  Nipsey Member Username: Nipsey Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2007 |
Here's an excerpt from an article on the new creperie, "Le Petit Zinc" in Corktown. The owner had opened two restaurants in New York before and is surprised at how difficult it is to do the same in Detroit. Part of the problem on why more businesses don't open in this city. http://www.freep.com/article/2 0090219/COL20/902190411/1041/E NT08/Le+Petit+Zinc+is+a+casual +delight++Puck+pares+prices+in +MGM+Grand Le Petit Zinc is a casual delight; Puck pares prices in MGM Grand BY SYLVIA RECTOR • FREE PRESS RESTAURANT CRITIC • February 19, 2009 [Open only a few weeks, it's the creation of Charles Sorel (pronounced so-RELL), 40. Born in Martinique, raised in Paris and transplanted to New York, he opened two successful restaurants in Brooklyn when it was regentrifying in the late '90s.] ... [Sorel hopes to obtain a liquor license. It will cost him about $30,000, he says, compared with $1,000 in Brooklyn. He finds it mystifying that, in a city so in need of new investment, almost everything about opening a business takes longer and costs more than in New York.] | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5318 Registered: 06-2004 |
The minimum initial state fee for a Michigan liquor license is $20,000. When not in a certified, established re-development area the outlay required is much higher. For comparison Wisconsin has a license that starts at $10,000 state fee plus city fees added. Pennsylvania has a quota system so an existing license must be purchased from its holder - anywhere from $5,000 to $400,000 depending upon location and type of license. Ohio, Indiana, and Kentucky have similar market rate situations depending upon location and license type (there's currently a bowling alley for sale in Cleveland listing its license value at $125,000 and I saw $130,000 quoted as typical for Indiana). Here's the State of New York's fee schedule - what was he getting in Brooklyn for $1,000? Seasonal or beer & wine only? (Message edited by lilpup on February 22, 2009) | ||
Rooms222 Member Username: Rooms222 Post Number: 175 Registered: 04-2005 |
He had a beer/wine only in Brooklyn...... http://nymag.com/listings/rest aurant/restaurant-sorrel/ It has been really noteworthy to me that the beer/wine is really common in NYC. Even Corner Stores that sell hot food often have a beer and wine license and a small seating area which creates a instant bar and restaurant inside the store. (Message edited by rooms222 on February 22, 2009) | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 9052 Registered: 12-2003 |
It isn't about the costs only...the followup statement after that on license costs says EVERYTHING takes longer and also costs more. This is a very important time for this article to come out...as we are re-shaping local government...one corrupt established bozo-the-city-official at a time. Get these important opening-business troubles up on the table and keep them part of the discussion. People WANT to open businesses...those who RUN them don't want to be snucker-hit with some usury 'personal property' tax on stuff they already own and decide to decorate their joint with, annually. (another unbelievably bad anti-business Detroit law I recently became aware of). Yeah, kudos to this couple...although they make it tough with those hours. At least they'll have parking. I predict success...too fresh to not become a weekly part of some food-lover's luncheon plans, and along with Mudgies and Baile Corcaigh and Slows another great reason to think Corktown when you get hungry! | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3804 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: I suspect that NY separates beer and wine licenses from hard liquor licenses, but I don't think it's the same in Michigan. In Michigan it's common to see hard liquor being sold in stores right next to beer, but in NY you can usually only buy beer and wine from most stores, and you have to go to an actual liquor store to buy hard liquor. | ||
Parkguy Member Username: Parkguy Post Number: 362 Registered: 04-2007 |
I was really interesested when I read the article last week. We hear a lot of comments along the lines of "nobody wants to open a business in Detroit," or "the city makes it hard to open a business," and so on. But this article is one of the few that actually gives specifics from an entrepreneur's viewpoint. I'd love to get a list of specific things that can be changed to make the business climate in the city better. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 9053 Registered: 12-2003 |
Kym Worthy, her team, and the Feds are doing a decent job removing the top 10 to 30 percent of the problem. If they nail Ferguson as well, at least one bad major contractor will be removed from the game, too. One less chance for an investor to get ripped off. Saw one of his trucks on Grand River the other day, driven by two white guys (I had a deep gut-laugh at the irony), looking JUST like one of those retired, old Water & Sewer Department vans. I wonder what THAT city-property sales deal looked like and how many bidders were on it. | ||
Detroitchef Member Username: Detroitchef Post Number: 115 Registered: 09-2008 |
In MI, there is a class called a 'tavern' license. Beer and wine only by-the-glass and no hard liquor sales. Not too many of them, however, the state likes to get their cut off the Class C licenses. The problem is, that in MI you not only have to apply to the LCC, most larger municipalities have their own Liquor Committee whose approval is needed to finalize the license. The Plymouth one held up their approval of one applicant, for several months on the specious reasoning that his landlord, whose property they were leasing, owed the city a lot of back water and tax bills. Plus, if you are transferring an existing license to a new owner, the previous guy has to clear up leins against the business before the LCC will allow the transfer. That's months of screwing around, waiting. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 9054 Registered: 12-2003 |
As soon as we establish who was at that meeting with Kwhyme at Cobo Hall, in the last days, we'll be able to root out the bad apples within the bureaucracy, too. Either way, those few probable collaborative obstructionists in the Building and Health Departments, and those even in Council who ever bring up race while some item is being discussed in front of them...all must grow or go! I'm all for just canning them in favor of new and eager blood, but don't want to broom any good folks who just made bad choices to keep their cozy, city jobs! Lotsa people were dazzled by Kwhyme. | ||
Rooms222 Member Username: Rooms222 Post Number: 176 Registered: 04-2005 |
>>>>I suspect that NY separates beer and wine licenses from hard liquor licenses, but I don't think it's the same in Michigan. Yes, exactly. In NYC, drinking beer and wine in public does not seem like an illicit act. It is still illegal on the subway, but legal on the trains. There is a good and a bad side to this in that there are more people out on weekends and more of a civic life. The downside is that youth drinking is more out in the open and perhaps more widespread. Also, there is more direct contact with drunks in public of all kinds (usually in the late evening Friday and Sat night). The drunks are often doing annoying or unpleasant things. Sometimes they are harmful or threatening. | ||
Detroitchef Member Username: Detroitchef Post Number: 116 Registered: 09-2008 |
Rooms, are you talking about drunks on the street, or on DYes? | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 1261 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote:In Detroit, drinking in public is legal as long as you keep the bottle in a paper bag and smash it on the sidewalk when you're done. | ||
Rugbyman Member Username: Rugbyman Post Number: 352 Registered: 06-2005 |
^ Made me laugh harder than I have in a long time. | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 595 Registered: 07-2006 |
It may be true that at times in NYC people drink on the streets. However, that is only because of lack of enforcement. In New York City, there is a law against open containers on the street and the subway. The only places I know if in which one can get beer in a somewhat "public" form of transportation is the Staten Island Ferry and Amtrak (which also sells wine). So NYC has lots of brown bagged bottles, too. | ||
Jiminnm Member Username: Jiminnm Post Number: 1736 Registered: 02-2005 |
This conversation needs to be over in the Detroit's Biggest Issue Today thread. How can there be any substantive economic development if the city makes it so difficult for it to happen? | ||
Eastsideal Member Username: Eastsideal Post Number: 336 Registered: 10-2007 |
NYC is kind of strange when it comes to alcohol. One of the jobs I had when I lived there had to do with the issuing of liquor licenses in neighborhoods. For retail sales, stores can sell beer pretty much 24/7. Liquor AND wine though (except low alcohol and some special in-state wines) can only be sold in liquor stores, which have to close before 11 PM and were closed on Sundays by law until a couple of years ago. Liquor store licenses are limited by county, and chain liquor stores are not allowed. There is now a move to allow wine sales in supermarkets, but the liquor store and distributors lobbies are trying very hard to stop it. For restaurants, licenses allowing beer and wine sales are very easy and inexpensive to get. Even most diners and many pizza slice joints in the city serve beer. Liquor licenses though are much more expensive and more difficult to obtain. The licensing laws are very complex, and lot of exceptions are grandfathered in, but basically liquor licenses are limited by county and municipality and most new places will have to buy a license from someone who is willing to sell it. Drinking in public has always been illegal in NYC, but this was pretty much unenforced until the Giuliani years. I used to hang out with friends in Central Park with a beer or two or a bottle of wine, now that will get you a very expensive ticket so fast your head would spin. Even wedding parties with champagne have been ticketed. Drinking alcohol on the subways will get you arrested if the cops catch you. However, suburban commuter trains and Amtrak, which are not under the city's jurisdiction, still allow beer and wine drinking onboard (you can buy beers from stands right in the station). | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3805 Registered: 04-2006 |
^Some supermarkets in NYC sell wine now. Whole Foods sells wine in the store, and Trader Joe's operates a separate wine shop next to their store near Union Square. The grocery store near my apartment also has a small selection of wine. It's a little ironic to me that these east coast states view the midwest as so conservative, but some have liquor sales laws that would be considered outrageous in Michigan. | ||
Eastsideal Member Username: Eastsideal Post Number: 339 Registered: 10-2007 |
I dealt with the Whole Foods situation, which was a big hassle. The Whole Foods management on the west coast just couldn't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that the State and City of New York just weren't going to fall all over themselves to change the law or make exceptions for them. Whole Foods even built a whole wine store under the Houston St. store that's still, as far as I know, unused. The long and short of the story is that the State still only permits one liquor license per licensee, so Whole Foods and TJs can only operate one full-line liquor/wine store, and then only if it's physically separated from the main body of the store. Michigan actually had pretty restrictive liquor laws until relatively recent times. One aspect of Michigan law was that the state severely restricted the types and brands of liquors that could be sold in the state and fixed their prices. Liquor stores and bars were closed on Sundays into the early '70s, and many communities like East Lansing or much of Oakland County were dry. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3810 Registered: 04-2006 |
Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws? | ||
Rooms222 Member Username: Rooms222 Post Number: 182 Registered: 04-2005 |
>>>>The long and short of the story is that the State still only permits one liquor license per licensee, so Whole Foods and TJs can only operate one full-line liquor/wine store, and then only if it's physically separated from the main body of the store. Wow, that is exactly how Stew Leonard's one NY location in Yonkers is set up (beer in the main area, liquor and wine in a segregated area (like the Meijers in Taylor)..... If you are ever in the area, this store is like Trader Joe's and a maze all rolled into one. If you like gourmet foods at reasonable prices, this is the place for you....Wonder what they will do it they ever decide to add another NY location. |
