Discuss Detroit » NON-DETROIT ISSUES » A.I.G. to Pay $100 Million in Bonuses After Huge Bailout « Previous Next »
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Rb336
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Post Number: 8723
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

""I agreed reluctantly," Dodd said. "I was changing the amendment because others were insistent."

compromise, i'd like to see what he got in the package in return. the language that was removed was written by Dodd, and it was largely reps and blue dogs who refused to go forward with that language in the amendment
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Ccbatson
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Horse manure...the guy decided to put it in their, he should be held accountable. No Obama like cop outs Dodd.
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Mayor_sekou
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It smells fishy, you conveniently remove language that would have removed the ability for top executives, of a company you receive substantial campaign contributions from, to receive bonuses? The same bonuses which it doesn't take a genius to figure would cause outrage seeing as how it was all the rage back during the campaign. Sounds like he got caught with his pants down to me.

(Message edited by Mayor sekou on March 19, 2009)
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Ccbatson
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 3:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do ya think?

The language of your criticism is conciliatory...as if it would have been OK if he had not gotten caught. What are the standards being used?
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Rb336
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 4:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

it was language dodd put in as an amendment that he later agreed to remove. he didn't "get caught" at anything
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Ccbatson
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was referring to Mayor's language, not Dodd's.

I saw an interview with Dodd. He was definitely caught and he regrets it (being caught, not the initial wrongdoing). His excuse (lame) was that this is how laws get passed. Oops, if these kind of mistakes become law as a result, better to give it up all together.
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Danindc
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 4:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

it was language dodd put in as an amendment that he later agreed to remove. he didn't "get caught" at anything



You didn't hear? Since 2001, it's been criminal to be a Democrat.
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Detroitnerd
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 4:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

CC Batson: Just curious. Here is a statement about unions. Is this too left-wing for your politics?

"[Trade unions] are among the most important institutions of the nation's economic life. Their significance lies not only in the social and political field, but even more in the general field of national politics. A people whose broad masses, through a sound trade-union movement, obtain the satisfaction of their living requirements and at the same time an education, will be tremendously strengthened in its power of resistance in the struggle for existence."
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Ccbatson
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 4:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A qualified yes...I am sure you will point out that a conservative made the statement, however, plenty of supposed conservatives hold liberal beliefs in some corners (GWB as one example). Or, it was a statement to placate a voting base.
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Detroitnerd
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Heh. Thought so. Yeah, of course, it's Adolf Hitler in Mein Kampf. Just figured it would be an amusing break from the usual ragging. :-)
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Ccbatson
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 4:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You do know what "qualified" means, right Detroitnerd?

As I have pointed out before, great villains of history may have isolated valid views on some points (not in this case, but...) but are evil on balance.

Besides, what makes you think that Hitler was a conservative? A Fascist genocidal dictator leading a nationalist "socialist" party, is closer to a liberal (by todays standards in the US), then a conservative.
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Detroitnerd
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 4:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Haha. Whatever. I thought it was a harmless gag, but I think the wingnut doth protest too much. :-)
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Ccbatson
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 4:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Whatever" means that you admit defeat? If so, granted.
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Detroitnerd
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 4:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No, "whatever" means "smell my feet." :-)
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Rb336
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 4:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bats, you will never learn. no matter how much you gripe about it, fascism is the EXTREME of the conservative movement. the first groups EVERY fascist has gone after were the trade unionists, then gays, then some ethnic group. on the other hand, they give over control of many aspects of government to private industry (why il duce called it "corporatist") gee, that does sound an awful lot like the republican tactics from 1980-2008
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Oladub
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 5:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The most elemental version of fascism is economic fascism. It precedes more repugnant variations. Hayek explained that the repression and censorship of more mature fascist states are a result of trying to cover up failures of the government planning associated with fascism. Econonic fascism = corporatism is a collusion of big business and big business scratching each other's backs at the expense of everyone else. Unions, are allowed to exist under corporatism and sometimes even encouraged under corporatism whether Mussolini, Hitler, or the much milder Roosevelt version. That way, the government gets all the big shots to the table at once and everyone is on the same page. Anyone not represented at the table can hope for the scraps.

Its too bad. We had this hilarious situation where everyone was lambasting the evil AIG executives for their greed... until it was realized that AIG had also provided lovely gifts for Obama and Dodd and that Dodd had somehow allowed the AIG executives to get their bonuses. Oops. So then the conversation channel was switched to berating fascism.
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20043_stotter
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 5:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ollie, I guess nobody gets to win, in this political world we live in.
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Oladub
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 7:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

stotter, sigh...The irony is that the bailouts, particularly Bush's, were by definition corporatism every step of the way, aka 'economic fascism', on steroids.

(Message edited by oladub on March 19, 2009)
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Flanders_field
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 9:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Almost half of House Republicans vote to pass a bill taxing AIG exective bonuses:

"WASHINGTON (AP) Spurred on by a tidal wave of public anger over bonuses paid to executives of the foundering American International Group, the House voted 328 to 93 on Thursday to get back most of the money by levying a 90 percent tax on it."

"The measure easily surpassed a procedural hurdle requiring a two-thirds majority vote, thanks to considerable Republican support. The Senate will consider a roughly similar measure, perhaps next week. If something is approved in that chamber the House and Senate versions would have to be reconciled, so prospects for final passage of a bill are unclear."

"But there was no doubt after the House vote that the lawmakers were keenly aware of their constituents anger, which was focused on A.I.G., although the House measure would apply to executives of any company getting more than $5 billion in federal bailout money."

House Passes Heavy Tax on Bonuses at Rescued Firms

FINAL VOTE RESULTS FOR ROLL CALL 143

Regardless of the circumstances, 85 Republican members in Congress, have voted "yes" for one of the highest marginal tax rates imposed on a segment of income earners in decades.





But ultimately the joke is on US taxpayers, who will foot the bill for this travesty alone, not counting the WOT and the stimulus(es) for years and years to come, that is, if there will be enough remaining gainfully employed middle-class taxpayers, whose jobs or small businesses haven't been taken over, eliminated, offshored, or outsourced by the middle of the century.

Maybe by then, most of the "middle-class" employees will be working for the government, or enlisted in the military, since they are about one of the last career employment opportunities available in the US, that the global corporate capitalists haven't (as yet) been able to find a convincingly suitable and profitable means to ship most of those jobs out of the country as well, or failing that, successfully attempt to reduce them to mere "globally competitive" survival wages.

Snip from the article in the NYT:

"Bank executives, who requested anonymity because they did not want to further alienate lawmakers, said their employees were on edge and many would face severe financial hardship if they were severely taxed on money already paid."

Severe financial hardship??

What, are their new Rolls Royces or Bentleys now in danger of being repoed?



(Message edited by Flanders_field on March 19, 2009)
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Oladub
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 10:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Exactly Rb, What a bunch of grandstanding clowns, Republican or otherwise. I figured it out. This AIG corporate excess of $100M costs the average American 33 cents.

MEANWHILE

In the last five days, the Federal Reserve has instituted a policy that has devalued the dollar 5.1% Yet no one is complaining about that. That means our earnings or total personal assets is now worth 5.1% less. Expect gasoline to go up in price along with a hundred things in the grocery store, and almost everything at Walmart. The corporate lap dog media has done a wonderful job of diverting our attention from something that has cost us thousands of dollars. The Federal Reserve does what it wants and Congress refuses to even regulate let alone eliminate it.

"The Fed's decision to buy debt means it is effectively creating new money, leading to concern from investors about the over-supply of dollars." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/bus iness/7952319.stm
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Bigb23
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Expect gasoline to go up in price along with a hundred things in the grocery store, and almost everything at Walmart.



Has that stopped them in the past, without any reasonable explanation, in the last ten years ? Oh sure, you can pour through corporate tables in the proxy statements, but after Enron, AIG, Exxon, Bank of America, and several dozen others, I personally trust them as much as I do a (hard on), vitamin distributer.
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Oladub
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 11:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bigb23, My point was that your money now will have 5.1% less spending power because of a Federal Reserve action - other factors being equal. Congress has allowed the Fed, an independent cabal of private banks, to control the monetary life of this country. No one is asking you to trust corporations except the people you elect to give these corporations our tax money while simultaneously taking away the value of our assets.
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Bigb23
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I totally understand, Oladub. But when you think things are always out of our hands, some idiots make death threats to AIG upper management. Keeps them on their toes.

Those Cristal champaign trysts in the company Jaccuzzi, may be a thing of the past.
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Mayor_sekou
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Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 9:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nothing conciliatory here Cc. Errant assumptions tend to make one look foolish.
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Ccbatson
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Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 6:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So you believe Dodd should be removed from office ASAP?

Careful Mayor, therein lies the test of your conviction.
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Danny
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Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 6:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

GREED is good! GREED is right. The Gordon Gekko phrase.
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Oladub
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Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 9:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rolling Stone Magazine has a lengthy article about AIG and the corporate takeover of our two party system.

"People are pissed off about this financial crisis, and about this bailout, but they're not pissed off enough. The reality is that the worldwide economic meltdown and the bailout that followed were together a kind of revolution, a coup d'état. They cemented and formalized a political trend that has been snowballing for decades: the gradual takeover of the government by a small class of connected insiders, who used money to control elections, buy influence and systematically weaken financial regulations."

http://www.rollingstone.com/po litics/story/26793903/the_big_ takeover/1
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Bigb23
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Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Funny ? But I lost my (reduced) wage job through a Goldman Sachs buyout, two years ago. I hope those guys choke on their Cristal Champaign and illegal nannys.

"Is AIG the Fall Guy For Goldman Sachs?"

quote:

In a famous scene from a Pink Panther movie, Inspector Clouseau arrests a street vendor in front of a bank but ignores a robbery taking place inside. Quite reminiscent of the noise coming out of Congress over the $165 million in bonuses going to American International Group’s credit default swaps unit. The hoopla is obscuring an even nastier nest of snakes: the billions that were funneled through the insurer to prop up the investment banks.



http://industry.bnet.com/finan cial-services/1000576/is-aig-t he-fall-guy-for-goldman-sachs/
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Jams
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Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I fu^ked up at my job this past week, I'll expect a large bonus in my paycheck next week.
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Flanders_field
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Posted on Saturday, March 21, 2009 - 10:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oopsy...a slight bonus miscalculation, but what's another $53 million, when the words billion and trillion get casually mentioned so much in the media.

"NEW HAVEN, Connecticut - Connecticut's attorney general says documents turned over to his office by American International Group Inc. shows the company paid out $218 million in bonuses, higher than the $165 million previously disclosed."

"Attorney General Richard Blumenthal's office received the documents late Friday after issuing a subpoena."

AIG bonuses bigger than believed
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Ccbatson
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Posted on Saturday, March 21, 2009 - 11:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny...That movie (Wall Street) was fictional and written by a liberal...you realize that, don't you?
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Rb336
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Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 8:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

and yet it embodies all that you stand for, bats, and shows the corrupt nature at the root of it
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Danny
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Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 8:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes Ccbatson,

That Wall Street movie was a liberal reponse not only to a quick recession after the 1987 crash, but also to conservative corporations who use the power of GREED to full their needs.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

As I watch the collapse of corporate America.
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Ccbatson
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Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The collapse of corporate America ongoing today is the result of creeping, now leaping Socialism.
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Rb336
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Posted on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 - 8:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bats, your constant jumps in illogic are endlessly amusing
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Ccbatson
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Posted on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 - 5:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another in a long line of conclusions without a shred of supportive argument Rb....irrelevancy is in the near future for you.
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Rb336
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Posted on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 - 9:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the evidence is in your posts, bats, there for everyone to see
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Bigb23
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Posted on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 - 12:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

without a shred of supportive argument Rb



Has ANYBODY seen Cc provide a direct link supporting his argument for review and discussion ?

Just wondering.
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Detroitnerd
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Posted on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 - 1:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know you are but what am I? ;)
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Jams
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Posted on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Has ANYBODY seen Cc provide a direct link supporting his argument for review and discussion ?

Just wondering.



No ,we all stand in awe of his Rightness of Opinion and Compelling Arguments

If we could put his posts in our yards, we would never have to buy fertilizer again.
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Ccbatson
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Posted on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is this a court of law, or a discussion forum? It isn't about evidence, it is about compelling arguments, rational thoughts, deduction, etc.

(Message edited by ccbatson on March 25, 2009)
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Bigb23
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Posted on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, my dear Cc, It's a proven fact that this is a court of law, and it's not about compelling arguments, and rational thoughts. So again, your statement holds no water.
Try again.

(Sarcasm alert).
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Rb336
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Posted on Thursday, March 26, 2009 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bats, that is just the point. you state things vehemently, and I have no doubt you believe them, but vehemence is not compelling, and being argumentative isn't making an argument. you claim rationality, but your rational never bears you out -- things are only rational if they fit inside your extremely narrow, extremely subjective "objectivist" view of the universe, a view that is almost as intellectually compelling as that of the flat earthers
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Ccbatson
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Posted on Thursday, March 26, 2009 - 5:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One example would be nice...for me that is. You would just be embarrassed (maybe that is why you ignore the challenges ).
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Rb336
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Posted on Friday, March 27, 2009 - 8:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

tell you what bats, YOU provide an example to support ANYTHING you have ever posted, then you can make comments like the above

as to my 8768, your posts are all the examples I need to prove my case that you have yet to make any compelling arguments about anything
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Ccbatson
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Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 4:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Deal. next time we cross swords, I will reference this/your challenge.

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