be narrowed slightly, allowing space that would have normally have been used for on street parking to be taken by a slightly larger arena. Maybe the Cass/Columbia/Clifford/Elizabe th block could be incorporated into the arena complex with basement VVIP parking. A tunnel and pedestrian overpass could be used to access court/ice side seats as well as suites. VIP bar/restaurant could be located in this building accessible via the suite overpass. If that site isn't large enough, the triangular area between cass and grand river is larger, and wouldn't destroy the street grid. Having it there may also leave more Foxtown land for future development. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1410 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.212.40.219 |
Dtw,phoenix, you solve the problem by closing off Clifford at Adams or Elizabeth. A new arena, if the same dimensions as the Joe, can parallel Cass Avenue and still allow for the Iodent and fire house to remain. The two hotels/apartments on Columbia would have to be demolished and the residence on Elizabeth would have to be moved or torn down. The garage or storage building on Elizabeth would also have to be demolished. I don't believe there is enough room to fit an arena between Montcalm to the north and Elizabeth to the south. One of these streets would have to be closed. I would close Elizabeth between Park and Cass and keep Montcalm open because there is more activity on Montcalm. Under NO conditions should Cass Avenue ever be closed to make room for an arena. It is the only two-way street that can get traffic directly to and from Cass Corridor/Midtown. Close Cass Avenue off at Adams or Elizabeth and traffic has to use Grand River to go north and south, and the problem with that is that it would create too much traffic on both sides of the Fisher Freeway service drives. Traffic coming south on Cass would have to turn west on the north service drive(running into the traffic getting off the Fisher at Second and running into the traffic trying to get on the Fisher just west of Grand River), turn south on Grand River and then east on Elizabeth or Adams to get to the arena. Those wanting to get back on Cass heading north would have to go north on Grand River, turn east on the south service drive(running into traffic coming off the Fisher) and turn north on Cass to continue into Cass Corridor/Midtown. The only other way to head north on Cass is to take Grand River to Temple and that's just going too far out of the way. Now, if you know me, you know that I don't like a lot of street rerouting. Also, if you cut off Cass Avenue for an arena, then the "Moose-Lodge" Building will have to be demolished. I am hoping that this building can be saved and renovated. | ||
Ericdfan Member Username: Ericdfan Post Number: 68 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 68.41.117.60 |
The new arena will be named Kwame Kilptatrick arena, dontcha know? lol | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 12 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 129.9.163.106 |
How 'bout Kwame-Lincoln Navigator arena? | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1358 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
I don't think that is true at all. Both the fire station and the Iodent are in the very corner of the area. Arena's are generally oval. I don't have time now to dig up links for everybody, but use google maps to look at the footprint of other arenas. I looked at Madison Square Gardens, The United Center, JLA, and the Palace. All put the Palace would fit on that site without touching the Iodent nor the fire station. And I've discussed the reasons that I don't believe a new Detroit arena will want to big that big and all-inclusive. There are another few small buildings on the site, and I'm hoping somebody can refresh my memory about what they are. They will have to be moved or demolished. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 2315 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.202.227.12 |
One appears to be a "no tell motel" on the street south of where Centaur is (maybe ELizabeth?) and another pre 20th century looking structure with a horrendous 'modernization' job done to it... | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3417 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.103.104.93 |
Let me repeat something that is fairly obvious if one thinks about it for more than 30 seconds and has been discussed here before time and time again and has been very quickly eliminated as feasible option by two different planning groups.... .....ahem..... COBO CONVENTION CENTER IS NOT HELPED BY THE REMOVAL OF JOE LOUIS ARENA! The area gained by expanding westward over the site currently occupied by JLA is not large enough make the contiguous space that is needed to keep Cobo competitive for the NAIAS. It falls about 175,000 feet short of what is needed. Expanding westward presents two massive logistical nightmares. 1. It requires the closure of the truck docks and loading bays for more than 18 months. This effectively kills the ability to continue having shows during the remodeling phase which would sound the death knell for the Cobo. Any temporary docking / loading solutions would be very expensive and very disruptive to the remainder of the Cobo and especially to downtown. We're talking 40% of the total renovation costs could be potentially absorbed by the rerouting and internal temporary modifications needed to keep Cobo functioning at 2/3rd's capacity. 2. Westward expansion requires SIGNIFICANT modification and rebuilding activity on Jefferson and M-10 at very significant costs. These modifications include lowering of the streets and creating appropriate grades for several hundered yards out from the facility as well as trying to engineer the proper construction of the foundations and footers for the expansion so they don't wind up in the middle of the rights of way. A westward expansion over the site of JLA nets less square footage than an eastward exapnsion and would cost significantly more ((I have heard as much as 40% more) than an eastward expansion would. Quickdraw: A Tiger Stadium site deal would be fought tooth and nail by the Corktown community and I would back them 100% on it. The only way the parking lot situation could be remedied would be for the City to condemn the lots and flip them to devlopers for residential and commercial redevelopment. That is a very dicey legal strategy not to mention prohibitively expensive. | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 1953 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 130.132.177.245 |
Why does the Joe Louis Arena NEED to go? Is it optimal as a modern stadium? No, but so what? Is it the best possible use for that land? No, but so what? It is what is there. Short of a pressing need to use the riverfront land for something more important (and Cobo Hall expansion over the Joe Louis arena site would be $$$ given the road layout, that's why it is such a clusterf*ck getting to Joe Louis Arena), or its complete obsolencense as a multi-use stadium why get rid of it? Face it metro Detroit for the near future will have an eroding population base, or at best a level one with eroding pay scales ... building a new stadium simply for the sake of having a more modern stadium is ridiculous given the public cost in doing so (and when you consider the $$ that has already been spent in building Joe Louis Arena it is just silly and a waste of resources). | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3420 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.103.104.93 |
Agreed, which is why I like my free land and parking deck idea at MGM, leaving the Wings with the bill for the construction of the arena if they truly need a new one. Blowing out the Joe would provide a great opportunity for an attached hotel with direct riverfront access for a remodeled Cobo. Reconfigure the southern edge of Cobo to be retail friendly and provide an nice urban experience with shops and restaurtants adjacent to a reconfigured Hart Plaza and you could have a killer public space. Imagine what could be done to create connectivity between the site of JLA and Hart Plaza....its a real opportunity for special placemaking..... | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 1954 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 130.132.177.245 |
Skulker, imo Detroit would be much better served if such creative development energy was spent improving commerical strips where Detroiters actually live (and MIGHT actually shop, btw) rather than continuously finessing the hollows of the CBD for an imaginary demographic. Is the CBD even remotely perfect? hell no ... but good god ... when will it stop ... how many imaginary hotels do ya wanna build there skulker? lol | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 389 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 172.164.125.43 |
Skulker has some excellent ideas on this subject. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 15 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 129.9.163.234 |
Rustic--tear that done-in-a-hurry-to-get-the-GOP -convention-poorly-designed-sc hitt down. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 137 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
BTW, GM is not a likely sponsor for a replacement of the Joe. Vancouver's arena, "GM Place", already has GM's corporate sponsorship. | ||
Ericdfan Member Username: Ericdfan Post Number: 72 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 68.41.117.60 |
I can imagine it being some horribly-longer-than-nessassar y name under corporate sponsorship... maybe like "Cayman islands offshore holding corporation arena" lol jk | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 1958 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 130.132.177.245 |
56pacman, on anyone's reasonable list (imaginary or real) of schitt to tear down in metro Detroit, Joe Louis Arena would probably be something like number 500 if not even lower than that. Hell, off the top of my head I can think of 4 sports arenas/auditoriums with MUCH more compelling arguments for teardown (namely that they are currently abandoned or severely underutilized) than Joe Louis Arena (i.e. Silverdome, Tiger Stadium (alas!), Ford Auditorium, and Cobo Arena). jeez a little perspective pacman, don't go gobbling up functioning buildings ... |
