  Sharmaal Member Username: Sharmaal Post Number: 552 Registered: 09-2004 Posted From: 136.1.1.154 |
Just so it doesn't get lost in another thread. I'm at work and can't watch it. It doesn't seem to be streaming on WDIV or WXYZ. Anybody see it? I want it to be some monumental moment, but my feeling is that it's a whole lot of hooey for the Superbowl. | ||
Lurker Member Username: Lurker Post Number: 1559 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 65.196.220.198 |
The press releases are on their website: http://www.ilitchholdings.com/ MediaRoom/tabid/52/Default.asp x | ||
Lurker Member Username: Lurker Post Number: 1560 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 65.196.220.198 |
Shorthand version: -Restore tower atop the Fox -Detroit Life Building restoration -Teaming with CoD to co-market the UA building w/ the Statler Hilton site (that's the 5 acres) -conducting feasibility studies for the Fine Arts Building. Don't hold your breath on this one. -244 Madison: blah, blah, asphalt, DHDC, blah, blah | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 454 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 69.246.5.196 |
If this is legitimate, this is the best redevelopment new in a while. | ||
Sharmaal Member Username: Sharmaal Post Number: 553 Registered: 09-2004 Posted From: 136.2.1.103 |
Kraemer Design Group - Ok, Where is that guy to chime in! What's his name - Kdesign? Anyone from Preservation Wayne? Bueler Bueler? | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1451 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.164.127 |
Anyone from pres. wayne able to confirm that the meeting talked about took place on the Fine Arts Building. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6404 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
Do they consider all of their gravel lots in that area as 'bustling'. I'm glad they are making an effort but to claim an interest in the Park Avenue Historic district is a bit far fetched considering the vast number of gravel lots around the area. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1306 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
One block at a time. One street at a time. Gravel lots become a lot more valuable when an adjoining street is no longer nothing but rotting shells. You never know what those lots could become once there are 6-10 business on Park instead of 2. Its a start (albeit a late one). | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6405 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
Fair point. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 827 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.246.13.131 |
Bottom line, they are spending 500K on a sign that they can write off as advertising. Thats it, noting to see here, move along. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 9746 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.228 |
Love'em or hate'em, Detroit would not be where it is today without the Ilitches. | ||
Kraemerdesigngroup Member Username: Kraemerdesigngroup Post Number: 22 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 63.242.134.66 |
Yes, KDG confirms that we are the architects for the building. We have been working for several months on feasibility options. The skinny floor plate (like the Vinton) has many challenges. But what a facade. BK | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 455 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 69.246.5.196 |
Kilpatrick states that they will attempt to market the building for redevelopment, if that is unsuccessful they will demolish it and market UA site itself. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 177 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 69.212.172.128 |
My guess is the press release is screwed up. I doubt that the UA and former Statler sites are going to be marketed together. The Statler is across the street from the UA and the People Mover runs between the two sites. What they probably meant to say is that they will market the UA and the former TULLER site, which are adjacent. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 444 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.42.176.123 |
Nope, they are marketing all three -- UA, Tuller and Statler sites. It would be interesting to see what happens, but I'm not getting my hopes up. The news about the Fox sign and Detroit Life Building are great news though. Any ideas on when construction on the DLB will begin? | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1301 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
Really? How do you explain the line "that is now owned by the city" which follows the words "Statler Hotel site" That's a hell of a typo. | ||
Gwhobbies Member Username: Gwhobbies Post Number: 47 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 66.208.225.165 |
I read the part about the UA differently: "Olympia Development is teaming up with the City of Detroit to co-market the PROPERTY at 150 Bagley, currently the site of the United Artists Building and Theatre, along with the property adjacent that was the former Statler Hotel site that is now owned by the City." To me that sounds like the property is the draw, not the building that currently is "in the way". Or is just me? | ||
Funkycarrie Member Username: Funkycarrie Post Number: 123 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 69.208.32.222 |
"Kilpatrick states that they will attempt to market the building for redevelopment, if that is unsuccessful they will demolish it and market UA site itself." I think thats code for, we're going to let all you people think we're going to actually try and save the building, but it's getting ripped down so get over it. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 828 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.246.13.131 |
Very poorly worded. Are they talking about a parcel next to the Statler site? It seems a few words are missing. (Message edited by Psip on January 12, 2006) | ||
Rust Member Username: Rust Post Number: 71 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 64.118.136.130 |
I am neither a Ilitch fan nor a critic, but let us not diminish what a restored vibrant Detroit Life Building will mean to Park Ave. If this building becomes viable and adds an attraction that complements what is already on Park Ave. I think we will have a strong foundation for the creation of a nightlife district akin to Rush Street in Chicago. With what is happening at Cliff Bell's (is that two bars) along with the Town Pump and Centaur add a restaurant and or a Bar on the first floor of the Detroit Life Building and we will have a real street to bar hop on. We may lament the parking lots at present but they will make it easy in the time being to make this a destination point for a night out. Later on if popularity grows for the district I would expect the gaps to fill. I am more worried about the condition of some of the other buildings on the street and their possiblities of being demolished instead of rehabbed. The Charlevoix looks to be in questionable condition. Let us focus our energy on these buildings before they are torn down to create more parking lots. Does the fellow who owns the Charlevoix have the ability to renovate it? (Message edited by rust on January 12, 2006) | ||
Detourdetroit Member Username: Detourdetroit Post Number: 149 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.213.205.102 |
Atanas Ilitch reached out to Preservation Wayne late last year and has been in conversation since that time. So far, Atanas has appeared open and candid about a desire to do due diligence and find good, creative solutions. Preservation Wayne is certainly supportive about this change in relationship. Getting the Detroit Building back online is great news. The Fine Arts and UA sites are more challenging, but at this moment, it would seem like positive steps are being taken. If today were the first day of the rest of our lives and if these properties were newly plunked down in front of 2211 Woodward Avenue, today's announcement would appear to be wondersful news and the right plan of attack. Of course we all know that there is over a decade of missed opportunity and lots of pain and suffering to go around. We are hopeful and "cautiously optimistic." Happy New Year. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1303 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
I have to be honest, but if the UA building has to come down the get some serious life onto that side of GCP, I think I'd not be too worked up. It is a ghost town over there, and a major development there would not only revive that side of the park, but hopefully help revive the beautiful but empty Washington Blvd. Especially if the Book-Cadillac rehab is completed at the other end. As for the Charlevoix and the Park Ave Building (or whatever it is called, next to Kales) ... I think the issue is that the current owners are of the speculator variety, no? PS - Rust - thanks for using the correct form of "complement." That made my day. | ||
Eap Member Username: Eap Post Number: 1229 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.221.37.80 |
The question is what entity is handling the marketing, negotiations and eventual development agreement for the 5 acre site? Ilitch Holdings? DDA? | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 386 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 172.137.4.21 |
There is a lot of potential here. The outreach to Preservation Wayne is positive and apears to indicate good faith. These redevelopment efforts by the Ilitch organization should have occurrred 5 years ago, but that's water under the bridge. I hope that it isn't all an elaborate ruse to provide a community relations safety net for a new arena/more parking lots scheme. That would be too evil, wouldn't it? Anyway, I hope their announced plans work out. I wish em luck. | ||
Sharmaal Member Username: Sharmaal Post Number: 558 Registered: 09-2004 Posted From: 136.1.1.154 |
http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20060112/NEWS11/ 60112004 From the Freep. No new info in the article, but some cool pictures of the buildings concerned. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 775 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 141.216.1.4 |
Love this pic from the Freep sight.  Triple X movies coming back to the Fox?  http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=C4&Date=20060112&Category=BUSINESS&ArtNo=112001&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=3 (Message edited by gumby on January 12, 2006) | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 9747 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.228 |
Eap, Here ya go, let us know what you find out. Ilitch Holdings http://www.ilitchholdings.com/ MediaRoom/ContactUs/tabid/128/ Default.aspx Detroit Economic Growth Corporation (including DDA) 500 Griswold St., Ste. 2200 Detroit, MI, 48226 Phone 313-963-2940 Fax 313-963-8839 | ||
Eap Member Username: Eap Post Number: 1230 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.221.37.80 |
Poor little feller thinks I asked that question because I want to know the answer... | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 9748 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.228 |
I figured you were being a smartass, but gave you the benefit of a doubt. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6410 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
Detour - Thanks for balancing this (including my venom) with the words about Atanas. It is good to hear that he wants to look at things in a manner that is positive for the city. | ||
Mind_field Member Username: Mind_field Post Number: 459 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 209.240.205.61 |
Went downtown today since it's a mild sunny day and they had a good 2-3 lanes of Woodward closed in front of the Fox hoisting those letters up on the building, neat to watch. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1436 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.212.56.174 |
I was at this morning's press conference as well. I just wanted to echo Detourdetroit's comment about being "cautiosly optimistic." I'm thrilled about the Detroit Life Bldg. being brought back on-line as well as the restored Fox sign tower. I also think that marketing the UA, Tuller and Statler sites together (complete with air rights in between them) is a good idea. I am, however, concerned about how "temporary" the temporary parking lot on the Madison-Lenox site will be. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4637 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.175.233 |
Well, for all the grief we've given the Ilitch family over the years, me especially, I'd like to say that it's good to see them doing something like this. Cautiously optimistic, but still would like to give credit where credit is due. | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 755 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 198.208.159.18 |
i am recklessly optimistic (Message edited by gravitymachine on January 12, 2006) | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6416 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
I am soberly pessimistic. Later I shall be drunkenly optimistic. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 2296 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.202.227.12 |
I am emphatically optimistic... | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1742 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.81.34 |
Yup, this looks like the death knell for the United Artists Theatre and Building. I am sorry to see the building go, but not as sorry as I am to see the theatre go. Theatre historians say that C. Howard Cranes finest theatres were his Fox twins (Detroit and St. Louis), and his 2 United Artists Theatres (Detroit and Los Angeles). All 200 of his other earlier theatres (including the Opera House, State, Orchestra Hall, etc.) were not as exceptional as those he built later for the movie studio chains. I bet architects today cannot recreate a theatre with as wonderful accoustics as those that will be lost with the demise of the UA. There is another thing that bodes badly for Detroit, with the demise of the UA and probably the Adams. The supply of old downtown movie palaces available for conversion to performance venues will be exhausted (except of course for the much smaller National). | ||
Genesyxx Member Username: Genesyxx Post Number: 396 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 209.69.165.10 |
Yawn.... lots of sizzle and no steak. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1437 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.212.56.174 |
Genesyxx: Redeveloping the Detroit Life Bldg. is definately a decent piece of steak. The Fine Arts Bldg. ain't half bad news either. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 2997 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
There is no need for the United Artist Office Building to go, and I hope the Ilitche's air on the side of preservation instead of bringing it down, hoping for better things. My problem is that that site probably won't be able to support anything the size of the office building for quite a few more years. Whatever is built at the Statler and UA site (if it's to be demoed) has to be at least as tall for it to be an equal exchange. I just have a sick feeling that developers aren't currently ready to put anything over 10 or so stories on either site, and that would be a crime. The UA Office Building even more so, can still be made a viable (and modern) office building unlike the Statler which would have taken some very creative reuse ideas to fully reuse. | ||
Huggybear Member Username: Huggybear Post Number: 115 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 192.217.12.254 |
Of course. Because they didn't manage to work with shells at Orchestra Hall and the Opera House. Seriously, though, you've got blueprints. That's all you would ever have to work from if you tried to restore those theaters. The plaster is done for and would have to be torn out. Any reconstruction would be stuck with modern materials and acoustic science. Seems to work fine. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 2998 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
Yeah, the accoustics could certainly be replicated, and with today's technology could actually be made better. It's the looks that are too cost prohibitive to replicate accurately again. It's possible, but not probable at all considering how expensive it would be. | ||
Detourdetroit Member Username: Detourdetroit Post Number: 150 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 152.163.100.195 |
I have optimized my pessimation, er...or maybe I have pessimated my optimism or something like that. It's quite liberating. I encourage everyone to try. | ||
Damon Member Username: Damon Post Number: 642 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 172.139.25.127 |
What has Ilitch been waiting on, a personal invitation? | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1744 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.81.34 |
Lmich, you may be right about today's technology in regards to replicating great accoustics, but it certainly wasn't evident when they built the NYC Lincoln Center, Detroit's Ford Auditorium, and Sydney's Opera House, all 3 of which had significant accoustic problems. In Detroit, the DSO went back to Orchestra Hall, and recently the New York Philharmonic left Lincoln Center's Avery Fisher Hall to go to Carnegie Hall. All because of poor accoustics. The Sydney Opera House has spent millions in trying to cope with the accoustics problem with both the symphonic hall and the opera house. Out of curiosity, can anyone name a modern accoustic marvel of a performing arts center that can match those venues of the first 1/3 of the 20th century? | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1745 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.81.34 |
As far as costs for restoring old plaster goes, Ray Shepherdson, the main consultant for restoring the Detroit Opera House and Fox Theatre.... he stated a few years back that the Michigan Theatre could be restored with $2 million worth of plaster. That may be a lot to you and I, but not in the greater scheme of things for a theatre project. Of course the statement is slightly ambiguous, since it doesn't mention labor costs. | ||
Crew Member Username: Crew Post Number: 797 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 146.9.52.21 |
Thomson Hall in Toronto | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 456 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 69.246.5.196 |
Look what I found http://www.thedetroitlifebuild ing.com/ | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 2999 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
But, for every one modern acoustical disaster, I can name you one historic disaster in acoustics. For instance, the MSU Auditorium is subpar. In fact, it has two, but only one can be used at a time since they are built back to back, and the acoustics in both leave much to be desired, I'm told. On the other hand, the MSU Wharton Center, built quite a few blocks south of it on campus is said to be a very good venue, and a huge improvement over the auditorium. http://www.whartoncenter.com/ | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1746 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.81.34 |
Really? Did they finally get the accoustic kinks out of Thomson Hall? The Encyclopedia of Music In Canada has this to say about Thomson Hall.... ".... modifications and adjustments have been made in the accoustic design as the sound idyosyncracies, inevitable in a new hall have been revealed during actual use..." Sounds almost like trial and error to me. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1747 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.81.34 |
I'm not saying that all old movie palaces were accoustic marvels... Many of the movie palaces by the other great palace architects (Rapp & Rapp, Thomas Lamb and John Eberson) had problems when converted to symphonic or opera use, and required moveable sounding boards, as well as sound baffles in the organ side grills or the ceiling. And of course the larger theatres, such as the Detroit Fox, have poorer accoustics because they are too large. But C. Howard Crane was the movie palace GENIUS, when it came to superb accoustics. The fact that Orchestra Hall and Detroit Opera House required no moveable sounding board, sound redirection, or any type of sound baffles, speaks volumes to his accoustic genius. And those were his earlier theaters (1919 and 1922). By the time he hit his stride in 1928 (when the UA was built), he was at the peak of his mastery. Outside of Europe, I doubt there are many theaters that could outdo the UA in marvelous accoustics. One of the statements attributable to C. Howard Crane was "if it was pleasing to the eye, it will be pleasing to the ear as well". (Message edited by gistok on January 12, 2006) | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1306 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
Frank Gehry's Disney Concert Hall in LA. http://www.archpedia.com/Proje cts-Frank-Gehry_01.html | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1748 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.81.34 |
And did you see the price tag.... $250 Million! The Disney Concert Hall main hall has about 2,273 seats, just 200 more than the 2,070 seat Detroit United Artists. Of course we would have to have a "need" for restoring the UA.... a need that currently doesn't exist. Thanks DH4H, you proved another point I wanted to make. Fixing up Detroit's old theatres like the UA, is like spending "pennies on the dollar" compared to the expense other cities have to go thru, especially like Los Angeles.... spending a quarter of a billion dollars!! I guess great accoustics don't come cheap! (Message edited by gistok on January 12, 2006) | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1309 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
All right Gistok, let's not commit any crimes against logic here. The Disney Concert Hall is expensive, yes, but not just because of the acoustics. It's a Frank Gehry building for Christ's sake. That does not mean every new theater with good acoustics is going to cost that much. Just out of curiosity, what did the UA theater costs to build? | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 832 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.246.13.131 |
Antal Dorati (1977-1981) and the DSO recorded most of their albums at the UA. Simply because of the superb acoustics. Cass Tech was a favorite of Paul Paray (1951-1962). Gumby, please edit that url so the page returns to normal. /hates scrolling across to read (Message edited by Psip on January 12, 2006) | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1749 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.81.34 |
DH4H, I don't know that answer.... lets see, the Fox cost about 4.5 million in 1928, the Capitol about 2.25 million in 1922. So that gives you an idea. I'd guess about 1.75 million (without the office building). One other point, good accoustics happen when the sound gets diffused throughout an auditorium. Old movie palaces and historic opera houses are covered with cherubim, putti and other bric-a-brac that cause this diffusion, and give great accoustics. The modern styles of performing arts centers are much plainer on the inside. And that probably goes against having great accoustics, making it a greater challenge for architects to compensate for the missing ornate plasterwork common to performance centers of the past. That's just a guess on my part. | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 756 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 68.255.242.100 |
taken on the way down to the autoshow this evening. the FOX sign, as mentioned in the press confrence appears to be done already, save for the star, and there are lights(!) shining on the UA and the promtional banners adorning it detroit life and fox sign (outposts amongst a see of parking lots lol)  fox sign done  lights on the UA  (Message edited by gravitymachine on January 12, 2006) (Message edited by gravitymachine on January 12, 2006) | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3001 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
Thanks for the photos, Gravity! I can't wait until they light the signage atop the Fox Tower. It's little things like this that add character to a city. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 814 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.122.204 |
Any word on plans for the Blenheim? Didn't see it mentioned, but I have missed that. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 178 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 68.41.162.189 |
There is little or no chance the UA will be renovated. The cost per sq ft would be far higher (even after they tap our wallets for tax dollars) and the market for office space so poor that it is not remotely financially justifiable to think about it. I'm told that the City (DEGC) doesn't own the entire S-H site and it will be extremely difficult to market it until it does. I've heard they'll never be able to aquire the entire site. | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2623 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.215.243.150 |
Your info about the Statler ownership needs careful clarification. The city owns the land the Statler sat on. There are some other parcels bounded by Park, Washington Blvd, Bagley and Clifford that the city does not own, though. Think of it like a pie sliced into four pieces. The entire pie represents the triangular piece of land bounded by Park, Washington, Bagley & Clifford. One of the slices is the Statler's land. The city owns that. The other pieces of the pie are not city-owned. (Analogy driven by helping my second-grader learn fractions. My apologies.) | ||
Busterwmu Member Username: Busterwmu Post Number: 190 Registered: 09-2004 Posted From: 24.247.221.241 |
Wow, thanks for the photos. I have often wondered during my younger days what the tower on top was for, and now it all makes sense. Once it lights up, it will look fantastic. The Detroit Life Building is a really neat little tower in an area I have not explored extensively, and I'm glad it is on the redevelopment list. As for the UA, I'm cautiously optomistic, but it sure does look good with the lights and banner on it. Now if only they had saved some of those letters from the Marquee. They could go into storage with the General Motors ones from their old HQ! :-P | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3002 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
3rdworld, while the UA may be hard to justify renovating, it is MUCH easier than the nearly impossible job of fully reusing the Statler. It requires much less creativity, and actually served as a rather successful office building up until relatively recently. What is going to kill it more so than anything else is not the cost, but the fact that office space won't be in high demand for some time into the forseeable future, and a condo development is nearly out of the question as it would probably oversaturate the market. They could try for a true mixed use development, half offices/half residential with ground floor retail, though. But I agree, it has more working against it than for it. I'd just really hate to see this relatively sound and still useful structure come down exaggerating the gap on surface park created first by the Tuller than then by the Statler. It would totally help to kill any chances of adequately filling up that area, again. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 2171 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.167.58.137 |
Sorry y'all but I think this is great news. Love or hate them, they were the first money to emphatically commit to a then abandoned downtown. Now it is great to see them continue that commitment, mend fences and get back to work. Bravo! I have little doubt they will carry out what they say. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 369 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.10.63.140 |
This is great. The FOX sign looks fantastic! If this were any other developer besides Illitch, everyone would be ecstatic! If you read the Detroit Facts or something on the Illitch Holdings site it mentions that he payed $70 MILLION in taxes to the city last year alone... | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3003 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
Of course everyone would be estatic. The Ilitch's are easily downtown's largest slumlord. It's definitely good news, but they've earned their reputation, both good and bad, and must take it as it is. I don't know where they (and their supporters) get aways with trying to say that the Ilitch's should be immune to any criticism. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 371 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.10.63.140 |
No not at all. Criticism is fine, especially on his other properties. But I dont understand the ciritcism for these projects announced or what he has done for the city...Do I like his policies? NO. But I can help but like that he... employs 11,000 including 3,600 Detroiters Brought Comerica Park Downtown Owns 31 Little Ceasars in the city Renovated the Fox Hockeytown Cafe Success with the Wings, etc etc.... Cant argue over those achievements like many do. Criticize the fact that he still owns other properties with no plans for them, Yes. | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 354 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.40.89.238 |
Their not perfect, but the Ilitches have invested quite a bit | ||
Detroitwonk Member Username: Detroitwonk Post Number: 92 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 69.89.100.18 |
When was the last time the FOX tower was lit? | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1399 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.212.58.46 |
I'm a little disappointed with the news. I was hoping that the news conference would be about building a new hockey arena behind the Fox Theater. An arena just west of Park Avenue along with the development of the permanent MGM Grand casino, would really do wonders for this side of downtown. As long as an arena doesn't cut off Adams and Cass, it would beat having all of those surface parking lots. Also, kudos to saving and redeveloping the Detroit Building. It is the neatest, narrowest building I have ever seen. What are the plans for redevelopment, however, condos or office space? BTW, I have said this before, but has anyone noticed how well-lit Park Avenue is? Perhaps it's the narrowness of the street or because it has my favorite of all streetlights( the beige-white lights as opposed to the bluish-white lights), Park, despite its desolation, has a great feel to it. I hope if there is a new arena ever built in the area that they don't put it right up along Park. Also, with the Centaur, Detroit Building, the Kales, and Cliff Bells Bar bringing life back to Park Avenue, it's too bad that the city decided to remove the freeway overpass on Park. With the Eddystone and the Harbor Light buildings being converted into condos, the Park Avenue overpass would have made Park Avenue a walkable street and would have done wonders in connecting Foxtown to the rest of Cass Corridor( Midtown). (Message edited by royce on January 13, 2006) | ||
Dnvn522 Member Username: Dnvn522 Post Number: 86 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 204.24.64.25 |
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Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 816 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.222.11.226 |
Asking one more time... is the Blenheim toast? | ||
Urban_shocker Member Username: Urban_shocker Post Number: 246 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 63.85.13.248 |
Ask later, action is pending final approval of a feline relocation plan. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 179 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 69.212.172.128 |
Ham_Steve: The City owns the entire S-H block except the one parcel occupied by the 5 story building on Bagley the demo contractor caught on fire. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1342 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
I could agree more Royce...but actually I bet that MDOT removed the overpass. I doubt the city had much to do with it. | ||
Dnvn522 Member Username: Dnvn522 Post Number: 87 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 204.24.64.25 |
Probably so, but I'm positive that MDOT didn't remove that bridge without approval from the city. | ||
Dnvn522 Member Username: Dnvn522 Post Number: 88 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 204.24.64.25 |
And I think we could make this work!  That's a joke in case you can't tell. | ||
Crew Member Username: Crew Post Number: 798 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 146.9.52.21 |
a replacement hockey area would be much better a bit to the West facing Grand River....the the old Olympia. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 836 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.246.13.131 |
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Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 459 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 69.246.5.196 |
It's amazing it took the guy so long to realize that developing his properties would compliment Foxtown, but I'm glad he finally did.
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20060113/BIZ/6 01130398 | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6440 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
Gotta like Colin Hubbell's quote. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2150 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.233.3.21 |
Well it's not like he just appeared out of the blue for the article, Hubbell is a big KK backer and the reporter was directed to him by KK's press secretary. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6441 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
No doubt but I liked it all the same. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2151 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.233.3.21 |
Agreed. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1750 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.6.230 |
What's this about them having their own people mover stop? The closest stops are GCP over by Woodward (Whitney Building), and Times Square at Grand River & Times Sq. It would be nice for them to create a Bagley Ave. Station between the UA and Statler site. From Bagley Ave. it's nearly 2 blocks to either of the other stations. | ||
Dnvn522 Member Username: Dnvn522 Post Number: 89 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 204.24.64.25 |
They could put the stop right in the new hockey arena. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1751 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.105.145 |
There's no way they can put a new hockey arena on those 2 blocks.... 1) it would block Bagley, a major route for entering/exiting downtown from the Lodge Fwy. 2) I seriously doubt they could move the People Mover without major expense. And I don't think that people mover columns would look good near the blue lines on the ice. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1438 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.213.204.119 |
From the article and yesterday's press conference: Chris Ilitch calls Kilpatrick "a bold leader with boundless vision and great energy." And his reason for not putting that vision and energy to work in improving police services is what again??? Sorry, I digress. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1344 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
In that regard, I sincerly hope that Bagely is not blocked off with some huge building. It very well may make since to put a PM stop there, and have walkways to buildings on either side. But other than that, the air above the public ROW on such a major thouroughfair should remain open. We've seen great photos of what it used to look like, maybe some of that feeling can be returned in the future. | ||
Busterwmu Member Username: Busterwmu Post Number: 192 Registered: 09-2004 Posted From: 24.247.221.241 |
That is a point that has always surprised me. It amazes me how often I'm driving around the city, particulaly the SW side, and all of a sudden I come to some industry which has pretty much taken over a stretch of road and fenced it off. I wonder why the city gives permission for industrial and non industrial uses to do that. Seems to be more of a headache than anything and I have to weave my way around more blocks to get a block away from where I started. To keep this mostly on topic, it would be cool if they had a bridge like good old downtown Crowley's did back in the day to connect the two sides over Bagley. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1439 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.213.204.119 |
From what I heard at the press conference, they were only offering the air rights - that is the ability to build some type of a connector that would stretch over Bagley; not a right-of-way that would enable a developer to block-off the street. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1441 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.213.204.119 |
Agreed, my bet is that the new hockey arena will start where former Motown HQ was and go north from there. The area is largely desolate now and blocking streets won't be as big of an issue. | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 420 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 68.250.175.117 |
HHmmm... not sure I want a hockey arena across the street... although, could make for some kickin' foot traffic. If the arena was made in an urban feel, like Comerica Park... where there are main floor Restaurants and bars which can be open on other nights as well... then THAT would be kickin'.... and a great addition to the neighborhood. Just don't park on my street. hahahaha.. yea, right. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 373 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.10.63.140 |
Kwame said there was still hope that the Motown lot would become a Motown Museum in the future as well | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3009 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
It would be great to see a modern take on the Olympia if they do end up building the arena in the area. I love the old barn-style of architecture used for old arenas (i.e. Jenison Fieldhouse and MSU Auditorium, Yost Arena...) | ||
Wmuchris Member Username: Wmuchris Post Number: 123 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.51.137.10 |
So I called the number on the side of the Fine Arts Building. 313-983-6200 to find out what I could about the possible project. Left a message with an Olympia Development secretary saying that I would be interested in living in said building. 20 minutes later I get a call from Atanas Ilitch. Asking me what I would like to see in the building. No Joke I told him a phat apartment would be nice. I'd move in in a heartbeat. He said that lots of restaraunts had been calling and were interested in the announced properties. He said that the phone had basically been ringing off the hook and he was making personal attempts to get back in touch with everybody that called. Sounds to me like a serious businessman. Sounds like he wants to get this thing a rollin. I admit, I'm excited. Do it.. Do it... | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1347 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.212.226.203 |
That is what I meant when I said blocked off. I don't think they can conceivably block the street, it is the main way to get to the Lodge. But I think putting a building over a street (ala the Millender center) is a horrible idea. Bagley is a significant source of afternoon sun for GCP. It is also a view into and out of it. Put a pedestrian overpass, probably a DPM station, but other than that, make it a nice streetscape like the other main roads radiating from the south half of GCP. I don't want downtowns streets to be like dungeons. If the developer of the properties cares about the long-term, they won't either. | ||
Alexei289 Member Username: Alexei289 Post Number: 992 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.61.183.223 |
... Your talking about Detroit... Long term is <10years. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1752 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.105.95 |
Wow Wmuchris, that's great! I hope in the future we can add Atanas Ilitch to the likes of Chuck Forbes and Dr. David DiChiera, as patron saints of Detroit Historic Preservation! It may be daddy's money, but it looks like his vision. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1350 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.212.226.203 |
And look where Michigan is today.... I honestly don't see how it gets you anything as a developer. You end up with less windows and more expense to span a building that distance. You get more square feet, but going taller gets you that too. I can't imagine that spanning space with a building is much cheaper than going taller. The city doesn't have to give up its right of way everytime somebody says please. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1753 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.105.95 |
Also, remember that for office or residential, you can realistically be only so far from a window. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3011 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
Actually, that's only for residential, really. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1468 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.255.166.225 |
For what it's worth, the National Trust for Historic Preservation and the Michigan Historic Preservation issued this statement about last week's press conference yesterday. http://fobc.igorfilms.com/resp onse.ilitch.proposals.pdf | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3051 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
Still caught up on the M-L, I see. I'm surprised at how up-beat most of it was considering that the reuse of the UA and Fine Arts seem slim at best. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1471 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.215.247.150 |
I wouldn't be so quick to discount the Fine Arts Bldg. I spoke with the architect who is doing the feasibility study. There are some distinct challenges caused by a) neglect of the building for year and b) Louis Kampers experimentation with steel beams for the vertical supports and wooden beams for the horizonal supports. (Wood doesn't withstand water damage as well as steel). With all of that said, the odds are slightly better than 50/50 that we'll see the building reused. |
