  Spidergirl Member Username: Spidergirl Post Number: 149 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 63.77.247.130 |
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20060117/B IZ03/601170367 It will be interesting to see how the economy will affect new home and loft/condo converstions going on downtown. Any thoughts? | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1141 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94 |
OVERSUPPLY. While county by county generalizations help, everything with real estate is still local. The downtown boom should continue. The inner ring should be more stable price-wise than the sprawling sections, because their prices never got so tremendously inflated in the first place, plus, people's tastes re: subdivisions may be starting to change. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8055 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.156.93.249 |
Could it be that prices were artificially inflated for years? It seemed to be that the price of a standard 3 bedroom house was pretty steep the last 5 years. Also, the change for Detroit was the smallest of all three locations, that could be seen as a bit of good news for the city. IE: Stabilization. | ||
Atl_runner Member Username: Atl_runner Post Number: 1781 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.209.118.72 |
My guess is that it will help. In a market like that (as every other), location means more than anything. People understand that. The type of people who are going to buy a loft / condo downtown are the same types who might by a bungalow near downtown royal oak etc.. In that regard, those folks might shy away from a questionable home market and go for a almost guaranteed investment in Downtown Detroit living. Just a guess, but instinct tells me that the CBD will reap the benefits of a stalled housing market. Imagine what is going through peoples minds when they suddenly are forced to realize that they live near nothing attractive in a non descript area like thousands of others.. and they want to sell their house. Ouch. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1461 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.164.127 |
2006 will be worse and 2007 most likely will be extremely ugly. More people will be staying in the inner ring suburbs and young college graduates (the ones that don't leave the state) and empty nesters will prefer to live in an urban environment(Detroit). The upper middle class is shrinking in Michigan and the lower middle class is growing which is caused by the loss of manufacturing jobs and pay cuts they will have to take. This will cause sprawl to slow down and cause outer ring suburbs housing market take a beating. These are the current trends in Michigan and they will be more apparent in the coming years. But there will be progress in late 2007 and the beginning 2008. | ||
Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism Post Number: 325 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.215.30.34 |
That report speaks for the Metro area as a whole. The part that is most troubling is the length of time houses are on the market. Prices in the CBD may be more stable than the exburbs and the pricey communities such as parts of Macomb County, Bloomfield Hills, Birmingham or Grosse Pointe. However, the prices of condos/lofts downtown aren't exactly cheap if you consider that many people in this city are losing jobs and unemployed/under-employed. In order to afford the $200,000-$250,000 range of prices for a loft/condo, the buyers need to be making a steady income hopefully above $70,000/year which is roughly 1/3. If employment levels can be boosted, the housing market will certainly improve as well. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 5366 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.214.200.180 |
I dunno, the developer of our lofts is having difficulty renting out the other units in phase one...and a few forumers who were selling condos both downtown and in Southfield were laid off in recent months...although I think there was some success in a few offerings of loft condos (not rentals) where tax abatements were available. Which loft development sold out in it's first DAY...was it those down on Brooklyn off Michigan or the ones near the Medical Center? I'd love to hear how the Park Shelton lofts are selling at those prices, too. Northend, where are you?! Chime in here fella... Here is a discussion we had about eight months ago on the subject, when the story broke about real estate appraisers fudging their numbers. I remember others, but they don't appear with the search terms I put into the engine. Atl_runner might be right on the regional survival, though, just last night I spoke with one of my clients down here in Albuquerque who works in commercial real estate...his end-of-year set records in his business. Dunno what the residential market is doing here, though, I'll just say you don't quite see the number of For Sale signs that you do in the D. Cheers from VERY chilly NM this morning, John | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 5367 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.214.200.180 |
OK, this doesn't count as a discussion...but another two cents from one direction. I am amazed at the number of threads I'm NOT in...how the heck did I get 5300 posts? Nobody answer that... | ||
Udmphikapbob Member Username: Udmphikapbob Post Number: 86 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 206.81.45.34 |
you mean my 50-year-old ranch in Livonia isn't really worth $190/sq.ft.? shocked i am... however it has to appreciate so i can afford a nice down payment on a sweet loft in a couple of years! | ||
Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism Post Number: 326 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.215.30.34 |
Another troubling fact is the outbound migration data from United Van Lines(http://www.unitedvanlines.com/ mover/united-newsroom/press-re leases/2005/2005-united-migrat ion-study-01-06.htm) I believe United Van Lines' data may just be part of the overall picture regarding people leaving the state of Michigan. It may be worse or it may not be as bad, if more inbound migration had occured without being recorded in the analysis. So, just another important factor playing into the situation of the gloomy housing market. | ||
Track75 Member Username: Track75 Post Number: 2186 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 12.75.20.10 |
If I'm reading Darwinism's link correctly, Michigan has been a net "outbound" state for a long time.
There's probably some census data that's more complete than the United Van Lines data, but 29 consecutive years of being an "outbound" state kinda sucks. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2164 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.221.68.81 |
Merchantgander, at this point (and for the immediate future), I'd say young college grads (that don't leave the state) are just as, if not much more, likely to live in an inner-ring suburb, as in Detroit. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1467 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.164.127 |
I can agree with that. | ||
Spidergirl Member Username: Spidergirl Post Number: 150 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 63.77.247.130 |
I wonder if the outbound stats have anything to do with the so-called Snow Birds, and the amount of people who retire in warmer climates? | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1142 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94 |
"More people will be staying in the inner ring suburbs and young college graduates (the ones that don't leave the state) and empty nesters will prefer to live in an urban environment(Detroit)." I think things will at least trend this way, Merchantgander. But most people 30 and over right now will still look to the 'burbs and the new development they often grew up in, and it is scary, but there are still too many people closer to 20 that are accustomed to subdivision life and scared of cities and actually envision themselves living off 89 mile road. I see a pretty stagnant market, with new home building slowing (thank God), and inner ring prices remaing stable with low demand (Grosse Pointe, which I've been paying attention too, has seen no real price growth over the last 2 years and very few houses are entering the market right now.) I think Ann Arbor (led by it's inner sections and not the sprawling sections) and downtown Detroit may be the only places that will have quick turnover and continued price increases over the next 2 years. David Hall is gonna have to find a new way to make money. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 63 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.2.191.57 |
<<< Considering booking my imminent inbound move with United to help skew the stats - an ethical dilemma. | ||
Bibs Member Username: Bibs Post Number: 438 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 152.163.100.195 |
I'm more concerned about demographics. The baby boomers are entering retirement in greater and greater numbers. Are they going to remain in Michigan? Or are they going to sell the ranch and move to a warmer climate? This could have a more significant impact on realestate values than short term economic trends. | ||
Courtney Member Username: Courtney Post Number: 91 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 68.248.1.8 |
Yeah, no houses are entering the market because every other one is already on the market in GP. Okay, slight exaggeration, but it's still rather alarming just how many seem to be for sale. Some people are still pricing their houses so insanely expensive it's hardly "news" that prices would drop. I have a few favourites I check regularly - one has dropped $25k from it's asking price in the year it's been listed. It'll need to be dropped way more before anyone would be insane enough to buy it. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 64 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.2.191.57 |
"Jobs? We don't need no steenkin' jobs." A repatriating baby-boomer retiree fed up with severely hot climates | ||
Motownlifer Member Username: Motownlifer Post Number: 8 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.43.233.171 |
In my experience, 20-30 year olds with any money are still buying condos and new homes 20-30 miles from the city. I have watched them do it right out of college. Only DNA barren, (read as no-children planned bisexual heteros that are married) will move to the city. No one planning a baby nest would ever raise a child in a loft. These are temporary bang me housing units that are stimulated by Sienfeld and Friends addicts. Get real. I see more middle-aged, empty-nester grey people moving or wanting to move downtown. Some are dragged into warmer climates. Why are hospitals moving to the suburbs? Their econo-brains tell them that's where people with 'real' health insurance will be in 20 years. Downtown Detroit will have STD and Methadone clinics- okay you got me, but how many people will need that everyday? The rats get better care than the patients at DMC for god's sake. The ghetto suburbs will provide a home for the 'new' low paying industrial jobs and there won't be too many of those anyway. The prime real estate will still be prime and you can't ruin that no matter how much you try. Admit it - we all stayed too long waiting for something to save this region and it's too late to get out. We are fucked. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 1640 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.2.149.93 |
Odd times. There is so much new development going on in the center of the city, I just don't know where all the new residents are going to come from, especially if they cannot sell their homes in the inner ring burbs. I know one guy who's all hyped to move to a condo near WSU, but can't sell his house in Pleasant Ridge... My folks live in the morbidly dull, aging suburb of Redford, where they moved from NW Detroit 26 years ago. Lately there are more and more empty houses near them. Practically one on every block. Lots of forclosures, lots of houses for sale that will not sell, and a noticeable increase in renters. The few people buying seem to be folks with kids, fleeing the dismal Detroit Public Schools. Meanwhile, over here by St. Annes, all the new condos seem to be selling, and five new neighbors have moved into five new houses on my block since xmas. | ||
Huggybear Member Username: Huggybear Post Number: 126 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 68.79.96.11 |
We need more immigrants. There was a thread on this a while back. | ||
Corktownmark Member Username: Corktownmark Post Number: 150 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.61.194.191 |
Those Condos at St Annes are great. with the twin spires and the bridge lights at night. | ||
Neilr Member Username: Neilr Post Number: 173 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.242.215.65 |
Motownlifer, This has not been my experience. I had received in years past excellent care at Detroit Receiving Hospital and continue to see doctors at Harper's Professional Bldg. And I have "real insurance." I could go wherever I choose and I choose to get my medical care at DMC because I feel that it's simply the best choice for me.
Detroit is certainly not all that I want it to be yet and I'm not all that I want me to be yet either; but I am proud to have lived and worked in Detroit for almost 40 years. And unless, by some unforeseen circumstances, I'm ever able to afford a good apartment on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, Detroit will continue to be my home. I'm sorry that you have had different experiences which have brought you to a different point. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1143 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94 |
Agreeing with Huggybear. | ||
Huggybear Member Username: Huggybear Post Number: 131 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 68.79.96.11 |
Immigration makes sense because Detroit has a huge fixed cost in infrastructure - the place is built and run for 1.2-1.4mm and is down between 1/3 and 1/2 million. Even if the people who come in do not have jobs on the day they arrive, - It would not increase the welfare burden on the city or state. Post-1996 immigrants are ineligible for SSI (in Michigan, state disability assistance) or food stamps and must wait five years for eligibility for Medicaid or the Family Independence Program (welfare); - City services such as trash collection travel existing routes - and we don't exactly adjust those based on how dense a street is; - Other services such as water are provided on a usage basis and paid for by the users; and - Repopulating will take some burden off the police to patrol desolate, empty areas and the fire department to fight fires in totally abandoned structures. In some sense, people living in neighborhoods police themselves. The southwest Detroit experience, from what I understand from people in government down there, has been pretty positive - even in regard to undocumented aliens. The developing world has plenty of hard-working, motivated people - let's open the doors. That is essentially how Detroit got populated in the first place. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 5373 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.42.168.211 |
The rats get better care than the patients at DMC for god's sake. Utter crap. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1144 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94 |
Think twice before you say that. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1768 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 207.69.139.13 |
I think he meant Detroit Receiving.... and everyone I talked to was apprehensive about going (the first time)... but now they rave at how wonderful it is. Exactly what part of DMC sucks? | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1469 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.164.127 |
Motownlifer sounds like a dumbass. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1470 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.164.127 |
If Detroit receiving was such a shit hospital, how come that is where the president would go if something went wrong with him when he is in the area. Karmonos - Top notch cancer hospital Hutzel - Where women go for complicated pregnancy. Children Hospital - Best in the state for children. DMC on a whole is a very good health system. Better then Beaumont the worst thing you can do is judge a health systems performance by their bottom line their is little correlation between the two. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1145 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94 |
Harper is not so bad itself. The DMC draws on the best professionals from UM, Wayne, schools around the country, and overseas. Children's Hosp. is up there in terms of the whole region/nation. | ||
Brandon48202 Member Username: Brandon48202 Post Number: 48 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.248.15.192 |
What does this have to do with plummeting house values? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6464 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.20 |
Quality of life issues affect housing prices. Someone above incorrectly claimed that DMC is bad. | ||
Motownlifer Member Username: Motownlifer Post Number: 9 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.43.233.171 |
Hospital Rankings have nothing to do with this thread. Do your own research on DMC and Receiving, They don't even rank in national hospital ratings in most categories. So get over it. It was a random spew - it didn't belong in the post to begin with. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6476 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 4.229.99.68 |
ML - Please show us these rankings you speak of. |
