 
Kryptonite
Member
Username: Kryptonite
Post Number: 93
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 9:21 am: |    |
Personally I don't care for Granholm although during the past 12 months or so I think it's finally dawning on her that she needs to accomplish some tangible things before her time in office ends and I no longer regret voting for her.
The last statistic I heard was that even California's unemployment rate is well over 9%, and that's generally a booming state.
Isn't it frightening that the current US economy is so bad though that there probably are very few job opportunities for people moving from any state to any state. I think it's so bad nearly everywhere that a relocation is unlikely to result in a job somewhere else. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 9558
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 9:27 am: | |
quote:Our roads would last longer if MI didn't insist that concrete used for road building has corn meal mush as it's primary ingredient.
I approve of this post. |
Kryptonite
Member
Username: Kryptonite
Post Number: 95
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 9:34 am: | |
Damn right Johnlodge, I have seen Telegraph and Squirrel road rebuilt in the last 7 or 8 years and both are terrible disasters already. And there's little if any truck traffic on Squirrel in the Chrysler headquarters area. So they are either doing crap work or using crap materials. Telegraph between 12 and Square Lake started crumbling within weeks of the completion of the rebuild. Nice job there.
We pay a ton of taxes in MI, and few people are not supportive of road improvements but when the 'improvements' don't even last one year WTF??? It's infuriating. |
Sstashmoo
Member
Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 3407
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 9:42 am: | |
Quote: "UncleFrank nailed it. The first step in repairing and preserving our roads is significantly lowering the weight limit for trucks."
Three loads/trips instead of one drives up the price of the goods they carry. It costs one way or the other. |
Lowell
Moderator
Username: Lowell
Post Number: 2239
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 9:48 am: | |
I think Granholm has done the best job possible considering the mess she was left with and the broader economic forces that were already falling on Michigan when she entered office.
The previous administration used tax cuts as a device for reelection but seriously strapped the ability of the state to do anything. By the time she came in they had devoured the rainy day fund and left her with the unpopular task of making all the cuts and cleaning up after their party.
She has cut the state budget by several billions while running what is recognized as one of the better run state bureaucracies in the country.
There has never been a sniff of corruption on her part and she has guided the state vigorously toward economic diversification in green, information age and other non-manufacturing industries.
The people of Michigan know and appreciate this and re-elected her in spite of billionaire DeVos' million spent to defeat her and her party has steady gained in both houses.
If you are ready to leave Michigan on that basis we have a long time saying on this forum. "Don't let the door hitya where the good lawd splitya." |
Rjlj
Member
Username: Rjlj
Post Number: 820
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 9:51 am: | |
You can write off vehicle registration fees anyway so it really does not matter. |
Mauser765
Member
Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 3044
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 9:58 am: | |
Thafuzz - I speak from a position of betrayal in reference to public school teachers unions in Michigan that were sold down the river to the republicans. Of everything going on now, the last thing the governor should ever be doing is participating in or facilitating the destruction of workers unions in michigan.
Especially the ones that put her in office to begin with.
When the Teamsters, AFL CIO and the Michigan teachers unions all combine under one collective bargaining machine, the republicans and the democrats as well as the corporate fascists will ALL understand what the power of the workers can actually do.
Zero tolerance for traitors.
Power to the People. |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 2454
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 10:00 am: | |
a quick google search of truck weight limits for midwestern states:
Weight, length limits for trucks*
State Truck weight (pounds) Trailer length(feet)
Illinois 80,000 65
Indiana 80,000 None
Iowa 80,000 None
Kansas 80,000 None
Michigan 164,000 58
Minnesota 80,000 75
Nebraska 95,000 65
N Dakota 105,000 75
Ohio 80,000 None
S Dakota 129,000 None
Wisconsin 80,000 65
* Indiana (127,000 tons), Kansas (120,000) and Ohio (127,000) have different weight limits for turnpikes
http://www.csgmidwest.org/Memb erServices/QOM/2008/0308.htm
Can't vouch for this site, but the numbers explain a lot. I do notice that the I-80 turnpike carries some pretty heavy trucks, but still almost 40,000 pounds less than what can be carried of Michigan roads. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 4504
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 10:07 am: | |
Truck weights aren't a problem if the roads are designed and constructed to support the loads.
*Regular* maintenance helps too. |
Detroitred
Member
Username: Detroitred
Post Number: 12
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 10:10 am: | |
@ Sstashmoo...
The roads aren't torn up by trucks carrying apples or juice boxes. It's the gravel trucks and other high-weight materials. It's not like Ohio or Indiana has far more expensive goods.
And "it costs one way or another" is a worthless argument. The way that it does cost with our current weight-limits is hundreds of millions of tax dollars being used to fix roads. Then two or three years later using another $300M to fix the same road. And it causes road closures which affects businesses and the roads used for detours. It's a cyclical problem and it will never end until the weight limit is significantly lowered. We wonder why there is constant road construction every summer... |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 1199
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 10:34 am: | |
"Thafuzz - I speak from a position of betrayal in reference to public school teachers unions in Michigan that were sold down the river to the republicans. Of everything going on now, the last thing the governor should ever be doing is participating in or facilitating the destruction of workers unions in michigan. "
This is ludicrous. Teacher unions are the only group that has largely escaped the effects of the state budget cuts. Name one area where teacher unions have done worse than anyone else at any level of government in this state? This is one area where Granholm has dropped the ball. She should have gotten a handle on teacher pensions and health care from day one. Instead, she's failed to deal with it and it's one of the reasons that the state has struggled to make the budgets balance for the past 10 years. |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 1200
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 10:36 am: | |
"The way that it does cost with our current weight-limits is hundreds of millions of tax dollars being used to fix roads. Then two or three years later using another $300M to fix the same road."
Which road is this? |
Detroitred
Member
Username: Detroitred
Post Number: 13
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 10:44 am: | |
Ummm every metro freeway. I-75, I-96... isn't there construction on these roads every other summer or is it just me? They closed down I-75 for what a year and a half.. and they'll probably close it again in 5 years.
The State spends about $3.6 Billion on road repairs annually and it is estimated it would take $6 Billion for full effectiveness. |
_sj_
Member
Username: _sj_
Post Number: 1717
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 12:12 pm: | |
When you have governments spending a disproportionate amount of money on wages and benefits there will always be little money left over for anything else. Some cities in this state are approaching 80% of your tax dollars being spent on personnel.
You don't raise taxes, you keep your expenses in line with your revenues. She has been a sleep at the wheel and keep playing high and fast with the budget instead of what is right for the taxpayers.
You can't pay 1st place wages when you don't have 1st place income. |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 1202
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 12:15 pm: | |
"Ummm every metro freeway. I-75, I-96... isn't there construction on these roads every other summer or is it just me?"
Where on 75 and 96 were areas rebuilt and then had to be rebuilt three years later? I don't believe this has happened but since you've said it has, I wanted to know where. |
Detroitred
Member
Username: Detroitred
Post Number: 17
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 12:42 pm: | |
I have no idea where to find information on which specific areas of road were under construction throughout history, I'm going off personal memory.
My point is that every summer we spend big dollars on the same problems that can be at least partially solved by lowering weight limits on trucks. Look at I-94 as an example. It's a major shipping route for Detroit-Chicago truck traffic, and it is under construction every summer. And yet it's still torn up the next next year. I just feel like a major point of spending could be cut down a little by imposing better weight limits. Look at the list that Gnome posted. Michigan's limit is over twice as high as any other Great Lake state, and our roads are the worst. It's definitely something to consider. |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 2456
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 1:06 pm: | |
D-red, also look at the length of the trucks. Michigan has a max length of 58 feet, with a max weight of 164,000 pounds. Not great at physics, but those numbers translate into a lot of pounding in a smallish package.
Think of it like a lady's high-heel. A 120 pound lady in high-heels can dent a maple floor, whereas our dear giant Cub, in size 17 workboots, can glide across that same floor without leaving a trace.
Put Cub in a pair of CFMs and that floor would be in splinters.
Now, on the other side of things, I've traveled a lot along I94 and I80 and I don't like driving next to the ninety foot double trailers that inhabit those roadways.
Not sure of the answer, but there certainly seems to be a connection between truck size, weight and roadbed disintegration. |
Unclefrank
Member
Username: Unclefrank
Post Number: 146
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 1:07 pm: | |
The high weight limits were put in place to support the WW2 production efforts, and never repealed. Ask any State Trooper what tears up our roads and he\she will tell you about the trucks. The fact that our Michigan Dept. of Transportation has a nice cozy relationship with the crooked contractors doesn't help. To the person that can't tell what roads are being destroyed, just wake up and look around. |
Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 3608
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 1:24 pm: | |
Oh, yes, I heard your argument: It costs more to run three loads than to run one very heavy load. I would add to that this detail: It costs the SHIPPER more to run three loads than to run one very heavy load. The costs borne may well be the same: A few hundred dollars more for every load shipped, or several hundred million dollars more to repair the road.
What we're really talking about here is "externalizing" the costs of shipping. When you're legally allowed to run heavy loads that destroy roads, you save the shippers money and saddle the driving public with the repair costs.
Seriously, we all wind up paying for these absurdly high weight limits, and that's probably one reason it's never been repealed: We're paying for their bad behavior -- and they like it that way. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 9565
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 1:29 pm: | |
If the weight limit in Ohio is so low, but in Michigan it's so high, wouldn't it only pertain to non-interstate trucks? Is that a large portion of the fleet these days? |
Melody
Member
Username: Melody
Post Number: 335
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, March 07, 2009 - 5:26 pm: | |
Aside from the increase in sales tax (New Jersey pays 7% too, btw), these are all auto-related taxes. Then again, no one is forcing you to drive or own a car. I think Jenny is doing the best she can considering the situations. I really like her ideas about extending the bar hours and offering early Sunday sales. I would totally pay up for the extra license to do that at my place. |
Warriorfan
Member
Username: Warriorfan
Post Number: 819
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, March 07, 2009 - 8:21 pm: | |
If Jenny and the Democrats in the state legislature were smart, she'd beat California to the inevitable punch and legalize marijuana. Legalize it, tax it, and not only will you create new jobs, but generate what will probably amount to hundreds of millions of dollars in new tax revenue. And that's in addition to the reduced burden on the criminal justice system and the reduced funds flowing into the pockets of criminals.
It's going to happen sooner or later anyways. Some state will be the first to do it, and the state to reap the benefits first. What's holding us back except irrational fear and misinformation?
Ignore the conservative hypocrites and the Christian moral a-holes, they obviously see no problem with opening up a six-pack of Bud and lighting up a stogie, but they pass self-righteous judgment on those who smoke a natural plant that is non-addictive and that you can't OD on. |
Detroitjim
Member
Username: Detroitjim
Post Number: 68
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, March 07, 2009 - 8:32 pm: | |
Don't bother telling us you're going just.,.,.,.,.,.
GIT! |
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 1754
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, March 07, 2009 - 8:33 pm: | |
Thanks Jenny I'm ah-blowing away...to another state
See ya later. Take care. |
Roq
Member
Username: Roq
Post Number: 18
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, March 07, 2009 - 8:38 pm: | |
"What's holding us back except irrational fear and misinformation?"
The Federal Controlled Substances Act. |
Whittier70
Member
Username: Whittier70
Post Number: 225
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, March 07, 2009 - 9:04 pm: | |
I don't know if this already exists but how about a gas guzzler (heavy vehicle) tax and luxury vehicle tax. That is, instead of raising gas prices for everybody else.
(Message edited by whittier70 on March 07, 2009) |
Trayd
Member
Username: Trayd
Post Number: 3
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, March 07, 2009 - 11:10 pm: | |
I like Granholm. The way I see it, we *could've* had a shady gov (i.e. IL gov) **shudders**
I feel like she's got great ideas that will progress the state. I just hope that any revenue generated from increased taxes really goes toward it's intended purposes (i.e. roads) and not towards other problems that may not need as much attention right now.
(Message edited by trayd on March 07, 2009) |
Bigb23
Member
Username: Bigb23
Post Number: 4137
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, March 07, 2009 - 11:22 pm: | |
Casstech1981, has not trolled on this thread since it's posting. That explains alot. Boy, am I tired of the Granmole headings.
You will not be missed for the next two years. |
Philbo
Member
Username: Philbo
Post Number: 91
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, March 08, 2009 - 12:05 am: | |
Warriorfan- apparently you don't know many conservatives. I know more than one that likes thier bud as much as anybody else. Ask a cigarette store owner who they sell thier zig zag papers to and you'll be suprised. Young,old,etc. including those conservative looking dudes in business suits.
(Message edited by Philbo on March 08, 2009)
(Message edited by Philbo on March 08, 2009) |
Sticks
Member
Username: Sticks
Post Number: 296
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, March 08, 2009 - 4:26 am: | |
One way you can tell it's the trucks fucking up the interstates: the granny lanes. Ever travel in the middle or right lane on NB I-75 between Monroe and Rockwood? If you ever needed to find out if your car had a rattle somewhere, sitting in those lanes would find it. But move to the hammer lane and all of a sudden things got smoother (but still quite shitty compared to other states).
If the weight limit in Ohio is so low, but in Michigan it's so high, wouldn't it only pertain to non-interstate trucks? Is that a large portion of the fleet these days?
Gravel haulers (some of the worst drivers out there, they should be driving wreckers, imo) I would think are mostly in-state. Keep in mind the national legal weight for a big rig is 40 tons but individual states can set their own limits. But if you run OTR, you're going to have to get permits for each state for that load, which I imagine can't be easy. The drivers could try dodging all the chicken coups along the way..
To get back on topic, I'm also one of the many that moved out of state for a job. It's fun to listen to people around Metro DC complain about the economy. You tell them you're from Detroit and they have no idea how bad it's there. |
Crosswordgirl
Member
Username: Crosswordgirl
Post Number: 483
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, March 08, 2009 - 10:17 am: | |
welcome to detroityes casstech1981 and for starting such a controversial thread. i know it's been difficult for you this last year with your job - especially because your organization has been one of the hardest hit in this economy. i'm glad that you are interested in posting because you're extremely intelligent, humorous and you are concerned with what is going on around you. you've worked harder than anyone i've known to get where you are at and i've always been very impressed by you. in addition, as a white kid growing up in detroit in the 70's and 80s, you have an interesting perspective of the changes that have happened in the city. i hope to read more from you. |
Casstech1981
Member
Username: Casstech1981
Post Number: 9
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, March 08, 2009 - 12:53 pm: | |
She has had 7 years to provide decisive leadership, but failed. Those closest to her have admitted she is overwhelmed and mostly ineffective.
Government spending and management of its resources has not paralleled those of the private sector. Need to cut spending and become more efficient. Increased taxes don't spur long term economic growth or jobs, the business tax is killing small businesses who are the backbone of jobs in this country. Increasing taxes is inept leadership.
The states infrastructure is crumbling, not conducive for retaining or attracting business or jobs. We continue rebuilding our roads with the same poor methods, long term that is probably more expensive and a poor business model. Has she done anything to improve that situation?
The states most educated continue to leave. Can we afford to let that continue?
Yes, she may have inherited a difficult situation, and the auto industry is in the crapper with the greed of banks and government deregulation,,,,,,but where was she on her trips to Japan,,,,,, and unaware that Honda was looking to build a new plant in the US? She did'nt even know .....How can you NOT know?
Where was her leadership when Pfizer (AA largest tax payer) pulled up stakes and left the state? Sleeping at the wheel.
How about the 116Mil for the new state police building for her friend Joel Furgeson...that we all get to pay for.....What a bad business decision for the taxpayers |
Sstashmoo
Member
Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 3416
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, March 08, 2009 - 1:25 pm: | |
Quote: "The roads aren't torn up by trucks carrying apples or juice boxes. It's the gravel trucks and other high-weight materials."
Like steel they build your car with, like salt they salt your roads with. Governments don't pay for anything, taxpayers pay for every state project. To split these loads by thrice, would drive the trucking costs up by the same.
It's been argued that empty trucks cause damage to roads as well. They bounce and impact the pavement surface. Ohio allows heavy loads on their roads, they just don't have the same industry we have/had. They don't have as cold of temperatures as we have. Comparing Metro-Detroit traffic with Toledo traffic, we have much higher volumes.
Heavier loads have more axles, the weight is the same per axle whether it is 45k# or 183k#.
Quote: "And "it costs one way or another" is a worthless argument."
It is?  |
Jim
Member
Username: Jim
Post Number: 56
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 08, 2009 - 1:40 pm: | |
How in the hell do you think Granholm could have stopped Pfizer? A magic wand? A prayer? Begging and a blow job?
The paranoia that a single person is to overcome some 20 - 30 years of misguided action is stupid.
It is easier to blame a different person than to take any responsibility for the policies we support, the people we vote into office and our for our ability to not have the strength to work on correcting a trainwreck years in the making.
It is all Granholm's fault - she made me impotent. |
Gene
Member
Username: Gene
Post Number: 211
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, March 08, 2009 - 2:05 pm: | |
Jenny is good at cheer leading, and having met her at numerous government functions, a very pleasant person.
Beyond that, if you do nothing while in office you wont be blamed for all the evils in the world like Bush and Engler have been.
Do something.
"Cool City" anyone? |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 1220
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, March 08, 2009 - 4:24 pm: | |
Casstech, you've shown that you excel at your ability to carp and complain but you haven't offered one alternative to funding the transportation infrastructure. Where's your brilliant alternative to what the Governor has proposed? Even the Detroit News suggested jacking up the current gas tax as an alternative. |
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