Discuss Detroit » DISCUSS DETROIT! » Bad news from Chicago « Previous Next »
Top of pageBottom of page

Dcmorrison12
Member
Username: Dcmorrison12

Post Number: 49
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Thursday, March 05, 2009 - 10:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

a news article from the Sun Times

"Shangri-La is no more. Operators of the proposed Shangri-La Hotel at 111 W. Wacker said Wednesday they have pulled out of the deal because the global recession has stopped the project while it's still a concrete shell.

The 220-room Shangri-La would have been part of a 90-story condominium building called Waterview Tower at the southwest corner of Wacker and Clark. The developer, Teng & Associates Inc., failed to line up new funding from China, and construction crews quit the job last year.
Shangri-La Hotels and Resorts said its U.S. division "has served a notice on the developer terminating its contracts relating to this project."

Teng executives did not return calls. Losing Shangri-La is a staggering blow to a deal already mired in unpaid debts and controversy.

State officials have investigated Teng sales practices. Separately, federal investigators have subpoenaed Teng records in connection with the "pay to play" probe of former Gov. Rod Blagojevich."
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4222
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 05, 2009 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How is this Detroit related, and more importantly, how does the loss of not even a project (just a component of a project) mean anything in the grand scheme of Chicago downtown development? Even more importantly, why are you posting this, at all?
Top of pageBottom of page

Dcmorrison12
Member
Username: Dcmorrison12

Post Number: 52
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Thursday, March 05, 2009 - 10:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The project has been put on hold... and we all know it most likely won't become a reality.

Anywho... I like to bring other cities to the stage when talking about Detroit. Southeastern Michigan gets stuck with the concept of "oh, it's because of Detroit"


...L Michigan... CHILL!

(Message edited by dcmorrison12 on March 05, 2009)
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4223
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 05, 2009 - 10:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just thought it was a horrible example of a city downtown to choose to illustrate that Detroit isn't in this alone. I could see you choosing a failed downtown Cleveland or Baltimore, etc...project to illustrate this, but downtown Chicago which has, what, dozens of super-expensive high-rises under construction at this very minute?
Top of pageBottom of page

Wolverine
Member
Username: Wolverine

Post Number: 612
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 05, 2009 - 10:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah I agree. Dcmorrison, numerous cities are experiencing stalled projects. What's the point? Waterview and the Spire may be visible signs of our nation's economy, but keep in mind all the thousands of other projects in the US that never got off the ground.

"The project has been put on hold... and we all know it most likely won't become a reality."

We all know.......what do you REALLY know about Waterview asside from a few business articles on the matter?
Top of pageBottom of page

Dcmorrison12
Member
Username: Dcmorrison12

Post Number: 53
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Thursday, March 05, 2009 - 10:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yea, but MANY of those projects are being stalled, or abandoned, even after they started construction. Take the Chicago Spear (or spiral) as an example. That project already had the pilings placed in the ground, but they abandoned the project. It was going to be the largest building in America. There are still some building being built, but a lot are failing.
Top of pageBottom of page

Dcmorrison12
Member
Username: Dcmorrison12

Post Number: 54
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Thursday, March 05, 2009 - 11:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is getting sidetracked. My overall point was to bring attention that other cities have their problems. There is a true problem in this region where, if someone gets mugged "it's because Detroit is dangerous" and not because it's a major city. I've lived in the suburbs and now I live in the city and I've witnessed this problem first hand.
Top of pageBottom of page

Leannam1989
Member
Username: Leannam1989

Post Number: 207
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 05, 2009 - 11:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm guessing this is the project they were talking about, in case anyone is curious.

http://tinyurl.com/b9ksyt
Top of pageBottom of page

Wolverine
Member
Username: Wolverine

Post Number: 613
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 05, 2009 - 11:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well a few things. I was critical in my response because:

1. You aren't stating facts. These projects are not abandoned. Abandoned means they walked off, gave up, transfered the property. They did not, and they are still selling units. I realize on this forum you can say what you want, but I really don't think it's fair to make things up to sell your side of the story. You can keep using the word stalled since that is a fact, the rest is assumption.

2. It's common behavior on this forum where people cite other city or region's issues to distract or mitigate the stereotypes or impressions people have of Detroit. But why not for once, just focus on Detroit, and stop measuring the city's level of success with everyone else's failures
Top of pageBottom of page

Dcmorrison12
Member
Username: Dcmorrison12

Post Number: 58
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Thursday, March 05, 2009 - 11:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As far as I read, in the Sun times, a few months back - The spire was abandoned. In that same article, it spoke of a few other projects being abandoned, but more being stalled.

I wasn't lying.

Anyways, I'm not trying to distract from Detroit's issues, we ALL are well versed on the subject. I'm bringing up another point, that being Southeastern Michigan has this jerk reaction to blame ALL issues that plague Detroit in the fact that it is Detroit. They ignore the fact that Detroit has issues which are issues that most other Major cities encounter.

Wolverine, why don't you stop trying to put all blame ON the city.
Top of pageBottom of page

Crumbled_pavement
Member
Username: Crumbled_pavement

Post Number: 737
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 05, 2009 - 11:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Originally posted by Dcmorrison12:

Anyways, I'm not trying to distract from Detroit's issues, we ALL are well versed on the subject. I'm bringing up another point, that being Southeastern Michigan has this jerk reaction to blame ALL issues that plague Detroit in the fact that it is Detroit. They ignore the fact that Detroit has issues which are issues that most other Major cities encounter.



Dc, I know exactly where you are coming from and exactly what you are trying to say. When I first arrived on this web site I felt the same way. However, if you go to www.city-data.com (which has message boards for all the major U.S. cities) or many other forums on the internet you will it is typical knee-jerk reaction everywhere to respond to a problem with, "only in . . . "

Example, if a police officer beats a person to death in New Orleans then people there will say, "only in New Orleans are police so corrupt." However, that kind of thing can happen anywhere. Truth is, people are extremely cynical (and I know this from personal experience). A city like Detroit gives pessimists plenty of ammo.

Just focus on what you can do to make the city better and take both positive and negative statements with a grain of salt.
Top of pageBottom of page

Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 2077
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 05, 2009 - 11:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This building is done for. It has been dead in the water for months. They built about 20 floors of concrete and then ran out of money.

Nothing has been done on it for almost a year. It's dead until proven otherwise.

The reason it's a big deal (though still not Detroit-related) is because it was to be a 90-ish story building, on prime downtown Chicago real-estate. This article may only address the loss of a component of the project, but the entire project is currently dead. It's probably 15% finished and there's no more money.
Top of pageBottom of page

Wolverine
Member
Username: Wolverine

Post Number: 614
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 05, 2009 - 11:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Sun Times never said anything about the spire being abandoned. Yes contractors may have "abandoned" the sites as liens have been filed, but the projects are still considered active, if not "transitioning" since the On-Hold status for the spire came conveniently after foundation work was complete. End of that.

I'm not pointing all blame on Detroit as a whole. No one should ever generalize. It's the fault of certain leaders or certain citizens to bring positive change. It all adds up. The person who leaves trash in their yard to ineffective city leadership.

I think it's wrong to say: "Well, we have crime, but everyone has crime so let's keep the status quo." I would say "We have a crime problem, and we should do something about it."

Actually, I am at fault for something here and that's posting in this thread. It would be nice to see more threads on this forum about people actually taking action to bring positive change in the city. Except that these people are busy out volunteering instead of posting.

DC, don't think I'm trying to launch an attack here. I'm simply correcting something you said, with a little criticism. You are more than welcome to correct me if I'm wrong, but I will need facts to prove it. I don't live in Detroit, so I don't know everything. I've been corrected on certain things here and I have no problem with that.
Top of pageBottom of page

Crawford
Member
Username: Crawford

Post Number: 499
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 12:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wolverine, the Spire is 100% abandoned.

The bank that was supposedly financing it has been nationalized by the Irish government, and the Irish carpenter who (despite never building anything in his life) claimed he could build a $2 billion tower, is in hiding from debt collectors in the Irish countryside.

The Spire was never going to be built, even in good times. It was a ridiculous proposal, and was never taken seriously by the Chicago real estate community (of which my brother-in-law is a prominent member).
Top of pageBottom of page

Wolverine
Member
Username: Wolverine

Post Number: 615
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 1:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's likely, but I still haven't seen any official literature confirming that this tower has been put to rest officially. The sales center was still open recently, but indeed common sense and the lack of financing tell us it's a goner. I'm sure an article will pop up sooner or later.
Top of pageBottom of page

Leannam1989
Member
Username: Leannam1989

Post Number: 208
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 1:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I never really understood the Chicago Spire. Seemed impractical to me.

But it's hard to compare Chicago to any other city in the Midwest.

But every city is being hit hard by this recession. That doesn't mean that we should feel sorry for Chicago, though.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ktkeller08
Member
Username: Ktkeller08

Post Number: 37
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 3:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Developments are failing all over the place. Basically if you didn't get your whole project financed and started before last fall, and you're not able to sell or rent a large percentage of whatever you're building, you're screwed.

It really doesn't matter whether you're a city like Minneapolis, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, St. Louis, or Detroit, or you're a huge city like LA, Chicago, or NYC... times are tough.

Developers are getting shut down because, well basically banks have gone from giving anyone development money to making darn sure you're going to get a return so you can pay them back.

So yes, you're right that canceled developments don't really have anything to do with Detroit being, well, whatever it is people think it is. But also, canceled developments in Chicago have nothing to do with either Chicago nor Detroit.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitdecor
Member
Username: Detroitdecor

Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 6:00 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wow I wouldn't have though after reading the first of this thread that such a debate would have followed... hmmm.... interesting. I wish I had something more to add other than times are tough but I don't...
Top of pageBottom of page

East_detroit
Member
Username: East_detroit

Post Number: 2030
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 7:35 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chicago made a killing on killing.

Cattle and gangsters.
Top of pageBottom of page

Illwill
Member
Username: Illwill

Post Number: 66
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 9:16 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is a 90 story building and 26 stories have already been built. I guarantee you that this project will continue full speed ahead and will be completed. The catch is that it'll simply be taken over by another developer that already has the financial means to move forward at a discounted rate. I give it a couple of months a you'll see construction resuming. Chicago is a very aggressive city when it comes to getting things done. Especially in such a hot location.
Top of pageBottom of page

Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 3846
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 9:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

This is a 90 story building and 26 stories have already been built. I guarantee you that this project will continue full speed ahead and will be completed. The catch is that it'll simply be taken over by another developer that already has the financial means to move forward at a discounted rate. I give it a couple of months a you'll see construction resuming. Chicago is a very aggressive city when it comes to getting things done. Especially in such a hot location.



Doubt it. Chicago has no control over the banks. Construction projects in cities all over the country have hit the brakes. If the plug has been pulled on this project already, then there is little chance that they will find a bank to offer the financing in these times... Especially for such a ridiculous concept. Who wants to live in a 90 story condo tower?!
Top of pageBottom of page

Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 5376
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 9:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It has to be 90 stories so they can sell some units based on having a lake view. :-)

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.