  Dcmorrison12 Member Username: Dcmorrison12 Post Number: 38 Registered: 02-2009 |
I've thought of a great idea! You know, Detroit isn't the only place where doom and gloom can occur, it's suburbs have it's fair share too. I'm an urbanite, so don some light on the subject for me! | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 1102 Registered: 07-2007 |
It depends on where you are in the suburbs. Many of the inner ring suburbs are suffering from the same problems that affect Detroit. Further out, the lack of development and falling property values are hurting those communities that were riding the wave of growth for the past 15 years. Even places like West Bloomfield are seeing revenues decline and government having to cut back even as the need for services increase. Problems that are hitting the inner suburbs would be: + Infrastructure costs of all the old roads and sewers that need to be replaced. + Costs for government employees in retirement or for when they retire. i.e. pensions and health care. + Obsolete buildings and costs to redevelop or modernize those buildings. Southfield has a lot of office space that's outdated and sits on property that's too small to develop into a modern office complex. Assembling property can be expensive and difficult. + Schools that are less desirable than what is offered in the higher end suburban communities. (Message edited by Novine on February 18, 2009) | ||
Roq Member Username: Roq Post Number: 9 Registered: 02-2009 |
quote: I've thought of a great idea! Well, where is it? | ||
Stosh Member Username: Stosh Post Number: 35 Registered: 01-2009 |
Problems that are hitting the inner suburbs would be: quote: That's a problem everywhere now, the newer suburbs are paying significantly higher water rates anyway. I think that the road problems are everywhere now as well, arent they? {+ Costs for government employees in retirement or for when they retire. i.e. pensions and health care.} That is an issue that is everywhere as well. A lot of the "outer" ring suburbs also were incorporated in the 60's and 70's, if not being cities and villages before that. Some cities have changed pension rules (no defined plans) and benefits to save costs. quote: That is true in Southfield, as well in other cities farther out. There's a glut of office space everywhere. Also mall space as well, and retail. quote: Please define less desirable please. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 5771 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Cost of water is not based on infrastrcuture as much as it is other factors, one of which is distance from the source. People should have known that. quote: Primary roads and freeways that are older, yes. The problem is that many newer communities have newer roads (subsidized by everyone in the state) and the upkeep is not as much of a local burden than in older communities. {+ Costs for government employees in retirement or for when they retire. i.e. pensions and health care.} That is an issue that is everywhere as well. A lot of the "outer" ring suburbs also were incorporated in the 60's and 70's, if not being cities and villages before that. Some cities have changed pension rules (no defined plans) and benefits to save costs.} | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1814 Registered: 12-2006 |
Here's a real specific one, common to many communities. If your community has a combined sewer system - that is, the storm water and household waste water all travel into the same pipe, leading to the sewage treatment plant - you will eventually have to pay to separate the two into separate systems, with storm water no longer going to treatment plants. That is going to cost a flaming bucketload of money that nobody has. Some cities have started the process, other cities have separated systems already. But there will come a day when everyone will have to do it. | ||
Retroit Member Username: Retroit Post Number: 978 Registered: 04-2008 |
Light Rail | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5288 Registered: 06-2004 |
Prof, I don't know how much of that is left in Oakland and Macomb since a lot of stuff there is newer builds, but Wayne County has already completed a lot of their separation. A massive project has been underway for sometime along Hines Park and Dearborn is the last to come online. That's what that construction has been for the last couple of years by the Southfield service drive next to Greenfield Village. | ||
English Member Username: English Post Number: 448 Registered: 10-2003 |
There are problems in the suburbs? Silly me, I thought they were utopia!  That's not all sarcasm, BTW. After 6 years of teaching in Detroit, when I moved out of the city for graduate school and started teaching outside the city, I think initially I expected it to be Utopia. My assessment? In my experience, Detroit has more problems, but suburbanites freak out over problems that Detroiters have learned to shrug off. Which means that according to American standards, Detroiters are worse off, but in the evolutionary history of Homo sapiens sapiens, the jury is still out. :D | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 789 Registered: 11-2003 |
Problems in the suburbs: Low car insurance premiums Quiet nights Honest public servents Garbage gets cleaned up No blight Good schools Police respond quickly Neighbors maintain their property Wait a second, I hate Harlow (Message edited by rjlj on February 18, 2009) | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 570 Registered: 06-2004 |
I'm worried that Birminghm is getting into serious trouble. The number of stores closing downtown has risen alarmingly. | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 2292 Registered: 03-2008 |
Detroit at least is beginning to realize it has a problem. Our suburbs are in denial and like to deflect. Detroit compares itself to other cities (it's okay if it's a problem in other cities), and the suburbs compares themselves to Detroit (it's okay so long as Detroit is doing worse). Neither one really makes the problems go away, and have a serious lack of vision of how much better things really could be. | ||
Chuckles Member Username: Chuckles Post Number: 236 Registered: 02-2007 |
IMO...our suburbs are somewhat reliant or interconnected on Detroit for Water, Electricty, Sewage....at least I think this is so... regards | ||
Alsodave Member Username: Alsodave Post Number: 717 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: I disagree. Hard choices are already being made with school closings/consolidations (within districts--let's save district consolidation for another thread!). Many cities are sharing essential services (police, fire) and at least two cities (Farmington and Farmington Hills) are looking at merging (Farmington Heights, anyone?). If we're going to generalize comparisons, then Ferndale compares itself to Royal Oak, which compares itself to Birmingham. I can't say if Pleasant Ridge compares itself to Franklin... | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3791 Registered: 04-2006 |
Well, one problem that the suburbs will have is that there will be a lot of empty retail space after the demise of Circuit City, Linens N Things, KB Toys, and others that are sure to follow. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 3692 Registered: 06-2008 |
Its funny how when someone starts a thread that promotes the suburbs in some way, many posters will respond with comments about how this is 'DetroitYes', not 'Sterling HeightsYes' or whatever (despite the fact that this is a regional board). Yet when someone starts a thread about what is WRONG with the suburbs, none of you seem to have any objection. And here I thought Detroiters were vehemently opposed to double standards....sheesh | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 1105 Registered: 07-2007 |
"at least two cities (Farmington and Farmington Hills) are looking at merging (Farmington Heights, anyone?)." That's not happening. It was shot down by Farmington and now Farmington Hills is looking at the cost of the services that they do share and asking if Farmington residents are paying their fair share. | ||
Detmsp Member Username: Detmsp Post Number: 71 Registered: 08-2008 |
rjlj, was that harlow comment a david cross reference? answer your telephone! | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 5775 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: The difference is that barring a couple posts most address the question without resorting to comments like 'Suburbs suck', 'suburbanites are all ignorant thugs", etc, etc. You also missed a key difference between the question is issues facing the suburbs, not what is wrong with the suburbs. Quite a difference between those two. To compare the discussion on this thread to the mindless' Detroit is a shithole' comments that come up so often is absurd. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 5776 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: I don't believe that there is any dependance on Detroit for electricity. DTE is HQ'ed in Detroit but the city has no role in the delivery of electricity outside of the city. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3794 Registered: 04-2006 |
>Jt1 He baited you into giving him a reason to continue whining. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 3696 Registered: 06-2008 |
"To compare the discussion on this thread to the mindless' Detroit is a shithole' comments that come up so often is absurd." Um, I didn't make that comparison, chief...you did. MY comparison pertained to the difference in the attitudes of many DY posters regarding the appropriateness of threads that highlight the suburbs attributes versus the appropriateness threads that highlight the suburbs' shortcomings. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 5777 Registered: 10-2003 |
/quote{MY comparison pertained to the difference in the attitudes of many DY posters regarding the appropriateness of threads that highlight the suburbs attributes versus the appropriateness threads that highlight the suburbs' shortcomings.} If that was your intent it cretainly was not what you stated. Many DY posters discuss the shortcomings and issues in the city just as they ar discussing them here. You are struggling with the difference between discussing issues and pointless criticizing (which is done about the burbs on DY but hasn't happened been the basis of this thread). | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 3698 Registered: 06-2008 |
It's absolutely what I stated, and nobody else seems to have misunderstood it that way except you. My post has nothing to do with pointless criticizing of either Detroit or the suburbs. You made a mistake...no biggie. Just say "my bad" and move on. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 5778 Registered: 10-2003 |
Incorrect. People most likely did not respond because you have posted this same non-sense in the past. Since I know it is important for you to be the 'winner'(and I will admit to being the same) I will state 'my bad'. Now, as a point of reference the thread linked below is about the same topic about Detroit. Notice how the commentary/tone is similar: https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/5/177204.html?1235059851 Looks like your little 'quit using a double standard for the burbs' junk doesn't apply as this topic is also being discussed about the city with little defensiveness, just a fair open dialogue. But you win, my bad. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 5779 Registered: 10-2003 |
Now to add my 2 cents: I think that an issue facing much of Michigan, specifically SE Detroit is the lack of an educated workforce. Years of realiance on the auto industry has made SE Michigan a region where generations believe that education/skilled trade/etc is not necessary as their was always a line job. In a recent poll, about 60% of responsents in Michigan stated that education is not necessary for their children to be successful. That has had a major impact on the city but the Big 3 and suppliers have limited the impact of that mentality elsewhere in SE Michigan. As manufacturing jobs disappear and wages decline there will be a large impact to most communities in SE Michigan. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 9451 Registered: 10-2003 |
Compounding the education problem is the fact that educated people are losing jobs as well, so people are having to compete with someone with a Bachelor's in mechanical engineering for a $10 an hour job, making a 2 year degree quickly obsolete in this area, to say nothing of all the folks with no degree whatsoever. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 3700 Registered: 06-2008 |
Jt1: This will be my last response for this exchange. It's up to you to grasp this. My original post was about DY members who find it inappropriate for people to discuss the suburbs on what they feel is a Detroit-only message board (despite the fact that it is really a regional message board). The double standard I was referring to does not pertain to whether it is OK to bash the suburbs but not Detroit (which appears to be your misunderstanding) but rather to whether it is inappropriate to the discuss the suburbs on this board all the time OR only when the suburbs' attributes are being discussed. Nobody is trying "win" here or beat you at anything. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 2249 Registered: 04-2006 |
Shrinking populations will become a huge issue in suburban areas. Most suburbs are built with the business model of new development to help pay at least in part for the infrastructure costs. Without increases in population new development will not occur at the same rate as found in the past. No longer can places like Southfield, Livonia, or Warren count on being the hand me down houses for those trying to escape the City. There are fewer people leaving Detroit to replace those who move elsewhere, and those leaving Detroit proper are generally not sticking around the metro - they are off to greener pastures. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 1108 Registered: 07-2007 |
Back to the discussion, while education is a big issue, another problem is that we don't attract enough people to come here who already possess the knowledge and skills that we want. The Urbanophile has a good discussion on the myth of the "brain drain". We want our kids to grow up and see the world. What successful cities have mastered is the ability to attract people to replace the kids who leave and who create an environment so that when the kids get older, they want to come back with their families or their successful businesses or the knowledge that they've gained outside of our area. As long as we view the employment pool as only including the people who live here now, we're always going to be behind the rest of the world. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 3924 Registered: 01-2005 |
On my last return to metro Detroit, we stayed with a dear friend in New Hudson who has a new home on Milford Road and 12 Mile. She has well water. The well water is full of iron, and everything it touches gets stained rust red. She was kind enough to wash a load of my T-shirts while I was there. All my white T-shirts came out pink. That never happened in Detroit. | ||
Jiminnm Member Username: Jiminnm Post Number: 1723 Registered: 02-2005 |
Same was true of our well in Novi, Ray. That's why we quickly installed an iron filter and a water softener. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 5780 Registered: 10-2003 |
TJ - In response to your final post to me. My bad. I did make the wrong inference of your intent. (not said sarcastically) | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 3701 Registered: 06-2008 |
no biggie |
