  1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 32 Registered: 08-2008 |
Mortalman, you need to go to www.goodfelloweb.com and check out the Tribes of the Cass Corridor. It's a treasure trove of memories from those days. It has Shadowfax and Bobby MacDonald written all over it, as well as much of the other great cultural happenings of that place and era. Yes, you're correct that the Cass Cooridor/WSU and Gar Wood crowds overlapped frequently. You do need to tell us more of your stories because, obviously you were in the thick of things back then. Also, I think I knew 'Moose' from the Vernor/Lawndale area back in the 60's/70's. Maybe the Park Place or Bob's Bar on Lawndale? 1KD | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 33 Registered: 08-2008 |
That's so funny Old_guy. They were an odd couple in terms of size. She was very sweet and he was a critter. Not always an entirely likeable critter. Critter, to me is mostly an affectionate term. I say, not always, with reservation because Breeze never really did anything to harm me except once at Otis Spann (Ann Arbor Blues & Jazz Fest site for the uninitiated) Memorial Field. My brother and I bumped into him early in the morning as a free concert was starting. The temps and humidity were already sky high. He handed us an ice cold bottle of Spanada and we were glad to indulge. He didn't warn us in any way how much acid was in that bottle. It was ASTRONOMICAL, ASTRONOMICAL. Needless to say, five minutes after he split, we were in a different galaxy. I thought it was lousy not to warn me, particularly because of my (much younger) brother. It posed a very dangerous situation. Mutual friends told me that Breeze did that to a number of people intentionally. I'll finish that story later. A few months later I bumped into him in up north and we hung out. I told him of our almost mis-fortune. He laughed about it. Not a nervous, I'm sorry laugh, but a kind of 'fuck you' laugh. I let him know how I felt and dropped it. Enough said with him. I had too many good times with Breeze and all's well that ends well. He and Linda split many years ago. I used to see Linda's sisters frequently and I saw Breeze's brother Tom a few times. I talked much longer than planned so I'll relate my return to the 'end of times' party at the Gar Wood soon. 1KD | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 1783 Registered: 07-2007 |
I remember Shadowfax up and coming band with no big hit. My older sibs said they went there to party in the early 70's but everyone was like cool and had a good time and they didn't F up the place. Wood is still a name in detroit that are realted cousins, It's in the genes. I'm still pissed that the architectural gem wasn't restored. Coulda shoulda woulda. My mom told me that the fisher mansion was a place during prohibition that they would drive boats into the boat dock inside, maybe a Gar Wood runner? and then what would happen is that they would lower the water inside, then they would drop off the kegs of liquor into the pool inside. Then they would take the kegs and bring them inside a passage into the house. Then, they would let the Detroit river water fill up the water in the boathouse like nothing happened. Sweet eh. But this supposedly never happened so I don't know nothing about it ok. Lefty2. | ||
John_collier Member Username: John_collier Post Number: 1 Registered: 08-2008 |
Garwood was my life for some years of my life. I have had my times at the Garwood. I am a photojournalist and I spent my time documenting the events of the Garwood. The book came out great. It represents years of work and was an artistic achievement. Nobody has ever been able to spend any money for it. | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 35 Registered: 08-2008 |
Is this the John Collier of huge fame/infamy on Detroityes? I've been hearing of you for years. Old-guy will be ecstatic to hear of you surfacing again. If you were a frequenter or resident of the house, we've crossed paths many times if not hung out and partied together. I'd like a copy of the book immediately, if not sooner. We have to manage the transaction off line. I'm not sure how to go about that. Suggestions? Could I have an intermediary and/or the library acquire a personal copy for me? If you're comfortable with it, I could send you a check or MO and after it cashed, you could send me the book. Let me know. I'd love to meet you and talk. Thanks and it's good to hear from you. 1KD | ||
65memories Member Username: 65memories Post Number: 612 Registered: 10-2003 |
John...as you must know if you've read these posts, people have been searching for you since you are a connection to info about the Garwood and can share many stories. Please elaborate about your book. Are you still with a newspaper? | ||
Old_guy Member Username: Old_guy Post Number: 14 Registered: 04-2008 |
John, this is amazing. When you say that nobody has ever been able to spend any money for it, do you mean to purchase copies of it, or to publish it? | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 38 Registered: 08-2008 |
I was headed out of town for an extended trip. My friends and I decided to go to the Gar Wood for a farewell. I borrowed a classic Oldsmobile from a friend and we drove to Greyhaven. We pulled into the estate and there was electricity in the air. Not long after our arrival people started showing up by the droves, walking, riding, hitching, driving - by any means. My friends in the house said "we're throwing a going away party for you". I knew they were funning me but it was a nice attempt on their part. Parties didn't get thrown at the Gar Wood, they happened. Anytime - all the time. So we had a huge party of it. There were hundreds of people there. So many in fact, it was decided to close the gates and stop allowing entry to anyone else. Certainly not the first time that had happened and certainly not the first time people got in despite our best efforts. I left soon thereafter to hitch out west - California, Oregon, Washington and British Columbia. I think I visited Breeze and Linda in Cardif CA on this trip. Months later, when I returned to Detroit, my girl and I drove out to the house (in another really cool, customized Cutlass)and pulled into the driveway. This girl had never been to the Gar Wood. I sensed a problem and I told her so. Bikes were everywhere. I can't remember exactly how many but probably dozens. The reason I stayed was because we saw not one soul near the house. They were all at a huge bonfire out on the point, partying wildly in the night. We walked stealthily into the house via the front stairway. I felt like crying - the ballroom was a shambles, broken furniture, glass and excrement everywhere. I don't remember seeing one person in the house, but it was a gigantic mess. We walked around various parts of the house. Stone rails surrounding the house were toppled. It was so sad. Finally, I said: "we've got to get out of here'. She wanted to stay and explore. I was worried about her and her car. Plus, I couldn't believe I was seeing the demise of the house. Later she said to me: "when we pulled in the drive you kept saying oh no, oh no, I think the bikers have taken over, oh, no. There was a great sadness in your eyes and your voice". We left, half hastily and half reluctantly. I was one devastated person. Breeze must have returned from CA in the meantime if he was with you(Old_guy)for the last stand. It's hard for me to relate this because it isn't a fun memory. I had great times at the Gar Wood and I'd always hoped it would somehow, someway be spared the wreckers ball and might be restored. It's fate mirrored hundreds, if not thousands of other great buildings and places of Detroit. Old-guy, I mentioned the cars for two reasons: 1.Residents (maybe you) would kid me about the cool cars I drove. I didn't even own an auto at the time and more often than not, hitched to the house. 2.I was concerned my girl's car might catch the bikers attention putting us in greater danger. 1KD | ||
John_collier Member Username: John_collier Post Number: 2 Registered: 08-2008 |
I mean that nobody has offered a chance to publish it. I had made copy negs. of the book so I could hand publish the pages- takes a while and I dont do nothing for free anymore. Ever since the strike of the newspapers I am embitered about doing any work for free. I could make hand copies but they will cost. I kept up with some people--I know Eugene Skutatovich went to Calf with Larry Merriman and that didnt work out well--he ended up marrying a nurse. Gary I saw at the Fed Bldg- he was a guard in the 70s --Fergie no work, Bushmark like a lot of people was from Rockford Ill. Natalie Morgan was a delight I heard she was in the south-the only real success in the group was either Arlie or Adrian her sister-children of David and Roseland of New Orleeans fame. I miss the place-its flatened and bulldozered over. I thought it might be fun to take a metal detector there but whats the point besides the neighbor hood has gone to hell and a handbasket. I found poetry in the photos I made and would love to see them have some life again. When I met George Paparde in the 70s I made an all out effort to try to get the thing published-it is a great document of a time not just a place --no luck -seems the comerical gods of the time had other interests. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 1830 Registered: 07-2007 |
John, What about scanning the pages into a computer via Adobe Acrobat format. You could probably do it free somewhere, just takes time. Then sell it online to download for whatever. I know Arcadia Publishing has a lot of Detroit books. I'm sure you know all this. | ||
Mortalman Member Username: Mortalman Post Number: 102 Registered: 03-2007 |
Unfortunately, images of any sort these days have no copyright or otherwise protection because even if you sell some of the hard copy images someone can scan them and distribute them on the internet or otherwise. | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 459 Registered: 07-2006 |
Mortalman, it is not true that images have no protection. They certainly do have protection. The problem is that if you published with a small-time publisher, they are not likely to have the money to spend on a lawyer to threaten to sue people who copy the photos. | ||
Mortalman Member Username: Mortalman Post Number: 103 Registered: 03-2007 |
Cman710, I know that legally images are protected by law but as a practical matter you can't stop people from distributing those images in all kinds of ways that you're not even aware of. That happened to me that a well known long standing, venerable Jazz Club in Detroit had distributed my images of classical Jazz musicians I had photographed in the late 1950s, 60s and 70s. It happened that one day someone I didn't know sent me an email paying me a compliment on the images and that when I found out it was taking place the horse was already out of the barn so to speak. I did find out from the person that sent me the email compliment who and how she received it. She gave me information until she figured out that I was the photographer and I was collecting information how this had all happened. When I looked at the distribution list there were over 200 people that the images had gone to literally all over the world. And, as you said the legal fees were prohibitive! But, I'm not done with it yet so I hope you are right. | ||
Ragtoplover59 Member Username: Ragtoplover59 Post Number: 314 Registered: 09-2006 |
Most fun I've had reading a thread in a long time! I also hope the book will be published someday. Love to more pics of the area in years past? This is headed to HOF I'm sure! | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 460 Registered: 07-2006 |
Hi Mortalman: I am sorry to hear about what happened to your photos. That was wrong, and I am glad you are pursuing it. I hope you have some success, though I know that getting back compensation can be difficult (if the Jazz Club made money off the photos, that would make it easier since damages are more clear). I would be interested to know whether you can recover. Unfortunately, in the web age, I think that most people often assume that they can take whatever images they would like, and do with them whatever they like. In the past year or so, I have become interested in photography, and do not think I have produced anything yet worth stealing, but that fear does cause me concern in terms of sharing my images online. If there is anywhere to legally see your images, I would be interested. | ||
Mortalman Member Username: Mortalman Post Number: 105 Registered: 03-2007 |
I think there are ways to protect images with software that encrypts the author's name in the file name. There are also ways to copyright photos officially through the U.S. Government offices. The problem comes in the enforcing of your legal rights and if you don't have deep pockets or the publisher doesn't have deep pockets and the inclination to protect your rights its as if you don't have protection. I hear about "the rule of law" all the time which is great. But, the system can be worked so easily by people that have nothing but larceny in their hearts that its "what's the use!" I'm going to research more closely the use of software and you go about copyrighting images. The system might be flimsy and can easily be played but its all we have so we have to do what we can to protect ourselves. Even though Detroit is my 1st love I have found the photographers on the Houston website to be very helpful in guiding me in all kinds of questions I have related to photography without all the sniping I see and experience on this site. They have a whole section on architectural photography. Check it out sometime: http://www.houstonarchitecture .info/haif/index.php | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 40 Registered: 08-2008 |
Thanks to all of you (Old_, Mortal, Cman, Ragto, Lefty, 65mem, John, et al) for posting. We have our memories and our problems and we share them here. I'm glad to hear from and talk to all of you. Collier, if there's some way I can assist in getting you published, I'd be glad. Your memories and writing skills are critical in telling these stories. I'll talk more later. 1KD | ||
Old_guy Member Username: Old_guy Post Number: 15 Registered: 04-2008 |
Trust me, I edit/publish a small town newspaper and own several web sites. It's extremely possible to steal any image off the web. You can stop people from doing it, but in the end, you'll just be lining some lawyers pockets. John, from the photos I remember, you are correct, they were an incredible documentation of a point in time. If they can't be published into a book it would be a great loss for everyone. I'm sure there's some sort of solution. As far as not wanting to do anything for free, I don't blame you a bit on that one. If you don't mind me asking, how many pages would you be talking about? 1KD, that's a sad story. I'm glad I never saw the mansion after that happened. That had to have been heartbreaking. | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 1431 Registered: 11-2006 |
this thread is what DetroitYes is all about for me. Awesome that you are all connecting and I get to enjoy your stories. Thank you. | ||
Mortalman Member Username: Mortalman Post Number: 106 Registered: 03-2007 |
I was there the night the Steinway was smashed up and burned in the fireplace. As I said I was riding with the Outlaws as an initiate and the Outlaws were having their national convention. The word went out about this mansion in Detroit called the Garwood mansion and we were invited to have our convention there so how could we say no. Some of our people knew about Garwood and his racing exploits which fit in pretty well with one of our interests – RACING – live fast, die young and have a good looking corpse. So, we converged on Detroit which was my original home on the eastside and had the time of our life with all the freaks, bikers, wannabes and chicks – it was like 1%er heaven – booze, broads, drugs and brotherhood. It just didn’t get any better than that! I was kind of turned off by the shit that was going on inside of that pad especially to that BIG Steinway. As a matter of fact I took my old lady that was riding with me at the time – a real good broad by the name of Dallas – and we went out and found a place to get high and fuck our brains out. It was too bad after I went back into the Corps we stayed in touch while I was in Nam again and then I stopped hearing from her and one of my riding brothers “Mad Dog” McEvoy, the best wrench I’ve ever known, wrote me and told me that Dallas went down with another brother named “Howling Wolf” Bowman that was at the Garwood that night, too, went down on a run to Chicago and they were both killed by a four wheeler out on I-94 just outside of Chi Town. RIP bro and sister. It’s kind of freaky running into people on this forum that were there that day and night so many years ago. But, those days are gone and we've got new ones with different interests and directions but with our faces still in the sun with the breeze at our backs! | ||
Old_guy Member Username: Old_guy Post Number: 16 Registered: 04-2008 |
By the way mortalman, the biker I had the spitting conflict with was a guy named dynamite. I think from a Florida chapter. | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 45 Registered: 08-2008 |
So guys, help me out here. Do you remember the night of the big bonfire? Or were there many nights like that? How about the month and year? I know it had to be the end or very near so. I never saw the Gar Wood occupied again after that night I described here. I went there frequently, by boat and car, to see the remains of the house. I have photos of the boathouse remains after the house burned down. I have a clear memory of the night the house burned(struck by lightning), though I wasn't there in person. You might say I watched 'from afar'. 1KD | ||
Mortalman Member Username: Mortalman Post Number: 107 Registered: 03-2007 |
Old_guy, I thought the guy's name was "Moose" Hymes but that was a long time ago. Gives new meaning to, "hot as a bucket of hot spit." You probably did the only thing that saved your ass that night by spitting in his face. I've got to give it to you that was fast thinking! Talk about brotherhood -- you and him became brothers on the spot and now days the tree huggers call it bonding. Reminds me of a time when I was in the Riverside County jail in the early to mid '60s. There was a real bad dude in our cell that was the badest man in the place. Everybody was afraid of him and 2 new guys came into the cell. One of them had a bad lisp so when you talked to him and he was done talking he always sounded like he was sneering at you. Well, he did that with that bad ass and the guy gave him a double take when he said something to him and everybody thought he'd kill the poor devil. He got a BIG grin on his face, put his arm around the guy, gave him a brother hand shake and said, “Hey, I like a guy that doesn’t give a shit who I am and gives it back to me the same way I gave it to him.” From then on they were pals and the bad ass looked out for him. It’s funny how alliances are formed between people. | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 47 Registered: 08-2008 |
Mortalman, did you check out the Tribes of the Cass Corridor website? I'm curious if you made any connections with it. For my experiences the Tribes captures so much of what was happening in those days in Detroit. And I was just a peripheral player in that scene. 1KD | ||
Mortalman Member Username: Mortalman Post Number: 108 Registered: 03-2007 |
Thanks 1KD, I did check it out the Tribes and saw lots of people I knew over the years many I haven't seen or heard from in more years than I can count. Sadly many of these fine men and women are gone now. I even found references to myself on the site. I'll be digging into it more as time goes by. It's hard to believe that 40+ years have gone by so quickly. On the other hand sometimes it seemed like it never moved fast enough. I guess that's the way it is with time. I have been having these kinds of reunions virtual and actual over the past couple of years and it's kind of _______. You fill it in. One of the funniest encounters I had was with a woman I had a romantic interest in many moons ago and we were joking about how much time has gone by and how we have all changed. Jokingly I said, "Geez Princess I looked at pictures I have of you back in the day, "now you look like my older sister." Not to be outdone she shot back when you walked in I thought you were your father! We both had a good laugh and said that those were good times but we wouldn't want to go back one day and couldn't believe we had lived through everything we had done. I have a great story about her and I in Africa but I don't want to take up all the Gar Wood thread up with my war stories. | ||
Det313grrl Member Username: Det313grrl Post Number: 314 Registered: 01-2005 |
Hey John Collier, Sharon Newton here. Have you seen or spoken with Victor lately? It was wild seeing the two of you walk into Tom's Oyster Bar. This thread has brought tears to my eyes. I think it's way cool that the Garwood has a myspace and that Stonefront has a website. | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 49 Registered: 08-2008 |
So what ever happened to???? These are eternal questions. I'll throw out Ronna Rittner. She was from SCS. Very, very cool lady who drove a white, extended, Ford window van? She hung and partied at the house frequently. Larry McEachern? Or was it Skip McEachern? I might be mixing up the two names. One of them might be the guy in the picture, someplace on this website, maybe the HOF, that was posted by a woman, I believe, earlier this year. Was he the same guy who had the old 'Limey' autos in the garage and driveway he was ostensibly working on and restoring but seemed to be accomplishing very little of either. I'm not making fun of him because my memory may be incorrect. Heaven knows I wasn't doing a whole hell of a lot of constructive anything at that particular time. He let me use his metric tools to work on mine and my friends bikes. Then we had 'Sam', the guy from Stonefront that started and tinkered with the organ frequently. He's in a Stonefront picture here or the other website, playing a guitar to Larry's right in the ballroom. Do you guys remember Josephine, Wendy or Claudia? They were all my buddies, girls, pals(depending upon the time and circumstances), that I introduced to the house. Do you remember any of the CMU'ers that Breeze and I knew from Mt.Pleasant? 1KD | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 50 Registered: 08-2008 |
The guy I spoke of in my previous post is in one of a series of photos by Ruth Hoffman posted by Loeb in January of 2008. 1KD | ||
Sumas Member Username: Sumas Post Number: 229 Registered: 01-2008 |
I don't mean to be bitchy but the spelling for the private drive is Keelson. | ||
Old_guy Member Username: Old_guy Post Number: 17 Registered: 04-2008 |
I do remember Ruth. I believe she also worked on repairing the organ and partied at the house quite a bit. She was the only person from the Garwood that I was able to make contact with via e-mail for several years. I'm going to try to find her e-mail address and tell her about this thread. The last time I talked to her she was in southern cal. |
