  Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5438 Registered: 06-2004 |
So, Penelope, you're saying that that much of SW Detroit is illegal? Sorry, but no matter what the argument is I'll not support people here illegally, no matter their color, place of origin, or relatives in high places. Most migrant workers I've met aren't illegal aliens. | ||
Thames Member Username: Thames Post Number: 433 Registered: 02-2007 |
Illegal immigration affects everyone. There is a process to follow for a reason, and it's not to be mean or racist. One process before you can even try to immigrate, is you have to pass a physical. People with HIV or TB or other contagious diseases are barred from entry. The idea is that they are trying to protect the rest of the population from an epidemic. At the very least if someone is sick, they can be identified and quarantined until healthy (presuming they can be cured)to keep them from spreading disease. The Carolinas are having a huge problem with a drug resistant TB. The "hot spots" are around poultry processing plants where illegals are working. It is putting a strain on their health care system and putting the rest of the population at risk. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 535 Registered: 10-2006 |
Thames, the physical is not the main issue. Mexico has a lower HIV rate than the U.S. The reason "they" aren't immigrating legally is because they cannot meet the requirements (see my previous post). | ||
Wally Member Username: Wally Post Number: 608 Registered: 12-2003 |
^ No reason or excuse to break our laws. | ||
Zrx_doug Member Username: Zrx_doug Post Number: 922 Registered: 03-2008 |
"Yes, look at Canada, which has the highest immigration rate in the world." Actually the USA has the highest legal immigration rate in the world. For instance, In 2007, Canada received 236,760 immigrants, while 1,266,264 immigrants became American citizens in the same period. FWIW, you might want to rethink emigrating to Canada if you feel that it's difficult to do it here. If you don't have family who are already Canadian, or don't qualify for "refugee" status, their standards are somewhat more strict than ours. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 536 Registered: 10-2006 |
Lilpup, yes, there are lots of undocumented folks in S.W. Detroit. I do not encourage illegal immigration, but I understand the complexity of the situation, and can understand why someone makes such a decision. It isn't as simple as telling people to follow the proper channels. They cannot meet the requirements. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 2543 Registered: 08-2007 |
Crawford are you suggesting that public health reporting in Mexico is on par with the US? Reported cases are not the same as actual cases of infection; that goes for all illnesses, not just HIV. | ||
Yupislyr Member Username: Yupislyr Post Number: 238 Registered: 07-2004 |
Not to mention, it looks like Canada MIGHT soon actually start enforcing the rules already on the books that state you actually have to be able to speak English or French to immigrate here. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 537 Registered: 10-2006 |
I understand that public health reporting is much worse in Mexico than in the U.S., but there are international organizations that make nation-specific estimates of HIV infections, and Mexico ranks much better than the U.S. in these comparative estimates. Latinos in the U.S. do not have particularly high rates of HIV. In the U.S., blacks (most of them straight) make up about 60% of new HIV cases, and most of the remainder are white and Latin gay men. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4587 Registered: 02-2004 |
Now America is closing the GOLDEN DOOR on the illegal immgrants. Illegal immgrants are still coming the US of A. It doesn't matter what government policies that could have in store for what you all claiming illegals as FOREIGN INVADERS! | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 538 Registered: 10-2006 |
Ummm, Canada has in fact the highest immigration RATE in the world, which your numbers just confirmed. You do realize that the U.S. has ten times Canada's population, right? | ||
Bobl Member Username: Bobl Post Number: 689 Registered: 07-2008 |
An acquaintance closed his roofing business a few years back. He refused to break the law and hire employees "off the books" (cash), then could not compete with the wages that his competitors paid illegals. Twenty years in the business. | ||
Thames Member Username: Thames Post Number: 434 Registered: 02-2007 |
"The reason "they" aren't immigrating legally is because they cannot meet the requirements (see my previous post)." As I said, the requirements are put in place for a reason and they are not unique to Mexicans. My spouse emigrated from Canada. Had to have a physical which included a chest x-ray and a blood draw. The physical was not covered by OHIP or any insurance plan. Out of pocket expense. Had to go to the US embassy nearest the port of entry, which was Toronto. Had to have a 10 year sponsor. Had to pay all the application fees and processing fees. Had to have assets. All the same requirements you speak of. Mexico doesn't tolerate illegal aliens. They boot them if they catch them. You won't see illegal aliens in Mexico marching through the streets demanding rights. I empathize with their plight, but the US shouldn't be seen as villainous for expecting our laws to be followed and if some sort of amnesty is issued to illegals, then we want our money back. | ||
Young_detroiter Member Username: Young_detroiter Post Number: 80 Registered: 08-2004 |
“They have no other option,” but to break the law? This nation was founded by “illegal” immigrants, but that was centuries ago. Since that time when the indigenous (natives) were viciously displaced, we have created a strong democratic government, which strives for equality. Supporting, encouraging, and rewarding illegal behavior only weakens our foundation and undermines our principles. How can a person become a naturalized citizen and claim to uphold the laws of the land, if they cannot respect migrating in a legal fashion? Yes, the process is costly and lengthy with many spending thousands and waiting up to a decade for naturalization, but it is done orderly. Receiving citizenship should not be a simple as crossing a river, desert, etc., and then demanding rights – citing the Constitution. The immigration process needs improvement, as I have seen it firsthand within my family, but it should not be made a mockery by this lawlessness. Many undocumented immigrants are treated as the lowest of our society and may face similar hardships as within their native land, but they do it for the money. They come with hopes that are sold to them in their lands, but arrive and often find something much different. The undocumented immigrants say, “We do the work that Americans won’t do.” Well, maybe my fellow hungry and unemployed Americans would do the work, if they were given the opportunity. You must take care of yourself and your own before you can save the world. My stance has nothing to with xenophobia or Mexicans. Not all immigrants are Mexican or Latin American. I lived in Mexico and I went through a similar expensive and long-lasting procedure just to secure a Mexican FM3 (residency) visa. Personally, I would like to see more immigrants in Detroit, particularly a growing Latino community. However, they should be documented immigrants (i.e. legal residents, etc.). Nevertheless, this begs the question of what happens with the millions of undocumented residents in this nation? Millions of people cannot be deported and ripped away from their American-born children. Neither can millions remain under the radar enduring deplorable working conditions. So, there should be a road to citizenship for those that are already here and established, but a quick, sweeping amnesty for all should not be granted. | ||
Retroit Member Username: Retroit Post Number: 1066 Registered: 04-2008 |
Zrx_doug, I agree with you and I support your efforts. And, I think you identified the real cause of the problem: Socialized Welfare. Unfortunately, you're facing an uphill battle against the Libs. Additionally, in 1982, the U.S. Supreme Court said that illegal immigrants are entitled to the same benefits as citizens (Plyler vs. Doe). Good Luck. | ||
Zrx_doug Member Username: Zrx_doug Post Number: 929 Registered: 03-2008 |
You guys are gonna make me protest by myself, aren't ya? Quislings.  | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5448 Registered: 06-2004 |
With any kind of luck you might be joined by ICE agents. | ||
Cheddar_bob Member Username: Cheddar_bob Post Number: 1921 Registered: 10-2003 |
I'll catch a ride there with you. You can drop me off at the meeting so I can listen to realistic solutions to the problems surrounding comprehensive immigration reform. You can stand outside and bitch about the problem. It sounds like zrxdoug is under the false impression that undocumented workers get a free ride on the backs of taxpayers, but that is generally not the case. The "parasites" as you call them pay plenty of taxes, a lot of the time without any of the benefit. | ||
Hpgrmln Member Username: Hpgrmln Post Number: 686 Registered: 06-2007 |
Doug, dont worry about it. Theres such high unemployment and such a bad economy right now immigrants soon wont have any reason to enter. Their opportunities wont be better than ours, and as a newly laid-off worker, I can tell you how bleak things are, in Michigan anyway. I wanted to immigrate to Costa Rica and see if I could get government funding to start up a buisness, but theyre cracking down on us gringos setting up shop. Reading about the difficulties of immigration was a wake-up call. Our economy is bad enough we might not need immigration reform. We can't even offer opportunities to citizens, so maybe illegals wont even bother trying to come over. | ||
Zrx_doug Member Username: Zrx_doug Post Number: 931 Registered: 03-2008 |
Ummm, Canada has in fact the highest immigration RATE in the world, which your numbers just confirmed. You do realize that the U.S. has ten times Canada's population, right? Your point being? Are we to assume that because of this disparity in population density, America also has ten times the jobs to throw away, ten times the benefits to give away, and ten times the spare law enforcement personnel to ride herd on illegals? Seems to me that the only point you're making is that Canada has got more unoccupied land mass than America. By the way..someone mentioned that illegals pay fuel taxes. On what? The unregistered, unlicensed, uninsured car they must be driving without a valid operator's license? No burden on the law abiding citizen there, huh? | ||
Zrx_doug Member Username: Zrx_doug Post Number: 933 Registered: 03-2008 |
You can drop me off at the meeting so I can listen to realistic solutions to the problems surrounding comprehensive immigration reform. No reform is needed, CB..just enforce the damned laws that are already on the books and leave the bleeding hearts club behavior to charitable institutions rather than US taxpayers. | ||
Cheddar_bob Member Username: Cheddar_bob Post Number: 1922 Registered: 10-2003 |
You act like the laws are not enforced. They are. In Imlay City several border patrol units patrol the streets. If they see someone that looks hispanic they ask for their papers and are deported if they cannot do so. Sounds like enforcement to me. What kind of enforcement of the law are you suggesting, exactly? | ||
Retroit Member Username: Retroit Post Number: 1073 Registered: 04-2008 |
The problem with protesting this issue is that, no matter how hard you try, people will see your protest as being anti-Mexican, when really you are against the Liberals in government who trade government "freebies" in exchange for votes. The protest should be against Socialized Welfare. I'm more upset about citizens depending on the government to take care of them than I am about an illegal immigrant that wants to work hard to provide for himself and his family and is willing to pay taxes for the opportunity to live here (if only his employer would withhold taxes from his paycheck - LOL). (Message edited by Retroit on March 27, 2009) | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3750 Registered: 07-2004 |
Doug and people like him don't really understand that illegal immigrants don't get a "free ride" and aren't "parasites." They work harder for fewer of the benefits and risk being deported every day, sometimes because this is the only way they can take care of their families, who are often back home. Furthermore, if we don't want Mexican immigrants in this country (a debatable point), maybe we shouldn't have flooded the Mexican market with cheap, subsidized American corn, effectively destroying small-scale Mexican agriculture. With no way to make a living anymore, they migrated north for work. My ancestors were largely Canadian immigrants, legal and illegal. And great-grandpappy Detroitnerd and his boys traveled all over North America as itinerant laborers and carpenters. They'd work summers in Canada and Alaska and winters in Mexico, sending money home to Michigan, where great-grandma and the girls lived. And this was just a few generations ago. So when people start talking about "the law" and "parasites" and "illegals" and "free rides," I just have to laugh a bit ruefully. If you're worried about people getting a "free ride," you need look no farther than the bankers and politicos who are raiding the national treasury right now to pay their rich buddies who should be going broke. At times like this, those rich people need scapegoats, and so they want us to get all angry about immigrants. | ||
Gdub Member Username: Gdub Post Number: 287 Registered: 10-2003 |
If America were Mexico and vice-versa a lot of the xenophobes who crow about illegal immigration would themselves be the ones sneaking over the border. The argument that they steal jobs is weak. I worked at a restaurant in Detroit that had a crew of undocumented workers and they worked their asses off. They were productive, didn't complain, showed up on time, did a great job. Then, when the place was threatened with fines they had to let the entire crew go. Then they hired "legals", non-hispanic guys who lived in Detroit. And they were all lousy. Lazy, late, no-shows, complainers, etc. All of them sucked. They had basically reluctantly taken over jobs they didn't want to do, that had been previously occupied by people who did. | ||
Zrx_doug Member Username: Zrx_doug Post Number: 934 Registered: 03-2008 |
What exactly do you mean "people like me," Nerd? Are you even aware of the costs of illegal immigrantion to the American taxpayer? How about 3.9 billion a year in education costs? Or 1.5 billion yearly spent on imprisoning alien criminals? Estimates place the total figure in the hundreds of billions for illegal-related costs annually. Where do you think these funds come from, the great liberal money tree? It comes out of YOUR pocket, my friend. In Detroit, our troubles with illegals are few..but the sweeping reform being foisted upon us by by Luis Gutierrez is not limited to Detroit, it's nation-wide. I strongly suggest you take off your rose-colored glasses and look to the reality of our southern border states before speaking further on a topic which is much larger than your own personal experiences in Detroit. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 2549 Registered: 08-2007 |
U.S. Reps. John Conyers, D-Detroit, and Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick, D-Detroit, are among the congressional leaders joining Michigan's religious community for the national Family Unity outreach tour for immigration reform. The event, one stop on a 20-city tour, is to be held at 7 p.m. Friday at Greater Apostolic Faith Temple at 4735 W. Fort. U.S. Rep. Luis V. Gutierrez, D-Ill., who chairs the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Immigration Task Force, also is to attend the event. http://maps.google.com/maps?f= q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q= Greater+Apostolic+Faith+Temple +at+4735+W.+Fort+detroit&sll=4 2.332257,-83.116255&sspn=0,359 .996567&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=13 | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3751 Registered: 07-2004 |
"What exactly do you mean "people like me," Nerd?" Xenophobes. Scapegoaters. Chest-thumping nativists. "Are you even aware of the costs of illegal immigrantion to the American taxpayer?" "How about 3.9 billion a year in education costs? Or 1.5 billion yearly spent on imprisoning alien criminals?" Are you aware of their contributions to the American economy? Sure, there are costs involved with any person, but there are also benefits. On that topic, there are plenty of facts available, if you're really willing to look at them. Check out this factsheet from the Catholic Church, for instance. http://tinyurl.com/d2pv6y The report says, in part: They have found that "The net benefit of immigration to the U.S. is nearly $10 billion annually. As Alan Greenspan points out, 70% of immigrants arrive in prime working age. That means we haven’t spent a penny on their education, yet they are transplanted into our workforce and will contribute $500 billion toward our social security system over the next 20 years." You write: "Estimates place the total figure in the hundreds of billions for illegal-related costs annually." Well, where are these estimates? "Where do you think these funds come from, the great liberal money tree? It comes out of YOUR pocket, my friend." Yes, we all pay some costs for living in a civilized society. Those costs are there to help ensure something called the "common welfare." That means everybody who lives here. Ideally, barring corruption, the funds we spend help make sure that people are healthy, nourished and well-educated. I have no problem with helping educate a child in New Mexico I'll never meet or making sure a person in the San Fernando Valley I'll never employ is healthy. Why? Oh, it's this crazy idea that the true wealth of a nation is its people, not its loot. And that they are contributing to the economy, not like the actual parasites currently looting TRILLIONS of dollars from our national treasury. If you'd like to get all-fired-up about "parasites," I suggest you look into that issue. "In Detroit, our troubles with illegals are few..but the sweeping reform being foisted upon us by by Luis Gutierrez is not limited to Detroit, it's nation-wide." Well, if we reform the legislation, maybe the government won't have to spend $1.5 billion on imprisoning them in a system without constitutional protections. Basically, Doug, I think you're starting out from a wrong-headed nativist position, and then, with wishful thinking, selective research and emotional appeals, trying to rationalize it. But it's simply not true. I strongly suggest you take your position for what it is, a hypothesis, then do the unsexy work of seeing whether it's actually true. Lots less fun than chest-beating and shrieking about "illegals," but much more rewarding. | ||
Zrx_doug Member Username: Zrx_doug Post Number: 935 Registered: 03-2008 |
I'm truly glad that you're such a giving person Nerd..it's swell that you're willing to give everyone's tax dollars to support a starving child. Really, it is. But your "xenophobe" bullshit is just that, bullshit. Americans ARE out of work, and losing more jobs to illegals who are more than happy to accept sub-par wages. Illegals ARE a drain on our society, despite the fact that it gives you warm fuzzy feelings to give them a hand. Let me ask you this, Nerd..what do you do for a living? | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 2550 Registered: 08-2007 |
Dnerd, you're lumping all immigrants in with one another both legal and illegal. A laughably specious position to take. |
