Discuss Detroit » DISCUSS DETROIT! » French woman searchs traces of grandfather from Detroit » Archive through March 17, 2009 « Previous Next »
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Mary_murphy
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Username: Mary_murphy

Post Number: 8
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 7:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you very much at all.

Now, that I understand the word Bump (it is a abbreviation of bring up my post). On wordeReference. com. I found the translation for "bump": an impact . I believed that "bump" meant an impact. Now I like very much "bump".
I don't understand very well all the messages.
Tomorrow I am going to see the American teacher.
A woman very kind that will can help me to translate the messages.

At soon.
Cordially.
Mary Murphy
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 3610
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 12:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow as long as Ihavebeen using that I didnt know what that meant...

Thanks Mary! :-)
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Mary_murphy
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Username: Mary_murphy

Post Number: 9
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 6:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hello everyone,
I am writing with my English teacher. After reading ALL the posts (we were very impressed with all your ideas and work! - thanks! ), I realize that we need to clarify a few things. In my OP I made a mistake (oops!) with the baby Rene's birth year - it should be 1919, still July. (not 1918) Maybe that changes things?
Also, the cousine Beth is not MY cousin, it's the cousin of a William Murphy who was wounded, and consequently, I think it is NOT my grandfather.
Concerning the birthday of William Murphy, most likely he would have been born between 1892 and 1896/1897?? but in the US.
Thank you very much to all of you! I really appreciate your help and support.
Mary
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Zulu_warrior
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Username: Zulu_warrior

Post Number: 1273
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 9:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well through inductive reasoning....

It seems that the person found by DtCtygirl is the most likely candidate, but the draft card found by her has some questions. This draftee is 34 years old in 1917- did the US draft go so high in age at that time?

It seems that our William comes home from the War quickly and that his father dies between the 1910 and 1920 census.

He is a machinist, do the records contain where he worked?

Can we find this individual in the 1930, 1940,or 1950 census? Lets put out more details on him...

Where he worked, location and address of home, is that house still standing today? Photo from google earth, perhaps?

Let us be diligent in our research.
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Stosh
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Username: Stosh

Post Number: 154
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 9:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a little insight on the draft process in WWI:

On May 18, 1917, during World War I the Selective Service Act was passed authorizing the President to increase temporarily the military armed forces by the process of selecting men for induction into the military service. In 1917 and 1918, approximately 24 million men, (98% of men present in America), born between 1873 and 1900 completed draft registration cards. The selective service boards were responsible for registering men, classifying them, taking into consideration needs for manpower in certain industries and in agriculture, as well as certain special family situations of the registrants; handling any appeals of these classifications; determining the medical fitness of individual registrants; determining the order in which registrants would be called; calling registrants; and placing them on trains to training centers. Local boards were established for each county or similar subdivision in each state, and for each 30,000 persons (approximately) in each city or county with a population over 30,000.

During World War I there were three registrations. The first, on June 5, 1917, was for all men between the ages of 21 and 31. These men were born between 1886 - 1896. They answered a form containing twelve questions including order and serial numbers (assigned by the Selective Service System), full name, date and place of birth, race, citizenship, occupation, personal description, and signature.

The second registration, on June 5, 1918, registered those who attained age 21 after June 5, 1917. These men were born between 1896 - 1897. (A supplemental registration was held on August 24, 1918, for those becoming 21 years old after June 5, 1918. This was included in the second registration.) The form had ten questions including name, date of birth, birthplace, citizenship and father's birthplace.

The third registration was held on September 12, 1918, for men age 18 through 45. These men were born 1872 - 1886 and 1897 - 1900. They answered a twenty question form which included name, age in years, date of birth - not birthplace, citizenship, and address of nearest kin. After the signing of the armistice on November 11, 1918, the activities of the Selective Service System were rapidly curtailed. On March 31, 1919, all local, district, and medical advisory boards were closed.

So, it seems that just because a draft card was issued, it does not mean that they served in the war. Especially the older men. The candidate mentioned above would have not registered due to his age until September 12 1918.

Of course, that doesn't include those that actually volunteered for the war. I don't think that a draft card would have been needed if one had volunteered, would it?

(Message edited by stosh on March 16, 2009)
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Dtctygrl
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Username: Dtctygrl

Post Number: 83
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 12:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stosh, Thanks for the info on the Draft process! I have copies of the draft registrations for William and his brothers, Clarence and Elmer. As you stated, Elmer (age 20) signed the draft card on September 12, 1918; Clarence (age 22) signed the card on June 5, 1917. The date signed for William is left blank.
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Dtctygrl
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Username: Dtctygrl

Post Number: 84
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 1:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Information on the Draft Registration for William is as follows:
William Henry Murphy
1004 Milwaukee E, Detroit, Wayne, Michigan
Race: White
Natural Born: Yes
Present Occupation: Machinist
Employer's Name: Dafol Eustid Co. (this is hard to read and I have no idea if that is correct) 1164 W Jefferson, Detroit, Wayne, Michigan
Signed: William Henry Murphy
Height: Medium
Build: Slender
Color of Eyes: Blue
Color of Hair: Auburn
No other comments
Date of Registration is blank
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Stosh
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Username: Stosh

Post Number: 156
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 2:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1164 West Jefferson (Old Style) is the Dafoe Eustice Leather Goods Manufacturing company.



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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 2500
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great detective work Dctygrl, here is what I found on his company:

http://books.google.com/books? id=P-hUnsTczFUC&pg=RA5-PA108&d q=dafol+detroit

Dafol-Eustice company made canvas tops for Ford vehicles.

The owner was B.M. Eustice was the President and CEO. There is some indication the company was named DefoE with an E not an L.

http://books.google.com/books?id=BnopAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA247&dq=eustice,+detroit

http://books.google.com/books?id=CSoDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT100&dq=eustice,+detroit&lr=

There is some indiction that the company went through a re-organization in 1923.
http://books.google.com/books?id=K-M6AAAAMAAJ&q=eustice,+detroit&dq=eustice,+detroit&lr=&pgis=1

(Message edited by gnome on March 16, 2009)
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Stosh
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Username: Stosh

Post Number: 157
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 2:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

The owner was B.M. Eustice was the President and CEO. There is some indication the company was named DefoE with an E not an L.



See post above yours Gnome. Some indication indeed. LOL
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 2501
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hey! I was deep researching in google books when you posted Stosh, sorry, but thanks for on-line swirly. Poor Mary_Murphy is never going to be able to translate swirly.
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Stosh
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Username: Stosh

Post Number: 158
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 3:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry for the swirly Gnome. I've never heard of an online swirly until today. Here's a better explanation.



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Dtctygrl
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Username: Dtctygrl

Post Number: 85
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL You guys are the best!

I found Minnie, Clarence and Elmer in the 1930 Census - same address - both young men still single. No sign of William. I can't find him in the 1930 census. No strong matches for him single or married. I'm wondering if he hopped a boat to go back to Rene's mother only to find her married to another. Hmmm..... (yes, a romantic at heart!)
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Dtctygrl
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Username: Dtctygrl

Post Number: 86
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1920 Census lists William as working as a machine hand in an overall factory - or at least that is what is looks like it says. Any clue as to what factory this could be? He is still living with his mother and brothers at 1004 Milwaukee East. Looks like the house has a mortgage on it as well.
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Zulu_warrior
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Username: Zulu_warrior

Post Number: 1274
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 9:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What stands at 1004 Milwalkee East now? Do we have any pictures or old maps from past years that might depict the house?
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Stosh
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Username: Stosh

Post Number: 159
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Zulu_warrior, according to Microsoft Live maps, there is nothing there.

1004 East MIlwaukee
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Zulu_warrior
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Username: Zulu_warrior

Post Number: 1275
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We need some old maps of the area, prior to the expressway. I know this is the Hastings street area, which was quite populous and thriving at one point....
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Stosh
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Username: Stosh

Post Number: 161
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 10:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There's really no point in finding the house from that time period. You will see little more than the roof, even in the best quality aerial photos.

1928 Detroit Directory jumps from 977 to 1100 on East Milwaukee.
1004 East Milwaukee

And just for fun, 1004 East Milwaukee from the Sanborns:



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Dtctygrl
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Username: Dtctygrl

Post Number: 87
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is a William Murphy listed as a decorated veteran in the book "Michigan in The World War." Found a database online, but it doesn't give any details. Does anyone have this book?
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Stosh
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Username: Stosh

Post Number: 162
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 11:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a Wm. Murphy:

http://books.google.com/books? id=391mAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA307&dq=%2 BMichigan+%2B%22world+war%22++ %2B%22Wm+P+murphy%22
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 2269
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 11:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a contact who has the book "Michigan in the World War". I've sent her an e-mail requesting a look-up on the "William Murphy" listed in that book.
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Dtctygrl
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Username: Dtctygrl

Post Number: 88
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 11:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The book that Stosh has posted lists William as a member of the 107th Engineers. Would that be reasonable if Mary's grandfather were a mechanic by trade?
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 2270
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 11:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

The book that Stosh has posted lists William as a member of the 107th Engineers. Would that be reasonable if Mary's grandfather were a mechanic by trade?



Not necessarily. Most privates in the WW I Engineer Companies performed simple construction tasks such as digging trenches and building machine gun emplacements, blockhouses, barracks, etc.

More important is the fact that the 107th Engineers were part of the 32nd Infantry, which was made up of men mostly from Michigan and Wisconsin. The 32nd Infantry arrived in Brest, France beginning in January 1918.
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Dtctygrl
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Username: Dtctygrl

Post Number: 89
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 11:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Which would indeed put one William Murphy in the area when Germaine conceived Rene' in October 1918 and given birth in July 1919 (as Mary had corrected the year in a prior post). I think we could be getting close to having some concrete evidence, guys.
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Stosh
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Username: Stosh

Post Number: 163
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 11:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a translation of a French discussion board that Mary_Murphy has been asking similar questions on. One fact interested me in the discussions, that her daughter had red hair. No family history of this. It also struck me that in Detctygrl's description of her Murphy, he had Auburn hair. Red?

French Discussion Board Pages 14-18
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Dtctygrl
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Username: Dtctygrl

Post Number: 90
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 11:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yep. It's red! I think we may have found Mary's grandfather!
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Stosh
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Username: Stosh

Post Number: 164
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 11:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a list of Wm. Murphy in 1928:

Full view of the page is below.





http://www.evendon.net/PGHLookups/cgi-bin/HandOff-1_0.cgi?Detroit1928CD+Detroit1928+1531
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Stosh
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Username: Stosh

Post Number: 165
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 11:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Concentrating on William H, we would see that he is married to Josephine, works as a repairman, and also living on 2990 Canton Avenue. Good news is that he's not listed in the 1920 Census at this address. 1930 would be a good source if anyone has access.

2990 Canton



(Message edited by stosh on March 17, 2009)
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Dtctygrl
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Username: Dtctygrl

Post Number: 91
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 12:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

According to the census records William H. married to Josephine was born in 1879 in Illinois.
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Stosh
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Username: Stosh

Post Number: 166
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 12:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oops! Of course he's too old. So he's out. Really, I can't see how this search could work out to be useful. Too many variables.