  Chefdave Member Username: Chefdave Post Number: 51 Registered: 04-2004 |
Wondering what your thoughts on who the lions will get in the first round. Last year Miami got Jake Long. Maybe the lions will repeat that with Andre Smith or a QB. The number 20 pick is interesting because there are so many needs. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 6630 Registered: 11-2004 |
Now that some junior QBs have come out for the draft, the Lions might go for one of them but I'd still much rather get a stud lineman in a Andre Smith. Build up the trenches long before we go for more flash in a QB. | ||
Chefdave Member Username: Chefdave Post Number: 52 Registered: 04-2004 |
Yeah I agree plus qb will be available at 20 maybe worthy of the pick and there is always the second round pick that is almots a first as well. | ||
401don Member Username: 401don Post Number: 913 Registered: 11-2007 |
I don't think a team as bad as the Lions on the Lines should use a no. 1 overall pick for a lineman. They should try to trade for multiple picks similar to the Dallas trade and get as many high quality players as they can. The more quality qb's that come available, the better the trade opportunities. | ||
Rickinatlanta Member Username: Rickinatlanta Post Number: 224 Registered: 07-2006 |
Stafford and Moreno from UGA just announced. Stafford's got a LOT of potential but without a line to protect him or a running game to take pressure off he could be another Harrington. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 6633 Registered: 11-2004 |
Alas 401don, trading the number one pick isn't as easy as people think it is. The price/ contract for a number one pick is considerably much more than any of the other lower picks. As if expectations aren't hard enough on the overall number one pick- the position of QB has got to be a pressure cooker. I still say keep it with Andre Smith and build up from within the trenches. I'd use the Miami draft from last year (tossing the bank at Jake Long) as a template right now. Drafting a sexy pick isn't where the Lions need to be right now when you've been hit with this much ugly over the Millen era. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 897 Registered: 12-2006 |
I'd like to see the lions either draft Smith with the #1 or trade down to the 6 or 7 pick and take Oher and then pick up some more picks. The Lions should draft a middle linebacker with the #20 pick. Hopefully Maualuga from USC or Laurenaitis from Ohio State. If neither of the linebackers are available someone like Terrance Cody, DT out of Alabama or Taylor Mays S out of USC could be good choices at that spot. For that first pick in the 2nd round FLorida middle linebacker Brandon Spikes (if the Lions don't get a LB with the #20 pick) or Georgia Tech DE Michael Johnson are intriguing picks at that spot. The Lions get two picks in the 3rd round, the #1 pick and the #20 pick from Dallas. That first pick would be a good spot to take one of three centers that will likely be available around that time. Max Unger from Oregon, Alex Mack from Cal, or John Luigs from Arkansas The other 3rd round pick is a good place to pick up another receiving threat to take some of the pressure off Calvin Johnson. Penn State WR Derrick Williams has the top end speed to take advantage of the man to man coverage he will get while defenses double team Johnson. Travis Beckum, Wisconsin TE is another option as well. If those guys are taken, the Lions could go with another lineman like offensive guard Andrew Levitre from Oregon State or Cinci corner Mike Mickens. The point of all this is that the Lions have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. They could SIGNIFICANTLY improve their team. And for those interested in getting a QB, keep an eye on Ohio State's Todd Boeckman as a 6th or 7th round pick of value. He had the misfortune playing the first few game games without Beanie Wells and then got surpassed by Pryor, but he's got good size, ok mobility, and a strong arm. He's the sort of late round QB that turns into a 10 year vet. | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 736 Registered: 11-2006 |
Jimbo, Don't forget free agents. It is possible to go from the outhouse to penthouse quickly with skill and good fortune. Lions have draft choices and salary cap. | ||
Raj313 Member Username: Raj313 Post Number: 48 Registered: 01-2009 |
Forget the QB, the Lions were dead last in defense. Me and 10 of my 50 year old bear bellied friends could score on the Lions. With 5 of the first 84 picks I would fix the defense and look to free agents to fix the offense. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1701 Registered: 12-2003 |
That is a terrible strategy. You can't completely ignore one side of the ball like that in any phase of the game. Strategies like that are why they are in this situation. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 956 Registered: 12-2006 |
One of the big reasons the Lions were so bad was that the defense was the field ALL game long. The offense ran the second fewest plays from scrimmage and had the second worst time of possession of any team in the NFL last year. One of the BEST ways to improve your defense is to limit the amount of time they are on the field. This doesn't mean that you have to turn the offensive into an offensive juggernaut like the 2007 Patriots (but that would help), but simply a unit that moves the ball a bit more to avoid 3 and out situations and giving your opponent good field position. Both of those put a LOT of pressure on your defense. With that in mind, I would focus on rebuilding the offensive line. This doesn't require a big overhaul. It can actually be improved with two changes. 1. The FA market for offensive tackles is very weak so the best bet is to draft Jason Smith from Baylor with the first pick in the draft. He can step in and play left tackle from day one. This allows the Lions to slide Backus inside to a guard spot. While Backus is an average LT, he would probably make a very capable guard. So by drafting one player you upgrade two positions. 2. Either draft or sign in FA a new center. The Lions are weak in the middle and are in desperate need of an upgrade. The two players that interest me are Jason Brown and Alex Mack. Jason Brown, while not a star, is a VERY solid center who has played his first 4 seasons with the Baltimore Ravens. He's big, he's solid, and he's reliable. He's also young and getting ready to hit the prime years of his career. Alex Mack, in my opinion, has the potential to be a star. He's been outstanding in college anchoring the line at Cal. Centers typically aren't valued as high as other linemen so I think he will be available for the Lions to take with the first pick in the 2nd round. If the Lions wanted to take a shot at a guard in the later rounds that wouldn't be a bad thing either. All this, however, doesn't mean that the defense doesn't need to be addressed. However, this gets a bit murkier. The Lions need someone at DT to pair off with Cory Redding. The Lions gave up an NFL worst 5.1 yards per carry on the ground last year. Mainly because the interior of their defensive line was not strong enough at the point of attack. In my opinion, a great undervalued FA that the Lions could bring in for not a lot of money is Tank Johnson. He's only in his 5th year and he's a big, strong, talented guy. Linebackers will also need to be addressed. Who knows how the "Jordon Dizon Project" is going but the Lions may need an upgrade at the SAM linebacker. Paris Lenon had a very good year last year and has shown improvement, but an upgrade in the middle still might not be a bad idea. I would like to see the Lions use the #20 pick on an OLB and then try to sign MLB Jonathan Vilma in FA. The secondary is going to be tough to improve as neither the draft nor the FA market seems to have a lot of quality in it. A few potential FA targets include S Yeremiah Bell, and corners Chris McCallister, and Bryant McFadden. Basically, the Lions have a TON of holes to fill. It will be interesting to see how they try going about filling them. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1703 Registered: 12-2003 |
Jason Smith is a converted TE who played in Spread Offense. Andre Smith was the only OT worth #1. Don't settle for the best of a weak class. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 957 Registered: 12-2006 |
Jason Smith actually did very well at the combine. Everyone knew he was athletic because of being a former TE but he really surprised scouts with his size (6'5" 309) and his strength (finished 4th among offensive linemen and tight ends in the 225 lb bench press with 33 reps). He's considered a legit top 5 guy and some people have him listed as the #1 or #2 most talented player in the draft. My question to you is who would you take with that #1 pick? | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1704 Registered: 12-2003 |
Right now, it is Curry of Wake Forest. You already have 2 1st round tackles on your payroll. Curry not only is a talent he also fills a need. Also, if they sign a Guard in FA. That would pretty much eliminate them taking a tackle at #1. IMO (Message edited by _sj_ on February 27, 2009) | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 958 Registered: 12-2006 |
Sure you have a first round pick at left tackle, but Jeff Backus is NOT an NFL left tackle. That's why he needs to slide inside to guard. As far as Curry, sure he looks like a good prospect, but you don't draft linebackers number 1. It hasn't happened in nearly 30 years. They also don't get paid #1 pick money. Curry would be extremely overpaid for his position and signing him for the money the #1 pick signs for would make it very difficult for the lions to have the cap space to make the improvements in personnel they need to make in other positions. Also, the draft is MUCH deeper at LB than it is at OT. The Lions can still get a plus linebacker later in the draft while they likely will have a harder time finding a tackle capable of handling that left tackle spot. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1705 Registered: 12-2003 |
Backus is very much a NFL left tackle. Just not an elite one even though he gets paid like it. Overpaid? They are all overpaid since they never played a down, but no matter who they select it will have the same salary cap effect. Infact Curry will probably be the cheapest of the bunch. The Lions have a glaring need at LB not OT. Three 1st round Tackles is more than a waste than picking a LB at #1. That also assumes Backus could make the switch which is not easy. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 959 Registered: 12-2006 |
Well all I know is that Backus has been asked if he could play guard in the past month or so by Lions front office staff. Not only is Backus not an elite NFL left tackle, he's not even a good one. I still disagree with the assessment that the glaring need is at linebacker. I would put both OTs and DTs ahead of LB. The Lion's DTs last year were flat out dominated in every game. That is why the linebackers looked so bad for the Lions. When your DTs are being blown 3 yards back on every play, its impossible for your linebackers to make plays. If I were to rank the lions needs I would go like this. 1. Defensive Tackle 2. Offensive Tackle 3. Secondary (both safeties and corners) 4. Linebacker 5. Center 6. #2 Receiver to complement Calvin Johnson 7. Tight End 8. Complimentary running back to Kevin Smith | ||
Cheddar_bob Member Username: Cheddar_bob Post Number: 1832 Registered: 10-2003 |
Backus is a NFL tackle in as much as he plays tackle in the NFL. He is a very shitty tackle that couldn't block me. Andre Smith is a head case that will never amount to shit. The Lions are fucked with this #1 pick. If at all possible, I think they should trade this pick for some team's first round choice this year and their first round choice for next year. If only they had the number one overall pick last year, they could have taken Long who, in my opinion, will go down as the best OL to ever play the game. Perhaps I am biased because we both went to the same high school, but I think time will prove me right anyway. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1706 Registered: 12-2003 |
The Backus to guard thing is just spec at this point, it hasn't been discussed. If LB is not a glaring need who is going to play the position? That you even put OT over LB is just amazing. OT is about last on their list. OG would rate higher than OT. Trade isn't happening unless Stafford just blows up Pro Day and even then. They are stuck with this pick. He might, doubt he will be the Best OL ever but he should have a very good career. Of course, Long was the safe pick last year. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 960 Registered: 12-2006 |
Left tackle is the 2nd most important position in the NFL (its the second highest paid behind QBs so NFL GMs must think it is 2nd in importance). If you have an inferior player at LT like the Lions do with Backus then you absolutely have a problem. Also, the Backus to guard thing HAS been discussed. It has been discussed within the Lions front office. If you want proof, here's an article. http://www.freep.com/article/2 0090218/SPORTS01/90218062 I think the Lions will go with Jason Smith with the #1 pick | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1707 Registered: 12-2003 |
Discussed but it never went any further. Left Tackle is not considered to be important position it once was to many GMs. I don't even think Jason Smith is even in the discussion for #1. BTW, they signed Maurice Morris from the Seahawks today so #8 comes off your list. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 961 Registered: 12-2006 |
The discussion with Backus never went any further. We don't know what's going on in discussions within the front office. Where is it that you are getting that left tackles aren't considered as important? Jason Smith is DEFINITELY in the discussion. He's listed in the top 5 on most analysts big boards and sometimes at 1 or 2. | ||
Hornist9 Member Username: Hornist9 Post Number: 211 Registered: 05-2005 |
I just hope the Loins don't fuck up the picks like they've done the past 8 years. If they do, I wonder who Mayhew will blame this time? I still think the entire scouting staff should get (in the words of Jerry Green) the Ziggy. They couldn't scout a whore on Cass Avenue, let alone a decent football player or players... Wanna bet Mayhew takes a Wide out with the first pick (oh, I forgot, Millen's gone). | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 6736 Registered: 11-2004 |
Maurice Morris, Bryant Johnson and Eric King are new acquisitions and Jon Kitna has been banished to Dallas for picks. And the crazy story about how the Lions almost swung a deal for Jay Cutler from Denver is pretty insane. So the Lions aren't making big splashes via free agency just yet but then that's what an 0-16 season can do to strike up interest. But having considerable amounts of draft picks, gobs of cap room and hopefully a guy like Shack Harris in the front office can help right this sorry ship of a team that Millen buried. (Message edited by smogboy on February 28, 2009) | ||
Zephyrprocess Member Username: Zephyrprocess Post Number: 646 Registered: 08-2006 |
Hey maybe we could give | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 962 Registered: 12-2006 |
The problem with FA for the Lions is that their is NO WAY that they can convince any of the elite players to come to Detroit. Why would they? The only way to do it is if they vastly overpaid. I think the front office is doing the best they can. They are making the FA moves they can make and then getting a lot of draft picks to build through the draft. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 6747 Registered: 11-2004 |
El Jimbo- it's akin to what the Tigers did when they vastly overpaid for Pudge Rodriguez. They will have to bust open the checkbook and over pay someone to come here. And then that person has also got to produce- and therein lies the problem; football is such the team sport where one player generally can't rescue an entire team. | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 737 Registered: 11-2006 |
I'd guess the hope is that the Lions will have say 10 new players (FAs and draftees) who can play who were not on their team this past season. Generally (not sure if it is true with the Lions) but there is enough parity in the NFL that 10 new players can do the trick. | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 738 Registered: 11-2006 |
building on what el_jimbo posted, if the Lions get 8 - 10 new players this year who can play, they'll be in better shape to compete for marquee FAs in '10. This needs to be a 2-year project: Many top draftees this year + FAs. Next year: marquee FAs. (Message edited by emu steve on March 01, 2009) | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 6750 Registered: 11-2004 |
Yeah, it would be nice to see parity working the Lions way as opposed to the last few years where it's been more "parody". And while I know ANY victory this season is going to be savored, I'm still realistic and not expecting a major turn around anytime soon. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 964 Registered: 12-2006 |
Smogboy, Actually, I don't think the Tigers situation with the Pudge signing is very comparable. The issue is the salary cap in football. In baseball, the Tigers weren't "punished" for signing Pudge to a significantly bigger contract than he deserved. Without a salary cap they could still go out and bring in any other player they wanted. The NFL is different. If you overspend on a player in the NFL it REALLY eats into your salary cap. Overspending at one position creates a situation where you have to "underspend" at one or more other positions. This can be devastating to your team. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 6755 Registered: 11-2004 |
Comparing the Tigers' signing of a marquee player (Pudge came immediately after winning the World Series) to attract other players here is what I think the Lions should be trying to do. There has to be some incentive for a decent player to come to a miserable team and from the looks of it, the Lions have cleared off quite a bit of cap space to possibly over spend a WEE bit in attracting someone here. Having a marquee player coming here and doing somewhat well speaks volumes to other players who are thinking about jumping here. It would at least make other free agents think about why this player would jump to a losing team like the Lions. Obviously Pudge had enough credibility to do so and he alone sparked other FAs to look at the Tigers a little more seriously. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 965 Registered: 12-2006 |
Smogboy, Once again, the salary cap is the issue. If the only way you can get star veteran players to come is to pay more than the market rate then you simply can't afford to bring in many quality players. That "WEE bit" for each player adds up. The Lions have so many holes that they need to focus on improving across the board rather than improving significantly at one position at the detriment to another. That's why the draft is so important and why I'm excited the Lions have so many picks. If they are successful, they could dramatically improve their team in this year's draft. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 6757 Registered: 11-2004 |
$127 million is the cap space for this upcoming year. I'm not suggesting we drop tens of millions for single players for one year contracts, but you look around the league and you see the Redskins $100 million dollar contract being shelled out to Albert Haynesworth, other players take notice. Obviously a sad sack team will have to over pay in order to lure quality players but that's the appeal of free agency not just for bad teams but good players looking to cash in as well. Smart teams (and the Lions have yet to prove that) can scout out top notch reliable talent, offer them hefty contracts, have them stretch out the economic hit over multiple years, and have them contribute immediately. Obviously the amount of draft picks are going to impact our team here and they SHOULD do amazingly well in the next few years but one also has to ask where is the veteran leadership for all of these talented rookies? Who is going to take them to one side and show them a winning attitude, a solid work ethic, and change this culture of losing here? This team has no solid leadership or veteran presence nor superstar that we can point to in regards to help lead by example. Obviously we need a solid contributing draft to shore up our team but we also need to mix that in with some solid free agents. Obviously other teams have found a way to work in top notch FAs and make it work within their salary structure by extending the length of the contract or offering up bonuses of some kind. I still contend that a blend of some quality free agents and a smart draft should be the way to go; the league seems to set up parity for teams savvy enough to see this. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1708 Registered: 12-2003 |
Pudge had no other suitors and the Tigers still had to overpay. With the Lions they can make all the call in the world and if the players/agent say don't bother there is no amount of money that is going to change their mind. quote: I don't think you really understand how it all works when it comes to scouting and drafting. | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 739 Registered: 11-2006 |
Maybe I'm being naive but the NFL isn't MLB. MLB intentionally or unintentionally (some think intentionally) favors the big market teams to allow some teams virtual monopoloy on wining. (without a salary cap there is nothing to balance out the rich vs poor teams). I believe most NFL players understand that the NFL is a outhouse to penthouse back to outhouse type enterprise. A team can go through that cycle in a short period of time. Don't despair if the team is in the outhouse and don't get happy in the penthouse. It all changes quickly. Signing with the Giants isn't like signing with the NYY. Players know that. The only question is: Are the Lions the only team a player shouldn't sign with if he wants to win in say 2 years? I'll be in Vegas in a couple weeks and I DON'T have a clue who will win the next Super Bowl (any clues guys????). Guess I could put 10 teams in a hat and draw one. | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 1676 Registered: 12-2007 |
If the lions aren't smart enough to take Curry at number 1, then I am too smart to keep watching... | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 740 Registered: 11-2006 |
I'm still hoping the Lions can trade down to say #5 and pick up an extra 2nd round pick. This makes sense UNLESS the Lions are sold on the Ga QB. Lion FB isn't exciting to watch but the draft would be. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 6778 Registered: 11-2004 |
Having the number one pick isn't exactly the ideal spot at times it seems like. The pressure to pick a stud candidate with that pick has always been there but with the number one pick, it also comes with the added pressure of having to pony up all sorts of money for them as well. Couple that with the what seems like eons of losing and wanting to turn this team around, the Lions don't dare fail with this pick. There really doesn't seem to be a consensus number one pick either. At first it was looking like Smith until he showed up at the combines like he fell off the Krispy Kreme truck, none of the QBs strike anyone as guaranteed, and Lord knows drafting defense isn't sexy but I'm hoping they do snag someone on the defensive side of the ball now. | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 1683 Registered: 12-2007 |
I'm telling you...Curry...LB Best LB in the draft | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 741 Registered: 11-2006 |
what is the scoop on today's new FAs? | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 746 Registered: 11-2006 |
Looking more like it won't be Curry and maybe Jason Smith is the one. Read that maybe the Lions try for Josh Freeman. Lions could be the most improved team in '09 (no jokes about starting at ground zero and no where to go but up). | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 1731 Registered: 12-2007 |
EMU... Still...Curry... Think about Peterson at the Strong Side, Sims at the weak side...Curry in the Middle...that is a SCARY linebacking corps...SCARY | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1734 Registered: 12-2003 |
Scary but a lot of money in your LB corp. BJ Raji would now have to enter the picture I would think. Then pickup a middle linebacker at #20 | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 977 Registered: 12-2006 |
EVERYTHING now depends on what happens with the Cutler situation because who knows what draft picks the Lions will have to give up if they do end up with Cutler. As far as how it stands now, I think Curry is all but eliminated from that #1 pick. Which leaves it now down to Raji, Stafford, or Smith. In my opinion, however, I think QB is the least of the concerns at this moment. I think the three key needs that will be addressed with the first 3 picks the Lions have are (in no particular order) DT, OT, and MLB. I think these are the potential candidates at each draft spot for those positions. #1 OT Jason Smith DT BJ Raji MLB Aaron Curry #20 OT Michael Oher OT Eben Britton OT Andre Smith DT Peria Jerry DT Evander Hood MLB Ray Maualuga MLB James Laurinaitis #33 OT Eben Britton DT Ron Brace MLB James Laurinaitis C Alex Mack (Not one of the positions listed but he's a quality player who would be a BIG improvement over Raiola) | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 749 Registered: 11-2006 |
T.J. Lang is a draft riser from EMU. He played left OT in college but is projected to play G in the NFL. He is now projected somewhere around 3rd round and would be a solid pick if DET doesn't move their LT inside. Lang is a Detroit area kid and I'd like to see him play on a rising Lions team. |
